A (1:07)

No.

B (1:08)

Well, like in Western music you have concertos, right? Okay, so in Indian music you have the equivalent to that would be Araga instead of a concerto. My last name is Ragunat, which is Indian, but I was born in the Caribbean.

A (1:24)

Oh, interesting.

B (1:25)

Yeah, there's a whole history of why Indians ended up. Indians from India ended up in the Caribbean thanks to the British. So with my name being Raghunath, I shortened it to Raga. Instead of the Christian Samuel, I decided to shorten my surname.

A (1:48)

I see.

B (1:49)

And have that be my name, period.

A (1:52)

Okay.

B (1:53)

So people don't call me Sam anymore for a long time and I'm good with that.

A (2:00)

Let's turn right. Let's go through the park. Sorry?

B (2:02)

Keep going through the park.

A (2:03)

Yeah. Is that okay?

B (2:04)

I'll be a bit quieter and. Yeah.

A (2:12)

Can you tell us a little bit more about you? Like if someone were to ask you, who are you? What would you say?

B (2:17)

Me? I'm a retired high school teacher. I came here in 1970 from Trinidad. Lived in this area since then. My mom moved here in the 60s, saw that as an opportunity to bring all her kids over here, which she did. Had the opportunity to go to school here, got married here, not anymore. Have one daughter and two grandkids. I just had sushi with my daughter and one of my grandkids. So I was on my way home now. Studied journalism, political science. Got my degrees at nyu. When one person like me was able to Get a chance.

A (3:08)

What do you mean by that?

B (3:09)

Well, I think things have changed. Things are changing drastically. And I kind of wonder what is going to be available for people who still live confined, oppressed, repressed, suppressed in this country. The rational behavior in society is becoming less and less so. People are not thinking properly and they're going into a really terrible direction. I still have hope that maybe it's not going to last. I still have hope that enough people would see right from wrong, which they have seen before. And they were pretty much on a path to righting, making right certain wrongs. And someone came by and said, we don't have to do that anymore. And so that's what I mean by what's going to happen to people like me who had a chance and proved that it did work. I mean, I got a scholarship to nyu. I was smart enough. I sat in classes with people who weren't like me and was dumb and, you know, but they didn't have a. They didn't have to worry that they. Whether or not they would get into nyu. So all this bull about we don't need equal opportunity for people anymore. You know, it's all crap. It's just a matter of until you make right what you have made wrong for so long. You can't just stop things that were put into place to kind of alleviate the situation somewhat. Like I said, I've lived here in this area since 1970, and I've seen the changes. And from what I see, it's still quite clear that the people are crying that they're losing opportunity, they're losing their clothes, country, they're losing all this. And that those same people can walk into a community at any point, anywhere in America and trample it and chase the people who've been living there for so long without anybody batting an eye. And that's what has happened here. I see it. It's quite clear to me, you know, these apartments were at one time a lot of families, poor families, working families. And now they. People paying, I don't know, 4,000 for the same apartment, but they can afford it. So people, if you're allowed, if you can pay $4,000 for a tenement apartment, you're not losing anything. That's just a disguise to take things away by saying we're losing, we're losing something, so we need to fight and take it back. And they get caught up in that kind of lie. It's happening, like, all over the country on so many levels. But, you know, what goes around comes around because A lie is a lie, and it can only survive for as long as the people who are being lied to continue to believe it. At some point, they're not going to, because it's going to hit them in the face and it's already happening. So I'm just waiting and watching, just watching.

A (7:01)

So what gives you hope? You said that in the beginning.

B (7:03)

The hope is that I am not alone. My thoughts about what I see, the reality I see is not something that's unique to me. There's a lot. A lot of people in this country who see that and know it may be even better than see it, more clear than I do. And that's my hope. You know, I have a lot of faith in human beings, but at the same time, this is a good lesson to show you how human beings can be so. So lost and so submerged in lies and propaganda. By the ways, this building, the one in the corner here, that's the first building I lived in.

A (8:03)

The brown one?

B (8:03)

Yeah. When I came to New York, it didn't look like that.

A (8:06)

The very first building.

B (8:07)

Wow. Very first. I lived up on the top floor.

A (8:11)

You and your family?

B (8:13)

Yeah. And it was an old tenement. It was a bodega in the bottom. And, yeah, this whole area was different. I. I moved around this neighborhood. Oh, yeah? Yeah.

A (8:26)

You stayed in the same neighborhood?

B (8:28)

Yeah.

A (8:28)

Why is that?

B (8:30)

Very good question. This is a very unique place. I felt. I've always felt comfortable enough here. Doesn't mean that when I go up to Brooklyn, sometimes I don't say to myself, why didn't I move out to Brooklyn? You know, because I see Caribbean neighborhoods where I feel like, you know, I probably feel better here, especially since this has changed so much for me. I'm not excited like I used to be about being here on one level, but on the other hand, it's all I know.

A (9:13)

Right.

B (9:14)

This is what I have known for so many years. But, yeah.

A (9:23)

Yeah. I walked with a gentleman a while ago, and he said that New York is one of the rare places that you could miss while you're in it. Like, you miss it constantly because things change so much right in front of your eyes.

B (9:38)

Oh, yeah, yeah. No, I get that experience daily. Like, I get. My memory gets, like, blown away, and I'm trying to figure out what used to be here. You know, like, storefronts just appear out of nowhere. Like, what the hell? Where did this come from? You know, so it's an assault on your memory in a way. Like, you know, you have to constantly, if you live here for so long. Constantly have to kind of get yourself to understand what it is that was there before and now it's gone. So kind of keep yourself in check, you know what I mean? For new people coming in, it's. They're starting out right there.

A (10:21)

Yeah.

B (10:21)

You know?

A (10:22)

Yeah. That must be so interesting to experience.

B (10:25)

Yeah.

A (10:26)

I'm from San Diego and I've been there most of my life. I don't. I just don't really think things change like that over there. Like everything feels the same.

B (10:37)

And. And you live here now?

A (10:39)

No, I go back and forth.

B (10:40)

Oh, you go back and forth. Right, right. Okay. But where you're living in San Diego, you're not seeing any major changes with your. Within your community?

A (10:52)

Not really. Like, the other day, I was. I went and I took a drive. I went and looked at my elementary school, my middle school, and my high school, and they all look exactly the same. The streets to them, the streets away from them, the old houses I used to live in. You know, there's a sadness to both. I think there's a sadness to what you experience, which is just so much change, always a lot of goodbyes. But there's also a sadness in what cities like San Diego are like because you're constantly reminded of your past. You can't really get away.

B (11:35)

Yeah. I'm not against change. Don't get me wrong. You know, change is change. Change has to happen.

A (11:41)

Yeah.

B (11:43)

But the. The politics that's involved with change is something that I think you need to look at.

A (11:51)

Right.

B (11:52)

Because politics. Politics can go in different directions, and it's not always progressive. There's this idea, like I said before, the same people who are crying that they're losing their country are the same ones that are destroying other people's communities. So this whole gentrification thing, for instance, that's not just a change. People moving in here claiming to be artists and all kinds of stuff, not for them or not, and not even considering that that mass influx is causing a disruption and a destruction to people who have been here for generations and deserve every right to be here and given a chance to improve their community or even move out of the community with some kind of success. But you have to have grounds to kind of grow from. And if you keep throwing people around the place, you're not giving them a chance, really.

A (13:03)

Right. Like the opportunity you were talking about earlier, the one that you got.

B (13:07)

Yes, precisely. That's. Yeah. And I'm sure there, you know, you. You could say that a lot of people living in a place like New York, poor people, people, immigrants who came from, I don't know, wherever. Even if they were living in the slums, you can measure that. There was some, little by little there were successes and success in the American way of what is success. You get a good job or you get, you get an education that affords you the opportunity to get a good job so you can make it out, right? Well, that pipeline should still be there.

A (13:53)

I think it is.

B (13:54)

No, no, it's getting destroyed by gentrification. It's almost like we don't care anymore. We want you out. One good thing about New York City is that if you're a so called minority person, this is almost a kind of like a safe zone, okay? So called safe zone. You move me out of here and I have to go to Florida, right? Because it's cheaper. I go to Florida with my family into an area where we know nothing of. And the people that are there who happen to be poor or poorer than us are not going to be very happy with us showing up. And they're not going to stop from letting us know that. So that's what I mean. There is a safe zone here somewhat where we don't have to worry that somebody is looking to lynch us in the back of the woods somewhere. But we end up getting thrown out of the cities and we end up going into those places, very places where those people will do that. I'm sure they're doing it already. People going missing, all kinds of things. Like look at Harlem. You go through Harlem now, it's like, yes, where have all the black people gone? You know, they're doing the same thing in Brooklyn. They did the same thing here with the Hispanic people. So these people claiming that they're losing their country and losing, they're just gaining. It's an excuse to take. I'm gonna take this because you know what? We're losing and we're real Americans here.

A (15:48)

This might be a hard fight, but is there any solution that you could.

B (15:53)

Put into words, oh, that's a tough one. Well, you know, hey, even amongst the people that have moved here and they see the wrongs about their moving here, are also trapped. And people want to move out of their little small town somewhere where they're not, they're not living life. Come to New York and whoa, what a life, right? And they want the right to live here too and escape that boredom and bull and that racism. But hopefully there are those among those people who will also understand things like gentrification, also understand that they have a duty to fulfill, which is to be on the side of the victims. The people who are being victimized right now by their presence even. And there are those people, trust me. But you also have a lot of rich kids here that don't give a flying. That could care less what you say, have no idea what you're talking about. Like, huh? What are you talking about? And they're getting mixed in with the kids who. And you can't tell the difference, really, who are here and know that what they're experiencing and looking at is not right. You know, it's not right. I don't know. You know, there's a shortage of housing, for instance. People are. Want to get that apartment. And, and the thing that. The thing that makes them get that apartment is the fact that, well, I have. I can afford to pay more money than you.

A (17:51)

Right.

B (17:53)

So therein lies it. The rationale is, I feel bad, but, you know, the rent is 4,000 and Dick, his family can't afford that. And this landlord has the right to make money because he's in real estate. This is his right. Right. This is America. So there's so many ways you can find an escape route to things that are wrong and make them look like it's okay, you know?

A (18:23)

Yeah.

B (18:25)

So my advice is for people not to go in that direction and like, fight for. You know, I don't know, if you go to school and you're. You're studying law, maybe you should think of putting something back in to help people who, Whose apartment one time you took. You know, I. I don't know. I mean, give back something, you know, to. Don't just come here, go to school, and then just go make money on Wall street, for instance. Right. So if you. If we can foresee a group of people that have moved here, we didn't change, but came in a way and eventually helped to make progress. I'm down with that. I think that's cool. That's a great change, isn't it? I can't say that I see that happening soon, but I go into restaurants sometimes and I look around. I'm able to afford to sit and eat a meal here, but I feel up because I look around and I say, I'm the only person. This is the East Village, 2020. I'm the only person that's of this color in this place that doesn't feel good.

A (19:53)

That's crazy.

B (19:55)

That's a reality that I have to contend with. I have to see it. I could ignore it. I could be like the other black guy. That's sitting over there. He doesn't seem to give a flying. But I do. I see it for what it is. And we could go on a walk and go through a couple of restaurants or bars right now, and you'll see what I'm talking about. And that never used to be. It used to be, you walk in a bar, a restaurant, all kinds of people in there. White, black, Chinese, everybody. That, to me, that's New York.

A (20:29)

Yeah.

B (20:30)

And that is. We're losing that. Losing it. Yeah. I mean, I have people living in my building that it takes them months before they don't get nervous if I'm out the door with my keys behind them, even if I'm shaking my keys, like, hey, I got my keys. They get all, like, flabbergasted, and they pretend they're opening, and then they run away. And I'm like. Or I would hold the door expecting just to see what would happen. Hold the door and let a. Thank you. It's almost like, am I supposed to hold this door for you?

A (21:15)

In New York?

B (21:15)

In New York, right here. It's happened to me many times. You see people and just the mere eye contact that I used to be. This especially here, New York, it's like where people look at each other. We're not scared to look at each other. We look at each other so much that some people might say, what, you got an eye problem? What are you looking at? Right. I kind of miss that. Because, you know what? Nobody's looking at anybody anymore. I see. I swear to God, I walk past people. They intentionally look. They're not going to make eye contact. And I'm looking at them in their eyes, but they look. And I do that just to say, my God, isn't this something? Now that fear is that I don't see you. There's all these little things that go on that make you feel like you're invisible. Like, you know the famous Black Riders book, Invisible Man? Almost seems like it still exists. Some of us are still invisible. Like, people would, like, cross my path. Like you. Like, you wouldn't usually do that. And it's almost like, did that person see me? Maybe they didn't. Because, like, if you're crossing here, right, And I want to go up this street, right. I would wait for you to keep walking, and then I'll go like this, right? No, they come right in front of you. Like, boom. Wow. Like, oh, wow. Okay.

A (23:01)

And it didn't used to be like that.

B (23:03)

No, no, no, no, no. I mean, there's always, like, People.

A (23:07)

Yeah.

B (23:08)

Doing forever. Right. But people know when they'll say my bad.

A (23:17)

They don't say that.

B (23:17)

There's no my bad with this bunch. They don't seem to care or they don't seem to know or they don't seem to see. I don't know if this is some kind of a. It's what they're not used to. This is not how they grew up. This is not where they grew up. I don't know. Maybe there are parts of America where people are here that never saw black person where they live. I don't know. I've heard that. Or even if they did, it was probably the one black family down the road. So with the politics that's going on now, that makes me wonder even more about my reality, like, what the is going on. So I don't mean to be so pessimistic and dark, but I think we do have to. We do have to go there sometimes to try to get into the light, try to figure out a way to make things right. Because you can't ignore what's wrong. You can't turn a blind eye. You can't say, I don't want to hear about it. That ain't gonna help.

A (24:36)

So I don't think you're being pessimistic at all. I think you're just being. Being honest.

B (24:40)

Yeah. Thank you. And you said you wanted to take a stroll and talk. I said, well, we'll do that. I hope she can take what I'm saying. I'm just going to let it all out, you know, I mean.

A (24:55)

Yeah, I. I feel lucky that I get to walk with you today.

B (24:59)

Well, thank you so much. I feel good that I. Well, it was good for me too. I got a lot of off my chest.

A (25:08)

That's what it's all about. I think the best way you can make impact is to heal real stories. I could have sat here and told people, these are the things that are happening. We should make some changes. And never had experienced any of it. And people would. It wouldn't resonate. But having you do it, you've been here, you've loved all of that. You know, it just hits different.

B (25:29)

Yeah.

A (25:31)

Makes people think. Even people who might not agree with you.

B (25:33)

Yeah.

A (25:34)

It's like, how do they disagree with truth? Like you've literally been through it.

B (25:37)

Right, right, right. Well, you know, that's the thing, is that it's. I rather talk to someone who's at least gonna listen. I don't expect you to agree with everything I say because I Don't even know if I agree with everything I say. You know, it just. This is what my mind tells me is going on. This is what I'm feeling at the moment. But there are times where I will question what I just thought or said to somebody. Right. I think that's important, and that is important. Right. And I agree with you. The more that people can take strolls and talk about things, you know, that certainly helps. I don't. I didn't hear what your opinion is or what you have to say about the things I've said, but I can kind of feel that you allowed me to say the things I needed to say. And you're able to listen to it, and I'm sure that it's gonna resonate. Some things will resonate with you that you can share with somebody else. Right. That, you know, that's how it goes. But I'm gonna go.

A (26:50)

Okay. I always like to end it by having the person I walk with leave my audience with one last message. You have one last message for my audience.

B (26:58)

Yeah. I want to say this too shall pass, but it's been said before, and I think it was said before. Before, when things were pretty serious. And fears. Certain fears and certain realities that took place after that are the things that people are thinking of now, whether they're rational or irrational or, you know, exaggerated, whatever. But I think we can't afford to minimize things anymore. Lives matter. Everybody's lives matter. But some people. Lives really matter in a different way. Pleasure.

A (27:43)

Thank you so much. All right, let me grab the mic, too.

B (27:46)

You can also check out my music.

A (27:48)

I would love to Spotify. How do I find you?

B (27:51)

It's on the. Tell them raga.

A (27:54)

Tell them Raga.

B (27:57)

R A G.

A (28:01)

I'm definitely gonna check it out.

B (28:02)

All right, Give me a feedback. Okay.

A (28:04)

Thank you so much. Have a good day. It was my pleasure. Have a good one. That's my cousin, by the way.

B (28:09)

Yeah.

A (28:19)

Bye.