Canadian True Crime – Episode Summary
Podcast: Canadian True Crime
Host: Kristi Lee
Episode: Alfred and Rosemary Podgis [2]
Date: March 4, 2025
Overview
This episode concludes the two-part series on the shocking 1982 murders of Alfred and Rosemary Podgis in New Jersey. Centered on shy Canadian teenager David Curtis and his school friend Scott Franz, Kristi Lee unpacks the chaotic investigation, contentious trial, and the profound personal and legal fallout for both young men and their families. With meticulous research and a trauma-informed approach, the episode explores issues of juvenile vulnerability, cross-border justice, and the weight the media and plea bargains can have on a criminal case.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Setting the Scene: Aftermath of the Murders
- Recap: David Curtis arrives in New Jersey, only to find his friend Scott Franz’s stories of wealth and safety were lies—home life was abusive and dangerous ([01:35]).
- Murders: Scott claims to have shot his stepfather, Alfred, in self-defense. David, in a state of panic, shoots Rosemary Podgis, Scott's mother.
- Disposal and Arrest: Both teens clean up the crime scene, dump the bodies, and flee, but are soon caught in Texas.
Contradictory Statements and Early Legal Maneuvers
- Scott’s First Statement: Frames his actions as self-defense and David’s shooting as accidental.
- David’s First Statement (to lawyer Michael Shotland): Paints a picture of shock and confusion; insists the shooting was unintentional ([03:20]).
“It was like my emotions were dictating me. … It was just a blur. My whole head is ringing like you become a big black cloud.” — David Curtis’s account to his lawyer ([03:40])
- Evidence: Autopsy suggests Rosemary's shooting wasn't clearly intentional; trajectory is odd for a deliberate shot.
Psychological Assessment and Character Investigations
- Psychology Report: Supports accidental shooting, notes David’s adjustment disorder and susceptibility to influence.
- School Reputation: Investigators probe the teens’ time at King’s Edgehill School—Scott is known as a liar; David as eccentric and detached ([10:00]).
The Prosecution's Focus on Motive and Intent
- Diary Evidence: Police are unnerved by David’s dark, poetic diary entries, interpreting them as signs of a disturbed mind and evidence of intent ([08:00]).
"I am mad, insane. As I always wanted to be. … I want power. That way I achieve mortality." — From David Curtis's diary ([09:00])
- King's Edgehill "Crimes": Incidents of suspected poisoning at school are cast as a prelude to murder, despite lack of charges.
Plea Deal Dynamics and Pretrial Shifts
- Scott Franz’s Plea: Scott turns state’s witness, testifying against David for a lighter sentence ([20:52]).
- Prosecutorial Theory: Now David becomes the alleged mastermind, with Scott painting himself as just a follower—a total reversal.
The Trial and Its Twists
- A Difficult Judge: Case is assigned to Judge John P. Arnone, known for harsh sentencing.
- Dueling Narratives: Defense depicts David as a naive, traumatized outsider; prosecution as a calculating, vengeful killer ([29:30]).
- Star Witness – Scott Franz:
- Claims David orchestrated the killings and the cleanup, starkly contradicting his earlier statements ([35:00]).
- Portrays David as relishing the chaos.
- Under cross, forced to admit he originally said David shot Rosemary by accident:
“I believe so.” — Scott Franz, confronted about his first statement ([40:24])
Expert Forensics and Courtroom Drama
- Ballistics: Demonstration of the rifle in court reveals it can discharge accidentally, bolstering the defense ([42:15]).
- Autopsy Testimony: Conflicting expert opinions on whether Rosemary’s wound was accidental or deliberate.
- Diary Voir Dire:
- Prosecution attempts to admit David’s diary entries as evidence, but judge bars the jury from considering them ([48:20]).
- Still, damning headlines about the diaries are reported in the press, which the jury might see.
Verdict and Sentencing
- Jury Deliberation: Jury queries the nuanced difference between aggravated and reckless manslaughter—indicating uncertainty about intent ([53:00]).
- Verdict: David Curtis is acquitted of first-degree murder but found guilty of aggravated manslaughter—the more serious of two manslaughter options ([56:22]).
- Sentencing:
- David receives the maximum (20 years, parole after 10); Scott, who pleaded to first-degree murder, gets the minimum (same term but in a youth facility) ([57:30]).
Aftermath, Appeals, and Public Outcry
- Media and Consular Support: Canadian officials offer little help; Canadian media and public become increasingly sympathetic to David ([59:40]).
- Failed Appeals: All appeals, including to New Jersey Supreme Court, are denied.
- Prison Transfer & Parole: After years of campaigning and a change in policy, David is transferred back to Canada in 1988 and paroled after nearly 7 years.
- Scott Franz’s Fate: Completes his sentence but later escapes from a halfway house, then dies young under mysterious circumstances ([69:00]).
- David’s Life After: Earns a degree in physics, fades from the spotlight, choosing privacy ([73:00]).
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
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David’s Emotional State
“It was just a blur. My whole head is ringing like you become a big black cloud.” — David Curtis to lawyer ([03:40])
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Police View on the Diary
“The police and the county prosecutors saw this particular entry as pure darkness. The psychopathic ramblings of a clearly disturbed mind.” ([09:30])
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Forensic Courtroom Mishap
“When the lever was moved during the demonstration, the gun accidentally fired in the courtroom. ... The misfire was entered as evidence of an accidental firing.” ([42:15])
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Scott on Accidentality
“I believe so.” — Scott Franz, admitting under cross-examination that David’s shooting appeared accidental ([40:24])
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Media Fallout
“Diary Tells of Accused Slayer Thinking of Killing His Own parents.” — Asbury Park Press headline ([51:20])
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David from Prison
“I made the biggest mistake of my life. I got in over my head in that weird, violent house. And when it got as bad as it did, I should have come home immediately.” — David Curtis ([62:30])
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Reflections on Prison/Forgiveness
“I’m going to eventually get out of jail, but Mrs. Podgess is dead. What happened to her is much more horrible than what has happened and can happen to me.” — David Curtis ([66:00])
Key Timestamps
- 01:35 – Recap of part one and David Curtis’s initial statement to his lawyer
- 09:00 – Police scrutinize David’s dark diary entries
- 20:52 – Scott Franz agrees to plea deal and turns on David
- 29:30 – Opening statements at David’s trial
- 35:00 – Scott testifies against David, shifts blame to him
- 42:15 – Ballistics expert’s courtroom demonstration supports accidental firing
- 48:20 – Voir dire over admissibility of David’s diary; media headlines follow
- 53:00 – Jury questions about manslaughter definitions
- 56:22 – Verdict: guilty of aggravated manslaughter; sentencing for both teens
- 62:30 – Canadian public rally for David; his words from prison
- 66:00 – David’s 1988 prison interview about guilt and responsibility
- 69:00 – Scott’s prison escape and death
- 73:00 – David’s life after release and retreat from public eye
Tone and Style
Kristi Lee’s narration is measured and empathetic, with careful attention to both the factual record and the emotional realities for all those involved. She maintains a trauma-informed approach, explores systemic flaws in both the Canadian and U.S. systems, and gives voice to the victims and families without resorting to sensationalism.
Final Thoughts
This episode offers a nuanced case study of a cross-border crime, the quirks and cruelties of legal systems, and the lasting effects of a single catastrophic decision. The storytelling foregrounds the ambiguities of intent and the struggles of young people under extreme pressure, while critiquing both media spectacle and legal proceduralism.
For more resources, references, and updates, as well as archival news clippings relating to the case, listeners are encouraged to visit the Canadian True Crime website or social media channels.