Uncle (3:16)

Yeah.

Natasha (3:16)

And you were clear about it. I think a lot of people would just make me feel like I was just gonna be left for dead because of these things that I could. Had a lot of trouble working through. So. Yeah, like, that's. That's where the conversation went in my head. Yeah.

Uncle (3:34)

I mean, I think I get where you're coming from. Of thinking in reading as a young child, like, I was the same. I grew up in a Greek household. So like, philosophy is centered in a lot of our conversations and just like value system. It's not really. We weren't religious. It was more of just like there was a philosophy of life and a philosophy of morals and values and all these things. And I think for different reasons, entirely different reasons, I grew up also thinking I'm just inherently flawed. And I think I still still feel that way. Like, I definitely just have always. My view of the world has always been like, I didn't get something that everybody else has. Like, there's something that everyone else knows that I don't know. And like, I'm functioning differently, which like, feels true a lot of the time, but I think maybe I'm just like autistic, which, like, I don't know if you can say now, but like diagnosed

Chris (4:24)

once you can't like, announce your dream.

Uncle (4:27)

Yeah, but like, you're dying. I just think like, that for a long time was just like, what the. Like, does somebody, all these people, like living these high functioning lives know something that I don't know or like, like having to like, practice a lot of things that other people just seemed. It seems so easy for them. Right. I can relate to you on that. And I think what. To what you were saying is like, when you watch this person's podcast or you listen to this person's podcast, it like brings you back to a. A worse version of yourself.

Natasha (4:55)

Yeah.

Uncle (4:55)

And I think that that's true for a lot of people, especially people that have worked on themselves and taken self growth seriously and changing themselves for the better. So I think that there's like, definitely a pattern people can fall into. And it's like, even if you are doing that growth, there's things that can pull you back and there's things that can. There's people that can Pull you back. There's, like, energy that you're around that could just kind of negate everything that you've worked on and changed about yourself for the better. And it's really important to know what those are, who those people are, so that you can move away from it and just focus on being your best self. And something that I've been kind of reading a lot, it's like a healed person isn't, like, a person in isolation. So it's like you can just, you know, you can purport that you've healed yourself or you're better, but if you're just isolated and by yourself and you're not exposing yourself to your triggers in the world and these things that could pull you back. Are you really healed? Have you really changed? And the answer to that would be no.

Natasha (5:59)

Yeah. And it wasn't until we had this text exchange where Chris asked me if I listened to this person's show that I realized I knew my dad was a bad dude. But all of the artists and people that I looked up to and consumed their work and liked them were all street dudes like my dad. They were all, in many ways, perpetuating the things that my dad would say and teach me in the home. And living with that dude who did the things he did to my mom, I really didn't approve of him. I really didn't like him. But because he is my father, I. I think I yearned to, like, have some connection to him. And I started to, like. I just became a fan of, like, artists, characters and books and films that were like my dad. I was definitely the dude that cheered for the bad guy in the movie because the guy reminded me of my dad.

Uncle (7:07)

Yeah.

Natasha (7:09)

All of this stuff was, like, converging. Like, Chris got me thinking about. It felt like an episode of Sex and the City, you know, like, on Sex and the City. Carrie. Yeah. I'm just a computer. Yeah. And I'm thinking about it, and there was a point where I was like, you know, maybe. Maybe I'm taking it too seriously. Maybe, like, I don't need to have these walls up with some of the culture and work that I used to consume on a daily basis. Maybe I'm. Maybe I'm too hard on some of the artists. I used to be a fan. Well, I'm still a fan of them. I just don't consume it anymore. Maybe I'm too hard on my parents. Like, they haven't seen Senna in a year. And I. I have an immense amount of guilt because, like, Senna deserves to have grandparents totally.

Chris (7:54)

But he also deserves to have grandparents like people that are not going to give him the same complex that you have now.

Natasha (8:02)

Yeah, yeah. And I really felt like on some Carrie Bradshaw shit, like this idea and this question just kept percolating in my head. I know what I've done the last year. I don't talk to my parents. By not talking to my parents, I've also stopped listening and consuming a lot of music and shows that I used to.

Uncle (8:21)

You also stopped smoking weed.

Natasha (8:23)

I stopped smoking weed. And that was big because I didn't realize it, but the smoking weed was really like hurting myself. I was dumbing myself down because I did not want to think about shit. And when I smoke weed, I just dumb out. I zone out and just start eating. And you know me, I love watching the Sopranos. Like, I've. I frequently just watch the Sopranos going to bed. I hadn't watched the Sopranos in probably two years.

Uncle (8:49)

Yeah.

Natasha (8:50)

And I went back and I watched the Cold Cuts episode with, like, where Janice beats up the soccer mom and then goes to anger management and gets better. But Tony is, like, kind of jealous because he can't work through his anger with Dr. Melfi and she's telling him he's a sociopath. And when Janice starts to get better, he drags her down. And I was like, that is my favorite episode of the Sopranos. And through the week, I was just like, yo, I want to call my dad. I sent my dad a photo on Tuesday because I watched the Orlando Magic playoff game with my. With Senna. I sent it to him and my dad responded like, wow, long hair, great looking kid. I was like, cool. And I was going to send him another photo. And then Wednesday night around 11 o', clock, I get a random call from a family member who's like, yo, if you talk to dad since yesterday. And I was like, I mean, I don't talk to him on the phi. Just text him photos of Senna every once in a while. What's up? And they're like, yo, everyone in the family's been trying to get a hold of you because your dad is in jail for felony assault. And immediately I was just like, he hit Mom. And this family member was like, yeah, he hit mom. But it's cool. It's cool. Like, he's out. Everyone's having a laugh about it. I think it was a good thing. I think it was good he finally went to jail. It's good your mom finally called the police. But, like, your dad's good. He had fun in there. He had a good time. He came back, he's, like, in a good mood. And I was like, yo, this entire family, we always, like, worry about how this guy's doing and how he feels and, like, oh, is he all right? I'm like, bro, he hit my mom in the head. He hit her in the neck. I'm like, my mom is 62 years old, and my dad is not just, like, a regular dude. Like, he is the first dude in his neighborhood to stab somebody. He stabbed somebody at the age of 12. Like, my dad is a nasty motherfucker. And like, everyone was just like, your dad's good. I'm like, my dad's good.

Uncle (10:58)

Yeah.

Natasha (10:58)

The fuck are we?

Uncle (10:59)

What about your mom? You know?

Natasha (11:01)

Yeah. And when I got mad, this family member was like, yo, yo, yo, yo. Yeah, we know you, like, have trouble with this, but, like, everything's fine. Like, don't make this worse. And I was just like, you know what? I've always been made the villain in this family because I would stand up and say this shit was wrong. And I've been wanting to call the cops forever, and no one would let me. And I was just like, I've had a really difficult but probably the most growth in one year of my life because I stopped talking to you people. I stopped listening, because you all have different values than I have. And I won't include Emery in that because Emory is the only person who physically stepped up to my dad. And, like, I admire Emery for that. I could never do it. I could never hit my own dad. But instead, like, I took it out on myself and other people in my life, you know? Like, I just don't got it for this anymore. Like, this is wrong.

Uncle (12:12)

Yeah. I think to be the person in a family system to point out flaws and point out things that aren't working or aren't healthy. I mean, a psychologist would probably call it the scapegoat or the black sheep of the family. Like, that person is always going to get ostracized, and that person is always going to get a shitty experience because no one else wants to deal with it. Like, you don't get the credit, as you were saying, but you get villainized as. I mean, there's so many different narratives that, like, a family system could go, right? It's like, oh, you're too good for us. Oh, you think you're smarter than us? You know, better than us? Or you just don't get it. You're. You don't love us. You're not one of us, you're different. You don't care about our culture, you don't care about these things. Like you separate yourself. Whatever the narrative is, it's always this person is othered. You're not one of us. While simultaneously making you feel bad about wanting better for yourself. And there's something to be said about you through all of this. Taking space to just be like, I need to get solid before I can invite my family back into my life. But time and time again it just. You're met with so much conflict. Even when you're not a part of it, even when you're not there, you're being dragged into something that is emotionally, mentally taxing for you. And then whether you like it or not, hearing that that's going to affect your week, your month, your year, like that's not something light. And I think that maybe it's common within your family. And I hate to say that, but that's just something that has happened and become normalized. But like, if I were to receive that call that somebody hit my mom, like that's derailing, that's derailing my, my life. Like that's unstabilizing. Like that is scary beyond belief. Just like that's emotionally wrecking to somebody. Like it doesn't matter if you're in your 40s and you're an adult and you have your own family in your own life. Like these are your parents. This isn't a laughing matter. And to just be like so blase with this information of like, oh, it ahaha. It happened again. Like, I understand where you're coming from. Like that is like true, like truly devastating news to get.

Natasha (14:29)

Yeah. And you pointed this out for me, you helped me learn this is that like, I think there would be a lot of bad, depraved things happening around me, whether it was my homies, my family, or just like stuff that I'd encounter and I'd be like, you know, I seen worse. And you're like, bro, that's not an answer. Yeah, like this, this is not okay stuff to have around in our lives. Like, I remember people will call collect from jail all the time for me or my dad's friends or whatever. And it was because I lived in a family and grew up in a family where like very depraved behavior was written off as funny. Yeah, it was always funny. And I think that's why so much of my work has been funny. Like haha. Funny. Haha. Yeah, yeah, I, yeah, I threw a couch out of a window at spring break. Like, bro, I was a really sad kid just hurting myself.

Uncle (15:22)

What I've been reading just like. Which is funny because people will always tell us, oh, you guys, you're so funny. Both of you are so funny. Ha. Just reading about developmental things with children, psychology, everything. And it's like the funniest kids have the saddest parents because they're just like overcompensating for growing up in a sad environment. So it's like, I will be funny. Like I will make you laugh. Like we need to like, make the energy higher. We need to be funny and like, have a lighter time. And I like, yeah, for sure. I think that, that we're both a result of that. That's why sometimes when Senna's being funny, I'm like, shut it down. Don't be funny. Yeah, I mean, I'm like, I'm not sad. I'll out funny you.

Natasha (16:05)

I mean, he's. Yeah, he's funny in a good way. But I definitely. My family created this pattern of like when really bad, depraved things happen. Instead of sitting down and everybody talking about it and examining it. Yeah. And working on our behavior, it just was like, haha. Yo, that's hilarious, man. Yeah, that's hilarious. Yeah. Yeah, man. Oh, how funny was it when the cops came and did that thing? Like, ahahaha.

Uncle (16:28)

Yeah.

Natasha (16:28)

And my whole life it's just been a joke and now that I'm a dad and a husband, I just refuse to not be the best version of myself.

Uncle (16:40)

Yeah. I think that's just truly also the thing that's on the forefront of my mind all the time. I mean, for different reasons that just growing up, like, my mom was great, always held it down, always had a very stable, loving home and environment with my mom, but just other things around me. Like I just. The most important thing to me is that like our home and our relationship internally with me, you and Sena is just loving and kind and patient and stable and sturdy and good and like, shit happens and it can't be 100% all the time. And like what? Like whatever. But it's just like, whatever. We can control that. We're doing the best we can for him because he deserves it.

Natasha (17:26)

Yeah. And I just wanted to do this episode and talk about this today one because I'm incapable of talking about shit when something like this is on my mind.

Uncle (17:34)

Yeah.

Natasha (17:35)

You know me, like, I just like cannot function if I don't get it out.

Uncle (17:38)

Yeah. Like we're not going to be Talking about, like, the news. We're not going to be like. So the Summer House reunion is being filmed this week and the audio leaked.

Chris (17:45)

Yeah.

Natasha (17:46)

Is the dance floor dead? It's. It's just like, it's impossible. Like, I don't know how to do that.

Uncle (17:52)

No, for sure.

Natasha (17:53)

I became a writer because it was the only place I could, like, work shit out. And this morning I even felt guilt. Like, writing. I'm like, is this fucked up to like, write my diary on sub sag? Is it fucked up to talk? But I was like, I just need. I just need to do this.

Uncle (18:08)

Can I ask you a question? Just to take it back to, like, when you were saying, you know, you were young and seeing your dad do certain things and reading about the essential self. Like, do you think that even the worst people are all bad?

Natasha (18:25)

No. No.

Uncle (18:28)

Like there's. There's glimpses of a good. Because I. Even just for your dad, for example, like, I've never seen that side of your dad. So I don't have an experience with that guy. I've always just seen, like, a very charming, very happy, very fun guy to be around. Like, very loving. I've had great conversations with your dad. I've had great moments with your dad. If anything, I've only ever felt very loved and embraced by him, which is very conflicting with this other part of him. So I.

Chris (18:56)

That's what makes it so hard. Because you can't just write them off completely. Not even just because they're your dad or their mom or whatever. Like, you can't. If they were all bad, you could just write them out and try. Write them off and try to exile them from your life, at least however you could. But it's so complicated.

Uncle (19:11)

It's like a bad breakup, right? Like, if you get cheated on, you can just dead it. It's just, you're out. I don't fuck you. The good parts are done. I don't care. It's over. But it's like when something ends amicably, this. This version of somebody still exists in your mind. And that's the thing. It's so fractured because it's like this person who is so kind and loving and been there and actually really supported us in the past year, out of everybody is now the same guy doing this thing.

Natasha (19:37)

Yeah, I love my father. Like, I can't front. I love him. And like, I have been chasing that connection and relationship my entire life. Like, I know my mother loves me, but like, my mother loves me and is proud of me, but I Just have come to terms with the fact that I'm just not the kid my mom wanted. We don't have any hobbies in common besides cooking. We don't have anything we can really talk about besides our family and cooking. And my mom has really never made an effort to be into what I'm into. But like my dad, we have a lot of things in common. We like the same movies, we have very similar tastes. We have really similar approaches to life. And, like.

Chris (20:21)

And doesn't that scare the out of you?

Natasha (20:23)

It does. It fucking scares the shit out of me. And I'll tell you, funny, the one thing that helped me come to terms with it is Harry Potter. And people will laugh, but it's because Harry has the mark from Voldemort. And Harry, even in the first one with the Sorting Hat, is like, am I going to be in Slytherin or Gryffindor? And that is a question of the essential self. Like, the work of art that most closely resembled what I was trying to figure out is literally Harry Potter and the Sorting Hat.

Uncle (20:56)

God, I fucking love Harry Potter. Yeah.

Natasha (20:58)

And Dumbledore basically teaches him that you have a choice. Yeah, you have a choice to be good. You can be a Gryffindor. Like, you're not predetermined to be a Slytherin. And like, Dumbledore in that moment is contradicting the power of the Sorting Hat and the idea of the essential self within Harry Potter. And, like, I think it is magnificent. It's incredible work of art that I hope people study. It is an epic tale because that episode of Harry Potter is literally the conflicting ideas of an essential self and the independent choice of man.

Uncle (21:36)

No, but I really do think you always have a choice. You know, like, you could see me and think, wow, I've never been through anything because I choose actively not to be a depressed loser. Like, you can shoot, like, the shit that you go through in your life can take you the fuck down, or you can just make a choice and say, I'm not gonna let my circumstances or the things that have happened in my life turn me into this type of person. I'm gonna choose to be who I feel aligned with. Whether it's organic to you, whether it's just the person that you were born. You can embrace any energy you want. Like, you. You could be born into a family where, like, for instance, there was no ambition put in me. Like, it was just, like, cool. Like, you're good enough to be. You know, doesn't matter what you do in this Life. And then you can choose to be ambitious. You can make a choice to be academic. You can make a choice to be whatever the fuck you want to be in life. Like, I just think it really is a choice. And if you want something, you can just change your life and go for it at any point. It doesn't have to be young. You could be in your 40s and 50s and change your life and be like, I've been this person all along. I can change today and not be that person anymore.

Natasha (22:43)

Yeah. And I. I just want people who listen to our pod and read our shit just to know, like, it feels very alone when the closest people around you seem to be telling you what you're seeing is not what you're seeing. What you're feeling is not correct. You should laugh. Why are you taking this so serious? Why are you trying to be a better. What? What? No, no one needs to work on shit. We're fine. Everybody's fine. Just keep it the way it is. That is really a difficult environment to be in. It makes you feel very lonely. And I just. I just hope people know, like, trust how you fucking feel, because how you fucking feel is most likely accurate.

Uncle (23:23)

Yeah.

Chris (23:24)

Like, I just can't understand it on the other side of things, like, people like you guys, people like myself that have the urge to do better, be better, all those things. I don't understand the other side of that where it's just like, yeah, just joke off. Like, I understand the urge to make shit funny. It's a learned thing. But I'm saying, I don't know how you. It seems. It seems much worse. As bad as it is to be on the receiving end of that, it seems like a much more painful life to be on the side of it, where you're just stuck in your ways and are making excuses.

Uncle (23:58)

I think to change, you have to admit that something is bad or broken or wrong, and to admit that you can't go back. And you have to make that definitive choice. And if you say, no, I don't like this. This is bad, this is wrong, you have to keep moving forward, because then if you go back, it's almost worse after you've admitted it. So I think the denial is safe and it's a mechanism to, like, protect yourself. Because if you can laugh it off and if it's not, I mean, if you haven't admitted it's bad and to you it's fine and it's funny, then there's no pressure to change and there's

Natasha (24:34)

no you're rejecting your feeling. Yes.

Uncle (24:37)

And it's hard to do that. It's hard to take step forward, and it's hard to change. And you think you, especially the older you get, you get stuck in your ways. And change is scary. Like, when you're young, change is fine. But when you're older, like, even moving to a different neighborhood is fucking scary. So it's like, I get the denial of feelings because it's like, well, then now I have to do something about it. And if I decide to do something about it, and then it gets too hard, and then I want to run back to what's safe. I can't. And I can understand how that could be scary for some.

Natasha (25:08)

Yeah. And like, as we've seen in this episode, I will rewatch an episode or a show or movie or book over and over and over because it's like the person I need to talk to for this particular problem. And in Cold Cuts, Tony's issue when he sees Janice getting better and actually dealing with her shit and trying to be a better person is that it makes him realize and feel guilty that he is not doing the same thing.

Uncle (25:37)

Yeah.

Natasha (25:37)

And he knows he. He owes it to the people around him to get better and change and deal with his shit. But it's easier for him to just drag Janis down and tell himself, see, no one really gets better. Janice doesn't get better. Tony doesn't have to get better.

Uncle (25:55)

Yeah. And that's why in a family structure where one person is pointing out that there's an issue, that person will be ostracized because it's, how dare you try to change what we have going on. This works. We don't want to do what you're doing. And that's why I think sometimes, like, you'll receive an email that's like, what you're doing is whack. It's just like, let's poke and get a bad reaction out of him or cause him to have some type of reaction to this that ricochets into his life or into his family. And I think that's what had been happening in our relationship for a while, too, was like, you would have a bad experience, and then it would bleed into us, and then it would bleed into work and, like, naturally.

Natasha (26:37)

So, you know, I mean, when I got back in the kitchen, my mom literally sent me an email, being, I don't know why you're doing this. You're not good at it. And luckily, I was able to tell myself, actually, I am good at it.

Uncle (26:49)

Yeah.

Natasha (26:49)

I'VE owned a restaurant for 10 years that I opened when I was 27, and it made money from the day it was open. And not that money is the ultimate determinant, especially because Bauhaus was culturally impactful way beyond money. But just like, that was one thing. I was like, I know I'm good at this. Yeah, I can't. Like, that's why food to me is cool, because I can taste it and just be like, nah, this tastes pretty good. Yeah, you can't really take this one away from me.

Uncle (27:20)

Yeah, I eat your food every day.

Natasha (27:23)

This is good.

Uncle (27:24)

It's good. I think that that email also coincided. Like, it was like the same time as an article had come out from, like, one of the bigger publications. I was like, this is really good. Like, this is amazing. Giving you your flowers. And I mean, that's the sentiment exactly. It's like people will drag you down to their level. That's why you have to be very careful and intentional, especially when you're trying to do new things. Especially when you're, like, taking steps to better yourself of who you have around you and what their intentions are for you. Because if it's not just like a hundred percent support and happiness, take a look at that and see how it's impacting your life, and you might not even know or realize that it's not positive.

Natasha (28:05)

Yeah.

Chris (28:05)

I think those. Those pokes are jealousy, though.

Uncle (28:08)

Absolutely.

Chris (28:09)

Not even about whatever the thing is that they're poking at, like the achievement with the restaurant, for example. It's the whole lifestyle. Yeah. I think they. I don't think denial is total and a complete block. Like, I think they get peeks into it and it's almost like trying to cover up the hole. Like, I don't want to see that shit. So I'm gonna deem it to be a failure.

Uncle (28:31)

Totally.

Chris (28:31)

So that I don't have to see

Natasha (28:32)

it even, you know. Yeah. Actually, no, I can't talk about it because it's not my life, it's somebody else's. But, like, I would just say this. I know this is like a more serious episode, but I actually think this is. These are the types of episodes everybody enjoys.

Uncle (28:48)

Yeah.

Chris (28:49)

And it helps people. Like, that's. To your point about the sub stack thing, should you write it or not? Like, that's why you have to do it. It's not because it's gonna fucking get a bunch more views or people are gonna subscribe to. It has nothing to do with that shit. It helps people, man. Like, it takes a lifetime you said it yourself. It took you to your late 30s to get to the point where you're actually facing this shit and having the tools to make the change, to improve your life. It takes a lifetime for people to do that. Some people just never do it. Yeah.

Natasha (29:17)

Yeah. And I think, you know, I hope people appreciate this and use it. I just know that everyone I spoke to this week was fucking going through it.

Uncle (29:29)

Yeah.

Natasha (29:30)

Like, there was something in the air this week.

Uncle (29:33)

Oh, man.

Natasha (29:33)

Astrology or what? But everyone was going through it. So I just want to say, take care of yourself. Trust yourself. Don't listen to everyone telling you, like, this isn't a thing or whatever. Like, if you feel it's a thing, it's a thing.

Chris (29:46)

Amen.

Uncle (29:47)

Hug your Aries friends. That's what I will say. Aries are going through it.

Natasha (29:52)

Definitely. Thank you, everybody.

Chris (29:56)

Thank you.

Natasha (29:59)

I think that was a really good episode. That might be one of the best episodes.

Uncle (30:03)

We've done really great.

Natasha (30:06)

Love you.

Uncle (30:07)

Love you.