B (3:42)

So I got into this subject because I'm interested in press portraits, and that means I specialize in unauthorized press portraits. The sort of things that people might not want somebody to say about them, but I do so with a conscience, and I do so as accurately as possible.

A (3:58)

And so they sort of dropped this biography, Brigitte Macron, Emilio Macron. There's this unofficial biography that gets dropped about them. And what is the first thing that strikes you as peculiar?

B (4:17)

There was an over mediatization. The mainstream media decided to very strongly attack the other candidates during the 2017 presidential election, particularly Penelope Fillon, and sort of hail and hail and law at everything surrounding Emmanuel Macron and Brigitte. They were essentially attacking the far right, everyone apart from them. So they tried to paint this picture of Macron as being a sort of Mozart esque figure, that he was very virtuous and precarious. They began forming a narrative that he had met this woman when he was 17 years old. So this sort of. This man of great precarious nature, a conqueror, a virtuoso who no one could resist, essentially just as Mozart was. So the first lie was regarding age. A journalist had compiled a combination of the amount of times it was noted that they initially spun a narrative of him being 17 years old and her being 36. And so it was sort of this brave man, you know, going after the woman he loved at a young age because he. He was just a daring young chap, so to say, whereas in fact he was 14 at the time, and she was 39. Which turns it from a brave story into a story of pedophilia and the abuse of a minor when their real age was brought to light. There were many mechanisms of communication in the play from the couple. They really played on the way the story was brought to the public. It was sort of like Robert De Niro in Dustin Hoffman's movie Wag the Dog, where they used a spin doctor who brought certain messages to the public to distract them from the actual true scandal at hand. But there was a narrative spun of the difference in age being an issue between a man being younger and a woman being of an older age, whereas the difference of age was exactly the same between, for example, Donald Trump and Melania. Yet no one batted an eye there. However, the issue is not so much the difference in age, and people sort of jumped on the bandwagon here and said, well, why it's so unfair how a man with a more advanced age being with a younger woman is not an issue, but the reverse is quite scandalous. But that is not the issue here. It's an issue of the age of Macron at the time when he was 14. So this is clearly the abuse of a minor, rather than just having a salacious story of a difference between the age of a man and a woman.

A (6:45)

So essentially what you're saying is the media tried to do the modern feminist spin on this. Somebody got involved and said, well, take the feminist angle, the sexist angle, the misogynist angle, the ageist angle, and say, you only notice this because it's an older woman. And why is that a problematic. If it's okay for Donald Trump to be dating Melania, it's actually a very smart way to try to spin it. But you're going, no, no, no, no. This is not about the age gap between because it's a man or a woman. Emmanuel Macron was just 14 years old and she was 39.

B (7:19)

Actually, Brigitte Macron was on the front page of the Economist. And there was this constant push on the left to guilt people that the idea of patriarchal society is not right. They tried to portray Brigitte Macron as this Barbie doll or pinup to the public. I believe a firm noted that in 2018, there was more content on Brigitte Macron on the Internet than there was on David Beckham, who's obviously far more renowned. And the Internet became saturated with these curated pictures and often doctored pictures to make her seem appealing in a pinup and focusing on her, etc. Rather than what was really going on. Insiders in power knew, but the media didn't focus on her increasing level of political importance, which was far greater than most First Ladies had in the past. They saw there were no pictures of her, no pictures of her as a child or as a mother. They saw there was no real background on her. And initially it was well meaning for journalists. They just wanted to build upon this narrative which had been created around her. She's this feminist icon, she's big in politics. Let's tell her story. But they failed every time. They always faced a brick wall in the end. And I would just like to give you two quotes from journalists who are not some conspiracy people. They're real journalists. The first is a woman named Virginie Lenhart. She's Ashkenazi Jewish and reports on the Holocaust and such topics on French television. She said, I needed photos of Brigitte Macron as a young woman with small children, showing an itinerary outside of those stamped by the Best Image Agency. What doesn't come out is anything to do with her former life. It's a total blackout. The second journalist is Sylvie Bamel, who does portraits in the French edition of Vanity Fair. She said while conducting her investigation, it's like an episode of Black Mirror where the President's offices have found a way to penetrate the brains of his former acquaintances and erase everything. So we are facing something completely incredible. All these journalists who are saying, let's tell the story of Brigitte Macron. They find this woman to be something almost paranormal.

A (9:35)

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B (11:19)

So what I do in my job is I archive things. This is what I really enjoy. I like going back into details and back into history and looking at people's problems. I had a bunch of people around me, my contacts in Paris, some mainstream journalists in the media who were egging me to say things. They said, go on, this is what you do. This is what I do. I take information and share it when other journalists cannot. And all of a sudden, I came across someone in my informal work surroundings, and he said, this is a man. Like, surely you can see this is a man. As if it was the most straightforward, obvious comment he could make about it. Another one of my colleagues, he's a civil servant. He calls her Amanda, which is a reference to a Mandalier. There was a similar case. It's not well known in the United States, but Amanda Lear, she was a somewhat notorious figure. She was a muse to Salvador Dali. She was a singer and a television star. She's famous in France. So her biographies were written and rewritten, and every time they were rewritten, there were small discrepancies with dates and timelines. I got the same impression when I read Brigitte Macron's biographies, for example, the death of a sister in 1960. But we later learned it was 1961, then the death of Anise the following year. But then when we would go dig for the information, we discover, actually, in fact, she died in 1966. Then she says, I bought my house. We bought our house in the le Toquet in 1950. We then go dig. It was actually 1957. And each time, like that, the story is modified. So in fact, we say to ourselves, what is this thing? There was this element of creating complexity and confusion in order to essentially hide the elephant in the room. Going back to Amanda Lear, Amanda Lear was born Alain Tope. He is very well known today. In fact, she was unmasked because at one time in her life she called herself Peggy from Oslo and she was actually Mick Jagger's drug dealer. So we are still experiencing these very borderline behaviors. My point is this avenue of a transsexual Persona has been created before, but it's very dangerous to try to delve into it because you run the risk of being branded a madman. Who is this man claiming this absurdity? Is he crazy? So I was facing that risk. I started talking to my broader network. I started going to everyone I knew, trying to figure out what was going on, because I knew there was a story here and I wanted to deepen myself within the story. But the French, all in all, don't realize what's going on. It's not really on their radar. They're not quite aware as to how big this is. All of a sudden I get a number from this girl called Natasha Ray. She's just a normal citizen, not a journalist. She claims to be able to prove Brigitte Macron is a man. So we begin to exchange ideas and work together for a month.

A (14:20)

And is this the moment when you were first introduced to, I guess, the name, the person, Jean Michel Trogneau? Because prior to there were essentially just no pictures of Brigitte Macron for 30 plus years of his or her life. And was it Natasha that first brought forth the name to you? Jean Michel Trogneau. Hello.

B (14:51)

So this is something interesting. I had identified this name in the archives of documents found in the commercial courts. I ordered a lot of documents from the commercial courts, called the inpi, to trace companies. I was interested in the trognose and I saw this name appear, which did not appear in the biographies. I realized that Emmanuel Macron wasn't really selling well to the public as a Persona. He was in managerial positions and in hedge funds. And the public wasn't really gripped by this. When they decided to create a presidential candidate, they tried to focus more on the background of Brigitte Macron's family, the Trogno family, who are a family of chocolatiers from Amiens, France, since it is a family which is rooted in the real country, in the real economy. That is to say, they are not bankers at Rothschilds. They don't do mergers and acquisitions, they make chocolates. They were even compared to the Kennedys in the French Press. At that moment we said to ourselves, why is there this insistence on each brother, each sister, each niece, etc. Except one Jean Michel Trogneau. Jean Michel was erased and Natasha told me that a family photo which was supposed to have Brigitte on her mother's lap had been shown to the press. And she told me, but look closely at the little boy. This is Jean Michel Trogneau. By process of elimination, it is Jean Michel Trogneau. And this hidden brother, if you look closely, is actually Brigitte Macron. She was fully convinced and I thought it's, it's very disturbing. It's. It's worth cross checking.

A (16:29)

So in America there's an expression we say the dog that doesn't bark, right? So what's quite interesting is this is the dog that's not barking. It's. There's all of this information about all the family members and you recognize that there's no information about this family member and that photograph that we saw of their family in Amien. I remember the first time that I saw that photo because that's actually what got me involved in the case. It was for me, a matter of common sense. I just looked at the photo and the Daily Mail was trying to tell me that the little girl on the lap was young Brigitte. And I just looked over to the left of the photo and I said, no, I have two eyes. Obviously I don't even know what the theory is, but that's clearly Brigitte, a very distinct face. You don't, you can't really change your face. Well, I guess you can, but it was very distinct to me. So this is sort of what Natasha noticed is you're looking at this family photo, you're looking into Amiens, you're looking into this chocolatiers and you're noticing that this boy on the left you don't know anything about whatsoever. What happens next.

B (17:42)

In an article, I stated that, you know, this is a legitimate question. It's one worth posing. Why is Brigitte hiding parts of her past? And why is there such an unwillingness to speak about Jean Michel? What really prompted me to pursue this question was when Natasha and I started speaking about this, they detained her on order of a cousin of Brigitte Macron. Natasha would develop an in depth thesis on how Brigitte Macron is Jean Michel Trogneau and who Brigitte's children actually belong to. We then realized further that one of the cousins was trying to set us up by giving us details which weren't quite accurate. Essentially Sending us down the wrong avenues. They tried manipulating Natasha myself, since I relied on this thesis for information and another reporter as well, into pursuing these false leads, perhaps on order from the Elysee and the government itself.

A (18:35)

Okay, so that's fascinating because. And this was also something that, again, I always tell my listeners, just common sense, right? So I'm just thinking, I'm the First lady of France, I'm Candace, and if somebody comes to me and says, hey, your brother doesn't exist, or your sister doesn't exist, I'm going to take an opportunity to do a press conference. I'm going to stand next to my brother and I'm going to say, conspiracy theories are harmful. Let's put this to bed. I wouldn't contact the French equivalent to the Secret Service and have them detain a journalist that's working on a story that instantly flags me as very odd. So you're saying in addition to this, they're also giving you misinformation, ironically, and trying to get you to arrive at the wrong conclusion. So you've got intimidation and you have misinformation, and all you're doing at this point is researching. You haven't even arrived at any conclusions. But that's probably making you feel like, what's going on here? Unfortunately, you guys, that is where we are going to have to cut the interview. As we said the last time we spoke with Xavier Poussard, this. Our interview got taken down from YouTube and we want to play it safe. So all of you can head to Candace Owens.com and watch the interview in its entirety. The rest of the interview, for free. It's completely free of charge. The topic is way too important for us to put it behind a paywall. We hope that you appreciate the conversation and I can't wait to speak with you guys about it on tomorrow's show. We'll see you then.