E. Michael Jones (3:10)

Thank you, Candice. Great to be here.

E. Michael Jones (3:12)

I am so pleased to have you on here to speak about pornography and this book. And this is, by the way, the second edition of this book. You had written this book and had theorized a lot about pornography as a spiritual weapon. I wouldn't even say it's a theory, it's just a fact. And then thereafter, this event happened in 2002, which made you recognize how correct you were. Can you talk about that?

E. Michael Jones (3:38)

Yeah. So the first edition came out 25 years ago and was greeted with skepticism. And then I was saying, it's form of control, and now it's freedom. And then I was talking about pornography in this regard. And then after the book came out, the Israelis invaded Ramallah, and one of the first things they did was take over the TV stations and they started broadcasting pornography from the TV stations. Now, how does this fit with the American understanding of pornography? I mean, Larry Flint, they did a movie about him, and he said, no one's free unless I can produce pornography. So pornography means freedom. So you mean the Palestinians or the Israelis are bringing freedom to the Palestinians by doing this? No, it's the exact opposite. It was an admission after the fact. Three years after the book comes out, then they finally have. I have the incident that proves what. What I'm saying is accurate. It's a form of control. They wanted to derange the Palestinian youth by having them look at pornography so they couldn't organize and fight this Israeli oppression. So I gave this speech after the first edition came. I gave it in Switzerland, and there were Palestinians in the audience. And they came up to me and said it was much worse than what you said. There were snipers on the roof. If you came out, they would shoot you. We know now that they do this kind of stuff because it's in the news every day now. But this was news Then so they were forced to watch pornography. Why'd they want to do that? Because they knew exactly what St. Augustine said. They wanted to get them to get addicted to pornography so they could control them. It's that simple.

E. Michael Jones (5:25)

So what is the meaning of libido dominandi just to reduce this to its Latin understanding?

E. Michael Jones (5:30)

It's the dominating lust or it's the lust to dominate. And so, as I said, there are two options. The City of God and the City of Man. The City of God is based on love and service. Love of your fellow man and service to your fellow man. Well, the City of Man has to be the opposite. Well, what's that? The opposite is domination. You're here to dominate other people for your good. That's the demonic alternative to the City of God.

E. Michael Jones (6:03)

And you start speaking about, really how this merged with psychology. But I want to start with France, where it seems like every bad idea and every sexual bad idea kind of arrived out of France into America. But it's interesting to learn how many of the greatest perverts were then sort of idolized as they. As we began formulating modern psychology and this theory that, you know, sex was about freedom, trying to, I believe, wrongly, and I think there's a lot of evidence that it is wrong that sex somehow frees people. And how the psychologists kind of introduced this concept that, you know, you're just not free enough because you haven't gotten in touch with your physical self. And really, your physical self, you're talking about your. Your. Your lower self, your. Your lower instincts. So I wanted you to speak a little bit about psychology and sex and kind of where, I guess the. The modern version of sex actually stems from, or where. When we started seeing people write things that I would describe as sexual deviancy and the derivative or I guess the origin of. Of the word sadistic, where it actually comes from.

E. Michael Jones (7:18)

All right, so basically, you have to go to the traditional understanding of the soul, which is basically logos, ethos, pathos. So you have reason at the top, and then you have will, and then you have passion. And there's nothing wrong with passion. They were created to drive us forward. It's like the energy. And the classic example of this was the horse. The rider on the horse. The horse. The rider is. Can the horse is a good thing. It's a powerful thing, but it's also a dangerous thing if you let the horse control your movements. And that's why you have the will or the bit in the horse's mouth. If you're talking about the French Revolution. You're talking about a revolution which means you turn things upside down. So now you put passion at the top, and passion now controls reason. Well, the Greeks knew about that. I mean, Hippolytus, Euripides, there's a man who always is in control of his horse, and then a monster comes up and he gets trampled to death by his own horses. You can get trampled to death by your horses if you allow passion to be in control. Well, if the revolution takes place, what was down at the bottom comes at the top. And the man who understood the implications of this in France was the Marquis de Sade, who had been basically incarcerated because he was incorrigible, he was a danger to society. They never had a trial. They put him there, and he ended up in the Bastille at this crucial moment in French history. Now, the moment was prepared for by pornography. Pornography was one of the main impetuses to the French Revolution. The king's cousin, the Duke d', Orleans, had a place called the Palais Royale where no laws were enforced. And they started producing pornography, specifically pornography dealing with Marie Antoinette, who was the queen, having her engage with sex with soldiers, horses, and stuff like that. And it was an attack on the dignity of the monarchy. And this is. De Sade steps in at this point. He's been incarcerated for years. He's writing books. He's writing pornographic books. He wrote the classic. The classic pornographic book which everyone read during the 19th century. And in it, it's kind of like pornography interspersed with rationalization. And it comes to formulates kind of the theory of rationalism, of pornography. And he says that the moral man is at rest, but the immoral man is in a state of perpetual unrest. Augustine would have said that he would agree. But now what do you. You want perpetual unrest because you want a revolution. You want to mobilize the forces against the king. You want to overthrow the established order. And the engine that's going to do this is sexual liberation. The French Revolution was first and foremost a sexual revolution. Wordsworth, the poet, went over and fathered an illegitimate child, because everyone's doing it over here now, but the man who mobilized it with the Marquis de Sade. And so there's a reaction. The Catholic reaction in the west is the. Basically, the Vendee is marching on Paris. They eventually get slaughtered by Napoleon, who then becomes the great leader. But he writes a little essay in which he says, we have to stimulate passion because the revolution is based on passion. And so what we need to do is exhibit women naked in the theater. Because this will stimulate passion. So this is kind of like pornography. But you got a technological problem here, because if you have a big theater and you're in the last row, you can't really see the lady. If you have a small theater, you're not mobilizing a lot men. And this would be eventually solved by technology.

E. Michael Jones (10:59)

So you have Marquis de Sade, and he's in France, and he's a total sexual deviant. And he wrote, really, it was just forms of sexual deviancy, sometimes even mixed with crime. Like, I mean, like. And again, Marquis de Sade, the word in the term sadistic actually derives from him. Sade, Sadistic. And you're correct. He understood that you could sort of fish out these passions in people and put them in a permanent state of unrest, in a state of revolution. But they were limited by the fact that there weren't screens and there weren't. There wasn't technology. And then you sort of see his image, despite the fact that he was a pervert and known to be a pervert and a criminal throughout his life, get sort of rehabilitated by psychologists. And you write about one of those psychologists, Wilhelm. I'm blanking on the last name.

E. Michael Jones (11:46)

Reich. Wilhelm Reich.

E. Michael Jones (11:47)

Wilhelm Reich.

E. Michael Jones (11:48)

There's a direct line from the Marquis de Sade through Bataille to Foucault, who became the guru of philosopher in the 1970s. But as you said, there was a second step. It was again revolution. The man who created the term sexual revolution was Wilhelm Reich. And he created it in the 1930s. Now he's in Austria. Now he's in Vienna. And Vienna is, you know, it's like the Viennese Jews versus the Catholics in the countryside. And he's a communist and he's a Freudian. And he found that whenever he tried to get people together to talk about the third thesis of the Fourth International, everybody left the room. Nobody was bored. He could always get a crowd to talk about sex. And so sex became the mobilizing device for the revolution. Now this is. Now we're talking about the Russian revolution, second big revolution. And so he started talking about, how do you deal with the situation in Austria, which is Catholic? Go to the Catholic priest. Go to the Catholic seminarians, okay? But don't debate the existence of God with a Catholic seminarian, because you'll always lose. Don't do that. Get the Catholic seminarian involved in masturbation. That's what he says. And he comes up with this thesis, little incident that he talks about, because either you masturbate or you pray, but you don't do both. And if you can get people to change their sexual habits, he said, the idea of God will evaporate from the seminarian's mind. And that's a crucial term because Reich became very influential after that, after he came over here. He had a huge influence over here. And I think in many ways, he's the father of the new left. Because the new Left was sexual. Foucault was part of that thing. You know, we're not going to talk about taking over the means of production anymore. Let's take over the culture. And we'll take over the culture by spreading pornography, because that creates masturbation, and masturbation causes people not to pray. And that will destroy the Catholic Church. That's kind of the whole theory in a nutshell.

E. Michael Jones (14:01)

And it is funny that you say the Catholic Church, because I think people might hear that and go, oh, that's just like a conspiracy. But what's quite fascinating is, and you can even look this up on Wikipedia, but they're the pornographers, the early pornographers in America. You had this guy named Al Goldstein, who quite literally said, and it's on his Wikipedia page, like, we Jews created and got into the pornography business to crush the Catholic Church because we hate. We hate Christianity and we hate Jesus Christ. That's a direct quote. Like, I will pull it up.

E. Michael Jones (14:29)

Christ sucks.

E. Michael Jones (14:30)

Christ sucks.

E. Michael Jones (14:30)

Where Jews are in pornography because Christ sucks.

E. Michael Jones (14:33)

Christ sucks. And so. And then when people, when you hear that, and that's so obviously anti Christian, they say, well, you talking about it is anti Semitic. Talking about how somebody hates me is somehow you're not allowed to know the history of pornography and that it was meant to quite literally be a spiritual weapon to corrupt people's spirits. And it's been largely successful. Now you say Wilhelm Reich. He is kind of the people who studied the school of Sigmund Freud. I landed in a lot of hot water on my previous show when I really, quite surprisingly, was learning about Sigmund Freud and discovered that not only was he a pervert who was very likely molested by his father, he then was in a homosexual affair with his best friend, Wilhelm Fliess, who molested his son, who. And he also then was covering for a bunch of pedophiles who had molested their children and molested their daughters and their sons. And I learned that because I stumbled upon Jeffrey Massone, who was the director of the Sigmund Freud archives, did everything right in his life, went to Harvard, Jewish psychologist, and was very Pleased to work under Anna Freud and decided when she said, you're going to be the next director of the Freud archives to learn German. And he learned German, starts going through all these archives that have never been made public and is shocked to discover that Sigmund Freud was covering for pedophiles. This wasn't children who were. His theory is who were just want, you know, attracted to their parents, which is totally a bonkers theory. But these people weren't lying. The people that he were seeing were molested by their children. He then brought that to the public thinking, oh, my gosh, wait until we realize that we've got this. The origins of the psychoanalytic movement wrong. And the exact opposite thing happened. The media turned on him. He was kicked out of the Freud Archive center. And he then was in a 10 year lawsuit because the media was smearing and libeling him. And he fought them for 10 years, won, and then it was appealed, and then he lost. It was an unbelievably expensive lawsuit. And he was so shocked by the fact that he was trying to bring to the forefront that pedophilia had happened and got kicked out of the psychoanalytic club. So what are we to make of that?

E. Michael Jones (16:53)

Well, you have to. There was a big crisis in Freud studies because Freud basically covered his tracks. He didn't want anyone to know where he got the ideas. So if you talk, he got ideas from Nietzsche. The whole idea of the Oedipus complex, the whole idea of incest as the way to become a God comes from Nietzsche. It's in the Birth of Tragedy, that powerful passage at the end of the Birth of Tragedy. But I think that the crucial start for Freud was the Illuminati manuscripts. Now, there was an Illuminati, it did exist as a secret society in Bavaria during the late 18th century, okay? And the documents were found and they were published by the King of Bavaria as a way of preventing this from happening. It was a man by the name of Adam Weishaupt. And Adam Weishaupt was a teacher at the University of Eichstadt. And it was a Jesuit university. And he was aware of the Jesuit examination of conscience. So before you go to confession, you examine your conscience and then you come up with the sins and you confess the sins, and then the priest says, go and sin no more. Well, this got weaponized. The same thing I said about Freud and Augustine. It got turned upside down so that now he comes up with this idea called Zalen analuze, which is the German word for examination of the soul. And he turns it into psychoanalysis. But Freud turned it into psychoanalysis. But basically what he's saying is you can take these, get the person to confess his sins to you, and then you can control them through his sins. So you can say, well, you know, you can do it again, as long as you keep me in the loop and we'll take care of that. And that's how the Illuminati got control of these people. This is exactly what Freud did. Exactly what Freud did and he did. And exactly what his goy, his gentile heir apparent, Jung, CG Jung, was supposed to do.

E. Michael Jones (19:02)

Well, that's interesting. So I actually haven't learned too much about Carl Jung. And I think he's still respected by a lot of people. So just illuminate me, like, let me know more about him. Because they then had a fractured relationship toward the end.

E. Michael Jones (19:17)

Yeah. And they go into this and there's supposed to be this scene where suddenly there's crackling in the bookshelf or something like that. And it basically came down to Freud was an atheist, but Jung believed in some type of God. I don't know what it is, but some type of spiritual force. His mother was a medium. She was involved in the whole occult tradition. So he brought that into it. But basically what we're talking about here is how do you control people? And we're going to talk about specific instances here. Rich Americans, they got a lot of money. We're talking about the 1920s. The currency here is crap. They got a lot of real money. And so Reude and Jung became involved in competition for who's going to get the rich Americans. And I think Freud, I'm sorry, Jung won the battle because he got involved with Maydel McCormick, the heir to the International Harvester foundation, and his sister, Edith Rockefeller, sister in law Edith Rockefeller McCormick. And they were both troubled. Now people are going to be troubled. If you cut yourself off from sacramental confession, you cannot get your sins forgiven. This is the whole story of America, which we could talk about another time. You go crazy when you don't get your sins committed. And so you need some type of release because the guilt becomes intolerable. And so you go to confession. Well, now you can do the exact opposite. So Meghan McCormick comes to Jung and he says, well, I've been sleeping with all these actresses. And Jung says, okay, you can keep doing it as long as you come and pay me these big fees. And then Edith Rockefeller McCormick gives him a lot of money. He builds his foundation. And Freud is furious because he's taking over his operation. Freud is involved in the same thing. Freud wrote to Fleece, invited him to Berlin, and Freud said, I'd love to come, but I'm afraid my patients will get well in my absence. He had one day. It's like he had a picture of a lion. And the subtitle is, it's already noon and no Negroes. In other words, I haven't eaten anyone yet. So he's preying on his own people. This came out long after the fact, long after the whole Freud thing. Johns Hopkins University published the correspondence between an American psychoanalyst named Horace Frink and Freud. Frink was a doctor. Frink wanted to become a psychoanalyst. In order to become a psychoanalyst, you have to go to Vienna, you have to lie down on the couch, and you have to tell Freud your history. Well, we're back to the Illuminati here. It's like the examination of conscience. And Frink sells him well. I'm having an affair with one of my rich patients. So instead of Freud saying, this is unethical, you know, you can't sleep with your patients, he says, divorce your wife, marry this rich woman, and then give me a significant contribution. That's the whole Freudian thing in a nutshell. Okay? All of this mumbo jumbo is to control people for your benefit, which is exactly what I said about libido dominant.

E. Michael Jones (22:24)

So it's almost a perfect inversion of the Church, because it's a church of Satan. And so you're basically where you have priests instead, you have these satanic priests, and they keep telling you to keep giving in to your lust, keep giving into your lust. And this is why, by the way, I am totally, I think, psychotherapy, psychoanalysis, and you can trace everything back what's happening in society to essentially, that's what happens today. How do we get. How do we get to this transgender problem? We have a bunch of kids going to therapy, and they're not making them better. They're telling them that every feeling you have is valid. Every. Every libido instinct that you have is valid. If you think this, then it's right, Go be you. Go be your best self again. That city of man that's being created like, worship yourself. And every instinct that you have, do not temper your desires, lean into them. And people don't understand what we read earlier, which is that eventually you become a sl. You become weaker and weaker, and you become a slave to your desires because you have absolutely no control, and you have essentially dominated the Logos. And you're just sort of living in this fe that is fully driven by desire.

E. Michael Jones (23:31)

Right. I think that that's the whole point. Anyone who tells you to give in to your passions is talking to turning you into a slave. And so what you have over this period of time is the development of technologies of control that will culminate in social engineering. It will culminate in the mainstreaming of pornography. Just I. I'm reluctant to quote this. I saw it on the Internet, just briefly, but there's two groups, two brothers, the Krassenstein brothers. And one of them just spilled the beans. He said, we need to have the goyim watching pornography because otherwise they will put us in concentration camps. That may not be an exact quote. They will attack us. They will beat us up. Something like that. And so we have to enslave them, to distract them by getting them watching pornography, enslaved to their passion. That's exactly what the Israelis do, attempted to do in Gaza. I'm sorry, in Ramallah. That's exactly what they tried to do. So the technology is out. It's as if these people were spilling the beans about private conversations. There are people who know these things. There are people who have been putting these things into practice, but they're not going to tell you. Because if they tell you, well, I'm doing this to control you. It doesn't work. It only works if you don't know. So I just randomly. I pull up at the supermarket, I'm locking my bicycle, and some guy says to me, you're E. Michael Jones, aren't you? I said, yeah. He said, I stopped watching porn because of you. Now, I never talked to this guy, but I. All you, sometimes all you have to say is sexual liberation is a form of control. And suddenly the people. I didn't have to explain this to the generation in 2019, to the generation that had grown up with their cell phones as access to pornography. They understood that they were slaves. They came up with this thing called NoFap November. People were not gonna watch pornography. We're not gonna masturbate. And lo and behold, Rolling Stone attacks these people and calls them anti Semites. Well, wait a minute. You just let the cat out of the bag here. Are you saying that Jews control pornography? Well, yeah, of course you are. And of course they do. They have from the beginning. There's a guy, professor of the University of Pennsylvania, wrote a book called Bookleggers and Smut Hounds. Scholarly book. He said, Jews have controlled pornography from the beginning. That is the one way they weaken the dominant culture, and that allows them to take control.

E. Michael Jones (25:57)

Well, I don't think that they deny that. By the way, there's tons of footage on the Internet of pornography directors discussing that and saying, we control the pornography industry. Now, not many of them give a reason as to why that is, but I definitely don't think that that's something that can be disputed.

E. Michael Jones (26:12)

And yet there's a rabbi, owns pornhub, or started pornhub.

E. Michael Jones (26:16)

Now they say, oh, well, that's fact check that. Because then he sold it to a private equity firm. And that's kind of. Now it doesn't. But yeah, it begs the question, what are the requirements to be a rabbi? Because everyone that I've come across has been a bit wacky, to be honest. Right.

E. Michael Jones (26:29)

I know you've had your own experience with rabbis recently.

E. Michael Jones (26:32)

Yes.

E. Michael Jones (26:33)

So what does this say about a rabbi? What does it say about his religion? If he's promoting something that is everyone recognizes as evil and debilitating, what does that say? We're just drawing the implications now, I think, because there are implications from these statements. It's like the Jews announcing that abortion is a fundamental Jewish value. That was the quintessential requirement for sexual liberation, to be able to have an abortion, so you didn't have to face up to the consequences of that sexual intercourse that you had. And now suddenly it's being portrayed as a fundamental value by Jews. We have to understand this and draw the implications.

E. Michael Jones (27:12)

Well, what's interesting, though, is when you think about a rabbi starting a pornhub and then maybe selling it, it does bring into question what. What is your faith like? What do you actually believe that you can become a rabbi? Because it's unimaginable that there would be a Catholic priest that would be allowed to start pornhub and maintain the title of a Catholic priest. And this gets into kind of realizing that there are which people, I don't think recognize a lot of different sects when it comes to. But your theory is that all of it is sort of. I don't want to put words in your mouth here because there was a specific word that you used, but not contrary to Christianity, but it agitates Christianity no matter what. Like these two philosophies are incompatible no matter what.

E. Michael Jones (28:08)

Well, it's another book. I wrote a book called the Jewish Revolutionary Spirit, which followed after this book. You know, it's about 10 years after I wrote that book, but I had. If I thought. I'm thinking if I'm going to talk about this, I have to get back to the. What's the basic issue? And the basic issue is not racial. It's theological. And the theological issue came to a head when Jesus Christ arrived on this earth and he's the Messiah. And the Jews have to make a decision. Do we accept this man on his terms as the Messiah, or do we want someone better? And if you go to The Gospel of St. John, there's a big dispute between Jesus Christ and the Jews. And they play the race card. They say, we are the seed of Abraham. You can't push us around. And Jesus Christ said, God doesn't need your DNA. Didn't quite say it that way, but, I mean, he could raise up rocks. And so the crucial issue is, who is Jesus Christ? He's the Logos incarnate. And what is your position with the Logos incarnate? Do you accept them or do you reject them? And I'm saying that the Jews who accepted them became the Catholic Church. The Christians and the Jews who rejected them have been in rebellion against Logos ever since. And so there is this. Logos means the order of the universe that God created. And if you're in rebellion against that, you're a revolutionary. Well, they're revolutionaries. They are. And that's why I call the book the Jewish Revolutionary Spirit. And you have something like the Bolshevik Revolution. You know, that was a Jewish. That was a Jewish operation. It wasn't saying every Bolshevik was a Jew or every Jew was a Bolshevik, but it was a Jewish operation. And the thing that got me started on that book was the neoconservative press to get us involved in the war in Iraq. How did this happen? How did such a small group of people get control of the entire foreign policy to the point where we invaded a country that didn't have anything to do, wasn't doing anything against it.

E. Michael Jones (30:06)

Yeah. Well, yeah. The neocon movement is just not conservative whatsoever. And I think people are starting to come to terms with that. And it is interesting because I could not verify this fact. I can't find a picture, but I thought it was really interesting. The neocons love William F. Buckley. Like, that's. Like, this is what it means to be a neocon. We think William F. Buckley has the greatest ideas. And I love that Tucker Carlson said, I think he's actually one of the great villains of the 20th century. But I then when I was researching that guy, Al Goldstein, this pornographer, I realized that he started Screw magazine with somebody named James Buckley.

E. Michael Jones (30:41)

Yeah.

E. Michael Jones (30:42)

And I don't know who James Buckley is. I can't find A picture. I can't find a photo.

E. Michael Jones (30:44)

I don't think they're related.

E. Michael Jones (30:45)

Okay. Because there is in the same family. There's of course they could not be related. I don't know. But I can't find anything on this person. And I'm just like wondering what is, what's going on there. Who's James Buckley? Who started, who was involved in the pornography industry?

E. Michael Jones (30:57)

I don't think he had anything to do with William F. Buckley. But William F. Buckley was a man who created conservatism. He created conservatism. And this is in 1953. I know the guy. He wrote a book called God man at Yale. Henry Regnery was the publisher. I was a friend of Henry Regnery before he, before he died. He also published Russell Kirk's book the Conservative Mind in the same year. Some people claimed that Buckley did it with CIA money. I asked Joe Sober in that when he was alive. It's debatable. Buckley was in the CIA. But anyway, what were they created was a new form of conservatism to distance everyone from America first, which I think was the real form of conservatism.

E. Michael Jones (31:39)

Of course it was.

E. Michael Jones (31:40)

Henry Reganry's father was the treasurer for America first. And on December 8, 1941, the CIA showed and the FBI showed up and took his mailing list. And that killed America First. Okay, so something new came in. And this thing, new thing is America first was isolationist. Now we got this, we're backing the anti communist crusade. And then Buckley went on to become the spokesman for conservatism. But the tragedy is that they yanked his chain. When Joe Sobrin started writing articles critical of Israel, they yanked Buckley's chain and he wrote an article denouncing Pat Buchanan, who was the big representative conservative of America first at this point. And Joe Sober and Joe Soberman idolized Bill Buckley and he stabbed him in the back because the Jews yanked his chain. It's that simple. And so he just went along and now it just became irrelevant. It became irrelevant. The ultimate irrelevancy was when this group of people at National Review announced that Donald Trump is not a real conservative. And then he wins, becomes president. So now what do you do? Now what do you do? These guys are completely irrelevant. Robbie. George, just who was one of the people who. I think he's the guy who masterminded that manifesto, just announced that no Catholic can be an anti Semite. Catholics should not be anti Semite. Didn't define the term. Okay, what do you mean by this? I mean, you were attacked. I had to jump in at this point because they're Catholic. I mean, you're basically partly. The water of bapt is still moist on your forehead. And these people want to excommunicate you because they come up with this idea that you're an anti SEM. What does that mean? We have to define this term. We can't let ourselves be bullied anymore by this term. It's just. We're past that.

E. Michael Jones (33:40)

Yeah, I think all across the board people are tired of it. I said it was sort of like when bln everybody was a racist. And now we're kind of getting into. And then people got tired of calling everybody a racist and nobody cared anymore. And I think we're finally arriving at that point with anti Semitism. It's like you're just saying everyone's an anti Semite, which means that nobody's actually an anti Semite. Just trying to assert control because you can't actually argue the ideas.

E. Michael Jones (34:00)

Yes, that's right. There was a crucial moment in the Catholic Church where the Catholic Church stood up to the Jews in Hollywood. And it was 1933 and it was the Legion of Decency. So the entire country in the 1920s is very upset about the movies that are coming out of Hollywood because it's nudity. We don't know this anymore. I mentioned a book to you where you can find out the pre code film. And they were pushing homosexuality. They were pushing ridicule of clergy. They're pushing nudity, they're pushing obscenity. And the Protestants who were the dominant group, they got Will Hayes. They tried to stop it. They failed. And then the Catholics stood up to the Jews. They basically called for a boycott of Cardinal Doherty of Philadelphia, called for a boycott of Warner Brothers Theaters in Philadelphia. And Joe Breen, who was the man in Hollywood negotiating this, said, harry Warner is crying te biggest horse turds because he's losing $100,000 a week in Philadelphia. Now that threatened to go to New York, to Chicago, to Cleveland, to every big city in the Northeast that had a big Catholic population. And that was going to be the end of Hollywood. And so Hollywood backed down. They instituted the Production Code. Now that was successful for 32 years. For 32 years you didn't have it. Maybe the golden age of Hollywood. Hollywood's not doing well now. Now, you know, with woke superhero movies, they're not doing well. Okay. They don't know how to deal this. So it kept Hollywood in line. But they didn't like this. They were always. And finally they Saw their moment. The moment was the Second Vatican Council. There seems to be this type of new movement approach to the Jews. It's in Nostra Aetate and they release a Holocaust film called the Pawnbroker. And in the Pawnbroker, it's basically there's a black prostitute walks into the pawn shop and she opens her shirt, bare breast on the screen, breaks the code. And I. So Monsignor. I saw the correspondence between Monsignor Little, who was head of Legion of Decency, and Eli Landau, who was the producer. And he said, shoot it from behind. Have the black prostitute with her back toward the camera and then put Rod Steiger's face in the frame. And that way you'll get some acting. It's a much more. No, they didn't want to do that. They didn't want drama. They wanted bare breast on the screen because that's how they're going to make more money. And they also were using the Holocaust as the hammer that was going to intimidate the Catholics. And the Catholics ran up the white flag. They had a failure of nerve. And within. So Landau says to Monsignor Little, this will be a great era of cinematic art within seven years. We had Deep Throat, first run theaters, Devil and Ms. Jones. We had hardcore pornography on the big screen because that's what they wanted. And it's only gotten worse since that time. As soon as you get the computer, pornography's always driven by technology. As soon as you get the computer, you have VHS pornography, drove VHS sales. Then you have the Internet and then you have the Communications Decency Act. Hollywood comes up with two propaganda films, People vs. Larry Frint and Boogie Nights. And they allow pornography on the Internet. Fateful decision. Now you got all these young people who grew up with easy access to pornography. It's a crisis now because they cannot relate to members of the opposite sex because sin isolates you. This type of sin isolates you. They cannot form families. There's a huge crisis right now and they're only now waking up. It was only 2019 when people started saying, well, maybe it is slavery. Maybe Jones was right when he wrote that book.

E. Michael Jones (37:55)

There is something happening right now. And it's been amazing to see. I've been speaking about pornography and men have been reacting. And they say in the comments section, thank you so much for talking about this. Like, I struggle with this all the time. And to hear someone speak about this struggle, it gives me faith to know that you're not alone. And I tell them, don't be ashamed to because you were targeted. Right? You grew up with the phone. They also took over, obviously, the classrooms. It's like Soviet propaganda. And I distinctly remember learning in my health class that watching pornography was healthy, that you should watch pornography, that it is actually healthy to watch pornography because it lets you learn about sex. Sort of this book that Thomas Sowell writes to explain how they intentionally, and they did use Soviet tactics, tried to put a wedge between children and their parents. Like, your parents are old fashioned, they don't think this is okay. And within one decade you had that. The majority of them were graduating high school with virginity intact. Complete reversal within 10 years. Because they then put all these incentives for health in sexual, sexual learning or just teaching you these things because your parents won't do that for you. And so it's incredible to reflect on that and realize that I had this perspective growing up that people like, of course, if you date a guy, it's totally fine if he watches pornography. That's actually gonna keep your relationship healthy. This wasn't my idea. This is what I was taught. You're passing the class and you're getting that feedback like you know things correctly. You're gonna grow up and you're gonn healthy relationship if you allow your boyfriends to watch pornography. And this is what it looks like. And now I look back on that and I'm now team homeschool your kids. Because this is. Your children's spirits are intentionally being captured in a classroom and they're introducing these satanic forces. And it is very hard, especially for boys, because there is. Obviously they're biologically wired differently from women.

E. Michael Jones (39:43)

Right?

E. Michael Jones (39:43)

You get them addicted to pornography when they're young, telling them it's good, the odds are stacked against them when they get older. And if it becomes an addiction for them, and for many of them, it has become an addiction because like I said, pornography is everywhere. My husband doesn't even have social media because he says, I don't think you realize even if you're reading the Daily Mail, you're seeing soft core pornography. And the way that women dress, what they're putting on the COVID what they're putting everywhere is, we've just okayed soft core pornography.

E. Michael Jones (40:12)

No, it's worse than that. Because of X and Twitter, it's full of pornography. Elon Musk. God bless Elon Musk. He restored me. I got banned from Twitter. He restored me. You're allowed to say things now on there, but really you're not doing yourself any favors or us any favors by allowing all this pornography. You can do that.

E. Michael Jones (40:32)

Why do you think he allows that? That's very interesting.

E. Michael Jones (40:35)

I think he's made a deal with the Jews. I think he went to Auschwitz. You go there to offer corrupt incense to idols. And I think he's instituted what the ADL says, which is basically freedom of speech, but not freedom of reach. And I think that part of the deal, it's not explicit, but I think part of the deal is to allow pornography. Because pornography, as we've established here, is a form of control. And the Jews insist on it. They insist on having that allowed because they're afraid that if people stop watching pornography, they're all gonna be put in concentration camps. This is the type of rhetoric this was in that thing I just quoted you.

E. Michael Jones (41:13)

I'm find that article you said. Rolling Stone.

E. Michael Jones (41:16)

Rolling Stone, yeah. It's easy to find. Okay. You also had a crucial turning point in the so called women's movement. So you had Kathryn MacKinnon and Andrea Dworkin saying pornography victimizes women. Well, duh, Wendy, that's great you figured that out. So what happened at that point? It was gaining traction in the feminism. Guess who stopped it? It? Betty Friedan. Her maiden name is Betty Goldstein. And then she came and defended pornography. So this is. Blood is thicker than water. This is the Jewish principle here of pornography. We need this to control the goyim. And she's the one who did it. And spread division in the feminist movement at a time when you were getting allies, you could have had allies between the right and the left here against pornography. And Xi. She disrupted it. Yeah.

E. Michael Jones (42:07)

It's very interesting to see that even on the conservative side, and people that you would say describe themselves as ultra conservative will still defend pornography.

E. Michael Jones (42:17)

Dennis Prager defends pornography.

E. Michael Jones (42:18)

Yeah. Ben Shapiro defends pornography. I remember sitting across from him at a backstage event, and me and the Catholics, I was not a Catholic at the time, but me and Michael Knowles and Matt Walsh were all saying no to pornography, like not even a couple of times. And then Ben was kind of giving this soft defense. And, well, you know Jewish people, it's down to the law. And we wouldn't say. I want to get the exact argument of why Jewish people don't find it to be problematic. I think he said that it was because it's the thing, not the thought, that's the sin. And so since they are not cheating on their wives, which I don't see how that's not cheating on your wife. Watching pornography is not considered a violation. It's not considered a sin, was how he Summed it up. And then Matt sort of countered and said, okay, so you would be okay with your wife going to a hotel and watching two people have sex, as long as she doesn't get involved. Like, that's not a sin. And it was a great rebuttal. And I was very confused. I'm like, this is such an easy thing. Obviously, pornography. And that was Dennis Prager's defense as well. He went on Matt Fradd's podcast, a Catholic podcast, was like, it's the. The thought is not the thing. And I'm going, don't we all know that thought thoughts come before the thing? You have to think it before you do it.

E. Michael Jones (43:35)

That's exactly what I was going to say. You have to think it before you do it. And it's in your mind. And if the progression is a mortal sin is grievous matter, full consent of the will, well, it's got to be in your mind before you can consent to it. And so the Church would call it a near occasion of sin, which means you're putting yourself in danger by doing this. And so you should avoid the near occasions of sin. Sin. Now we've got this comprehensively complicated situation. So am I in a near occasion of sin because I'm on Twitter? I mean, what are we doing here?

E. Michael Jones (44:07)

It's frustrating. I'm like. I'm looking up something, and then suddenly I'm looking at pornography. Like, it just pops up. And it's very, very frustrating because it's just. It's wrong. I should not have to be exposed to pornography.

E. Michael Jones (44:17)

Should be exposed to this.

E. Michael Jones (44:18)

Because I'm looking up a hashtag that has nothing to do with pornography.

E. Michael Jones (44:22)

Yeah, if you. So we should. I hope Elon Musk is listening here, because we should not be exposed to this. And you're undermining your position on free speech if you're allowing pornography. Because pornography is the extinction of thought. That's the whole point of it.

E. Michael Jones (44:37)

So you will hear people who are conservatives who actually say, well, what are you talking about? It's protected by the 1A. And that fascinates me because it really lets you know that they don't know history. They don't know how that became a thing. They don't know who Samuel Roth is and how, for whatever reason, they've been polluted to believe that pornography is speech. It's so obviously not speech. It's obscenity.

E. Michael Jones (44:59)

It was never considered speech. It was obscenity, never considered speech.

E. Michael Jones (45:03)

And when did it become speech?

E. Michael Jones (45:05)

Over the course of the 1950s and 1960s, where you had these Supreme Court decisions where the Supreme Court is trying to figure out, what is it? And you had people like Norman Mailer. It was. Was a Jewish operation. Pornography is always a Jewish operation.

E. Michael Jones (45:22)

Yeah.

E. Michael Jones (45:22)

There's people. Find one who would say, well, the crucial thing was it's art. This is the crucial thing that happened with Mapplethorpe in Cincinnati. Remember Mapplethorpe, the photographer? Catholic boy who was completely corrupted by the homosexual culture. He is the man who valorized homosexuality. I mean, when I was a kid, there were, you know, people. If you're hitchhiking, some queer would pick you up. And they were creepy people. People. And so everybody knew they were creepy people. But he comes along and he's got this photography of what he was doing in these places, like the Mine Shaft, you know what I mean? And everybody is shocked, but it gave them kind of some type of heroic stature. So anyway, the government, the NCAA sponsors, the National Endowment for Arts sponsors this Mapplethorpe exhibit, and it's immediately they called obscene. Then they go to Cincinnati. Cincinnati is a Catholic town. It's always been a Catholic town. It's been one of the bulwarks against abortion, for example. And they put the guy on trial, and the Jews fund it. And so it comes down to it's art. Well, by this point, the Jews had totally destroyed art. I'm getting ahead of myself. It's in the dangers of beauty. If you want to talk about Kahnweiler and Picasso and the wreck of art, read that book. Book. Okay. But by this time, who knows what art is? It's like Jack Jackson Pollock. Time magazine calls him Jack the Dripper. He drips on the thing. Nelson Rockefeller buys it, puts it up on a wall of the Chase Manhattan bank, and therefore, it's art. So now nobody knows what it is. And you come to this obscenity trial in Cincinnati, and the guy says. The guy's on the stand. He said, well, they said it was art. I don't know. I guess it's art. And they quote, this is how they got. This is how they moved, step by step by step to the point where you're now on Twitter and you're doing some type of search, and suddenly, whoa, I didn't ask for that. Really, Elon? Really? Do us a favor. You can do it. You can do this. This is not free speech. It's the end of free speech.

E. Michael Jones (47:34)

It is funny that you bring up art, because the more that I do research into, well, what went wrong in America, and it kind of brought me to learning a bit about Aleister Crowley and his movement. And I want to be clear. Everything that we're talking about, it was the elites that brought all of this. I think people had this idea that it was like a poor people or a fringe group. It was always the elites who were involved in bringing pornography, people who had incredible wealth and access. And Aleister Crowley is a great example of that because he is a person who was labeled as the wickedest man in the world, but he was friends with all of the elites. All of the elites. Mussolini famously kicked him out because he was having this sexual ritual party. And that guy that I was telling you about, who wrote the book Hollywood Babylon and spoke about the beginning of the origins of Hollywood and how it was kind of always demonic and how it was a lot of Crowley's proteges who were involved in that. He speaks about that house that Mussolini eventually kicked Aleister Crowley and his people out. And in an interview, he speaks about how art, modern art was all a part of this house. And who visited this house. Alfred Kinsey, as an example, one of the. This. All the psychologists, all of these people that we know introduced these perverse ideas via psychology, were a part of this nest, if you will, like in believing in sexual rituals and sexual freedom. Aleister Crowley, he was the precursor to the hippie movement. Like it was a bunch of elites getting together.

E. Michael Jones (49:02)

Sergeant Pepper album. He's one of the figures on the COVID there.

E. Michael Jones (49:04)

That album cover. Okay. Tons of conspiracies. I don't. I'm Catholic now. I don't believe conspiracies. I believe in providence. And people should examine that because I am now fully convinced after having read Chaos, that the Beatles were like a CIA psychological operation. And I think towards the end, maybe they started speaking about that because, you know, when John Lennon. When John. Was it John Lennon who got shot? Sorry, I know I sound really young. It was John Lennon who got shot.

E. Michael Jones (49:35)

Yeah. 1981.

E. Michael Jones (49:36)

The CIA was there. I don't know if you know about that. The CIA did know that. Yes, the CIA was there when he got shot. And the story never actually made sense, the catcher in the Rye hole bit. But what's fascinating about that is on that cover, I think they're telling you a lot. I think if you really look at the list, I talked about that on my podcast of that album. And you realize what was happening in the 60s, full stop. I mean, they were dealing with mass. Trying to create mass psychosis.

E. Michael Jones (50:00)

I think that they were brought in in 1964 to distract everyone from The Kennedy assassination. And I think that was the. Especially my generation.

E. Michael Jones (50:09)

Yeah, well, they created fake celebrities. There's no question about that. That there were government. Like, some of these celebrities work for the government. I think actors too. Like, there are some actors that to me, like Sean Penn, I'm just like, why is there ever. Every time, like. Or bone, is it Bono. Every time there's anything going on, like, suddenly, like, Bono's performing over here and Sean Penn's doing a movie on it. And obviously Pentagon makes films. So it's a psychological. Hollywood in and of itself is a government psychological operation. We're trained to believe history happened this way. If they make a cinematic masterpiece, you know about Pearl harbor, then you have no questions about the narrative. If they make a cinematic masterpiece, they created the narrative. They created the Holocaust, but it's all mass psychosis. Hollywood was created.

E. Michael Jones (50:49)

Billy Wilder was there filming the CIA. It wasn't CIA. It didn't exist anymore. But the psychological warfare operation that was under General McClure, under Eisenhower, had C.D. jackson show up at Buchenwald and create this spectacle of. The people were brought in from Weimar. And he held up a. There was a lampshade supposedly made out of Jewish skin. There was a pelvis. It was supposed to be an ashtray, and two shrunken heads. What's this got to do with Germany at all? Germans do not shrink heads, I guarantee you. They were taken from a museum, from Amazon tribes that do shrink heads. The man who filmed this was Billy Wilder. Billy Wilder went on to be famous as the. The director of Marilyn Monroe and Some like it hot and 1, 2, 3, and a lot of things. That's where it got started. That's where the narrative got started. Hollywood was a crucial part in the creation of this narrative.

E. Michael Jones (51:48)

It still is a crucial part in the creation of every narrative. And I think you're right, but that's why I show people. Do you think it's normal that, like Hollywood, like at the Pentagon, they have an office dedicated to film, Hollywood films, and they go in and sit with the directors and tell them how to make things as they're telling you. Stor. Like the CIA was involved in the film Zero Dark Thirty. So it's. Do you really trust the CIA to tell you exactly what happened when they captured Osama bin Laden? I don't know. Maybe you do. And I went through this list of showing them all of the films that the CIA funded and helped produce and told them how to shoot it. And they have their guys go down there on Hollywood sets. Shouldn't that indicate to you just naturally like, hey, maybe we're not getting the full picture and they're making a beautiful movie so that we have this emotional reaction and attachment to believing that this is how it happened. And it's not history, it's a narrowly tailored version of history that is supposed to make you connect with the narrative, like whether. And it's always like these big stories. They pick the Titanic even, oh, this beautiful love story and Rose is on the boat and she's dying and then you don't really ask any questions, like this just must be exactly how it went down. And so it is interesting to revisit Hollywood through the lens of understanding that it is and forever has been a way to implement a mass psychosis. Because now they have the technology. They don't have to just put you in a theater and try to convince you from far away like they did in France. Now they have the technology and also the means to then make that a blockbuster film and to give it awards, the Academy Awards and Oscars so that you're drawn to go want to see the film that's winning all of these awards is nominated for all of these statues.

E. Michael Jones (53:28)

I think that's part of the reason the Catholics lost their nerve because Hollywood had become the propaganda ministry literally during World War II. These are propaganda.

E. Michael Jones (53:38)

Edward Bernays.

E. Michael Jones (53:40)

That was earlier too, but I mean I'm saying. And so now sort of we still have communism. It's still 1960s, you don't have communism, you have the anti communist crusade and so on and so forth. And, and so is it un American then to oppose Hollywood? We're dealing also with the fact that Hollywood creates role models for the rest of us and they create the ideal black and they create the ideal Catholic and they create the ideal so on and so forth. And we as a result suffer from identity theft. So we don't know who, we don't know who we are anymore.

E. Michael Jones (54:13)

Our behavior is being socially engineered from Hollywood. And again, that book Hollywood Babylon made me realize that when it started speaking about how they perfectly engineered. They intentionally engineered women to stop wearing skirts and start wearing pants. And they brought in this dyke from Germany and they made her a star. I mean totally fake, just turned her into a star. Red carpets. And everyone was reading about her and seeing her and they thought she was so cool. And you see this now when you capture these various psychoses like you speak to young girls or see them regarding Taylor Swift or Beyonce. What is this? What's happened is you believe you're an Atheist. But you're not an atheist. You have many gods. You're a pagan. And there are these Hollywood stars that you worship like they're idols and you'll sacrifice anything. Like there was an article which described how adult women were going to the Taylor Swift concert wearing diapers because they didn't want to miss a single second of her three hour concert. So they decided to just go in their diapers if they needed to. What is that?

E. Michael Jones (55:13)

Infantilization.

E. Michael Jones (55:15)

And it's completely demonic. And this is not me trying to attack Taylor Swift, but just people not realizing you've been possessed, right? You are now worshiping this person. And Hollywood creates the idol so they can introduce anything. Now you can see they're pushing hardcore for the trans stuff. And now everybody to be a star is like non binary and you know, gender bending. And it's something that people need to wake up to that Hollywood in and of itself is demonic. And it always has been. There wasn't like a decade where it was moral and that the people that were the actors were good people.

E. Michael Jones (55:52)

But it was possible to keep them under control for three years, 32 years. And we have to keep that in mind too. Hegel said the Die Euler for Mon flique mais by Denelauh. The owl of Minerva usually flies at twilight. He's talking about Twilight of the Empire, Twilight of the age. I think that's what we're living in right now, the owl of wisdom. Because at the twilight things start to break down. All of the narratives that we were raised with are starting to collapse and there's this vacuum now, you know, And I think that's the service that we can provide. We can say, no, no, there is a real order to the universe. It's not something that's created by Hollywood. No, God created that order for the universe. And all we have to do is go back to the order he created and start from there.

E. Michael Jones (56:42)

Why do you think it's starting to crack though? Because it is interesting to see this. Like suddenly people are starting to ask questions. It's. People are going, wait, what's really happening? The mainstream media, nobody trusts them anymore except for very small group. That's why they're demanding the Internet be censored. Because they're realizing people are beginning to question their authority. But what do you think is contributing to that?

E. Michael Jones (57:07)

Emmanuel Todt is a French writer. He wrote a book called La Defet des l'. Occident. La Defet des l' Occident the Defeat of the West. And he said basically the American empire is collapsing because Protestantism has evaporated. That's what he said. Protestantism is the hidden grammar of America. If Samuel Huntington wrote a book called who are We? And he said we, if you made Americans, we are Anglo Protestants. He's talking about the Puritans. Obviously there were French in Canada, there were Spaniards in Mexico, but this Puritan group conquered every other group group in America, including the Southerner states in the Civil War. And they were Puritans. And so that's great. I think he's right. I think the Protestantism is evaporating. It had a 500 year run, okay, but now it's running out of steam. And so. But the problem is he doesn't understand Protestantism. So yeah, Protestantism was the hidden grammar of America. But what's the hidden grammar of Protestantism? It's Satanism. No, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. You can't say that. Well, why am I saying that? I'm talking about the Puritans. Who was the great Puritan poet? It was John Milton. What is this great epic called? It's called Paradise Lost. Who's the hero of Paradise Lost? It's Satan. Every romantic poet knew this. The people all. He glamorized Satan. It's one of the greatest, greatest pieces of literature in the English language. When Satan wakes up in hell and he's been defeated by the God and the good angels and he looks around him and he says, we're going to regroup. I got a plan. And he ends this speech by saying, awake, arise or be forever fallen. He's addressing those demons there and what does he say? He says, the mind is its own place, face. We don't need him to tell us what to do. It's better to reign in hell than to serve in heaven. Well, there's a strain of America that feels that way. There's a strain of America and we have to face up to that fact. And we have to face up to the fact that this has had its day. Those people have had their day and it's collapsing and there's a vacuum. And whenever there's a vacuum, people go crazy because they don't have to act.

E. Michael Jones (59:36)

So I have a huge following of Protestants. How can you not if you're in America? And when they hear that, when they hear you say Protestantism is a form of Satanism or is Satanism. I want you to explain why it is that you're saying that, because that's hugely controversial.

E. Michael Jones (59:54)

What was the Reformation? It was a looting operation. There was no theological. I'M talking about the English Reformation in particular. Particular. There is no theological justification for the Reformation. It was basically the aristocrats wanted church property. R.H. tawney wrote the book called Religion and the Rise of Capitalism. He said the upstart aristocracy had their teeth in the carcass and they weren't going to be driven off by a sermon. That's church property. That was the basis of the new England. They stole that property. Property. Okay. How did they justify. They're in rebellion against the order, the establish order. For 900 years, the Catholic Church provided, used the wealth of the England to provide in part for an establishment of institutions that would take you in if you were sick, if you had needed a place to stay. The Benedictine charism was hospitality that was all. All turned on its head overnight by the Protestant Reformation. William Cobbett's the man to read about this. His history of the Reformation in England and Ireland is absolutely devastating book in this regard. So at this point, you had capitalism. Nobody liked it. Nobody. They had to create the first police force, thought police force. Walsingham under Queen Elizabeth, spying on people. Shakespeare wrote at a time he knew what was going on. He wrote at a time when if you were caught saying Mass, they would take you and hang you till you weren't dead. And then they'd disembowel you and boil your entrails in oil if you were a Catholic. And then that got ratified in the Glorious Revolution. And it was these are the people. So these people, the English people didn't like it. The other sects didn't like the established church. And you had the Puritan revolution in the 1640s, and it was John Milton who was the secretary to Cromwell, and Cromwell killed the king. That's regicide. That's satanic. This is the origin of the Puritans. There's no other origin. That's what they were. So what happened? Okay, we're Americans. What happens when they come here? You got to survive. And so the religion got modified gradually because we got to live through the winter here. We're in the forest of New England. We're moving west. It's all this hostile territory. And the religion eventually got modified to the point where that's what Americans are. They're people who modify their religion in light of the frontier.

E. Michael Jones (62:34)

Okay, and that's interesting. So what a Protestant would say is, okay, but you can't, you can't ignore the fact that the Catholic Church, that Rome, that Rome was corrupt. And Martin Luther did this great service by pointing out via his theses, which he nailed onto. Which he notoriously nailed onto the wall. Except maybe there's no evidence they actually did that, but they would say, okay, can you admit that there was corruption in the Church? And so he. There's never been a time when there.

E. Michael Jones (63:05)

Is not corruption in the church. There's corruption in the Church. Right? Now the question is, are you willing to break with the Church to deal with the corruption? Great saints have always fought corruption in the church. Church. This is. This you get. You're getting the Whig history version of Martin Luther. You get it in school. You get it everywhere. Martin Luther was a Catholic priest, okay? He had trouble controlling his passions. Remember passions here, okay? Had trouble with drink, had trouble with gluttony. He had trouble with sex and he had trouble with anger, okay? And now he breaks with the Church. And as soon as he breaks with the church, the aristocrats come in and they support him because they want the Church property. So at a certain point. What's he doing now? He's going in. This is the Protestant party. They're going in, they're going into convents, and they're dragging the nuns out. They're dragging the nuns out. He's writing the Archbishop of Mainz saying, you can have the best, prettiest nun of the lot if you join the Reformation Party. Party. What do you call a man who offers up women to men for sexual services? A pimp. That's what it was. And so what does he do? He cannot contain this anymore. He caves in. He marries Katharina von Borre, another nun. They both break their vows to do this, okay? Everybody's talking about this. And he's writing to other priests who have broken their vows and married nuns. And he writes. Her nickname was Kete in German. And he called her kete, which is a German word for chain. Sometimes he called her catena, which is a Latin word for tain. My catena greets your Catena. He'd write this ironically to the priest, so he doesn't leave it at that. That's bad enough. What he did is he made a theological principle out of his own vice. And it was called de servo arbitrio of the enslaved. In other words, I had no choice in the matter. God did it. God rules my life completely. And he introduced this idea of sola fide, sola gratia, sola scriptura. They become the pillars of the Reformation. One of them is sola gratia. By grace alone, you're saved by grace alone. The Reformers did this. Calvin was the main moving force behind the Puritans in New England, he believed in sola gratia. What did they do? You say you're saved by grace alone. At the same time, you cut off everyone from the source of grace, which is the sacraments of the Catholic Church. There's no other source of grace. That's the way Jesus Christ founded that church. And so now you've got Americans in this position. England, they had their own issues, but that's a civilized country that have thousands of years of tradition. They come to America and everybody goes crazy. There are periodic episodes of craziness in America. The Salem witch trials, a mass hysteria, a moral panic. And then you had the Great awakening in the 1730s. What is going on here? There are people who. They can't get rid of the guilt. They can't get rid of the guilt. I've done something wrong. I don't know what to do about it. So we have these emotional scenes where you're rolling on the ground. The genius who understood the. This was Nathaniel Hawthorne. And the great book that nailed this was the Scarlet Letter. And the premise of the Scarlet Letter is what? You're a minister. Now, you had to be a saint, a visible saint on earth to be a member of that church, the Puritan Church. And now you've got the minister who has to even be higher, a higher level. And the minister committed adultery. Now what do you do when you're saved and you commit adult adultery? That's Hawthorne's understanding. The genius of Hawthorne. To understand and nail that whole psychological problem in one piece of literature had a tremendous effect during the middle of the 19th century, which is the time when everybody in America basically turned away from Calvinism. And you went in the exact opposite direction to Emerson. The religion of nature. Emerson wrote. Emerson hated Calvinism. Okay? Thoreau hated Calvinism. Hawthorne hated Calvinism. Melville hated Calvinism. Okay? So Emerson writes an essay called Self Reliance. Wait a minute. In the middle of Self Reliance, he's saying the only thing that's important is the integrity of your own mind. He got that from Satan in Milton. The mind is its own place. He's quoting that. And then someone says, it's in Self Reliance, famous essay, the man says, well, what if that's from the devil? And Emerson said, well, if it's from the devil, then I am of the devil's party. So he repudiated everything about Calvin except that satanic gist of what it was. I am of the devil's party. You can't tell me what to think. I am of the Devil's party. That's had incredibly far reaching effect on the American psyche. So what do we have? You know, ain't no, no one going to tell me what to do. This is the kind of rebellious spirit that got ingrained in America and I think that's, that's what's reaching its culmination now.

E. Michael Jones (68:35)

It's interesting because I, I guess, had never considered the city of God versus the city of man, obviously before I had begun reading this book. And one of the things that made me pivot away from Protestantism was really just a comment that someone left on my YouTube video where he, after a debate that I was hosting between my husband Ali Stuckey, said that Protestantism found a perfect home in America where there is no authority and you get, everything gets to be your truth, my truth, my truth, my truth, which is why there's so many different versions of the Protestant faith. And I realized that if you don't believe in authority, first and foremost politically, that would make you a leftist. And, you know, you become your own God essentially and you can decide for you what actually works and take what you want and leave what you want. And then it becomes again my truth. And so it's interesting though to see that, yeah, if there isn't an authority, because that is one of the things that they hate the most is the concept of a Pope. A concept of, it's like, no, anybody can be saved. Any person can just do this by themselves and figure it out themselves on their own journey as long as they abide by the Bible. And it is in that regard, and I think it's called Protestant protest for a reason. It is in that regard, I think, fair to ask the question about whether or not that does mean this is the city of man, right? This is the city of man where man is not getting rid of themself to subjugate themselves to God, but rather are not like finding themselves and trying to figure out what elements of themselves that they want to keep. And I think as you see the divisions which seem to never end, I think now, just now there's been a major split and people are saying, well, women can be priests. I think that just happened. One of the megachurches decided to split and say, actually the Bible says women can be priests. And I just think next thing it's going to be, well, there's nothing in the Bible that prevents there being, you know, homosexuals. And you're seeing that in the Methodist Church of trans flags waving, just a different version of the truth. The truth. The truth and no official authority on what the truth is.

E. Michael Jones (70:35)

Right. You have the three mainstream churches, the Anglicans, the Presbyterians and the Methodists have three churches in South Bend, Indiana. They were the people that basically, especially the Methodists, had a huge, huge impact on the west when Indiana was the West. They're all flying gay flags. Well, wait a minute. This is a bad marketing strategy, if nothing else. Why are they doing it? I think it's probably because the clergy are, to a large extent, homosexuals. And people don't. They can't. They just can't bring themselves to go to the church anymore. You know, like the old. We were. A friend of mine, his mother was buried out of the Presbyterian Church. There's a gay flag flying out of there. She didn't believe in that. She was kind of betrayed by her own church. This is what I mean by the evaporation of Protestantism. It's evaporating as we speak. And those three are. The three mainstream denominations are an example of what I'm talking about.

E. Michael Jones (71:31)

What do you think is going to happen in America now that we're kind of coming upon this turning point? Out of nowhere, people are starting to wake up and starting to realize that the battle is spiritual. Even people that believe themselves to be atheists are now commenting and saying, I'm starting to go to church. I'm starting to read the Bible. I'm starting to recognize that the answers are there. Where does this end? Because I would just say that the more people awaken, it seems, the more the authorities come in because they realize they've got it.

E. Michael Jones (71:58)

You're absolutely right. So it's going to come down to Catholicism or Satanism. It's that simple. What are the options? It's the City of God and the City of Man. It's love of God to the extinction of self, or love of self to the extinction of God. It's all these intermediary things are going to just pass away. They're all going to evaporate, and you're going to be faced with that choice. And exactly, that's the choice that at that time, Hawthorne was faced with. People don't realize that the fundamental axis is east and west in America. And the Men of Letters all went to Europe and they all. When they went to Europe, they go to Rome, and when they go to Rome, they go to St. Peter. And when you go to St. Peter's you guys, this guy from this little New England village, clapboard, white clapboard churches, and you look at something this magnificent and Beautiful. And you're immediately confronted with the thought, if this is beautiful, maybe it's true. Because truth and beauty are transcendentals. And this is exactly what happened to Hawthorne. Hawthorne made money. He wrote a biography of Franklin, Pennsylvania. Franklin Pierce made him consul in Liverpool. He earned money there, took his entire family to Rome. God brought him to Rome. God brought him to St. Peter's and God brought him to the confessional. This is the man who wrote the book about America, unable, the Puritan, unable to go to confession. And here he's facing the confessional, and suddenly the door opens and an Italian walk walks out. I mean, what. What were you expecting? And he's upset. You can see he's upset. So he said it should have angels running the machine. This is in the marble form. The last thing he wrote. He couldn't do it. And I'm trying to. I'm trying to figure out why would. Why wouldn't. I think there was some type of ethnic problem here, because in order to become a Catholic in the 1840s, basically had to become either Irish or German. He's not Irish. German. You know, what am I going to do? There was some block here. But what did happen is his daughter Rose became a Catholic, and she not became a Catholic, she became a nun. And then she created a home for people who were dying, indigents who were dying of incurable cancer. So if you had money and you were dying of curable cancer, she wouldn't take you. You had to be indigent, dying of cancer. She did that for her entire life after she converted. Converted. And at the end of, she prayed to God that God would take her in her sleep. And he did. God took her in her sleep. She worked doing that until the day she died. And now she's on her way to begun the canonization. I'm saying this has always been part of American history, and it's always been submerged. And now we can't submerge this anymore because that whole middle point here of these Protestant churches who were essential to the founding and the creation of this culture, they're all disappeared, appearing. And the gist of what they were is remaining. It's Satanism. It's rebellion. I'm not trying to say this to offend anyone. I'm just trying to say historically, if you go back to John Milton, he's the poet of the Puritans, and the hero of that poem is Satan. And there's this rebellious spirit that has been part of American life ever since the Puritans got Got here.

E. Michael Jones (75:19)

So what would you recommend to the very many men and some women as well, many women as well, who are struggling with pornography, giving themselves into the sex industry, obviously knowing that they are spiritually in conflict. But it's a way to make money and, you know, it's easy money for women. That's why, why they really give themselves to the sex industry. And for men, obviously, they're being compelled by the libido and they're just willing to spend all of this money to have access to their addiction and fundamentally being weakened. What would you recommend to them is.

E. Michael Jones (75:50)

The tool you have to stop watching pornography? There's no question about it. Now how you stop watching it is another, another problem. There are, I know there are groups that kind of can coach you how to stop this thing. You've got to find some way to stop it. Now that's some guys just stop because I told them it was a form of control, hey, I'm not going to be controlled anymore. And they stop, stop. Sometimes it's an addiction that's really difficult to stop. And so we're here at a fundamental, fundamental issue here. Can you get through this life without supernatural help? Can you do it on your own? Can you be like Emerson and say it's just self reliance? I don't think you can. I don't think you can. I think you need help. The help is known as grace. And grace comes from the sacraments. And so there was a time when Thoreau wrote a Walden Pond, famous American thing, and he said, you know, if you go into nature, you're meeting up with God. That's true, that's true. Because God created nature. And then he takes it a step further and he says, a morning in spring is like the forgiveness of sins. No, I'm sorry, I love mornings in spring. But that's not the forgiveness of sin. There's only one, one source for you when you say there is forgiveness of sin is what Jesus Christ said to Peter. He said, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church. And the gates of hell will not prevail against it. And whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven. That's the only reason anyone has an idea that there is forgiveness of sin. And so I'm saying, if you need that supernatural help, it's the there but. And we all need it. I mean, Orestes Brownson converted to Catholicism. He said, look, you can't expect Americans to be faithful to their wives because they don't get married with sacramental marriage. They don't have the grace. This is the whole hidden story of American history that Hawthorne understood and exposed. And we have to relearn it. I think so. I wish I could tell you that, you know, you buy this, my 12 step program, and I will guarantee you that I, E. Michael Jones, will save you from every sin you ever committed. And I can't do it. I can't do it. There's only one person who did it. Jesus Christ commissioned the church to do it. And that's why the church has the sacrament of confession.

E. Michael Jones (78:13)

Amazing. Absolutely amazing. Well, can you tell everybody where they can pick up your book, Libido DOMINANDI?

E. Michael Jones (78:20)

Yes. The second edition is now available@fidelitypress.org do not go to Amazon. If you go to Amazon, someone will charge you $1,000 for that book. You can get it for 38 dol go to fidelitypress.org that's where it's available.

E. Michael Jones (78:38)

I'm telling you guys, go get this, because I. I've only just begun it, and it's absolutely fascinating. It's not a book that you can put down. And it ties in together every theme that we've been discussing on the podcast. Emichael Jones, the ADL man. SBLC man.

E. Michael Jones (78:53)

Are you numbers? Are you number one or am I number one?

E. Michael Jones (78:56)

No, no, no, no, no, you are. You've been on the list longer.

E. Michael Jones (78:58)

No, you're not.

E. Michael Jones (78:59)

It's very clear. It's very clear. Once you're on their list, no one should ever listen to you. You. But thank you so much. I definitively plan to have you back because you've written so many books about fascinating topics that I'm just really coming to terms with now. And it has brought me back to the church. Like, the only answer in understanding anything that's happening in the world is to recognize that it's a spiritual battle. It's always been a holy war. And the only way that you're going to be able to guard yourself against it is by recognizing that and pursuing truth. And the truth is Jesus Christ.

E. Michael Jones (79:29)

Amen, sir.

E. Michael Jones (79:29)

Sister, Amen.