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- [00:01]
Candace Owens
All right, guys. It's only taken me six years to book this next guest. Very difficult person to book, but I made it happen. George Farmer. Welcome to Candace.
- [00:09]
George Farmer
Hi, honey.
- [00:10]
Candace Owens
How come it's taken? Why do you never come on my show? I try so hard to get you on the show, and it's been six entire years since you've done that.
- [00:19]
George Farmer
You know, your skills are in front of the camera, mine are behind them.
- [00:23]
Candace Owens
Yeah, exactly.
- [00:24]
George Farmer
I like to let you do your thing. I do my thing. We do our own things, you know?
- [00:27]
Candace Owens
Well, I have a list of questions that the Internet would like to ask you. Don't worry, it's not too bad. I will start. Obviously, people love to hear the story about how we met, because it was, I wouldn't even say a bit like a rom com. It actually was a rom com featuring Russell Brand, who does a lot of rom coms. He's actually known for a lot of rom coms. And so for those people that don't know the story, it was a wintry night in London. I was filming a podcast with a very communist Russell Brand. By the way, I would like to be very clear. He was very far on the left, and it was his under the Skin podcast. Supposed to be for like an hour. It ended up being three hours of filming. And you had a friend, Paul Joseph Watson, who was a mutual friend, but I had never met him. And he and I were supposed to meet up, to finally meet off of the Internet, just to say hi to each other. And he never told me that he had actually organized an entire dinner for me and for Charlie Kirk with about 30 people. So I had no idea that there was a dinner being thrown in my honor in which he kind of pawned it off to you to organize a dinner. So I arrive three hours late. My assistant informs me that there are a bunch of people waiting for me. I get out of Russell Brand's house, and I was very apologetic when I arrived three hours late, because I like to be punctual. And I sat next to you and you basically said nothing to me, correct?
- [01:52]
George Farmer
Yeah, I did what I've done for the past six years, I just said nothing.
- [01:57]
Candace Owens
And it worked.
- [01:58]
George Farmer
And it worked.
- [01:59]
Candace Owens
It absolutely worked.
- [01:59]
George Farmer
And then you married me, so I have no idea why.
- [02:02]
Candace Owens
Eighteen days later, we get engaged. And I think the first question that a lot of my audience members have is, how did your family and friends react to that? This American girl just breezes on in, and then you're like, hey, I'm going to get married to this person that I barely know after 18 days.
- [02:22]
George Farmer
Well, most of my friends thought that I was crazy. And I'm still not sure they've recovered from that opinion. But the family took it pretty well. I mean, my parents were pretty. They again were like a bit kind of like, okay, this is very crazy, very odd, but sort of we'll go along with it and see where this goes. And then they met you. I think that was a big game changer for a lot of people because when they meet you, they're always as in awe as I was when I first met you. But they were very receptive. And after a while, I think everyone realized that it was real. And that was the really big hurdle to get over was that everyone initially thought, is this crazy? Is this just like a fire flung romance? And then it was like, okay, this is actually real, this is happening. They're going to get married. And then they kind of moved, the mood sort of moved to acceptance and people got on board and then they realized how great you were and then everyone was pretty happy about it.
- [03:23]
Candace Owens
Did you have any friend who, unbeknownst to me was like, listen, mate, as they say in the uk, listen, mate, you are making the, a really bad decision. The worst decision possibly of your life.
- [03:35]
George Farmer
No, not really. I mean, is that a credit to.
- [03:39]
Candace Owens
Them or a discredit to them?
- [03:40]
George Farmer
Yeah, probably. I think it's a credit to them. Yeah. I mean, I think our best, my best man, Nick, who you obviously know very well, he. His original reaction was, you're crazy and this is never going to happen. That was really. When I first met you, like on the first, the first night that we first met, people were very. When I went back from that night, I was like, okay, you know, there's this girl, very interesting, like this could go somewhere, all that kind of stuff. And his initial reaction was, you're completely insane. But then by, you know, come January, come February, come March of that of the next year, which was 2019, when we got married, it was like, yeah, this is happening. And this is good, this is good, everyone likes you.
- [04:28]
Candace Owens
I remember for me, I didn't have anybody in my personal life that was saying, don't do this. But I definitely had people in my professional life who were saying, I will never forget this. We have to call him out, right? We do. Charlie. Charlie Kirk. Charles Kirk, if you are watching right now. But obviously he was very young and both of us were just so absorbed with politics and we were traveling together everywhere. Charlie really was like a little brother to me. And I remember he's just like, you just cannot do this. You don't know this person. And then one of the donors to Turning Point USA was telling him it would be very bad for my brand. And that really stuck with me that one of the donors said it would be very bad for your brand for you to like not marry a black guy from the projects or something like that. And I was sort of rebutted.
- [05:17]
George Farmer
Do you think it's being bad for your brand?
- [05:18]
Candace Owens
Sort of rebutted?
- [05:19]
George Farmer
That's a real question, I think. Is it bad for your brand now?
- [05:22]
Candace Owens
Well, I do not typically consider who I'm going to marry as a brand decision, which is what I explained to you.
- [05:29]
George Farmer
Maybe you should.
- [05:29]
Candace Owens
Yeah. But yeah, we got married and we proved the naysayers wrong. It's been a very, a lot of learning experience. And I think another question that a lot of people have is what is the most difficult part about being married to Candace Owens?
- [05:47]
George Farmer
How long have we got? Well, I like to joke with you and you know that I tell you this joke, so really this is just for the audience. But I like to joke that there are many different women I'm married to because I'm never quite sure who I'm going to get in one day. So it's like someday I'm going to get one personality and the next day it's this personality. And then you've got your investigative journalist hat on and then you've got your mother's hat on and then you've got your Catholic hat on. So there's a few hats that you're wearing at any one point in time. So it's always fun. I wouldn't say that's difficult. It's really just a joy of who you are as a person.
- [06:27]
Candace Owens
You're being kind. It's also been a tremendous challenge and I think personally to you because you're so different from the environment that you're now stuck into, which is to say, yeah, that's true, you are an Englishman. You like to retreat, sort of read your texts. A quiet place with a cigar.
- [06:46]
George Farmer
Yep, this is all correct.
- [06:47]
Candace Owens
This is all very correct. And then you marry this sort of loud American. You don't like taking pictures, you don't like being seen or photographed. And then you marry this loud American. And so you've really had to adjust, I think would be the correct word.
- [07:02]
George Farmer
Yeah, it is. The meeting of the two cultures is perfected in our marriage, I would say. Yeah. The bombastic Americanism versus the retired English Persona has definitely been like fine tuned. But I think that, like, I mean, I enjoy. I love America. I mean, it goes without saying, but I love the American spirit and culture. And you obviously embody much of that. It's. It's much more exciting in so many ways than England. And that's not to say that I don't love England, because I do love England. But there are parts about England which really are just quite, like, melancholic, I would say, and quite nostalgic. And that is not who I am necessarily, as a person. I sort of grown tired of that by the time that we had met. I was much more, like, needing to reinvigorate my life and to, like, find the next big project to move on to. And kind of not saying that America was a big project, but it is definitely a different culture. It's one which I really enjoy, you.
- [08:00]
Candace Owens
Know, which is funny, because those are the sort of the elements that I really loved about England that I really fell in love with, like, sort of the.
- [08:06]
George Farmer
You're as attracted to the opposite.
- [08:08]
Candace Owens
Yeah. England, particularly London, is a bit of a Jane Austen novel. And it's one of those, at least for me, one of the cities that actually, like, lives up to the hype. And so I used to.
- [08:21]
George Farmer
I think it's, like, it's faded a bit now, you know, under Sadiq Khan, who's a pretty terrible mayor.
- [08:27]
Candace Owens
But many people say that it's changed a lot.
- [08:30]
George Farmer
It was. Had a kind of peak age, but, like, it is beautiful. It's a great city. It's a nice city, but it's also. It's changed a lot. But England as a whole, like, is very beautiful country. I mean, it's filled with beautiful, you know, history, tradition, churches, culture. The universities, the ancient universities like Oxbridge, Durham, you know, they're wonderful places to visit. But it is in danger of kind of slipping into that, like, European psychosis of just becoming a beautiful museum, you know, and there's no, Like. There's nothing invigorating about it. It needs to be revitalized. Like, you actually need to have something which is growing and producing goods and making society work, you know, and kind of. It's slipping.
- [09:18]
Candace Owens
Yeah, I think you've definitely made. Made me appreciate a lot of those aspects of American culture, because there is something about England that is quite parochial, and it seems like it's never changing, which is beautiful in many ways, but also sometimes not because you want things to change. Not necessarily to give up traditions, not necessarily to give up beauty and architecture and taking your time to make things, which I think America could learn from. But definitely, I think in terms of their willingness to confront certain issues, I would probably say I find the English to be incredibly polite, which I think can be very frustrating. I would imagine can be very frustrating for people that live there. So for you coming to America, moving your entire life here after being a person that's born and raised in London and has lived in this sort of quiet, sleepy, melancholic culture, what has been the biggest change or culture shock?
- [10:16]
George Farmer
The bacon, obviously, the bacon, which is infinitely superior in America. I would say that I think it's really important to be honest about your own country and culture. American bacon is just much better than English.
- [10:31]
Candace Owens
And burgers.
- [10:32]
George Farmer
Yep, the burgers too. Driving on the right hand side of the road is the right side of the road to drive on. Definitely having now driven a lot of miles on both sides of the road. But there are other things. Like, you know, people dress better in England. There's just no doubt about it, they dress better. What would I say is the biggest culture shock in general, though? I would say that there is definitely an aspect of what I just mentioned which is kind of that willingness to get up and change things and do things, which is really powerful in America. Like, that is definitely the. That is one of the biggest culture shocks. Like, and there are other people who have said the same thing. There is, you know, I was reading something the other day where somebody who previously lived in Germany moved to America. And they basically said, before I moved to America, my parent, my father worked in a nonprofit and my mother worked for the federal government of Germany. And so no one in my life, and no one that I really knew in my life had ever worked in a for profit business. Like, everyone had either been subsidized by other people or subsidized by the state. And so when you move to America, like for me, that was one of the hugest things. Like you just kind of move over here, there's people just doing things the whole time. And it is a. It is a culture of activity and entrepreneurial spirit. And so that for me was a huge eye opener when I moved here. I would also say that the other big thing which has kind of faded in my acknowledgment of how revolutionary it is in some ways is just because it's now, I'm now part of that culture in America. So I've become less receptive to how big it is. But I remember how big it is when I go back to the UK is faith. Because in America, faith is a Default. It's almost something which people open with in conversations. Particularly obviously where we live in Tennessee. You will come across people the whole time saying, what church do you go to? And I was listening to a faith based podcast or I was reading the Bible or something like that. And in Britain, I would argue it is one of the most advanced secular cultures in the world. And you talk about faith in the public domain in Britain and people look at you as if you've got five heads. And it's really just very demoralizing. It's quite, it's quite hostile really, to actually organized faith. And there's a difference between continental Europe and the uk. Continental Europe has predominantly been Catholic and there's much more of a kind of hardcore Catholicism in places like France and Spain. Obviously Italy is completely separate because that's where the home of the church is. But you know, you've got these countries in Europe where there's kind of a hardcore Catholic movement. And so if you say like, I go to mass every day or I, you know, take my faith life seriously, and you said to one of those people, they would be very receptive to that. And there's a whole branch of society which is kind of built around preserving the faith. But in Britain, the Anglican Church, which is the state church, is very, it's very liberal. I mean, it's incredibly progressive. And as a result, most people have, most of British society have no real faith life. And so faith in the public domain is just not something talked about. And so over here, you come over here. It's amazingly refreshing to be in America where people are so open not just to the idea of talking about faith, but so open to learning about faith, so open to talk that conversion experiences happen the whole time over here, whereas they're kind of rare in the uk. But yeah, that's probably one of the biggest culture shocks, I'd say.
- [14:18]
Candace Owens
Yeah, that's interesting because it's a bit of a paradox when you consider the fact that if you could attribute the beauty and the timelessness and the inspiration of Europe to anything, it would be Christianity. And so to hear so many people say that they've abandoned those roots, it's just, it's interesting how they've landed upon that. But that's a perfect segue because obviously one of the biggest questions that we get about you, or the most frequent questions that we get about you is about your faith. Not exactly a usual scenario for someone to leave the Anglican Church and become a Catholic. Least of all when they were actually raised with a strong Faith. So I guess can you just speak a little bit to your faith journey, speaking about your household, how you were raised, whether your parents had faith, have faith, and then let's get into your decision to we say in America study theology. You would say to read theology in the UK at Oxford.
- [15:18]
George Farmer
Yeah. So I mean my parents are both evangelical Christians. Um, and as you know, my sisters are also like, they have a mixed faith life. One of them is very devout, the other one is not. I was raised in a home which is still to this day, like my parents house would be very built around the Bible, would be built, very built around a daily prayer life, a weekly church attendance. Like that would be something that is just Bible studies, like very regular, involved in the church. Faith was a huge part of our life growing up. You quickly became aware of that in England. Just going back to my previous answer about how secular it is, because when you say that you go to church on Sunday in the uk, that is not normal. And so as a result, by the time that you're cognizant of kind of having that discussion with your peers at a very young age, like 7, 8, 9, 10 at a boys school in London, you become very aware that faith is different. That for me was probably the starting block because then what happened was I started to become more interested in why I was different. Like I started to become more interested in why my family had a faith life, had a religious life, versus the rest of the kind of secular schoolboys who didn't. And so for me that kind of started a long journey of becoming quite interested in theology and faith. By the time that I was 12, 13, 14, I was very aware that faith was a huge part of how I saw the world. So it just, it's different. I mean, if you are brought up in a faith filled home, you will realize that faith religion has a huge impact on the way people are shaped. And that was equally as being played out in the UK during my formative years by radical Islam, as it was being played out by my own faith formation in Christianity. Because at the end of the Cold War, of course, we had this great 10 year window where historians and philosophers, famously Francis Fukuyama said, this is the end of history. Neoliberal capitalism has won. We will never see the rise of another ideology again. In the same way that communism and capitalism had to face off against each other. And in the early 2000s, that couldn't have been proved more wrong because this was when the rise of radical Islam happened, and particularly in Europe, this was felt very Strongly. And so for me, I was witnessing things like London bombings going on in my teenage years versus my own faith formation in Christianity. And this made me realize by quite a young age that faith, religion is just a huge part of people's life. You know, it is a huge part. It is almost the greatest force which drives. It is the greatest force which drives the world.
- [18:34]
Candace Owens
And I would also say the lack of faith as well.
- [18:37]
George Farmer
Yeah, yeah. A faith in nothing. Yeah, exactly.
- [18:39]
Candace Owens
Because they always replace it with a faith in something else.
- [18:41]
George Farmer
Yeah.
- [18:42]
Candace Owens
Which is kind of an interesting way of looking at it.
- [18:44]
George Farmer
Yeah, yeah. I mean, in the UK. And again, this is, this is because of the UK's advanced secular culture in some ways. You look at, you look at radical Islam in Europe. Well, what's, what's Islam reacting to? Like, why are so many young men in Europe being drawn to Islam? The reason being is because the void. It's the void. Nature abhors a vacuum. And so you've had the churches in Europe, whether it be the Catholic Church or the Protestant churches, they have stripped themselves of true theology. And the Catholic Church in Europe is as guilty as this of anyone else. You've had this progressive, weak, wishy washy liberal gospel being preached by every pastor under the sun. And then you've got this religion which crops up which shows affirmative action, absolute strength. These are the tenants which appeal to young men, particularly in Europe and of course in the Middle east, but, you know, predominantly in Europe. A lot of the radicalism within Europe is now homegrown. It's not being imported, it's being homegrown. And so this is the key, you know, driving force is the fact that theology, like Christianity in Europe, has been stripped of its actual truth, its eternal truth. And that's not to say that, okay, you know, there would be no conversion to Islam if Christianity was standing on its own two feet. But it's definitely the case that if you look at the uk, for example, you've got this progressive, weak Anglican church which is basically saying that, you know, left wing politics is good and, you know, the predominant role of the church is to care about the environment and, you know, all this kind of nonsense. And actually, of course, people don't just, they don't just want a social gospel. They want eternal truth and they want real faith. They want to be told, this is how you should live your life. Right? This is the real meaning of life. It's not just about, you know, the environment and net zero and whatever else that we're coming out with.
- [21:07]
Candace Owens
What you're talking about is really just the absence of authority and structure and people actually crave that in the end. It reminds me of when I hosted Andrew Tate. I want to say it was a couple years ago, maybe it was last year. But he similarly said I pressed him on why he left Christianity. And the answer he gave, which was very interesting for me to consider, was he basically said Christianity became weak and Christians don't defend themselves. They allow people to disrespect Jesus Christ. And how are people supposed to be drawn to something that has been weak and obviously startling, upsetting to hear? But he is echoing, I think what you are speaking to, which is that there does need to be a return to a truer faith.
- [21:49]
C
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- [22:51]
Candace Owens
So you're raised in an evangelical household. You are introduced to faith your entire life.
- [22:57]
George Farmer
Yeah.
- [22:58]
Candace Owens
You are drawn to it at a. I would say rather it's very young, 13 years old. So that's how you are. And when did you make the decision? I'm actually going to study this at Oxford, like I'm going to. I actually want to continue this pursuit with theology.
- [23:15]
George Farmer
Yeah.
- [23:17]
Candace Owens
Was it right away, did you consider a second subject?
- [23:20]
George Farmer
It was. I sort of thought about history at one point. But it was quite clear to me, I think, that theology was the answer. You know, I was very interested in it. As I said, I was just very, very interested in it. I. By the time I was 15, I had begun the conversion experience that I then went through for the next five years to Catholicism, which culminated in me converting when I was at Oxford.
- [23:43]
Candace Owens
Let's slow this part down because this is pretty big, obviously, especially as, like I said, someone raised Anglican. So you're at Oxford, you're studying theology. What moved you as an evangelical to Catholic faith, which I imagine you were raised with a different understanding, a different perspective. Evangelicals do tend to hold a lot of, I would say, strong feelings against the Catholic faith both here and abroad.
- [24:12]
George Farmer
The. Of Babylon. No, that is, some, some evangelicals would say that. But it. Yes, of course. I mean, it was. I was brought up in a home where I think it was viewed with suspicion at best. Although, you know, to give my parents credit where it was due, they had always basically said that it was a personal relationship with Jesus which mattered more than anything else. And so, you know, my dad has frequent examples of Catholics he had spoken to who he definitely knew had personal relationships with Jesus. But generally speaking, the Catholic Church was perceived of as nominal. Like nominalism where people just went. They didn't really understand where they went. And filled with superstition was the two phrases that kind of stuck out.
- [25:02]
Candace Owens
Henry VIII may have had something to do with that.
- [25:04]
George Farmer
Well, for the corruption of the Catholic Church and started with him for sure, but it. With the persecution, actually, I should say. But basically, you know, smells and bells was a phrase that frequently stuck around in my head from when I was growing up, because that was how the Catholic Church was perceived. But for me, in part, there was kind of a numbers component to it. And this is just something which I think is how my brain works. But I didn't really understand how we could be saying that before 1517. We just had this big kind of black hole of Christianity from the time of the apostles until Luther crops up. And so for me that was like, okay, well, what's going on? Like, there must be some living faith in this 1500 year window, even if you want to call it like a 1200 year, 1300 year window, because for the first 200 years you have the kind of apostolic age. So what's going on in that period? And for me that was like a. Well, we're not just going to write off this entire period of history. And I'm also, I do like to challenge ideas and concepts and just figure out what's going on. And for me, I was like, okay, well, you've got doctors of the church, you've got some of the greatest minds ever, like Thomas Aquinas, ever in human history, who occupy this period, as well as countless popes whose writings have been imbibed and kind of consumed by Western civilization since. So what's happening with these guys? Are they Christians? Are they not Christians? And so that was really kind of where it began for me. That was the early church. The first 700 years was what I then went on to study. But that was kind of really where I began. My inquiry was like, this doesn't make any sense. I just don't believe that there are no Christians here. So let's figure out what's going on. And so that was kind of where I started. And I had this great priest at school who was actually an Anglican priest, but he ended up becoming a Catholic as well. But he was very good at rebutting many of the preconceived ideas that I had about Catholicism. And so he started to really kind of challenge me on a lot of my positions. And that was kind of where it all began.
- [27:25]
Candace Owens
Okay, and was there a singular moment that you can recall in your mind when you went, this is it. I'm going to. I'm actually going to convert to the Catholic faith?
- [27:35]
George Farmer
I wouldn't say. Not really, no. I mean, there was a moment. I remember the first time that I went into a Catholic church with the. There were two. I guess there were two moments. Probably there was once where I was in a Dominican monastery in Croatia, where I very much felt that there was a calling. Know, it was. In some ways it was. I know this is a weird thing to say, but it was kind of the silence of the place. You know, I just felt. I'm drawn to silence. I think, you know that. But I like the silence. I like the reflection time. It's like the early church fathers, who were the desert fathers, have always had an appeal to me because they wanted to lead this contemplative life, studying the Lord, like, in silence. And so for me, it was something about the silence of this church, which I just found very kind of inspiring, overwhelming in some ways. So that was one. That was one moment I think I was about. I must have been about 15 or 16 at that time. And then there was another moment, which was the first time that I went into a church, and that was in London, Westminster Cathedral. And I sat at the back and I prayed a rosary for the first time in my life and I didn't really know what I was doing, but I. I just wanted to make that first step. And then when I did that and I prayed before the Blessed Sacrament, which was also a huge kind of. For me, that was something which I had really begun to appreciate, like, this is Christ. This is not just bread, this is Christ.
- [29:16]
Candace Owens
And it was not an easy thing to tell your parents. In fact, you didn't.
- [29:19]
George Farmer
I didn't. That's right. Yeah.
- [29:21]
Candace Owens
Most kids are like hiding drugs from their parents. You're hiding a rosary from your parents.
- [29:25]
George Farmer
This was like. Yeah, I was very nervous about it and I didn't really know I was confirmed. And then I had. And then I sort of carried on living. And for me it was something that I didn't want them to kind of know about, start off with. And why? Because my parents were big, big time evangelicals. Really.
- [29:46]
Candace Owens
And what did you think their reception would be to that? That you kind of wanted to keep the peace, so to speak?
- [29:53]
George Farmer
Yeah, I did want to keep the peace. I guess it was quite cowardly of me now if I think about it, but it was. I guess I was sort of afraid of one of those kind of medieval reactions of being like, get out of my house and crying and, you know, I don't know. I don't know, to be honest, what I thought the reaction would be at the time. I probably thought it was something going to be something like that, kind of quite dramatic and arguments and explosions and all that kind of stuff.
- [30:21]
Candace Owens
But how did they find out or how did you tell them?
- [30:24]
George Farmer
I actually don't know how they found out. They. They found out, but they never. But then they confronted me about it and we had a conversation, but they already knew by that point, so clearly somebody else had told them.
- [30:35]
Candace Owens
We saw your. We saw your son.
- [30:37]
George Farmer
Yeah.
- [30:37]
Candace Owens
Walking up the steps to mass.
- [30:39]
George Farmer
Yeah, exactly. So I think they kind of knew that it was coming because I kept on talking about the Catholic Church and I sort of started talking a lot about that and I was talking more and more and more about it and I think they kind of figured something was going on. But then when it actually happened, I didn't tell them and then they confronted me about it later on.
- [31:00]
Candace Owens
So now that you're in America and I think a lot of. There's a lot of faith discussion happening now, what would you say your perspective is? Because this is something that you and I discussed, There are these slight differences. It's kind of difficult to speak to regarding the way that certain topics emerge in the UK and certain topics emerge in America, like we are brother and sister. But there are some differences, you know what I mean? And one of the things that I had kind of spoken to you about was even evangelicalism, faith is so different. Like when I think of your parents who are evangelicals, compared to evangelicals in America, it just feels different, you know, it just feels very different. So what would you say are some of the differences that you can speak to in, I guess, whether it's religion, faith, or another topic when it comes to politics across the pond as opposed to here on a variety of subjects? Abortion. Faith.
- [31:51]
George Farmer
Yeah. I mean, faith obviously is one that I've spoken about already. I mean, abortion is something which is an interesting one because again, abortion is not really discussed in the uk. It's kind of a settled topic, which over here it is very much not. I mean, the funny part is that the perspective of many Brits to America and, you know, I'm sure there'll be people in the comments who will be like, I'm British and I disagree with you on this, but generally speaking, the perspective of Britain is that America is kind of a bit crazy, you know, and Europe as a whole, Europeans tend to, you know, and I don't agree with this, but this is often the way they tend to look down their noses quite a bit at American culture. Like, Europeans think of themselves as quite highfalutin, you know, and they kind of are like, oh, you know, sort of Americans. They're crazy Americans. But of course, really what that actually is a reflection of is the freedom of the intellectual mind. Right. And actually the reason that they say it's crazy is because Americans have this great inquisitive attitude to things. They don't accept standard norms they are willing to challenge. And that confrontational attitude then reflects itself in the way that they debate topics. So abortion, like, take that as an example. Americans are not willing to just those who are pro life and even those who are pro choice. Neither side are just willing to accept the standardized norm. They are prepared to fight for whatever they believe. And that is the same on other topics, such as vaccines, for example, which I know is something that you and I talked about when we first got married. You know, in Britain, the vaccine schedule is just accepted by everybody and nobody really talks about it. You know, I think I give the illustration that when we first got married, you sort of asked what I thought about it, and I. My answer was kind of like, well, it's the same as sort of what I think about Tuesdays, you know, Just like it happens. I mean, who cares kind of thing. And over time, you know, obviously you and I have talked extensively about these, and. And that's changed my mind about a lot of things. But also, it's. It's been very interesting to see how Americans fight for this particular topic.
- [34:03]
Candace Owens
Something that will be a tab start as a taboo, then become a mainstream discussion in America.
- [34:07]
George Farmer
Yeah.
- [34:07]
Candace Owens
And that's just thanks to Americans being willing to confront it. And that is a great examp because, I mean, I always knew I was not going to vaccinate my children. I was always adverse to vaccines. But.
- [34:18]
George Farmer
But you let me down the garden.
- [34:20]
Candace Owens
But I let you. Yes, exactly. I was like, what do you think about.
- [34:23]
George Farmer
Oh, yeah, what do you think about this?
- [34:24]
Candace Owens
And you're like.
- [34:25]
George Farmer
I was like, I don't really care. Like, what's the. What's the big deal?
- [34:27]
Candace Owens
And then I was like, hey, check this out. Hey, check this out. And then I think you were quite surprised by a lot of the research that I come upon. But it's so interesting because that was what, five, six years ago? And now we're looking at in America where Make America Healthy again is mainstreamed. RFK Jr is speaking about vaccines. He was really the only resource that I had when I kind of began my journey, and I can host a successful podcast talking about vaccines. And so it is interesting because you are correct, people do and sometimes rightfully stick down their noses to American culture because there are some aspects that we contribute. I mean, we gave the world the Kardashians. Right. We've got to sort of. There's definitely a downside to American culture, but you're correct in that the upside is that when we establish these norms, they're not necessarily established. We're willing to then say, wait a second, what are we doing? Why are we doing this? Let's revisit this. And we're willing to have the confrontation. Like, in a way, we're still the colonists.
- [35:29]
George Farmer
Yeah, you're still willing to fight and be aggressive, which is. And that's. But, you know, the worst thing is apathy. I mean, that's kind of the whole point. Right. It's like that's how Europe feels. It feels apathetic and lethargic and stagnant. And it's like you come over here and people are willing to fight. They're willing to stand up for what they believe in. You know, whether it's the Second Amendment through to the rate of tax, through to the Department of Government efficiency because they want to cut federal waste or vaccines or immigration or whatever it might be. People are willing to just fight for what they believe in, which is so refreshing. And that is. That is the greatest difference between Europe and between the uk because as I said, in the uk, there is this kind of. It's just. It's like a malaise. It's a malaise of the mind. You know, it's a malaise where people go, ah, you know, life's kind of okay, and, you know, we're fine, and we're just plodding along and all this kind of stuff. And it's an unwillingness to better oneself or to improve the world in a better position. And that's a terrifying place because then you just become subject to all kinds of tyranny.
- [36:39]
Candace Owens
Yeah, absolutely. And I think it's probably quite challenging because I always think of the other side. Like, my brain sort of naturally goes, okay, if it's being presented to me as the mainstream acceptable position, I want to see what the unacceptable position is and see where I land on various topics. And unfortunately for you, because I have this huge platform and I say what I think, people assume that it must mean that that's exactly what you think. But I'm kind of thinking out lo. Most of the time I'm going, okay, this is a new topic. I'm not sure what I think about it. And that must have an impact on your life, because people just assume that we agree on everything and we don't agree on everything. We don't agree on everything. So what are you talking about? Of course we.
- [37:22]
George Farmer
Yeah, of course we don't.
- [37:23]
Candace Owens
Of course we don't. And I think that's something people are very interested in, is how do we navigate that? Because I don't really think we think about how to navigate that. But it is a big thing that my position's kind of become the family position on things, because people just assume that this must be what you think.
- [37:42]
George Farmer
Yeah, I mean, I think my answer to that, when people have confronted me about this personally, is always like, well, do you agree with everything your wife says, or do you agree with everything your husband says? I mean, it would be weird if everyone thought with a hive mind because it would just become the de facto, like, that's weird. That implies that you share an absolute belief in everything. Right. Which is very odd. And I've never met anyone who has had that. So I think that what we agree on, because the individual topics themselves are highly nuanced and quite difficult to always reach conclusions on. But I think what we agree on is the process. And I think that that actually is more important than almost the end result, because the process that we. That you and I have is one of a dialectic, and it's one of a discussion, a process where we challenge each other on what we perceive to be, well, there is truth. We know that there is truth. We know that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and that is truth. And here's a transcendental. Truth is a transcendental. But the point being is that beyond that truth, how does that truth reflect itself in the world that we live in? That then becomes the process, the hermeneutic, if you want to call it that, through which we then try and establish other truth, and we don't always reach the same conclusions. Now, there are certain areas where, like, it would be very weird if we didn't. Like, we both obviously agree that, you know, abortion is wrong, and we both agree that the transgender lobby is far too powerful and, you know, is seeking malevolent aims and all these kind of things. There are plenty of areas where we obviously do reach the same conclusion, but there are other areas we don't, and that's fine. And also, it's a process which, like, I've changed my opinions about lots of things over the past few years and became a Catholic. Exactly.
- [39:38]
Candace Owens
Yeah. It is a willingness to migrate our positions and to realize that we were wrong. I think that is unique. But I don't appreciate, until people ask me about it, how fortunate we are to be in a relationship where we don't argue about people, just assume like, oh, my gosh, you must be arguing all the time about all of these things. And it's like, no, I think we're both too interested. And in the same way that I definitively thought I had all of the traditional mainline perspectives about the Catholic faith, worship Mary, blah, blah, blah. But I was too interested to just shut that down when I saw the way that it was moving in your life because you became increasingly more pious after we got married, which is really interesting, and we should speak about that a bit. But you did. I mean, you are not the same person that I married. And I say that as a tremendous compliment. Even though I thought you were perfect the day that we got married, I now look back and I'm like, wow, to see how much faith has moved you. What I say to people, I was so interested. I'm too interested to just go, okay, well, he's just dabbling in a heresy. You know what I mean? Or he's just worshiping Mary And I think society has grown so accustomed to being dismissive, whether you want to say, well, this person's a conservative, therefore they're racist. If this person doesn't want to vote for Kamala, therefore they're a sexist, this person has this perspective, therefore they're anti Semitic, whatever the name is. Transphobe of the day. I'm too curious. I'm too curious. When I see something, people moving in a certain direction, I want to follow them. Even if I find out that I don't agree, I want to see where they're going. And I think that is kind of what makes us such a unique partnership, is that we're genuinely curious. Going back to that movement in your life. So you were a Catholic when we got married. You were not an active Catholic when we got married. And now I would say you are an overactive Catholic. You are about as Catholic as it comes. You attend the mass multiple times a week, morning mass. You go to confession every week. What was it in your life that pulled you in that direction? Because I don't even. I still don't really comprehend it. Yeah, it was because you had to pray for me.
- [41:53]
George Farmer
Yeah, I was just overwhelmed with the inbound traffic that we had. I was just like, lord, please help me deal with this crazy woman that I'm married to. No, I'm joking. Of course it was. C.S. lewis writes that how absurd it is to think that the lost sheep can find the shepherd, you know, and the shepherd has to come and find the lost sheep. That's not to say that I was fully lost. I think I had probably emerged from my lost years. I did have lost years in my 20s. There was no doubt about it, where I had no faith life, so to speak. I mean, I maintained a comatosed heartbeat relationship with Christ inasmuch as I infrequently attended church, I prayed infrequently, I talked about God. I would have said that I was a Christian, but I was very weak in my faith. And, you know, really, for me, I think there were. There was. I mean, there were so many things which kind of pulled me in that direction. When we got married and I started. I mean, I think that the whole process of how we met and how we got married and all that kind of stuff was. It was a miracle. Like, I said that to you many times in those first six months. I was like, this is a miracle. There is just a. There is too much providential alignment here for me to unpack this all. I was kind of overwhelmed with it at the time, it was something which I just thought was beyond my comprehension. Like, I. I could. There were so many things that. I mean, even now, when I think about it, I mean, now the kind of mystery has faded, so the surprise is less than it was at the time. But there were things, like going back into decades ago where I could suddenly see having met you, that this had been the steps that God had put me on to get to this place in my life. You know, even the fact that, like, you know, I mean, I had a U.S. visa. And, like, all this kind of. I mean, it was just. It was. It was crazy, you know, at the time, like, what. What I unpacked in that. In that. In those six months, and just sort of how I thought about the world after that, that was definitely something where I felt the presence of God. And then there was a recognition, I guess, that the political debates we were in. I mean, there were many things, but the political debates we were in required truth. And that is something where I still, to this day, I think that if you're a conservative and. Or you call yourself a conservative, and that's. Even that word is kind of just a bit meaningless in some ways. But if you want to call yourself a conservative on the American right, you have to say, well, what are we seeking to conserve? And you have to say, well, what is fundamentally at the heart of everything that we believe in America or even in the west, in the world? What is the truth that we are aiming for? And particularly when you get to these kind of radical fringes of politics where you're talking about, you know, the ability of men and women to change their genders or even the LGBT lobby or whatever it might be. Like, whatever it is, whatever these topics are, you start to realize that truth itself is breaking down into, like, nothing. It's just being destroyed. Truth is being slowly chipped away at until the kernel of truth is so small that it's so difficult for people to find in those debates. So you have to start, okay, well, where's the starting point? Like, what do we go back to? What is the very heartbeat of truth? And the heartbeat of truth has to be absolute. It has to be an objective reality. And the objective reality for truth is Christ. And for me, I started realizing that the more and more and more I talked about politics, or the more we were involved in politics, or the more I saw witnessed politics, the more I realized that truth was absence. Like, truth was absent from those debates. And so for me, I was like, okay, well, I need to discover what truth is again. And I need to reform a relationship with that 15 year old boy inside of me who was really fascinated by theology. And for me, that was kind of, I was like, okay, this is the big missing part of my life. Like, this is where I don't really have a relationship with God like I used to when I was a teenager and in my very early 20s. So that was what drew me back. I was like, I need to discover what truth is again. And then that was the kind of the first stepping stone. And then it became very apparent to me that reengagement with my faith was something which I needed to do in a very serious way.
- [47:00]
C
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- [47:50]
Candace Owens
How has fatherhood played a role in that? If fatherhood has played a role in that, Becoming a father is a very big sea change, I think, for all men.
- [47:59]
George Farmer
Is it?
- [48:00]
Candace Owens
I don't know. Maybe some men are like, no, actually, no, it is.
- [48:04]
George Farmer
I mean, yeah, being a dad is huge. I mean, you want your, you want the best for your children, you know, and so I want, you know, I love my children. I mean, there are so many ways that fatherhood changes you. I mean, being a father both motivates you to be the best dad you can be. It wants you, it motivates you to stay alive, which is a funny thing to say. You become very aware. I became very aware within moments, within months of Our first child being born of my own mortality, I suddenly became very aware of like I'm going to die. And in a non morbid way, I think about death a lot. And that is because I think our world has lost the perception of death. We do everything to try and avoid talking about death. We don't want to cover the topic. And death is perceived of as this great. Like we mustn't talk about death, like we must avoid death. And even everything we do is kind of like in the constant culture of trying to extend life, like plastic surgery is trying to make yourself look beautiful because you are denying the aging process, you know, and even now, when we want, when we, when we're trying to, when we are inevitably going to die, we must be in control of that process through euthanasia. Like the UK has just voted through this assisted dying bill, which is a complete abomination. But this is how we are now perceiving death. We like have to control this process. And so natural death is perceived, is totally pushed to one side. But when I became a father, I suddenly realized that I was like, okay, I'm going to die and that's just going to happen. And I need to sort out my relationship with God and I need to be aligned with him. And not just be aligned with him, but I need to promote Christ in this world. And I need to promote Christ to my children. And I want them to be raised in the faith. So I want them to have the best relationship with God because that's the ultimate gift that I can give them. More so than money, more so than anything else. Like, you know, stability is good, of course it should be sought. But there are plenty of children who don't grow up in stable homes who I would still wish the same for them, that they know the truth of Jesus Christ.
- [50:21]
Candace Owens
I would think when you have an active. At least it's been the case for me. Like when you have an active spiritual life. I now kind of observe my past political perspectives as quite adolescent in a way. Like I look at me going around college campuses and speaking about these issues, having removed Christ from the conversation, or if I'm, you know, saying Christ on stage, it's not, it's not with the, not with the fullness of truth, I guess is the best way to say it. It's more kind of like a political talking point and truly believing at that time that I landed on truth. And I'm like a lowercase truth of, well, the left, the left hates family. Oh, the left hates social cohesion. Oh, the left loves racism because of this or that. Oh, the left, feminism, this. And then when you really arrive at the full picture, you're going, this is not a war against Trump. This is not a war against conservatives. It's always been a war against Christ. Nothing has changed. And to come to that understanding, it's been so refreshing and calming in a way where I don't crave politics. I talk about this with you often. I don't crave politics in the way that I used to crave it. And I think for a lot of people, politics does become a drug. They're addicted to the high life of politics, like being in the room, meeting people, and then you get into these rooms and people are drunks and addicts and people are sleeping with each other. And that's such a letdown. It's such a letdown because you wanna believe that you're really fighting for a sense of morality, but it's only a letdown. I think if you don't have a spiritual life and you don't have the perspective and a clarifying perspective that, you know, in the end, Christ wins. I think that's. That's really been something that has changed in me since you've sort of, you know, changed my world in terms of spiritualism.
- [52:11]
George Farmer
Yeah, I mean, I think. I mean, I think I would just to build on that. Christ has won. You know, it's not that he wins any. He's already won. And what that means is. But the Bible is very clear about this. And actually, the church has taught the same thing for ages, which is that this world, the devil is called the prince of this world. It's his domain. Right. In many ways, the world is his domain. And so in many ways, the armies of Christ are actually. We are the aliens here. And the Bible is kind of very clear about this. We are the aliens in this world because we are the people who are living a totally different life to the majority of the world. Like, Christianity has always been a religion on the outside. Yes, it became. It had its great kind of medieval heyday where it became the dominant, you know, temporal force, if you want to call it that. But of course, what happened during that time, like, the church was infected with secularism as well. Like, you know, there was much. There was corruption in it, and there was, you know, the seeking of power. And, you know, there were many. There were many problems with it. But, you know, really, Christians live as outsiders in this world. Like, our home is not this world. Our home is the world to come. And so, you Know, when you look at it from that perspective, you just say, okay, well, what's really going on? Like, the devil is fighting with everything that he has to destroy all good things in this world. That is what he is seeking to do at all times. And he never takes a day off. You know, it's like, you never get a day off. You are always vulnerable. You know, there's always this constant awareness, like, if I've learned one thing of being a Christian, it's that prayer is like oxygen. It is as needed on a daily basis as it is needed. You know, like oxygen or food. You know, you need it every day. Because the devil certainly doesn't care whether it's Tuesday and you're having the best day of your life or whether it's, you know, the day your father dies. It doesn't make a difference. It's the same battle. He will be there always seeking to destroy you. And so that, for me, is just something where I'm like politics, Forget it. I mean, like, politics is. It is tertiary. I mean, Andrew Breitbart famously said that, you know, politics is downstream of culture. And I would add that culture is downstream of faith. Because at the heart of whether it's conflict, global conflict, societal change, the rise and fall of ideologies, and this segues back into what we talked about at the beginning, the understanding of faith, the understanding of theology. Like, why was I interested in this? Because at the heart of everything is faith. And it's something which is, like, very misunderstood because the whole of our economic system is built of rationality. It's built off humans making rational choices at all times. Right? That's kind of our entire economic model. It's based off rational choices. But humans make what would be perceived of in economic terms as irrational choices the whole time. Like, it's not good necessarily. You could argue that it was. But there's a strong economic argument to say it's not good to give money away. Right? Why would you do that? You've earned all this value. You should accrue it to yourself. But Christianity teaches and proposes that you should do that, right? And actually that you should turn outwards and not just look inwards. And actually, of course, when you start doing that, the rewards do flow, because then you will become blessed beyond your. Beyond measure. You know, it's like you give things away. The Lord gives more to you.
- [56:01]
Candace Owens
Second to the Bible, what is your favorite book? That's a hard one.
- [56:07]
George Farmer
It is. All right, give me three Blackout by Candace Owens.
- [56:10]
Candace Owens
That was the right answer.
- [56:11]
George Farmer
I Love. There we go.
- [56:14]
Candace Owens
Well done, you.
- [56:16]
George Farmer
Thank you. I was being tested. You know, that's a really interesting.
- [56:20]
Candace Owens
I know one of them. Well, I guess if I was to say no one that has had served the most impact in your life, I would say. Well, you always tell me, I hope I'm right.
- [56:31]
George Farmer
I'm shrugged by that.
- [56:31]
Candace Owens
Yes. Okay. I was gonna say I'm rent. Okay.
- [56:33]
George Farmer
Yeah. So. But it's funny because that book, that book was very transformative in my early 20s, and when I was a young man, it was huge to me. You know, when I read out a Shrugged, I was. I was so overwhelmed by the diagnosis that it provided on our society and. But Ayn Rand, you know, she is a very complicated character. She's not somebody that now I would say I am like, I'd want to be affiliated with, because she's vehemently anti faithful. She's vehemently anti the church. She perceives of the church as superstition. Right.
- [57:13]
Candace Owens
Are you able to separate the author from their work?
- [57:16]
George Farmer
Well, the work itself, which is a.
- [57:18]
Candace Owens
Very deep question, by the way. Philosophically speaking, people ask us about movies. Can you separate the artist from their work?
- [57:23]
George Farmer
Yeah, the work itself. There are shadows within the work itself, which I would still want to say are relevant. Like, from an economic perspective, I think that Atlas Shrugged provides a very apt synopsis of much of what the Western world is going through. It is going through a period of like, internal cannibalization. Right. We are cannibalizing ourselves from the inside. We don't. We are not faced currently in America or the West. Okay. You could say, like, we have, you know, proxy global conflicts going on, but part those to one side. We don't suffer currently a external threat militarily or ideologically, which is going to crush us. Right. It's not like communism. And of course, what Ayn Rand was writing. And I've read, and I've read pretty much every book every Ayn Rand wrote, but, you know, she. She wrote extensively about communism, and that was the threat at the time. And so economically, I agree with a lot of her analysis. Like, she is right on the money economically. There's no doubt about it. But the sad part about what she does is that she also throws into the same diagnosis religion. And so if you read out a shrugged, you will. Even though she doesn't. And I'm sure there'll be someone who'll fact check me on this and say, well, on page 572, she does. But, you know, she. I don't recall within the book, she doesn't actually name the church or name religion.
- [58:52]
Candace Owens
She just sort of paints a bowl.
- [58:53]
George Farmer
She calls it superstition. Right. Because her principle, her principal motivation is the I. Right. And that is. She's talking about the I and how I should come first. She basically promotes the theory of selfish, like, selfish motivation. And from an economic perspective, the west has fallen so far from that. Where we're leeching from people, we take from people who create things, we destroy wealth. We are intent on making misery. Right. Our governments are determined on taxing and suppressing the creation of wealth. And from that perspective, I would agree with her, but I would not say that, like, I would not align myself with. I would definitely not, at the age of 34, align myself now with where I believed that I was when I was, like, 22. Right. I read the book in three weeks.
- [59:44]
Candace Owens
So I stand corrected then. What would you say now is your maybe not favorite book, most transformative book? Like, if you were saying these are the books that you should definitely read, put on your list. Our books are so different, by the way. It's so funny. If we both supply our list, they'd be like, what is going on in this household?
- [60:02]
George Farmer
Gosh, that's a really good question. Oof. I would probably have to think about that.
- [60:11]
Candace Owens
I mean, well, you do read.
- [60:14]
George Farmer
I do read quite a lot in the morning.
- [60:15]
Candace Owens
You read three books, and obviously this is, again, attributing to your spiritual life, but obviously the Bible, you read Quotations from C.S. lewis. Maybe there's a C.S. lewis book in there that you might recommend, just giving you ideas here. And then you read which Pope? Pius.
- [60:32]
George Farmer
No, Pope Benedict xvi.
- [60:33]
Candace Owens
Benedict xvi.
- [60:34]
George Farmer
I read a Daily Reader from those two guys. Those two guys, The Pope and Cieslos. I do read a Daily Reader from those two because they are treasures of wisdom. Now, do they have a specific book like C.S. lewis, Mere Christianity, obviously, which has seemed to undergo quite a popular resurgence. Russell Brand, for example, our Cupid in our story, he did a book club on it recently, which I thought was very interesting.
- [61:09]
Candace Owens
Really love the idea of Russell Brand as Cupid.
- [61:14]
George Farmer
But on top of that, I would say, like, there are really interesting books that I've read in the last few years, which I find to be very interesting on, like, totally different topics. I mean, I would say the Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self, which was written by a professor called Carl Truman, I think, which I read last year, was a really, really interesting analysis on how we have ended up. It's basically the politics of sexuality, and it's reading a fascinating book. It was a fascinating book just to. Because to the untrained mind, you get here and you get to 2024, and you're like, what on earth went wrong? Like, where did we go wrong? What has happened? Like, how have we ended up just talking about this? And what he does a really amazing job of. And it probably was the most. It was just the most interesting book that I've read in the last five years, probably. But it was. Well, maybe not the last five years, but definitely the last couple of years. It weaves the thread of how we started talking about the romantic literature poets and how we ended up at transgender. And it's basically saying that you have this kind of fine thread which has been woven all the way through countless, like, generations and centuries where the politics of sexuality have become the all it is like, now that is the biggest thing for people. And for them, sexuality is the number one. It. It is the new God. Right. And so how do we end up in this place? He does a great. He does a great job in explaining it. I would also say things like, other interest. Like. Another great book which I read in the last five years was the Great American Gamble, which is a weirdly kind of academic book about America's nuclear policy in the last 70 years. And when I say nuclear, I mean, like, nuclear weapons. And it really demonstrated to me the. And in some ways, this goes back to what we were saying earlier, the dangers of, like, conformist thinking. Because really, what it shows you is that America put itself at a position of unbelievable weakness by doing what it did, which was kind of saying, we will have this great policy of mutually assured destruction. And mutually assured destruction was a complete nonsense. And actually that. It just changed the way I thought about geopolitics. It changed the way I thought about defense. It changed the way I think about America's role in the world. And so that was another fascinating book. Like, you know, there are so many. I mean, you know, you can name so many. Thucydides is a great read, too, if you're into ancient history. I mean, there are so many great books which I've read in the last few years, which I would really recommend. But those are just two which stand out.
- [64:17]
Candace Owens
Yeah, I would say international liberalism, expansion. That's been a bit of a mess, geopolitically speaking. I don't understand why we think it's our job to spread democracy, and we're never actually spreading democracy. I think when we say spread, spread democracy, it's like code word for dropping bombs. But I won't get too political and ask you aggressive questions. Go on. Let me ask you, what are the hot burning topics? Putin or Zelensky?
- [64:39]
C
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- [65:39]
Candace Owens
Okay, so another question. Obviously we're coming to the end of this year and it's been a year for the books for me and you. I would say we have definitely had a year. Quiet, peaceful quiet.
- [65:50]
George Farmer
Yeah.
- [65:52]
Candace Owens
No changes. Everything's been copacetic.
- [65:55]
George Farmer
Very nice. Yeah.
- [65:55]
Candace Owens
Yeah. But I mean, I guess people would just want to know what that was like, what this year has been like. As somebody who actually had a front row seat to everything, I think, you know, the public always thinks they have a front row seat to everything. It's always either 10 times better or worse behind the scenes. Go with worse. And obviously it was a tremendous shock. Our life shifted. You were just the most brilliant person in the entire world. Having to figure out an entire podcast business in the span of, what was it, six weeks. We're back up and running and advertising business. I always say, like, I'm just the person who talks on the Internet. I just like to talk to my friends on the phone. And then you have to go figure out everything else. And so just sitting from your seat throughout that entire process, change whatever it is that you want to call it, what did you think about it? What was that like going through it?
- [66:51]
George Farmer
Well, I correct you there. You're the most amazing person.
- [66:54]
Candace Owens
No, you. You are.
- [66:55]
George Farmer
We can do this a long time.
- [66:56]
Candace Owens
We can do this. I have. I am stubborn.
- [66:58]
George Farmer
Yes, I know you are. No, but it's a team effort. It's a team effort. That's what it always is. It's always a team effort. But, yeah, look, it's been. It was the most challenging year we've ever had, for sure, in so many ways. And we both know that. I would say that there was a big component to just saying to the Lord, like, help. You know, help. Just kind of help. How do we do this? Like, how do we do everything? You know, whether it be from, you know, lawsuits to the new business to, you know, raising children, son starting school, like, you know, setting up a studio. I mean, just everything that we've done this year, and there's been a lot. And I haven't even mentioned half the things in that, you know, little synopsis there, but it's been really tough, and I would say that it's been. It's been good to do it, because, you know, fire does strengthen. Like, it does strengthen. And I would think. I think that our marriage has definitely got stronger because of it. You know, like, I think I said this when we were at the Catholic Identity Conference, but, like, you know, your Tuesdays are not kind of average Tuesdays. Like, they're kind of. You know, it's not like waffles or cereal. It's kind of like, yeah, like, what are they going to publish? Okay, we better, like, do something about this. You know, it's just different. And. And that also means that we do just have this kind of constant need to be brutally honest with each other, which I really enjoy. And I think that, actually, in some ways, I know that you've said this, like, you were very grateful for being fired. You know, you said in your Thanksgiving message that you were thankful for being fired. And I think, like, what that did is it for me, like, the year of change has been, in some ways, like, ripping off. It's. It's exposed, like, the rawness, you know, I feel like this year has been very raw. It's been, like, very brutal to just be like, okay, we're gonna get this done, and we're gonna get this done, and we've got to get this done, and we just got to do it, and we just got to buckle up, and it's going to be painful, and it's going to be grim, and we just got to get it done. And we've got three Kids and, you know, it's like how. Where's the money? And like, da, da da. It's just. It's been a lot, but in some ways, that's. It's built a much better relationship that we now have. Not that our relationship before was. I would say our relationship before was, like, as good as it gets, but now it's kind of like, you know, really battle tested.
- [69:45]
Candace Owens
Yeah. Battle tested, yeah.
- [69:47]
George Farmer
And then just. It's been tough, but. Yeah.
- [69:50]
Candace Owens
And it's one of the things that really surprised me is how well we handled it. You know, I'm even surprised by it. I'm surprised by how calm you dealt with everything, how you just sort of figured it all out and how it didn't. While it was this massive earthquake in our lives everywhere around us, most people can just leave their job. Doesn't become a trending global story. You know what I mean? And it was every person in the entire world having an opinion about you leaving your job is not a normal thing to go through. And yet, I would say our home was really the eye of the storm, because there is something about adrenaline that does focus you. I think that was. That really is the story of this year, is it was the focus that adrenaline can breed where you're. When you have to survive, when your back is against the wall, you just figure it out because you have no other option. And I would have said we had an amazing marriage before, but we had not been battle tested. And I feel so confident now in a way that. That's why I say it really was a blessing to have been given this challenge. You know, God is even blessing you in times of tremendous chall to have come out the other side so unscathed and just stronger in our partnership. And really, I attribute the success of the show and everything that's happened to you. Everybody knows that who works here. I'm just a cute face on the Internet speaking about things that I'm interested in taking people through my 26 personalities that you have to deal with every single day. But it has been amazing. And so I first and foremost, just want to thank you for this year. Also want to. I know you hate compliments. Very English of him. You cannot thank him. You cannot tell him he looks nice. You can't tell how amazing he is. But he was the rock through this year. So much more so than me. And just. He just gave me the confidence to just go ahead and be myself, essentially. And I think that's the biggest thing that you can ask for in a marriage. I'M just going to keep complimenting you until you melt into the chair as an Englishman does. Okay, to close this on a topic that is very fun. Online conspiracies. They are my favorite.
- [71:54]
George Farmer
Okay?
- [71:55]
Candace Owens
They're amazing. People come up with such amazing things. Do you know that, by the way, ChatGPT once gave somebody the answer and then they tagged me and they were like, what ancestry is George? And it said George Farmer was a Jew. Like, that your family was Jewish. That your father's father was Jewish. Which is crazy. But the Internet is a strange place. If it's on the Internet, then suddenly people believe that it's true. So I've got some favorite conspiracies.
- [72:18]
George Farmer
Okay?
- [72:19]
Candace Owens
One that your father is a Rothschild. That I'm a Rothschild. It's amazing. Or I'm married into the Rothschild family. That's a good one, Uncle Jacob. Let's roll with that. I just would like the money if that is true. I just want it. I want the money, Uncle Jacob Rothschild. I'm like, where do they go with this stuff? Somebody creates a chart and the next thing you know, they're like, okay, somehow Candace is married into the Rothschild family. Honestly, guys, if that was true, you would be the first to know. The second one. Now this is a new favorite one that we deal with. That my in laws hate me. Like Christmas. Christmas must be very tricky around the table.
- [72:56]
George Farmer
Yeah, I know. That's a big one. I mean, they're all great. These are great.
- [73:00]
Candace Owens
I'm like, actually, our family, we just get along really well. And that has been something that has been unique and also been a blessing is how different. I mean, especially, I think when I first met your parents, I was freaking out because we come from such different walks of life and I really am from the wrong side of the tracks. But they were just so gracious. And I think that speaks to obviously the fact that they are Christian. And your dad dedicates so much of his life. He leads his life as a Christian. So much of his work is driven by his faith and what he does, which is really funny because people have turned this into a conspiracy theory. He's in the House of Lords, like, dun, dun, dun. Have you read what he does in the House of Lords? All he does is work on family policy. He leads with his faith. He's just such a wonderful person. I get very defensive when people try to create conspiracy theory there. Like, go look at what he actually writes and what he does and what he dedicates his life to. And they were so gracious and so accepting of us and of me more than anything. Like, as someone who they did not know at all.
- [74:01]
George Farmer
So I should just say, for the record, that first of all, announce the first one. I have no known relations who are Rothschild, as far as I'm aware. Like, I don't know that, but if we are aware. But if I find one, I will let people know.
- [74:13]
Candace Owens
Thank you.
- [74:14]
George Farmer
Number two is that the House of Lords is not, like, kind of. I don't know what people think it is. I mean, it is an American thing where they're like, the House of Lords. I think people still think that England is an absolute.
- [74:24]
Candace Owens
I was gonna say, I think they think that the King is still legal.
- [74:27]
George Farmer
And I'm like, do people know that we had a civil war where we chopped.
- [74:29]
Candace Owens
They don't know how UK government works. Yeah.
- [74:31]
George Farmer
They're like, what is this? Like, we had a civil war. We chopped the head of a king, like Charles the First, he lost his head. We had a republic, we had a Commonwealth for, like, 12 years, where the Puritans were in charge. And then we restored the monarchy, but a constitutional monarchy. So the King has no power. And the House of Lords is a second chamber, much like the Senate, but with much, much, much less power. Like, basically no power. I mean, that's, you know, some lord being like, I have power, but they don't really have very much power. And certainly my parents, to the best of my knowledge, I spoke to my parents today, but as far as I'm aware, they don't hate you. They've never told me that they hate you. So that's never been any indication.
- [75:12]
Candace Owens
It's news to me. That's a recent favorite one, and then the newest one that has emerged is definitely my favorite. That Andrew Tate has blackmail on you. It's just like, top G's got you, Top G's got blackmail on you. They're like, this is white. I'm like, what is anybody ever talking about? I can count, I literally think on five fingers how many times I've even met Andrew Tate. Two of them were the times I was interviewing him. Once at the Trump Hotel. I think it's four. I think the total number is four. Yeah. It's crazy. And so they think that they've developed this whole thing where, like, he's known you your whole life and he knows where all the bodies are buried. I'm like, people on the Internet are mad. But I love a good conspiracy theory, so I love to read them about myself.
- [75:55]
George Farmer
Especially, like, he hasn't told me if he has.
- [75:58]
Candace Owens
If he does, maybe he does. Andrew T. Also, if you are watching and you have a blackmail file on us, please let us know, okay?
- [76:03]
George Farmer
Exactly.
- [76:04]
Candace Owens
Don't let randos on the Internet know about that. But it is one of the things that I think has made our relationship so strong is our ability to laugh at it. Because you could not survive this life if you did not have a sense of humor. People coming up every day with a new theory, constantly lying, but somehow if you put it on the Internet, it must be true. So in closing, again, just want to thank you for this tremendous year. I know my listeners have been trying to have me get you on for a very long time. And they know that you are much more brilliant than me, much more well read than me, much more handsome than I am. I'm going to. None of these are true, you know, Couldn't do life without you. That's what I would say in clothing, you know, just still love you more today than the day that we got married.
- [76:46]
George Farmer
That's the same for me too.
- [76:48]
Candace Owens
Could you have to say that?
- [76:49]
George Farmer
Yeah. You pay me.
- [76:50]
Candace Owens
We'll see you in the next. In the next six years.
- [76:53]
George Farmer
Six years later.