Cannonball with Wesley Morris

Episode: A Horror Movie Halloween Special: The Dread Under the Bed

Date: October 23, 2025
Host: Wesley Morris
Guest: Eric Hynes (Director of Film Curation and Programming at the Jacob Burns Film Center)

Episode Overview

Wesley Morris, film critic for The New York Times, sits down with his friend Eric Hynes for a Halloween special to dig deep into the specific emotion at the heart of great horror movies: dread. Together, they explore how dread operates differently from suspense, dissect formative childhood experiences with horror, and analyze how dread transcends the genre, influencing cinema as a whole. The discussion ranges from personal anecdotes and classic films to recent releases and broader trends in American filmmaking.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What Makes Horror Work: The Centrality of Dread

[00:35–04:19]

• Wesley sets the scene: His favorite horror movies aren’t about gore; what matters is cultivating a distinct emotional state—dread.
  • "Blood is not a feeling. You know what is a feeling though? Dread." — Wesley [01:30]
• Eric explains why he’s cautious about horror as a genre:
  • "I'm such a visual person that when horrific images are shown to me, I experience them as if they're real and they don't go away." — Eric [02:44]
• Distinguishing dread from suspense:
  • Eric: "Suspense is basically something where you actually know exactly what's going to happen... Whereas dread is much more kind of existential. It's much more kind of like 'something, something, something.' Don’t know what it is, but something." [04:30–04:58]
  • Wesley: "Suspense is: you have the information. Dread is: you don't." [05:07]

2. Childhood Encounters: Dread’s Lasting Impact

[06:12–13:17]

• Formative horror moments that shaped Eric and Wesley’s relationship to dread:
  • Poltergeist (the "boy and the tree" scene), The Shining, and sleepover horror movie nights.
  • Eric recalls being traumatized by low-budget 80s horror: "Honestly, the fact that it was so low rent was probably—was so scary to me. Because that feeling early on... you almost immediately thought it was real." [11:50]
  • Wesley: "I wouldn't sleep near a window that had a tree... I didn't sleep." [07:03]
• Dread as a formative, physical experience:
  • Eric: "For years, when I went to bed I had to have all of my body covered by the sheets because if there was anything exposed, it was somehow vulnerable to attack." [07:10]

3. Dread and Space: Haunted Houses, Woods, and the Violation of Innocent Places

[09:55–14:07]

• The Shining is dissected as a masterwork of dread within the domestic space:
  • Eric: "There's something so fundamental about it... To be trapped in a house with [your parents] can be terrifying." [08:55]
• How horror films alter your relationship to ordinary spaces:
  • Wesley: "After I saw Psycho, I wouldn't close the curtain." [28:01]

4. Dread Beyond Childhood: Adult Movie-Going and New Terrors

[15:06–33:23]

• Examination of how dread persists into adulthood, with examples old and new:
  • Rosemary's Baby is highlighted as the ultimate dread movie.
    • "I think [Rosemary's Baby] is a masterpiece of what we are talking about where the entire movie is built toward answering this question of what the hell is going on with this pregnancy." — Wesley [15:09]
    • "What this gets is that 95% of what she's experiencing is regular. It's relatable... And then it happens to be at the very end. No, actually, you have a demon seed." — Eric [21:24]
  • Trouble Every Day—how sexual vulnerability and desire are mapped onto horror and dread.
    • Eric: "To me, it’s vulnerable. It's always vulnerability... when you are submitting yourself sexually... you're submitting yourself to another person to do something to your body." [26:49]
  • Weapons—recent film that elicits nearly continual dread.
    • Wesley: "This movie is almost entirely a dreadgasm." [29:00]
    • On a standout sequence: "So your sense of dread kicks in. And I think motion and silence are really important to this feeling." [30:07]

5. Dread Across Genres: It’s Not Just for Horror

[37:36–49:38]

• Dread is described as "free-floating" and existential, shaping films across genres:
  • Wesley reads Eric's prior writing on The Texas Chainsaw Massacre: "It reveals this indirectly because death hardly occurs in the film. What occurs is death suspended, death delayed, which is frustratingly, terrifyingly unsatisfying." [36:50]
• Examples outside of traditional horror:
  • Uncut Gems — constant dread for the protagonist’s life.
    • "The thing that I am crazy about with Uncut Gems is how terrified I am that Adam Sandler is gonna die." — Wesley [39:01]
  • The Piano Teacher — emotional and physical dread culminating for both characters and audience.
    • Eric: "It's the only film I've ever fainted watching... I was so physically engaged." [41:06]
  • The Conversation — paranoia thriller where suspense and dread merge.
    • Key scene with Gene Hackman and the infamous bloody toilet: "To this day, Eric Hines, I live in dread of an overflowing toilet." — Wesley [48:36]

6. The 1970s: The Golden Age of Cinematic Dread

[42:58–45:23]

• Wesley proposes that if 1950s films were about love, and the 1940s about heroism, the 1970s were about dread:
  • "Dread is to the 70s... every single movie, even the musicals and the comedies… you couldn't go to them and not be like, 'Oh my God, what is Blacula about to do?'" — Wesley [43:00]
• The period’s masterpieces: Texas Chainsaw Massacre, The Omen, The Exorcist, Don’t Look Now, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, The Conversation.

7. The Present and Future of Dread in Cinema

[49:38–52:17]

• Is contemporary cinema experiencing a drought or transformation of dread?
  • Eric: "Are we beyond the sense of comparison? Are we in some place now where a metaphor feels like we're wasting our time... I don't think we've actually gotten there yet."
  • New films like Sinners are cited as novel approaches to genre and emotional resonance.
  • On collective uncertainty: "What is the future gonna look like? How do we articulate that?" — Wesley [52:16]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Blood is not a feeling. You know what is a feeling though? Dread."
  — Wesley [01:30]

• "Suspense is: you have the information. Dread is: you don't."
  — Wesley [05:07]

• "For years, when I went to bed I had to have all of my body covered by the sheets because if there was anything exposed, it was somehow, like, vulnerable to attack."
  — Eric [07:10]

• "What this gets is that 95% of what she's experiencing is regular. It's relatable. But people who are pregnant… and then it happens to be at the very end. No, actually, you have a demon seed."
  — Eric on Rosemary’s Baby [21:24]

• "To me, it’s vulnerable. It's always vulnerability. In some ways, you're vulnerable... when you are submitting yourself sexually. Right. You’re submitting yourself to another person to do something to your body."
  — Eric on Trouble Every Day [26:49]

• "This movie is almost entirely a dreadgasm."
  — Wesley on Weapons [29:00]

• "It reveals this indirectly because death hardly occurs in the film. What occurs is death suspended, death delayed, which is frustratingly, terrifyingly unsatisfying."
  — Quoting Eric on The Texas Chainsaw Massacre [36:50]

• "The thing that I am crazy about with Uncut Gems is how terrified I am that Adam Sandler is gonna die."
  — Wesley [39:01]

• "It's the only film I've ever fainted watching."
  — Eric on The Piano Teacher [41:06]

• "Dread is to the 70s... every single movie, even the musicals and the comedies… you couldn't go to them and not be like, 'Oh my God, what is Blacula about to do?'"
  — Wesley [43:00]

• On the bloody toilet scene in The Conversation:
  "To this day, Eric Hines, I live in dread of an overflowing toilet. I really live in dread of it."
  — Wesley [48:36]

Timestamps for Major Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |-------------|------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:35–02:44 | Wesley’s take on horror and dread; intro to Eric | | 04:19–05:27 | Distinguishing Dread from Suspense | | 06:12–09:55 | Childhood experiences with horror (“Poltergeist,” etc.) | | 15:06–21:47 | “Rosemary’s Baby” and the archetype of cinematic dread | | 21:47–28:01 | “Trouble Every Day”—dread, sexuality, vulnerability | | 29:00–33:23 | “Weapons”—modern dread, notable scene breakdown | | 37:36–41:06 | Dread outside horror: “Uncut Gems,” “The Piano Teacher” | | 45:23–49:38 | The 1970s: Era of Dread in Cinema, “The Conversation” | | 49:38–52:17 | The future of dread in film; current trends | | 52:17–53:23 | Top 3 horror movies (Texas Chainsaw, Shining, The Thing) |

Top 3 Horror/Scary Movies — The Guest’s Picks

[52:17–53:23]

1. Texas Chainsaw Massacre
2. The Shining
3. The Thing

Tone & Flow

The conversation is insightful but playful, with Wesley’s signature blend of humor, intelligence, and personal reflection. There’s a warm rapport with Eric; academic analysis sits side-by-side with vulnerable confession and pop culture references. The tone remains conversational and candid, inviting listeners to connect with both the intellectual and emotional experiences of cinema.

For Listeners Who Haven’t Heard the Episode

This episode is an engrossing, accessible window into why horror movies matter—particularly the elusive, unnerving feeling of dread that lingers long after the end credits. You’ll understand how childhood fears morph into grown-up anxieties, see the technical and emotional genius in classics old and new, and receive an entertaining crash course in horror and dread’s role in broader film culture. Whether you’re a die-hard horror fan or can’t stand scary movies, this is a thoughtful, funny, and deeply human discussion you’ll relate to.