Alien Superstar

Summary

Podcast Summary: “Alien Superstar”

Podcast: Cannonball with Wesley Morris
Host: The New York Times
Episode Date: November 1, 2022

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Episode Overview

This episode, titled “Alien Superstar,” is an expansive, witty exploration of Jordan Peele’s film Nope. Hosts Wesley Morris and Jay Wortham dive into the film’s metaphors, themes of spectacle, proof, Blackness in Hollywood, and the struggle to be believed. Beyond dissecting the movie itself, the episode becomes a deep discussion about American myth-making, trauma, media, and the demand for evidence—especially from Black creators and witnesses.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Proof is Central in Nope (02:42–10:59)

• The conversation opens with the realization that Nope isn’t just about escaping or killing an alien—it’s about capturing proof of its existence.
  • Jay highlights: “In a Jordan Peele movie, the Big Bad is never what you think it's going to be... In this movie... The point is to take a photograph of it.” (02:42)
• The hosts stress how this drive for proof reflects broader issues of trust, especially for Black Americans whose experiences and trauma are often doubted or erased.
  • Jay: “Why is the proof so important to them? …because who is ever going to believe you?” (08:43)
• They connect this need for proof to our modern “truth insecurity,” where misinformation and the viral spread of false narratives cloud what’s real.
  • Jay cites a recent viral video to illustrate, “All those things create this environment of just uncertainty and truth insecurity.” (10:24)

2. Spectacle, Fame, and Exploitation (13:05–17:19)

• The discussion moves to Ricky “Jupe” Park, a child star whose trauma is commercialized as an amusement park (“Jupiter’s Claim”).
  • Jupe’s personal museum and the retelling of his sitcom trauma become a metaphor: “This is someone who has turned the most horrific experience of their life into an amusement park, because that's the only way they know how to cope.” (15:06)
• The hosts reflect on contemporary society’s demand for spectacle and content, and how trauma—especially Black trauma—is often upcycled for entertainment and profit.
• Wesley references the Bible quote opening the film: “I will cast abominable filth at you, make you vile, make you a spectacle.” (16:53)
  • This, he argues, frames the film’s critique of the human urge to capture and consume reality, a “violation of the soul.”

3. Blackness, History, and Symbolism (18:03–22:30)

• They analyze the significance of the protagonist O.J.’s name, both as a reference to O.J. Simpson and as a broader symbol.
• Jay describes being asked as a child, “Do you think O.J. did it?” and explains the complicated layers this question exposes about Black identity, justice, and how Black people are seen.
  • “It was an indictment of all black men in America... It was about putting the fear of death in and God into all of us.” (21:08)
• Jay frames Peele’s film as offering an alternative—where a character named O.J. saves rather than destroys his family.
  • “OJ Gets to be a very kind and loving and a good natured name and actually saves his family, not murders them.” (21:51)
• On the horror of American life: “The O.J. trial is scarier than anything this Alien has to offer... Living in America, scarier than Alien Superstar times a thousand.” (22:17, 22:30)

4. The Climax: Capturing Truth on Your Own Terms (24:04–31:36)

• The hosts discuss the movie’s final act, where Emerald (Keke Palmer) uses a hand-crank camera to photograph the alien.
  • Jay notes, “The technology is from her... she believes her experience, and that's enough.” (30:02)
• The themes of self-reliance and reclaiming narrative are emphasized. Different camera technologies fail—only the analog, self-operated one works.
  • “If you want something done right, do it yourself.” (29:56)
• Connection to early film history: The use of the crank camera closes the historical circle started by Muybridge’s “black jockey,” tying the siblings’ legacy to the origins of cinema.
  • Wesley: “It's not gonna be that they got this incredible thing on film. It's. This happened to us. And we're still here to tell the tale. You cannot erase us. You cannot exploit us. You cannot delete us.” (31:29–31:44)

5. Media, Believability, and the Price of Evidence (27:16–28:30)

• The aftermath: Emerald has the proof, but must now face the media and public scrutiny.
  • Jay: “To me, this is one of the most important parts of the film because you just understand exactly the price that she's paid and is about to pay. Right. And it's her composing herself... now she has to tell her story. And that is actually what happens all the time in this country.”
• The hosts end questioning if the world will ever readily believe marginalized experiences, even when incontrovertible evidence is presented.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Jay Wortham on Truth and Proof:
  • “Our relationship to the truth is psychotic and pathological. You know, you can't really believe what people say. You can't believe what you see.” (09:15)
• On Exploiting Trauma:
  • “Here's what people do all the time... upcycle every iota of your existence, which includes your trauma, for entertainment, for attention, for the hope of an eventual payday.” (15:16)
• On Spectacle:
  • Wesley: “This human urge to capture reality, this human urge to capture people who don't want to be captured, you know, is a sin... It's a violation of the soul.” (17:08)
• On Blackness and Belief:
  • Jay: “It was such a loaded question because it wasn't an indictment of this horrible, horrible tragedy. It was an indictment of all black men in America.” (21:08)
• Final Words of Triumph:
  • Jay: “It's not gonna be that they got this incredible thing on film. It's. This happened to us. And we're still here to tell the tale. You cannot erase us. You cannot exploit us. You cannot delete us.” (31:29–31:44)
  • Wesley: “Amen. That's a show.” (31:44)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:42] – Jordan Peele’s dark explorations in American myth, history, and Nope’s real “Big Bad”
• [07:23] – The “money shot” vs. “Oprah shot” and the need for proof
• [10:24] – Truth insecurity in internet age & viral misinformation
• [13:05] – Jupe’s trauma as amusement park & spectacle
• [16:53] – Biblical roots of spectacle and exploitation
• [18:03] – O.J.’s name and Black identity in pop culture
• [21:08] – Childhood memories and inherited fears around the O.J. Simpson trial
• [24:04] – The climax with analog film, reclaiming narrative
• [27:16] – The emotional price of finally being believed
• [30:02] – Technological self-determination and historic closure

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Tone and Style

Throughout the episode, Wesley and Jay riff with humor, gravitas, and vulnerability. The conversation is both intellectual and deeply personal, shifting easily from sharp cultural critique to intimate reminiscence. The tone is playful but tinged with a real sense of urgency about the stakes for representation, history, and truth.

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This summary captures the episode’s rich, provocative conversation about Nope, American spectacle, race, the nature of proof, and the reclamation of marginalized stories in pop culture. For those who haven’t listened, it provides both the gist and the texture of the hosts’ dynamic, the film’s cultural significance, and the personal resonances woven through their critique.

Transcript

[Jay Wortham]

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[Wesley Morris]

Hey, we got a new season. It's happening right now. Did you ask me to warm it up or did you not ask me to warm it up? I'm warming it up.

[Jay Wortham]

It's true. Okay.

[Wesley Morris]

All right.

[Jay Wortham]

All right.

[Wesley Morris]

Thank you.

[Jay Wortham]

Do you want to do another one?

[Wesley Morris]

Yes.

[Jay Wortham]

Hello, beloved sp'. Ers. We have some announcements for you. Number one, yes, it is Scorpio season. Yes, we are back with a short season. And yes, guess what? We are coming to you every Tuesday. Start your week with us. We'll be here shimmering and shining and giving you all the things you love. And with that, here's the show.

[Wesley Morris]

Horny horns. Spoiler alert. Jay Wortham does not believe in spoilers.

[Jay Wortham]

Listen, even if you know what's gonna happen, you can still enjoy a movie.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes. So we're gonna talk about. Nope. Today. And we're gonna spoil it. I have not been able to stop thinking about it. There's so much happening in it.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

There's the plot. There are the metaphors. There are the characters. There are these unresolved questions that are kind of left by Jordan Peele to the audience to talk amongst themselves to figure out. So what we're going to do today is talk amongst ourselves. And the thing that I love about Jordan Peele as a filmmaker is between get out and us in this movie, what you've got is a person who really wants to explore these dark aspects of. Not humanity necessarily, but this country. And I think the first movie, which was get out, which came out in 2017, and this new movie. Nope. Are really about these myths of. Of American culture and history and the way that they live in us as human beings.

[Jay Wortham]

100%. In a Jordan Peele movie, the Big Bad is never what you think it's going to be. And the characters are never going to engage in the way that you think, which is what makes him so interesting. And in this movie, in. Nope. The point isn't actually escape or killing this human eating alien. The point is to take a photograph of it.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes. And at the climax of the movie, Keke Palmer, who is one of the major characters in this film, is at an old west amusement park. And the alien's about to fly over.

[Jay Wortham]

Come on.

[Wesley Morris]

So there's a camera at the bottom of a well.

[Jay Wortham]

So it's supposed to be this like old timey gimmick in the middle of this western amusement park. And it's this laborious handheld crank. And so you're watching these biceps move and just like the strain on her.

[Wesley Morris]

Face struggle to turn the crank.

[Jay Wortham]

Looks like she's churning butter up there. She's just like, I gotta get this handle around the rotation. This is my last chance. We have to get this image. The alien flies directly over the wishing well right at the moment Kiki's able to sort of trigger the. The camera. The climax of the film is watching this giant large format piece of film developing. It's them getting proof of their lived experience. Like to watch a horror movie where the two main characters are black people. And for them to emerge without a scratch on their physical bodies. Like the crux and the tension of the movie is actually not whether or not they're going to live or die, but are they able to talk about what happened to them and to show people what happened to them?

[Wesley Morris]

Yes. Yes.

[Jay Wortham]

Is really important to note. And they get it today on the show?

[Wesley Morris]

Nope. Proof and what it means to get it and be believed.

[Jay Wortham]

I'm Jay Wortham.

[Wesley Morris]

I'm Wesley Morris. We're two culture writers at the New York Times.

[Jay Wortham]

And this is still processing with a special guest, alien superstar.

[Wesley Morris]

Beauty.

[Jay Wortham]

Wesley, what's our favorite shared national pastime?

[Wesley Morris]

Pickled okra.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah, okay. Yes, correct.

[Wesley Morris]

And going to the movies together, which.

[Jay Wortham]

We'Ve been doing on the show since it started. And over the summer we went to see. Nope.

[Wesley Morris]

Together we did.

[Jay Wortham]

And it was just one of those movies that we haven't been able to stop talking about. And so the most natural thing to do was to talk about it on the show.

[Wesley Morris]

Well, let's just explain what the movie is actually about. You know Daniel Kaluuya and Kiki Palmer, they're brother and sister, O.J. and Emerald Heywood, and they run a horse ranch, basically where the horses are being trained to star in Hollywood movies. And now the ranch is in a little bit of trouble. The father has died due to a mysterious incident that has taken his eye and then his life. And now the kids are responsible for running the family business.

[Jay Wortham]

My name is Emerald, that's OJ and we are your animal wranglers today with Heywood Hollywood horses, which has been in.

[Wesley Morris]

The family for quite some time. And they themselves claim to be the descendants of the first person depicted in a motion picture.

[Jay Wortham]

Now, I know you guys know Edward Moybridge, the grandfather of motion pictures who took the pictures that created that clip.

[Wesley Morris]

Edward Muybridge. One of his earliest images is of a man riding on a horse.

[Jay Wortham]

That man was a Bahamian jockey that went by the name of Alistair E. Haywood. And he is my great, great grandfather.

[Wesley Morris]

And they're trying to keep this tradition of black people in the movie industry. And then at some point, it becomes clear that there's something in the sky that is sucking up people, horses, whatever it can get to consume. I mean, we both talked about this when we left the movie. It looks like a cowboy hat. Yes, it looks like a cowboy hat.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

So Emeril decides, because she's an enterprising multi hyphenate, right. That it would be a good idea and great money to just like get an image that goes viral.

[Jay Wortham]

The point is a website like Cyber Dominion, well paid 5 to 100k for photographic evidence of UFOs and shit.

[Wesley Morris]

100K.

[Jay Wortham]

And that's just what I saw on the first go.

[Wesley Morris]

And you know, it's funny, cause, Jay, in the movies normally, like in the Hollywood industry, what they tend to call this shot, you know, that Emeril's trying to get is what do they call it?

[Jay Wortham]

I'm not gonna say the words. You say the words.

[Wesley Morris]

No, it's called the money shot.

[Jay Wortham]

But in the movie, what's great, Kiki calls it the Oprah shot. The shot. The money shot. Undeniable Sing. The Oprah shot. But I love how they're having a conversation like, what's the most credible place that we could send this to? And they're like, oprah. And it's not for laughs, it's just the matter of fact.

[Wesley Morris]

Right. I guess the question I would ask you is, let's just say that you and I were living on a ranch and there's an alien superstar in the sky.

[Jay Wortham]

Right.

[Wesley Morris]

Why would you want to take a picture of this thing instead of like in another universe? Somebody's calling the police, the FBI.

[Jay Wortham]

Absolutely.

[Wesley Morris]

You know, there'd be the media. This will be on the news.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah. I mean, I've been thinking about this question a lot. Right. Because why is the proof so important to them? And I think it's partially because who is ever going to believe you?

[Wesley Morris]

Yes.

[Jay Wortham]

You say this thing happened to you. Right. So, yes, they want to make an image to get money to save the ranch, but it's also about the proof of their lived experience. And they know, because they live in America, they know how difficult proof is. Right?

[Wesley Morris]

Yes.

[Jay Wortham]

What is the truth anymore? I mean, we are still all recovering from living alongside and under a president who is still being dishonest. Our relationship to the truth is psychotic and pathological. You know, you can't really believe what people say. You can't believe what you see. I mean, just a couple of weeks ago, there was this tweet that went viral of a destroyed home. Like a hurricane had ripped through a living room and a kitchen. And the caption was like, a 12 year old did this. When his mom took his phone away and the comments underneath exploded, people were like, what's wrong with kids these days? Social media is addictive. We gotta ban cell phones. Then some people popped in and were like, shame on you. Actually, this video that you're posting with this incorrect caption is actually lifted from a GoFundMe created by a woman who was trying to raise money to escape her abusive partner.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, Lord.

[Jay Wortham]

Then the original poster came back and was like, my kid did do this, but we need resources because he's in a mental health crisis. I mean, it's just really out of control. But I think it illustrates this point about how easy it is to create a story, how quickly that story can surface to the top of a platform that a lot of people are using, and how difficult it is to actually know if that's real or not. All those things create this environment of just uncertainty and truth insecurity.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh, wow.

[Jay Wortham]

I mean, we live in such a confusing moment. I'm saying there's plenty of videos of flying shit online. I saw one the other day that wasn't on Oprah, that it makes sense. These siblings would be like, no one is going to believe us. We need the highest quality evidence we can get. Like, all I'm saying is all that shit online is fake. Low quality. Ain't nobody going to get what we going to get.

[Wesley Morris]

So they decide they need to wire up the house so they can record this alien coming and going.

[Jay Wortham]

He set it up at least the right way, man. I'm talking rich and famous for life.

[Wesley Morris]

And so Emerald and O.J. decide to go to one of those big box stores and get some kind of camera to put on the ranch.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

And to me, these look like prison cameras. Am I wrong?

[Jay Wortham]

No, I had the exact same thought. I mean, they put these cameras on the house that look very familiar in an uncomfortable way. They look like they're in a prison yard.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes. Excuse me. Anyway, anyway, Emerald and OJ Go to This big box door. All right, I can help you over here. And they encounter one of the delightful experiences and people in this movie is the guy who works at this store. His name is Angel.

[Jay Wortham]

Angel.

[Wesley Morris]

Thank you for shopping at Fry's. Just find everything you're looking for today? Yes, angel, he's played by Brandon Perea. And he seems like a stoner, surly store clerk, but you know, they need him.

[Jay Wortham]

And he turns out to be their first layer of proof. Yes, he believes them.

[Wesley Morris]

He comes out to the ranch and becomes another major character in this story. Generally call them UFOs anymore. Talking UAPs now.

[Jay Wortham]

Why they gotta change the name?

[Wesley Morris]

Exactly. Now fuck it, I'll tell you why.

[Jay Wortham]

He's invested enough in this project to try to help them achieve their goal of making an image of this creature.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, but they aren't the only people trying to make money off this alien either.

[Jay Wortham]

No, they're not.

[Wesley Morris]

Down the road, essentially from the Haywood Ranch is Jupiter's claim, this Old west amusement park.

[Jay Wortham]

Welcome Jupiter's claim.

[Wesley Morris]

And it is run and operated by a farm. Former child actor, oj thanks for coming out. How you doing? Who now dresses in western garb and basically sells old western myths to tourists for a living.

[Jay Wortham]

Cowboys and Kyle girls.

[Wesley Morris]

And some of his claim to fame, he's also selling too, because his child stardom is really kind of a niche cult item because of something that happened on the set of one of his shows. So Gordy's home is the short lived but fabled succumb. I starred in 96 after Keith Sheriff blew up.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah, my pops told me about this show. The monkey went crazy or some shit.

[Wesley Morris]

We should just say Jupe is a Korean American and he was on a sitcom where he was an adopted kid in a white family that also adopted a monkey.

[Jay Wortham]

Right.

[Wesley Morris]

And the monkey goes ham and kills all the white people and just rips him apart like, chases him around the set, like beats him to death. Bludgeons them basically with his big long arms. And Jupe is spare.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah, because in the effed up world of this TV show universe, Jupe is Gordy's sibling and he knows he's also being exploited. I mean, that's my theory.

[Wesley Morris]

Oh my God. I usually charge a fee for this.

[Jay Wortham]

Oh, damn.

[Wesley Morris]

So Jupe has this private museum where he keeps all this memorabilia from these two shows he was on. And at some point he gives Emerald and O.J. a tour of it. And I think this is his proof that his career at some point was valuable. And it also is this exclusive trauma Gallery that only the most elite people have access to. In this case, European people. This Dutch couple paid me 50k to.

[Jay Wortham]

Come in here and spend the night.

[Wesley Morris]

I didn't ask.

[Jay Wortham]

That's great. This is someone who has turned the most horrific experience of their life into an amusement park, because that's the only way they know how to cope. And as a result, Jupe is not really a real person.

[Wesley Morris]

My family and I have bore witness to an absolute spectacle.

[Jay Wortham]

One that you'll.

[Wesley Morris]

Be seeing here today.

[Jay Wortham]

The memories he's suppressed are trying to come to the forefront, but he's not letting it happen. They're cloaked in Americana, they're cloaked in commerce. They're cloaked in this family he's built and the business he's built. And I just want to say this in closing. Well, not in closing of this section of this monologue. The body keeps the score, Jupe. And the body is trying to tell your brain these memories need to come out in a different way, my man. But I could see this extending as a metaphor for what happens when you try to upcycle every iota of your existence, which includes your trauma, for entertainment, for attention, for the hope of an eventual payday. I mean, that is part of the world that we're living in. Here's what people do all the time.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah. And fascinatingly, including me, Like, I'm not trying to.

[Jay Wortham]

I don't have a moral superiority. Like, I wrestle with this every day. How much of myself do I slice off and feed other people?

[Wesley Morris]

And here's the thing. The movie opens with this Bible quote about basically this. I mean, I don't know how up in the Bible you are not very. I'm not a big Nahum person. And the movie opens with Nahum, chapter three, verse six. And it goes like this. I will cast abominable filth at you.

[Jay Wortham]

Okay.

[Wesley Morris]

Make you vile, make you a spectacle.

[Jay Wortham]

Right. That's right.

[Wesley Morris]

This is a part of the Bible that's really concerned with people who seek to profit from spectacle, essentially. And so this human urge to capture reality, this human urge to capture people who don't want to be captured, you know, is a sin in a way. Right. It's a violation of the soul.

[Jay Wortham]

I mean, we live in a society where making content is prized above all. Having things to feed into the feeds is prized above all.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes.

[Jay Wortham]

We are really conditioned to doing this all the time. And in doing that, it creates a disconnection from the people in front of us. And we start to only see them as objects that we can use. And so when I saw that quote, like thinking about how vile the spectacle can be, the spectacle that we make of each other, the spectacle that we make of ourselves and the spectacle that is made of us, and particularly that's made of us as black people in the name of entertainment, and often the ways in which that causes harm.

[Wesley Morris]

And then there is this other thing, which is that we are watching a movie whose main character is named O.J.

[Jay Wortham]

Right.

[Wesley Morris]

And that seems like it's proof of something else in terms of spectacles, black people and entertainment. And this is a black person making a movie about a character named O.J. where O.J. is essentially riding a horse. Putting O.J. near horses that may or may not be broncos is provocative. It's also provocative just to be in a world that knows what it means for a black person to be named that.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

And there's a moment where it's clear, the aliens on the move. And Emerald says to O.J. run, O.J.

[Jay Wortham]

No, not like that. You can't do a dramatic retelling of the best moment in the movie. OJ Is unexpectedly in the path of this alien, and Kiki runs out like this just protective baby sibling and is just like, run, O.J. run. Run, O.J. run. And it's just this incredibly dynamic moment in the movie because as a viewer, you are being asked to identify with a character named OJ and we find out about his name and how the world reacts to that name in the very beginning of the movie, because we see OJ on set with this horse to be used in this commercial.

[Wesley Morris]

O.J. oh, hi, horsey. Hey there.

[Jay Wortham]

When the director brings out a very well preserved Hollywood former starlet and they introduce him, and she's like, your name is oche?

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, Otis Jr. Oh.

[Jay Wortham]

And she just is like, okay, so you're. You understand, right, that there's a white way of understanding the name O.J. and there's Kiki's way of understanding the significance of this name OJ which is that purely. That's her sibling, you know, and so in the framework of a movie about show business, the corruption of attention, the corruption of money, you know, we're being asked to root for the escape of someone named O.J.

[Wesley Morris]

I mean, we're talking about proof, right? We're talking about proof against all the odds, and we don't care. You know, the thing that divided the country was that there was pretty evident proof that O.J. simpson probably killed these people. Ron Goldman and Nicole Brown Simpson.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah, no doubt about it.

[Wesley Morris]

But we don't care. The history is too deep. We're operating from a different set of proofs. And when I say we. Yes, I mean black America.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

Just to be clear.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah, Parts of black America, Right?

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, Parts of black America.

[Jay Wortham]

But what I want to say is the memory of the O.J. simpson trial and the fact that it was screened in my elementary school, the fact that people would ask you in passing, do you think O.J. did it? And it was such a loaded question because it wasn't an indictment of this horrible, horrible tragedy. It was an indictment of all black men in America. And if you had a black dad like I did, like you did, you felt protective over them. This was so much bigger than this trial. And if this man killed his family, that it was about putting the fear of death in and God into all of us. The fear of trying to have too much in all of us. And so the fear of our.

[Wesley Morris]

Our own blackness.

[Jay Wortham]

And so Jordan is offering this alternative in which OJ does not have to be a scary name. OJ Gets to be a very kind and loving and a good natured name and actually saves his family, not murders them.

[Wesley Morris]

Right.

[Jay Wortham]

And so when you see Kiki yelling for his survival, you are right there with her.

[Wesley Morris]

It felt really good to hear her say it. Like, I laughed, and then I was like, wait a minute.

[Jay Wortham]

It's actually moving. But the O.J. trial is scarier than anything this Alien has to offer. And the movie understands that. The movie understands that. Living in America, scarier than Alien.

[Wesley Morris]

Superstar times a thousand. Yeah.

[Jay Wortham]

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[Wesley Morris]

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[Jay Wortham]

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[Wesley Morris]

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[Jay Wortham]

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[Wesley Morris]

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[Jay Wortham]

So the culminating act of the movie is this elaborately orchestrated trap to film the alien using an analog film camera. Time to wake up the family. And they're using windsock puppets. There's horses, there's all this fancy surveillance equipment which doesn't really work. All involved parties, Emerald, OJ angel, and this Werner Herzog type filmmaker. They've enlisted through a strange series of events to come and capture the alien.

[Wesley Morris]

Holst is his name.

[Jay Wortham]

Holst is on the scene.

[Wesley Morris]

Here we go. Come out, come out, wherever you are.

[Jay Wortham]

They've orchestrated this giant mousetrap to flush the alien out so this filmmaker they've enlisted can capture it using a hand crank camera. Because the alien's presence knocks out all electrical impulses, so nothing electronic works.

[Wesley Morris]

And in this moment, what we're also dealing with is, is if. Well, I mean, we're just dealing with the fact that we've got three brown people who've imported this white man, this filmmaker, Holst, to capture the ultimate image.

[Jay Wortham]

Yes. I was so relieved when Holst agreed to help them.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah, me too. This ridiculous character. Yes.

[Jay Wortham]

I really saw him as someone who would lend their experience, their story credibility. It feels like this is what they need to be believed.

[Wesley Morris]

He's a white savior.

[Jay Wortham]

And that's a trap too.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah. Yep.

[Jay Wortham]

So he gets on board, he agrees to be part of this elaborate scheme. They're able to get the Oprah shot and it's very triumphant. And then you see Hul starting to pack up the film canisters and he kind of stuffs him under his arm and everyone's like, oh, wait, wait, wait, what was going on?

[Wesley Morris]

So he goes and he's keeping his camera rolling the whole time. And basically when he gets sucked up in there, an alien superstar and dies, presumably.

[Jay Wortham]

Right.

[Wesley Morris]

So does the footage.

[Jay Wortham]

The worst.

[Wesley Morris]

Yes.

[Jay Wortham]

I'll just say for me, in that moment, I was like, wow, I walked right into that trap of thinking this man was the answer. And as it turns out, he is not invested in what they're invested in. He's invested in this extraterrestrial experience for himself. And it just feels like such a reminder of the ways in which industries, all industries that are adjacent to entertainment, including sports and music, film and tv, just extract from black people, take what they can get and just literally head off into a cloud of dust.

[Wesley Morris]

And at the end of the movie, yes, Emerald is at Jupiter's claim and she's finally succeeded at taking that picture of the alien. And she's got the photo in her hand.

[Jay Wortham]

Nobody fucks with a wood bitch.

[Wesley Morris]

And the media's found out about all the chaos, and they start to show up here at Jupiter's Claim.

[Jay Wortham]

You just see Emerald draw in this breath. And to me, this is one of the most important parts of the film because you just understand exactly the price that she's paid and is about to pay. Right. And it's her composing herself. She's just gone through this horrible experience and now she has to tell her story. And that is actually what happens all the time in this country. We are constantly putting mothers on tv, you know, mothers of survivors, mothers of victims, mothers of. You know, it's like this is what she has to do to try to be believed. The question that was in my heart leaving this film was, did Jordan create a world where these images are enough, where Kiki can be believed even without them? I want to live there, you know?

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah. You know, it's funny. I'm thinking a lot about the different camera styles here. And we start with a cell phone. Doesn't work.

[Jay Wortham]

Yeah.

[Wesley Morris]

We go to prison security cameras. They don't work. And a third one is the IMAX camera. Right. Holst is using an IMAX camera to shoot the movie. Right?

[Jay Wortham]

Right.

[Wesley Morris]

Jordan Peele shot a significant strategic portion of this movie is shot in imax. And most of those scenes, the bulk of them, are on the set of the TV show where the chimp goes ham.

[Jay Wortham]

Okay, wow.

[Wesley Morris]

And there's this moment where Jupe is talking about this experience that he had on the show, but, like, there's a pensiveness that's coming across on his face. And then there's a cut to the IMAX of the show, and what you're seeing is young Jupe under the table in imax. The movie thinks IMAX is a kind of telling of the truth. Right. And the truth is either in the IMAX itself or the truth is revealed by the wielders of the imax. Right?

[Jay Wortham]

Right.

[Wesley Morris]

And ultimately, the last camera format we see is the one that Keke Palmer's using with the crank.

[Jay Wortham]

Right.

[Wesley Morris]

And guess what? If you want something done right, do it yourself. You gotta do it yourself.

[Jay Wortham]

I'm so with you. Our brains are touching right now. The difference between every method they try is that it's not their technology. They are not the ones operating it. They didn't build it. It's an external source, an external gaze and another way of looking. And so, in my mind, while the technology that Emerald's using at the very end. It's her ingenuity. It's her technology, by extension. Right. Because it's her arm turning the crank. So I think there's something to that too. Right. That, in a way, the technology is from her, she believes her experience, and that's enough.

[Wesley Morris]

Also, cranking that camera calls back to the opening images of the movie where we're seeing, you know, one of the earliest motion pictures ever made, Edward Muybridge's cabinet cards from the 1870s that has the black jockey on the horse that Emerald claims is her and OJ's great, great grandfather.

[Jay Wortham]

Right.

[Wesley Morris]

And, you know, to me, seeing that it's the historical and genealogical closing of a circle.

[Jay Wortham]

Yes. So what you get in that climactic moment is a recreation of a historical narrative. Only this time, Emerald will not be pushed out right to the margin. She will not be forgotten by history. She and her brother's experience is the story.

[Wesley Morris]

Mm.

[Jay Wortham]

It's not gonna be that they got this incredible thing on film. It's. This happened to us.

[Wesley Morris]

Yeah.

[Jay Wortham]

And we're still here to tell the tale. You cannot erase us. You cannot exploit us. You cannot delete us.

[Wesley Morris]

Amen. That's a show.

[Jay Wortham]

Still Processing is produced by Elissa Dudley with Christina Josa and Hans Buto. We are edited by Sarah Saracen and Sasha Weiss.

[Wesley Morris]

The show is mixed by Marianne Lozano and recorded by Maddie Masiello.

[Jay Wortham]

Digital production by Mahima Chablani.

[Wesley Morris]

Our photo editor is ESLA Attar. Our theme music's by Kindness. It's called World Restart from the album Otherness.

[Jay Wortham]

We'll be back next week.

[Wesley Morris]

We promise. Talk to you later.

[Jay Wortham]

See you soon.

[Wesley Morris]

Sam.