Cannonball with Wesley Morris — “I'm That Girl” (Nov 22, 2022)

Episode Overview

In this episode of “Cannonball” from The New York Times, hosts Wesley Morris and Jay Caspian Kang engage in a lively, reflective conversation about Beyoncé’s 2022 album Renaissance. Through pop culture analysis, personal anecdotes, and plenty of laughter, they explore the album as a work of self-reclamation, queerness, humor, and Black joy. The episode delves into themes of liberation, the intersection of Blackness and queerness, the meaning of “trash” and “camp” in art, and Beyoncé’s evolution as an artist—particularly as she embraces her body and maturity.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Renaissance as a Prescription for Liberation

• The show opens with a humorous riff on Renaissance as if it were a prescribed medication, lampooning the style of pharmaceutical ads and imagining “side effects” like “a heightened sense of liberation” and “glowing urine.”
  • [00:28] Jay Caspian Kang: “Wesley what would it be like if Renaissance was a prescribed medication that had its own commercial?”
  • [00:45] Jay Caspian Kang: “A replenished and rejuvenated sense of aliveness, a delight in humanity…”

2. Beyoncé’s Journey: Self-Reclamation through Music

• Beyoncé engages with public and personal issues through her music, starting from self-titled explorations to Lemonade and Homecoming, culminating in the playfulness of Renaissance.
  • [01:09] Jay Caspian Kang: “For a long time...she wanted to just celebrate black life and just everyday black life quotidian, the way like a painter or photographer might…”
  • Jay highlights Beyoncé’s personal joy seen through her playful public moments, like her family Halloween costumes.
    • [02:41] Jay Caspian Kang: “She was both Trudy Proud, the matriarch of the family, and Sugar Mama, the grandmother…watch her be at this moment in her life is a revelation…”

3. Humor, Camp, and the Unexpected in Renaissance

• Wesley and Jay express surprise and delight at how funny, audacious, and campy the album is.

  • [03:35] Wesley Morris: “The thing that's surprising to me about that photo is...what is surprising about this album, which is that it's funny as hell. I've never laughed more at a person who I didn't think had a sense of humor.”

• They discuss the privilege and risk of humor for Black women in public.

  • [03:52] Jay Caspian Kang: “...for a particular type of celebrity, it can be really rough and raw out there for women, and particularly black women. So funny is a privilege…”

4. Black, Queer, and Ballroom Aesthetics

• The album is described as an embrace of Black queer and ballroom culture, with tracks that directly invoke the spirit of drag balls and queerness.

  • [04:29] Beyoncé (lyrics): “It should cost a billion to look that cool.”
  • [07:13] Wesley Morris: “So this way of expressing herself does remind me of the drag balls from the 80s and 90s…giving herself her own house, so to speak.”

• The presence of queer collaborators and references moves the discussion from cis gay men to a more expansive view of gender and queerness.

  • [09:12] Jay Caspian Kang: “There's a lot of space for true gender expansiveness and queerness on this album…Beyoncé said, no, I want all of my people to come along...T.S. Madison, Honey Dijon…”

5. Camp, Trash, and “Tramp”: Reframing Cultural Excess

• They debate the meanings of “camp” and “trash,” questioning if Renaissance falls into either or something new—a kind of Black cultural upcycling.

  • [09:37] Wesley Morris: “I have very complicated feelings...about what camp is, and when we call something camp. But camp in many ways...is an accident. You don't have any control over it…”
  • [11:23] Jay Caspian Kang: “I wonder if we need another word for Black trash than trash, because this is so part of...a spectrum of satire, camp, and trash…”

• They coin “Tramp” as a term that captures the fusion of camp and trash in Beyoncé’s album.

  • [17:15] Wesley Morris: “This is straight tramp.”
  • [17:16] Jay Caspian Kang: “Tramp. It is tramp.”

6. The Body, Queerness, and Embodiment

• Jay shares a personal journey about body image and her evolving relationship with Beyoncé, grounded in growing self-acceptance and seeing that reflected in Beyoncé’s openness.

  • [22:28] Jay Caspian Kang: “...when she was reaching her first crescendo, I was at a moment of my own body journey...I felt like everything about my body was wrong sized…”

• The discussion around “Church Girl” frames the club as both a spiritual and liberatory space, resembling the duality of church and nightlife for queer Black folks.

  • [23:36] Jay Caspian Kang: “...the way the club is analogous to the church for some of us, different forms of release and...connecting with something greater than yourself.”

7. Liberation and Queerness as Divine

• Concluding, Jay and Wesley read “Church Girl” as a hymn to liberation, connecting Blackness and queerness with divinity and freedom.
  • [25:45] Jay Caspian Kang: “...she starts singing Born Free, and it's so fluttery and it's so bird like...”
  • [26:30] Jay Caspian Kang: “...in an album that's entirely about queerness, we were made this way. And being queer is divine...To have someone be saying blackness is inherently queer...So I'm not knocking on any doors trying to get in...queerness is just inherently godly, whatever that word means to you.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Beyoncé’s audacity:
  • “It should cost a billion to look that cool.” – Beyoncé, “Pure Honey” [04:29]
• On aligning with Black queer world-making:
  • “They're not even for me. They're just me. It’s how I want to feel.” – Wesley Morris [05:09]
• On what radical openness means today:
  • “The strongest thing that we can do right now...is to be open to falling in love, and that is fucking things up.” – Jay Caspian Kang [06:40]
• On the risk and power of humor:
  • “Funny is a privilege, and funny's a luxury. And funny is not always going to be received in the way that you’ve intended it.” – Jay Caspian Kang [03:52]
• On “trash” as celebration:
  • “Trash, to me, is about America. It's about showing the aspects of us that we'd rather not see that are true and vibrant and real about us…And I just want to be extra clear about this. Trash is a wonderful thing.” – Wesley Morris [12:52]
• On “tramp”:
  • “Beyoncé. Neither trash nor camp or baby. Both trash and camp.” – Wesley Morris [17:20]
• On body acceptance and transformation:
  • “One is I started to go on my own journey of self acceptance and my own journey of self love. And maybe Beyoncé did too, because the way she was showing up in her body started to feel different.” – Jay Caspian Kang [22:51]
• On “Church Girl” and queerness as divine:
  • “Perhaps what Beyoncé is saying is in an album that's entirely about queerness, we were made this way. And being queer is divine. It is.” – Jay Caspian Kang [26:30]

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | Notes | |-----------|----------------------------------------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:28 | “Renaissance as a prescription” | Playful intro, medication ad parody | | 01:09 | Beyoncé’s evolution | Jay traces her journey across albums | | 03:35 | Humor in Renaissance | Revelations about Beyoncé’s newfound public humor | | 04:29 | “Pure Honey” and gay nightclub culture | Wesley links album to ballroom and queer Black experience | | 07:13 | Drag balls & Beyoncé’s “house” | Referencing 80s/90s drag and House culture | | 09:12 | Queer collaborators and representation | Inclusive lineup on the album | | 11:23 | Camp/trash debate | Defining camp and the Black tradition of “upcycling” excess | | 17:15 | Coining "Tramp" | Merging camp and trash as "straight tramp" | | 22:28 | Body image and Beyoncé | Jay’s journey to body acceptance mirrored in Beyoncé | | 23:36 | Church, club, and “Church Girl” | Nightlife as spiritual; “Born Free” section | | 26:30 | Liberation and queerness as divine | Reading “Church Girl” as a queer gospel |

Summary Table: Main Themes

| Theme | Description | |----------------------------|-----------------------------------------------------------| | Liberation | Both personal and communal, through music and identity | | Black & Queer Joy | Celebrated through aesthetics and musical references | | Body Acceptance | Jay’s personal reflections mirrored in Beyoncé’s work | | Camp, Trash, Tramp | Debating art forms of excess, spectacle, and resistance | | Humor | Beyoncé’s shift towards playfulness and risk-taking | | Spirituality & Release | Club and church as sites for transcendence |

Conclusion

This episode expertly intertwines cultural critique, personal testimony, and musical analysis, using Renaissance as a prism for discussing Blackness, queerness, humor, self-acceptance, and artistic freedom. By openly questioning the boundaries of camp, trash, and the need for new language (“Tramp”), Wesley Morris and Jay Caspian Kang invite listeners to revel in Beyoncé’s unapologetic embrace of liberation, joy, and embodied truth. This isn’t just another album review—it’s an affirmation of the pleasure and power found in being “that girl,” on one’s own terms.