Podcast Episode Summary
Podcast: Cannonball with Wesley Morris
Host: Wesley Morris (The New York Times)
Episode: The Sexy, Multi-Dimensional Genius of Roberta Flack
Date: January 1, 2026
Overview
In this episode, Wesley Morris sits down with Yale professor and cultural critic Daphne Brooks to remember and celebrate the life and artistry of Roberta Flack, who passed away in 2025 at the age of 88. Morris and Brooks explore Flack’s quiet power, her musical influence across generations, and the intricacies that make her work enduringly relevant. Through personal memories, song analysis, and cultural critique, they unpack the dimensions of Flack’s musicianship and legacy, showcasing how she shaped the sound, sentiment, and social landscape of Black music and beyond.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Roberta Flack’s Quiet Power and Musical “Rest”
- Wesley reflects on his year-end ritual of honoring departed cultural icons and explains why he chose Roberta Flack (04:53):
- “There are a dozen ways of appreciating the music she made. But I want to think about the quiet she kept. You could set up a home in that quiet. You could plot revolution by it…”
- Definition of “rest” in Flack’s music:
- Wesley highlights how Flack’s unique use of silence—musical rests—became a signature ingredient of her sound, especially in “Killing Me Softly” (05:39):
- “The rest is the secret ingredient of one of her signature hits.”
- Wesley highlights how Flack’s unique use of silence—musical rests—became a signature ingredient of her sound, especially in “Killing Me Softly” (05:39):
- Flack’s ability to create atmosphere is discussed as central to her impact—her music as a space in which listeners live and feel.
2. Flack’s Early Impressions and Cultural Context
- Daphne’s personal history with Flack:
- Daphne describes growing up in the Bay Area (08:12):
- “She was just always there, like the sun and the moon in the sky… the atmosphere of my San Francisco Bay Area, early 70s childhood, along with Sesame Street and our Black Power Folk Choir.”
- The uniqueness of hearing a Black woman voice pain and use words like “killing” in the pop mainstream (09:11):
- “Killing Me Softly wasn’t scary, but it was such a rupture in the kind of pop music fabric of top 40... distinctly affective and lyrical.”
- Daphne describes growing up in the Bay Area (08:12):
- Wesley notes how Flack was omnipresent, even for younger generations post-1975, via songs like “Killing Me Softly” and its ubiquity (10:14).
3. Flack’s Place in 'Grown Ass Woman's Music’
- Distinction in a rapidly changing R&B landscape:
- Flack stayed “earthbound” as other Black artists explored Afrofuturism and dance (11:45):
- “She wasn’t contemplating life beyond this planet… She’s like, I can’t. Y'all can leave if you want to. I understand why you’re going... But I’m gonna stay here in this little oasis that I have built…”
- Flack stayed “earthbound” as other Black artists explored Afrofuturism and dance (11:45):
- Citing Mark Anthony Neal, Daphne names Flack as a quintessential purveyor of mature, sophisticated Black womanhood in music (12:35):
- “Making grown ass woman’s music.”
4. Song-by-Song Deep Dives
A. “The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face” (13:17–20:07)
- Why it matters:
- Daphne: “Black love rendered as a thing of the cosmos… to get [even] the unknowing to understand that black love… is synonymous with the universe.” (16:37)
- Role in pop culture:
- Gained mainstream success after use in Clint Eastwood’s Play Misty for Me (18:02–19:22).
- Discussion of how Black voices are used to “lubricate” expressions of white sexuality in mainstream media.
- Comparing versions:
- Flack’s version is cosmic and emotional, in stark contrast to the original Peggy Seeger folk version.
B. “To Love Somebody”—Roberta Flack’s Bee Gees Cover (20:31–22:01)
- Wesley’s pick: Flack’s take transforms and repossesses the song; her timing and sensuality emphasized (21:24):
- “In taking her time, she is thinking about how to repossess a song.”
- “She could do anything… Just sexy. It’s sexy.”
C. “Gone Away” (22:44–24:36)
- Daphne’s pick:
- A Donny Hathaway song, symbolizing collaboration and transcending words through pure musical feeling, especially after the 4:01 mark (24:11).
- Emphasizes Flack’s choral, collective approach and affinity with Hathaway.
D. “Be Real Black For Me” (25:07–26:46)
- Wesley’s pick: The power of her duets with Donny Hathaway; sensuality intertwined with black identity and politics (27:29, 28:14):
- “You don’t have to be afraid to be your full black self with me.”
- “To simultaneously possess sensuality—to sing about sex—while also understanding the politics of what it means to be singing that way in the first place…”
5. Canonization, Neglect, and Changing Legacies
- Neglect in mainstream music canons:
- Roberta Flack omitted from the 2004 Rolling Stone Album Guide and never nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (31:41, 32:03):
- Wesley: “One of my favorite canonical experiences does not have an entry for our deity, our Priestess of Quiet.”
- Despite this, her New York Times obituary was front page—signaling cultural reassessment (32:46).
- Roberta Flack omitted from the 2004 Rolling Stone Album Guide and never nominated for the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (31:41, 32:03):
- Daphne’s analysis:
- Flack’s legacy was overlooked due to historical biases in criticism and is only now reevaluated amid movements like Black Lives Matter.
- She aligns Flack with towering Black intellectuals and activists—Nina Simone, James Baldwin (33:58):
- “She’s very much a part of this cultural phenomenon … of Black quiet, you know, turning within. And this is another form of resistance.”
6. Lauryn Hill’s Memorial Eulogy (34:35–35:33)
- A moving testament to Flack’s dignified representation and “quiet fire”:
- Lauryn Hill (read by Wesley): “She wrote and played and manifested verses for our dignified representation… a voice that was clear as a bell… so rare and unique that the listener is pulled in to acknowledge its quiet power.”
7. The Personal Resonance
- Daphne's closing memory:
- Reminisces about the safety and self-affirmation she felt as a child within a Black folk choir, linking that feeling directly to Flack’s music (35:33):
- “We were together in this space feeling just really safe. And that’s how I feel and how I felt when I listened to Roberta Flack and this music…”
- Reminisces about the safety and self-affirmation she felt as a child within a Black folk choir, linking that feeling directly to Flack’s music (35:33):
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On atmosphere and "rest":
- Wesley Morris [04:53]: “You could set up a home in that quiet. You could plot revolution by it. You could hear yourself think. You could feel her thinking. This is a woman who knew what to do with a rest.”
- On Flack’s cosmic love songs:
- Daphne Brooks [16:37]: “Black love rendered as a thing of the cosmos… is both equal to the scale of the universe and inextricably tied to the light of the universe.”
- On canonic neglect:
- Wesley Morris [32:03]: “One of my favorite canonical experiences does not have an entry for our deity, our Priestess of Quiet.”
- On sensuality and politics in Flack’s music:
- Wesley Morris [28:05]: “To simultaneously possess sensuality—to sing about sex—while also understanding the politics of what it means to be singing that way in the first place.”
- On quiet as resistance:
- Daphne Brooks [33:59]: “She’s very much a part of this cultural phenomenon that often goes unrecognized with regards to black quiet, you know, turning within. And this is another form of resistance.”
- Lauryn Hill’s eulogy read by Wesley Morris [34:35]:
- “She wrote and played and manifested verses for our dignified representation on behalf of our dignified collective existence… the listener is pulled in to acknowledge its quiet power.”
Timestamps for Major Segments
- Introduction and approach to the episode theme: 00:40–04:49
- Opening discussion: meaning of Roberta Flack’s "quiet": 04:49–07:34
- Daphne Brooks on first encounters with Flack: 07:59–09:59
- Flack’s influence across generations: 09:59–12:35
- Song picks and deep analyses: 13:08–28:35
- “The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face” 13:17–20:07
- “To Love Somebody” 20:31–22:01
- “Gone Away” 22:44–24:36
- “Be Real Black For Me” 25:07–28:35
- Break and transition to discussion of legacy: 28:35–30:24
- Discussion of canon, legacy, and cultural reassessment: 30:24–34:16
- Lauryn Hill eulogy and personal resonances: 34:28–36:28
- Goodbyes: 36:28–36:50
Conclusion
This episode is a richly reflective celebration of Roberta Flack’s artistry and revolutionary presence. Through analysis, cultural context, and emotional resonance, Morris and Brooks contend that Flack’s “quiet fire,” mature sensuality, and unique musicianship place her at the heart of Black sound and cultural history, despite her absence from many mainstream canons. The episode moves seamlessly from musicological detail to personal testimony to a call for continued reclamation of undervalued Black genius.
Memorable final gratitude:
- Wesley Morris [36:50]: “Thank you, Ms. Roberta Flack, for everything.”