Podcast Summary: Cannonball with Wesley Morris

Episode: "The V.M.A.s Are This Weekend. Does Anybody Care?"
Date: September 4, 2025
Host: Wesley Morris
Guest: Nailah Orr

Overview

This episode dives deep into the cultural standing of the music video in 2025, particularly in light of the upcoming MTV Video Music Awards (VMAs). Critics Wesley Morris and Nailah Orr reminisce about the golden age of music videos, dissect what makes a music video great, break down classic and current industry tropes, and critically assess this year’s VMA Video of the Year nominees. The conversation blends nostalgia, sharp criticism, industry context, and personal perspective, ultimately questioning whether the music video still captivates the culture — and if anyone should care about the VMAs anymore.

Key Discussion Points

1. Personal Connections & Music Video Memories

• Wesley reminisces about discovering MTV post-divorce (02:09), describing it as “the radio with pictures.”
  • Quotes the thrill of seeing “Every Breath You Take” multiple times:

    "I would sit there like as a 6 or 7 year old... I think I can turn it off now." (03:14)

• Nailah recalls The Box and early-2000s cable:
  "My whole social life was organized around music videos... my whole day was just structured around when I would get to see music videos and when I would get to talk about them." (04:54)

2. Why Music Videos Matter(ed)

• Music videos as communal currency — a way to be part of the peer conversation.
• The power of visual reinterpretation:

  “The song is one thing, but there could also be this other interpretation by a director... a slightly more oblique take.” (05:31, Nailah)

3. Diversity of Video Platforms and Networks

• MTV, VH1, and BET fostered different music video cultures:
  • MTV: Mostly chart hits and mainstream videos, with a white audience bias.
  • VH1: Focused largely on women artists.
  • BET: Centered on Black artists and communities.
• “They were like radio stations for videos, and they had a format.” (06:59, Wesley)

4. Defining Iconic Music Videos & Moments

• Wesley's first memory: Thriller world premiere:

  "I just remember sitting there being completely eroticized... there was something about his true transformation from Michael to the werewolf." (08:18, Wesley)

• Nailah’s pivotal video: Missy Elliott’s “The Rain” — exuberant weirdness and subversiveness (08:53).
• The rise of “posse” and “bad boy” videos — camera as audience (10:45).

5. Taxonomy of Music Videos (12:22)

• Portrait video: Lip-sync, various outfits, simple settings.
• Single story location: Narrative-driven, short film style.
• Long-form video: Moves beyond the song’s runtime.
• Live performance video: Repurposed footage.
• “Bunch of scenes” video: Montage of visuals, more flash than substance.

  “Most music videos... I want to play around with all of these sound stages and do a bunch of crazy Things that maybe... is going to amount to something.” (14:27, Wesley)

6. Music Video Tropes & Pet Peeves

• Hair-blowing wind fans (19:01), metal gates, fences, and performative technology (cell phones, pagers).
• Posse video: Asserting roots and success with community.
• The sidelined band member trope (17:16).
• Feminist empowerment videos featuring groups of women confronting a man (“Love is a Battlefield,” “It’s Not Right But It’s Okay,” “I Hate U So Much Right Now”) (21:53).
• Criticism of videos being too literal or discordant in imagery, e.g., unnecessary costume changes:

  “Don’t motif me. Just give me one. But don’t give me seven different scenes that don’t mean anything.” (25:17, Wesley)

7. The State of Music Videos in 2025

• The art form has diminished in cultural centrality.
  • Major artists (e.g., Beyoncé) often release albums with no traditional videos.
  • Videos have shifted from TV to social media; reels and TikToks replace full-length videos.
• Proximity to artists now comes via social, not video:

  “You can just open your phone... you don’t need the technology of a music video to spend time with them.” (28:41, Nailah)

• Industry economics: Music videos now as “content,” supporting a song’s streaming chart position rather than album sales or artistic statement (30:03).

The VMA Conversation

8. VMAs: Past Culturally Significant Moments

• The VMAs were once a cool, unpredictable counterpoint to the Grammys.
• Memorable moments:
  • Lil' Kim and Diana Ross’s iconic 1999 exchange (33:31).
  • Madonna/Britney/Christina kiss, Madonna’s “Like a Virgin” performance (34:49).

9. Aging, Evolution, and “Fan-ification”

• Since 2006, winners are fan-voted, mirroring the shift to participatory, digital culture — and leading to Taylor Swift’s VMA dominance.

  "Once you allow that to happen... that shift in 2006 mirrors the sort of technological and therefore cultural shift in terms of how the videos are gonna be ingested.” (37:20, Wesley)

• YouTube stats make music video popularity precise and public, but also commodify the experience:

  "In some ways, the video, we're not really that concerned with the video. We experience it, but only for the song." (39:03, Wesley)

• The 2025 VMAs have shifted to a network broadcast, adding Album/Song of the Year categories (39:49)—further “grammifying” the event.

Detailed Breakdown: 2025 Video of the Year Nominees

10. Ariana Grande — “Brighter Days Ahead” (41:22)

• 27-minute film styled after "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind," with nods to "Inside Out."
• Personal/family videos mixed in for meta-commentary on memory and nostalgia.

  “There's this, like, moment of convergence between the personal and the professional.” (42:31, Nailah)

• Lamented for lack of star wattage and joy:

  “You look catatonic the entire time... Where's the joy? Where's the Glinda of it all?” (43:22, Wesley)

11. Sabrina Carpenter — “Man Child” (44:48)

• Movie trailer-inspired, madcap American West roadtrip.
• Witty, self-aware, saturated with cinematic and pop-cultural referents:

  "Every kind of man... moving from chaotic moment to moment, from strange image to strange image... the elephant in the room." (45:28, Nailah)

• Praised for editing, art direction; the artist “knows what the joke is.” (48:18, Wesley)

12. Kendrick Lamar — “Not Like Us” (49:16)

• Powerfully rooted in Black collective experience and confrontational in tone.
• Iconography: MLK memorial, shipping containers symbolizing historical trauma.

  “It feels like a national posse... they not like us, they not like us.” (49:51, Wesley) "There's also the implications of us right of the middle of passage... when you see a black person in front of a shipping container... that's a major one." (50:21, Nailah)

• Layered, complex, and critically lauded for sparking fan/Reddit theorizing.

13. The Weeknd & Playboi Carti — “Timeless” (52:02)

• Stark, bleak tableau. Soundstage performance with joyless, aimless dancers.
• Purposely anti-glamour; a deliberate photo-negative of earlier hip hop videos (bad boy era).

  “These women look lost. They look confused.” (52:28, Wesley)

14. Bruno Mars — “Apt” & “Die With a Smile”

• Two entries; recognized for star persona but not considered frontrunners.

15. Billie Eilish — “Birds of a Feather” (54:32)

• Billie alone in a dilapidated office, being physically pulled as she sings — an extended metaphor for emotional and relationship labor.
• Referential visual nods to Janet Jackson’s “Pleasure Principle.”

  "She is the star... and she never gives up the lip syncing part... There's nobody else in the video, it's just her." (56:14, Wesley)

• Evocative, tight, star-centered.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On music videos’ diminished cultural place:

  "This art form has never been being experienced, even passively, by more people. And yet it... no longer feels primal to who we are as a culture." (59:08, Wesley)

• On the persistence of artistry:

  “The music video is in good hands, you know, from the artist perspective... But from big tech, I'm not so sure.” (60:29, Nailah)

• On TikTok vs. the music video:

  "They exist for you and me and all the YouTube viewers in the house as music videos. They're not TikToks." (60:05, Wesley)

Who Should Win? The Critics’ Picks (57:04–58:54)

• Nailah’s top picks:

  1. Kendrick Lamar ("Not Like Us"): "A galvanizing moment in pop culture. Truly deserves it."
  2. Sabrina Carpenter ("Man Child"): "Provocative and interesting. Speaks to the moment."

• Wesley’s top picks:

  1. Kendrick Lamar: "The power and impenetrability of Not Like Us is a text... a bottomless document."
  2. Billie Eilish ("Birds of a Feather"): "I liked the intimacy and coherence... The tightness and kind of fragrance of that production really makes its way into the music video."

The Takeaway

• The music video endures as an artistic form—if less central and less vital than it once was, still a site of experimentation, star-making, and communal reference.
• The VMAs, like the videos themselves, are a vestige with pockets of relevance, still capable of making moments but now chasing the culture rather than driving it.
• The future? In the hands of adventurous artists who continue to try to make music videos matter.

  “There's some juice in that grid... there's a lot of juice in there.” (60:29, Wesley & Nailah)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Wesley’s MTV discovery & nostalgia: 02:09–04:08
• Early music video tropes & memories: 08:05–12:22
• Taxonomy of music videos: 12:22–15:10
• Pet peeves & tropes: 15:10–24:01
• The state of music videos in 2025: 27:28–30:43
• VMAs past and present; voting changes: 33:00–38:08
• 2025 Video of the Year nominees discussion: 41:22–58:54
• Wrap: The endurance of the music video form: 59:08–61:29

Summary prepared for those who want the insights, nostalgia, and trenchant criticism of “Cannonball” — without the YouTube deep-dive or ad breaks.