Podcast Summary: "When Did Music Critics Get So Nice?"

Podcast: Cannonball with Wesley Morris (The New York Times)
Release Date: November 6, 2025
Guests: Kelefa Sanneh, critic and New Yorker writer

Overview

This episode explores the evolution of music criticism from its notoriously acerbic past (“the mean old days”) to the often gentle and diplomatic approach seen today. Host Wesley Morris and guest Kelefa Sanneh consider how and why critics got “so nice,” the rise and fall of rockism and poptimism, the role of online fan armies, and whether criticism is now less honest and interesting as a result. The conversation is rich with personal anecdotes, cultural analysis, and reflections on the “point” of music criticism.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Stage: Music Criticism Then and Now

• (03:03) Wesley introduces the episode by reminiscing about criticism as he grew up with it—cranky, blunt, and sometimes mean—as embodied by media like Statler and Waldorf from the Muppets and Siskel & Ebert.
  • Wesley: “Critics rolling their eyes at Taylor Swift is a noteworthy shift, not just from reviews of her music, but from pop music criticism in general. For the last decade, criticism has seemed scared of its own shadow—or more to the point, scared of fan armies...”
    (02:10)
• (04:49–06:22) The duo recalls how negative or harsh criticism used to be both permissible and entertaining, highlighting the pleasure in critics disagreeing.
  • Kelefa: “The fact that you could see something on TV and you didn’t have to automatically like it... you could hate it if you wanted. That was interesting to me." (05:30)

2. The “Mean Old Days”: Historical Context

• (08:11–09:54) Kelefa outlines how music criticism started out “cranky” and “combative,” especially as “rockism” became dominant. Critics like Robert Christgau are credited with defining an era rooted in musical prejudice—valuing particular forms of authenticity tied to rock.
  • Kelefa: “Rockism is a term to describe basically a musical prejudice... an idea that good pop music kind of looks like rock music and functions like rock music.” (09:03)
• (13:09–14:08) Wesley reads from Kelefa’s influential New York Times piece defining rockism, highlighting a generational rift within criticism.

3. Transition: Rockism to Poptimism to “Niceness”

• (24:12–27:09) The conversation moves to "poptimism," which arose as a counter to rockism and sought to celebrate the legitimacy of pop music, but gradually overlapped with a reluctance to criticize popular artists too harshly.
  • Kelefa: “Poptimism—most of that word is optimism. It has a... it’s inherently at odds with the critical exercise.” (27:06)
  • Wesley: “Who are you to be saying anything about XYZ artist?” (27:48)
• (18:13–20:27) Discussion of Nick Hornby’s 2001 New Yorker column reviews all top 10 Billboard albums, mostly unfavorably—something today’s critics rarely do, for fear of seeming out of touch.
  • Kelefa: “These days, if a critic hated just about everything in the top 10, they would never tell you, because that would make them seem maybe out of touch or something.” (18:56)

4. Critical Honesty & Identity Politics

• (28:57–31:51) The hosts consider how identity politics influences the capacity for blunt criticism, especially in cross-cultural contexts.
  • Wesley: “I would cite the arrival of Kendrick Lamar’s To Pimp a Butterfly as an interesting turning point... there seemed to be a reluctance, especially among white critics, to straightforwardly criticize the album.” (29:28)
  • Kelefa: “You do have a bit of a problem when critics start sounding less interesting than everyday people...” (32:06)

5. The Costs of “Niceness” and Rise of Fan Armies

• (35:31–36:49) Wesley laments that this “encroaching niceness” has flattened music discourse, in part because of the terror critics face from online fan armies.
  • Wesley: “These so-called fan armies have made it almost a terroristic experience, to be honest about how you feel about some of these albums.” (36:08)
  • Kelefa: “Online culture... has blurred the distinction between talking about someone and talking to someone. In the social media era, it’s the same thing.” (36:36)

6. The Critic’s Evolving Perspective

• (40:46–44:04) Kelefa describes how with age, his approach shifted from eager bluntness to curiosity and skepticism toward his own tastes, seeking to understand why he disliked something rather than simply declaring it bad.
  • Kelefa: “When I heard something now that I don’t like, I’m kind of like, ‘Why don’t I like that? Who does like that? Would I eventually start liking it if I listened to it a lot?’” (41:23)
• (41:44–42:27) Notably, he uses the example of Lady Gaga’s recent album, saying it “feels like a slog,” but wonders if it might grow on him in time.

7. Contemporary Case Studies: Honest Criticism Today

• (44:06–47:13) Wesley and Kelefa discuss Angelica Jade Bastién’s controversial critique of Beyoncé’s Renaissance film, noting it crossed a sacred line and prompted backlash—not for its quality, but for daring to criticize an idol.
  • Wesley (paraphrasing Bastién): “[Renaissance is] a testament that Beyoncé is a brand that stands for absolutely nothing beyond its own greatness.” (46:46)
  • Kelefa: “It’s an ethical argument and... sometimes the most exciting pieces are those that take us away from the practice of making music.” (47:13)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the shift from harshness to caution:
  • Kelefa: “There was something I liked about people having strong opinions about things. People disagreeing.” (05:20)
• On the critic’s personal investment:
  • Kelefa: “Part of what punk rock is, is a movement that says, like, no, this thing that's happening sucks. This thing that's happening is bad—morally bad.” (12:12)
• On online culture and fan armies:
  • Kelefa: “Criticizing someone feels like starting a feud sometimes. Fanbases have raised the cost sometimes of saying negative things because of the kind of feedback you get.” (36:37)
• On inclusive criticism and identity:
  • Wesley: “How much criticism are you—what percentage criticism are you allowed to expend on this work?” (28:42)
• On honesty vs. riding trends:
  • Kelefa: “When critics start sounding less interesting than everyday people, that’s a problem.” (32:06)

Key Timestamps

• 03:03 — Statler & Waldorf: early lessons in criticism's harshness
• 08:11 — Rockism, prejudice, and the “Dean of American Rock Critics”
• 13:09 — Kelefa’s landmark “Rap Against Rockism” piece
• 16:10 — The Nick Hornby Billboard Top 10 review and generational divides
• 25:13 — Definition and implications of “poptimism”
• 29:28 — To Pimp a Butterfly, identity politics, and critical reluctance
• 35:31 — The flattening of discourse, fan armies, and social media
• 41:44 — Kelefa on Lady Gaga: from negative judgment to open-minded curiosity
• 46:47 — Angelica Jade Bastién’s bold Beyoncé critique
• 54:22 — The inevitability of preconceptions in criticism
• 57:35 — On feeling like you’ve figured it all out, and the importance of continued curiosity

Conclusion

The episode closes with the recognition that changing social, cultural, and technological contexts have softened criticism, made it more cautious, and perhaps less engaging. Yet, both critics agree that honest, bold opinions remain vital to the form—and to our understanding of the art itself.

Final thought (Wesley):
“We solved music criticism—we told a story of how we got from at least Robert Christgau to right now. And you made me really excited to, like, see what the next 10 years of music criticism looks like.” (58:53)

For anyone interested in the evolution of cultural criticism, identity, and the role of honesty in the arts, this episode offers an accessible, lively, and deeply reflective journey through past, present, and future of music writing.