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Capital Allocators – Inside the Institutional Investment Industry
[REPLAY] Matt Spielman – Executive Coaching in Asset Management (Capital Allocators, EP.210)
00:51:26
Matt Spielman is the Founder and CEO of Inflection Point Partners an executive coaching practice he launched after a twenty-year career in the financial and corporate world. Matt partners with high-performing executives and their teams in asset...
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- [00:00]
A
Foreign hello, I'm Ted Seides and this is Capital Allocators. This show is an open exploration of the people and process behind capital allocation. Through conversations with leaders in the money game, we learn how these holders of the keys to the kingdom allocate their time and their capital. You can keep up to date by visiting capitalallocators.com My guest on today's show is Matt Spielman, the founder and CEO of Inflection Point Partners, an executive coaching practice he launched after a 20 year career in the financial and corporate worlds. Matt partners with high performing executives and their teams in asset management, media, professional sports and other industries and last year was named one of the leading coaches in Asset Management by Institutional Investor. Our conversation covers Matt's background and path to inflection points in his own career and his coaching philosophy. We then turn to frameworks for setting goals, executing on them, aligning interests across an organization and dealing with inevitable setbacks. We close with Matt's thoughts on turnover in asset management firms and advice for senior leaders. I should note that Matt was a classmate of mine from business school and is also my executive coach. Before we get going, I wanted to let you know that we're enrol first cohort of Capital Allocators University, a live online course that starts on September 21. Rahul Moodgal and I put together a course to help train investment professionals on the skills they need to succeed at the most senior levels of their organizations, but that aren't typically taught in investment curriculum. We'll be joined by an all star cast of past guests on the show to help you learn foundational skills like time management and public speaking and value added ones like decision making and networking. Hop on the website and click Universal University in the menu to learn more. Please enjoy my conversation with Matt Spielman. Matt, great to see you.
- [02:20]
B
It's great to be here. It's really good to see you.
- [02:22]
A
Well, why don't we start with what background and path took you from Wall street pre business school to what you're doing today?
- [02:32]
B
It's definitely not linear, although when you look back it kind of makes sense. So I did start my career at Morgan Stanley and I was in the Fixed Income Analyst program, but actually just upon graduation from undergrad. So one of the benefits of going to school in New York City is that I was able to intern at companies that were in New York City. So there was one summer where I was living in New York City and playing a bunch of baseball about 3040 games. I needed a very flexible job so I Applied for a position where going to the career services in the days where they actually had little like index cards there. And it was for a nighttime typist at a place called First Boston. So I went for an interview and they said you might be a little bit more qualified for a nighttime typist. What about working on the fixed income trading floor in the emerging technology group? I said that's great. I'm thinking I don't know what that is. So I ended up getting the job and I worked that summer at 50, 60 hours a week on the fixed income trading technology group. And I'm like, wow, this is just my whole horizon opened up of something that I had no idea what that was. Liked it so much. And then when it came time to interview for full time positions, I was very fortunate to have the choice to go to various fixed income trading programs as well as investment banking analyst programs. And I ended up choosing the former at Morgan Stanley. I hired 10 people to do rotations across the floor. When I was there, I fed off the energy of the trading floor. I found myself getting up and walking around and talking to people and people don't really do that. I was rewarded in some instances for myopia, which is I need to know the sliver of this, whether it's the yield curve or this mortgage backed security market or whatever the case may be. And I was really inquisitive and curious and I wanted to know what everybody else is doing. So I wanted to learn more about myself and the world around me. And I kind of have a little voice inside that says I'm not sure this is what you want to be doing. I also saw Ted, which has become one of the things that I talk about a lot and see in my coaching. I saw a majority of the people, as I say, living out the Henry David Thoreau quote, which is the mass of people lead lives of quiet desperation. There were people there who absolutely loved what they did. They had Bloomberg terminals at home, they read Barron's on the weekend. But that wasn't the majority. The majority, they were waiting for check day at the end of the year and I saw them as for the 364 other days, walking around a little bit like zombies. Yes, I'm personifying various things and being somewhat hyperbolic, but that wasn't going to be me. So I applied to business school and fortunately I was admitted.
- [05:05]
A
So you go to business school thinking that that wasn't going to be your path. How did you figure out what you wanted to do as you came out.
- [05:12]
B
It wasn't going back to the fixed income trading floor. I had resigned that and said, I'm not ready to sign on the dotted line for that for the next seven to ten years. I really arrived on campus in 1997 with this sort of wide open aperture of looking at the world around me and really going within. So I was much more introspective than I had ever been and I was able to have really these meaningful conversations with people. There was one day very early on when I was preparing for the next day. I was reading a case and I had the TV on in the background. It was sort of muted, but I could tell what was going on. And I saw this was, I think a 60 second commercial where I saw Billy Joel in a crowded stadium playing. And there was something on the screen that said something about Piano Man. He was singing in the iconic song Piano Man. And I could tell that the 18,000 people in that enclosed stadium were also singing it. That was very apparent from the visual. And it really struck me hard. For whatever reason, I think I was in that moment where I was thinking about a lot of things and I had three thoughts. The first thought I had was, wow, it'd be awesome to be in that stadium. Like almost be like a religious experience of 18,000 people singing anything. It'd be really awesome. Where is he playing? I may want to go. The second thought I had was, what if Billy Joel had chosen not to go in that path? It certainly was not the path of least resistance to become a musician, to write songs and to make a living and to be the musician that he was. There are probably a hundred other things, if not a thousand other things that he could have done that would have been easier to become. And then the third, which was probably the most important to me at that time, which triggered this multi day, multi month, multi year search, was what is my version of Piano Man? Not necessarily to sit down and pen that song for 18,000 people to sing, but what is my version of that? Is it? And for everybody it can be different, but is it to teach second grade in Idaho? Is it to become a managing partner at a private equity firm? Is it to become a doctor? But what is my version of Piano Man? And that sort of formally started this quest to figure out what is my version of that. I was really interested in helping build something from not necessarily nothing, because there was something already established, but to really build something and have an impact on something and also being able to serve several different roles. One of my classmates, section mates actually said hey Matt, how'd you like to run sales, marketing and business development and help us raise money for a 13 person web hosting company in Los Angeles? I said, that's awesome. What's a web hosting company? So I got involved in HR and becoming like the chief people officer and we had onboarding and we had university for people and that was really, really cool for me. There was also an opportunity to generate meaningful wealth at that time. And this is sort of on the heels of Yahoo buying GeoCities and several years after Netscape going public. I wasn't thinking about it exactly like this, but it was a bit of that 98, 99 timeframe, a bit of the wild, wild west. And you know what, not having necessarily come from that, really any type of wealth. That was really exciting to me so I could help build something and potentially generate meaningful wealth at that time. And it was just exciting. And I was working with two of my classmates who I knew really, really well. And that was pretty cool.
- [08:47]
A
What happened?
- [08:48]
B
Company was acquired in fairly short order. It's really good that that happened because I was wrestling with the whole situation. I was in Los Angeles and I didn't necessarily have family in Los Angeles, not necessarily like a built in friend network there. And Los Angeles is several different places separated by lots and lots of traffic. So I feed off the energy of others and it was a little isolating. Plus I started dating very seriously in my second year of business school. Sharon. We're married now and we had plans to go to New York. We were going to live together and that whole thing and that was on hold. So we were flying back and forth. I was going to New York, she was coming to Los Angeles. And that was really challenging. So I was ready to kind of leave Los Angeles behind and come back to New York full time.
- [09:31]
A
So what happened from there?
- [09:33]
B
So I had the bug to once again have an imprint on building something. And I reached out to a friend and sort of mentioned to her that I'm coming back to New York and I'm looking for my next opportunity. And she said, you gotta meet this guy, he's great. He just was part of the team that built Moviefone and sold it to aol and he's looking for his next thing. So I met him. And sort of longer story, very short, I ended up being employee number three, day number two at this young company. And that was exciting as well for very similar reasons where I got to wear many hats, build something from nothing, and very early stage, leave an imprint, shape the future of the company.
- [10:15]
A
So you have these startup like experiences at a very, very heady time for technology. Your path, somewhere along the way veered into what you're doing today. How did you think about whether what you were doing was your version of Piano Man?
- [10:33]
B
In many instances, when we start something new, that that grass is generally greener. When, when we start something, there's luster, there's excitement and it's really awesome to be in that new thing. Had it been more of my Piano man, it would have been more sustaining, lasting and enduring.
- [10:49]
A
And so what led you to get off that track and go in this different direction?
- [10:56]
B
The more senior I got in the various jobs, whether it was at Morgan Stanley or at some of these young companies, or I spent six years at Viacom and also was a senior leader at a digital media agency within the publicist group. I managed a whole lot of people and large teams. In particular, it was a 30, 40 or 50 person team. I kind of forget now whether it's the chief marketing officer at a company called Return Path or it was the senior leader at Publicis was 30 or 40 or 50 people. Yes, we had a product or a service that we were looking to sell. I was most drawn to the impact that I was having on the individuals. Are they in the right role? Do they have the right training? Do they have the right guidance? What can I do to see them grow and develop and thrive? If I'm meeting with the CEO, is there an opportunity to have them meet the CEO or have them present at the town hall? I was constantly seeking those opportunities for them. The bells began to go off. While I was interested in hitting our numbers and our sales numbers and we're doing a good job on the marketing side and getting our mess all that. Yeah, definitely interested in that. Much more drawn to seeing other people thrive, grow and develop.
- [12:05]
A
And what did you do when you started hearing those bells?
- [12:08]
B
It was a little bit of confusion in the sense of how can I manifest this? So on a daily basis this becomes the focus. There was this period of time that I began to research and talk to chief human resources officers. Is that something that I could do that gets me closer where it's the direct impact on others as opposed to almost by proxy. If I'm the head of sales or chief marketing officer or whatever the job title was, by proxy, working with the team and getting the best out of them for themselves, can I do it more directly? I kind of found that being that chief people officer or chro, there were a lot of other elements that were involved There, which was benefits and lawsuits and litigation, like, all that stuff, which was that sort of energy drain versus energy source.
- [12:54]
A
So what'd you do with that insight?
- [12:56]
B
I was really fortunate at the time to be partnered with my coach, Peter. And we had active discussions where, you know, one day I said, peter, I want to do what you're doing. I really like that a lot. How the heck can I make that happen? And that's where the majority of our work and our discussions focused on realizing that, actualizing that, making it happen.
- [13:15]
A
So I want to dive into your whole coaching philosophy and practice. Before we do that, I'm really curious to ask you about that moment or that period of change and inflection. You have a career path. It's going well. You have a family, and you think about a student body left to do something that you hadn't done. What was that like?
- [13:40]
B
Oh, my goodness. So people looked at me with. Even more quizzically than they normally look at me. Like, that's a little off. I was 44 years old at the time, and I had lots of conversations with Sharon about this is what I want to do, why this is what I think it could look like. And she's like, hey, if you sort of sketch out the business plan over dinner, we could talk about that. And so I began to do that with her, and it was really risky. And I also wanted to do it the right way. There were three legs of that table for me to launch a successful practice as an executive coach. I felt like my 20 years of work experience helped sort of foster additional understanding and empathy and also experience that people can sort of ask me about. Second is how I'm constituted as a person. What energizes me, and seeing other people thrive and develop and grow is my fuel. And the third is training. There really is training, and there's a science behind coaching and the arc of the coaching conversation. I wanted to do, and I didn't have that, and I wanted to do it the right way. And anybody can call him or herself a coach. It can be a really squishy industry. And that was not the way I wanted to launch. So, okay, shoot. I'm 44. We have two boys where we have this place in the suburbs. How am I going to work this out? We figured out how to make it work at the full support of Sharon. I did go back to school, essentially taking off most of the year doing some consulting work and advising companies and stuff like that, but really going back to school and taking a rigorous program. And several people asked Me or actually said to me, I didn't even ask me, like, what are you doing? Like this is a real risk. And without sounding obnoxious was I said the real risk is that I don't do this. That would really eat me alive. And if I'm 55 instead of 45 and I didn't actually do this, it would be harder then I would have spent 10 years walking down a different road than the road that I really wanted to walk down.
- [15:35]
A
So you go through this training and you started to practice. So how do you describe what you do today?
- [15:43]
B
This is one of those questions where I wrestle with in terms of what do I call myself. I think executive coach is too limiting. I also think people misinterpret what the word coach is. They believe it's very directive and back, elbow up or keep your eye on the ball. Don't say that in a meeting. There's elements of that, but coaching is a little bit more reflective than it is directive. So I'm more of a performance partner. There is an integrated performance partner element of it where it's not only we are creating this partnership, it's an empowerment model and you are going to kick ass in your life both in the office and out of the office. And the additional trainings that I took, you know, it's not only executive and organizational coaching, but also I'm a board certified health and wellness coach as well. Studied nutrition science at Stanford. It's the holistic nature of I want to create a partnership that empowers you to kick ass in your life in all the different facets or pieces that drive how you're feeling on a day to day basis. There are several ways that we sort of get into that, but one of the ways is we don't coach from a position of weakness. So let's find out what Ted doesn't do well and let's take out the sandpaper and sort of smooth that out. Let's identify what you do really well, what are your strengths, what are your signature traits that you derive a ton of energy from and that really guide you throughout the day. Let's tap into those, let's find out what's working and let's do more of that. Let's find out what you've done in your past that worked really well and let's understand the ingredients and the recipe for what brought about those really good results and let's use more of that in the future. And sometimes it's really hard to do that by oneself. So have this thought Partner and it's an empowerment model and we're sort of driving together. In fact, you're actually behind the wheel, I'm in the passenger seat.
- [17:31]
A
So that sounds awesome. If I'm coming to you and saying, okay, Matt, great, let's make my life even better, how do you start working with somebody?
- [17:40]
B
Yeah. So I look at it in three different stages and I sometimes use the medical analogy. Whereas a doctor doesn't walk in and say torn acl. There has to be, let's get a medical background, let's do a history, there's maybe blood tests, let's do maybe an mri, all of that. So the first stage is the diagnostic stage. We've got to gather information and that's both formal and informal. The second stage is, once we have enough information is let's co create our game plan. Some people call it an action plan or a leadership assessment and development plan. I don't particularly like those words. The centerpiece of what it is that we do is the game plan. And then the third component is we're going to execute like heck against that game plan and the game plan. You know, the GP is part of a larger game plan system, which is what I'm describing to you. The double entendre is quite intentional. Gps. GPS provides direction. It navigates you to where you want and need to go. Just like a gps when you're driving in a car, there's traffic, there's obstacles along the way there, God forbid there are accidents. But ultimately you have your eye on where you want to go in this co created game plan that you set for yourself. And the GPS sort of helps navigate you around that. Your coaching partnership helps navigate you around that. So the first stage, so that's sort of free diagnostic process, co creation, the game plan and then the execution against the game plan to realize or achieve these goals. Because the other notion is, and I think why clients gravitate to the approach and the team that I've assembled is this is not an academic exercise. Yes, you will feel good afterwards. Yes, you will feel energized. Yes, there'll be intentionality, more intentionality, your actions. Yes, there'll be more clarity, all of that. If we don't accomplish what we set out to do. And that's in your game plan. No, this is based on performance. As a former athlete who played shortstop in college, there were three other shortstops to take my job who, if I didn't make the plays. So this is all about performance. The information that I mentioned at the outset, informal, informal information There are assessments that I administer in most instances to help trigger self awareness in oneself and in others and to help identify what these signature strengths are. Again, we coach from a position of strength. That would be formal information. So from assessments, informal information is I may do a 360 will definitely be several questions and even sessions where I have what I hope are provocative, incisive, thought provoking questions where we gather information. It really gets at not only kind of what about you, but why about you? What is the foundation upon which TED sits? What really drives you? And it's only then when we have that data, that information that then we sit down and we co create this game plan and think football coach on Saturday in college or football coach on Sunday for the pros, holding a laminated card that has the plays to win that particular game against that particular team on that one card. Maybe several dozen plays, but thousands of hours of who that coach is, the coaching staff is, the teams are all the history and who they're playing against and all that. So this game plan has three to four critical goals that you've thought a lot about that are real consequential meaningful to you. And if they're chosen well, three or four is fine because they're going to have massive cascading effects throughout the rest of your life.
- [21:04]
A
How do you take those three or four key goals and then turn it into that implementation phase? You said execution. Execute like hell against it.
- [21:14]
B
Yeah. So a critical component of the game plan is not only what the goal is and then where I think other goal setting theories go awry. They don't talk about the next point, which is what is the why behind the goal? What is the consequence of it? What is the meaning of this coming about. We then spend a lot of time on what are the specific action items and milestones along the way against which we can measure how you're progressing and making progress against those goals. So we know on a daily basis and weekly basis and monthly basis how you are doing in making progress and advancing against the realization of what you set out to accomplish and achieve.
- [21:55]
A
How do people integrate your game plan into what becomes an incredibly busy life? People come in and the next thing you know your day is away from you.
- [22:06]
B
That is an absolutely great question and a critical question. I think it goes beyond what several of my and our clients do is they have this laminated game plan as part of this overall system and they keep it prominently displayed on their desks. Some people carry it around with them all the time, some people hang it on the wall. And I should have mentioned also, you know, part of the gold standard theory behind achieving your goals is sharing it with others. So your executive leadership team, for example, Sharon has my game plan. My two boys have my game plan. So there's that layer of accountability, transparency and alignment. Three cliched terms that actually cease becoming cliche. And they're sort of, wow. Like that is transparency, accountability, alignment of. Other people are seeing what's really meaningful to me and what I'm working towards. We really focus on the here and now. While sometimes when I present this live, people raise their hand, say, you know, there's almost focus about the future and setting goals and by the end of the year or 10 years, whatever. What about this, the present moment? Wonderful moment here and now? I said, great. Yes, you're absolutely right. If we have this image and these series of images of what it is that we're working towards in the future that enables us to ask the questions of what do we need to do today to make progress against those meaningful and consequential goals? So one of the things that we do with our partners, our clients, is say, okay, Ted, if today's gonna be a successful day and you can notch a W for a win at the end of the day and you're feeling really good about it, what are the three things that you will have either and could be started, advanced or completed? We don't always complete things in a day. So what are the three key things that you will have done? The future perfect tense today. So you can look back and say, that was A W, not 8, not 10, not 12. Sometimes they go to 4. But what are the three or four things that you can do? And that's not an easy exercise because there's generally lots of things that people add on their to do list, which if you add 20 and do 4 and you leave 16 over, that could be really dispiriting. Sort of works against you. I call wtd Win the day. What are the three things you need to do today to win the day? And some clients text me in the morning what those are. I sometimes trigger it and send a text to them. Some email me or text me at the end of the day saying, here, these are the things and I'm high fiving with you virtually now type of thing. So a real focus on winning each day through your career.
- [24:25]
A
You started in financial services, you worked in what's called operating businesses. Where have you found effectively your client base most benefiting from your coaching?
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B
It's those people who have really lofty aspirations and realize that they can benefit from and they recognize the power of partnership. And in many instances, a lot of the folks were, maybe they were athletes who worked on a team or they didn't have to work on a team and work with a team. They set really high goals and standards for themselves and they realize like really hard work is what would bring it about for them. And that's where I get the most resonance from people when I'm talking about this model, where there's this volition inside that says, you know what, I could really benefit from having people around me, where there's a coach and maybe the nutritionist and maybe another type of expert in my life because I do want to accomplish these really meaningful things. I'm often asked a very similar question, which is, Matt, when have you seen the coaching partnerships go awry? And I said, well, when it's thrust upon them in an organization and they haven't raised their hand for it. One of my clients was an athlete for much of his life and he said to me, you know, I've had a coach since I was 15 years old. I don't know why more executives and CEOs don't have coaches. They've always managed to bring out the best in me. And that's where I get the most receptivity to this approach. And ultimately like, wow, yes, this not only will articulate what is really meaningful to me and increase the chances I can achieve it, but I could also live. There could be more energy, there could be more joy, there could be more excitement. And that's really where people really respond. And I have found in financial services, they're very much like minded people, whether it's public investing, you know, whether it's like hedge funds or in private equity, or even investment banking. And money management is probably 70% of my client base.
- [26:30]
A
So there's always this notion as a management of financial services that the management of people has been for many, many years secondary to the management of money. And I'd love to hear either stories or experiences that you've seen where some of what you've done have allowed people to become aware of how this system helps them manage people better.
- [26:59]
B
There's been a massive change, I believe, in financial services. What comes to mind right now is in private equity, you buy a company, you hope you make improvements, you increase enterprise value, and hopefully you sell it for more than what you bought it for in a shorter period of time as possible. Part of that is almost always involves that particular portfolio Company, there are human capital elements, whether it's changing or improving the management team, people elements getting that particular house in order. More and more the private equity firms are realizing that, okay, this is what we're asking of our portfolio companies. We should probably also look within and ask of the same things inside. And more and more I've been reading a bunch about private equity firms bringing on somebody called a leadership capital partner, really focused internally and making the deal teams and the investment professionals and the investor relations and the back office folks that much more effective in what they're doing in managing themselves and managing others. So that is where I'd say 50% of my focus right now is working within sort of financial services and in particular private equity and coaching one on one with investment professionals where we exactly what I described earlier. We gather information, formal and informal, we co create a game plan and then we execute like heck against that game plan. And in doing so, to your point, they're like, wow, okay, well we probably need to improve messaging across the firm in a more timely manner at a regular cadence. It needs to be clear, huh? Maybe we should have a mentoring program for some of the young folks who can get guidance from some of the more senior folks, huh? Oh, this is how they're feeling now. So it's a much more of an awareness of what is going on within the firm and in fact the importance of it in achieving what their goals are in terms of certain types of returns for their LPs and fund sizes that they want to raise in the future, really predicated on the human capital element within their firms.
- [29:07]
A
How does the coaching that you'll do one on one with an individual roll up to impact the firm and how the firm say, manages its people both up and down.
- [29:18]
B
Part of this gathering of information at the outset is where in many instances I conduct the 360. So let's say, Ted, you're a managing partner and I talk to 8, 10, 12 people and ask them questions to understand what are you doing? Well, what are some of the things you can improve? I start having a couple hundred conversations across the firm, that jigsaw puzzle of the firm and that image of what is exactly going on within the firm becomes really clear. So I'm able to bring in information into discussions with the managing partners and principals and VPs where I understand all the different components of the firm and they may say this is what they want to accomplish or what they're working towards or they're presenting in the meeting. I say, well, what about the aspect of this in that Monday morning meeting and how you might think about that. And that comes from just seeing a broad picture. This jigsaw puzzle image sort of comes to mind for me of exactly what is going on in the firm.
- [30:20]
A
So I have to ask for people, let's say investors in these funds. When you have these conversations, you clearly learn a lot about how the firm's operating, good and bad. If you're on the outside looking in, are there two or three questions you would think of asking the manager that might reveal some of those subtleties of how they work?
- [30:40]
B
How do they think about what they need from a human capital perspective for capacity? So in order to deploy capital or make investment decisions, you need people to kind of do the research and ultimately the due diligence and develop a thesis and all that stuff. How are they thinking about the number of people they have, the amount of hours that they're working, and what their expansion strategy is for adding people or not adding people and what types of people? So that would be a line of questioning. I also would ask them. From my work and just general psychology, I know that providing feedback and to be heard, to be valued, to grow and develop, those are what people are seeking in general, but also very much in the workplace. What are you doing in and around the human capital area where your employees feel beyond compensation, beyond carry, beyond returns, because that definitely is important. The day to day sort of performance of somebody is, hey, do I enjoy the people I work with? Am I really valued? Am I trusted? Do I have an opportunity to grow and develop? Do I have an opportunity to recharge my batteries every once in a while? So I would ask the firm, what are you doing in terms of tactics, strategies, programs, initiatives around your employees when.
- [32:05]
A
You do this work one on one, and you're deriving out of it a set of goals for each individual? I'm curious, when you work with an organization, what happens in the situations where the goals aren't aligned with the goals of, say, the organization? As you work through different levels of.
- [32:24]
B
The firm, that almost never happens. Because one of the things that I strongly advise is to have the from the top of the house involved in the executive coaching program. So if we're sort of sticking with the private equity world, the managing partners, and when the managing partner or the co founders, whatever, when they are developing their goals, those in essence are the organization's goals. And part of the process is the sharing component. When people have their laminated game plans, we do set up a sharing session where if there are multiple people Participating in the executive coaching program, they will actually go through their goals. Not to look at each other's goals and say, oh, Ted, that's a really good goal, or that's not a good goal. It's more. We identify the interdependencies of, oh, that's what you want to achieve and accomplish. I think I could help you here or I could introduce you to this person here. It's so what happens is when the managing partners set what their goals are, there is a cascading effect. If we're going to generate these types of returns, or we're going to expand in a different country, or if we're going to raise a certain size fund by a certain time frame or whatever the case may be, that's pretty well known. And now part of this process, it's certainly well known. And I use the verb co create the game plan. When I'm sitting with somebody and co creating the game plan, we'll say, well, if Bob's objectives for the firm were the following and goals, what is the role that you can play in that? So there is indeed alignment. And if there's participation from the folks at the top, there's this beautiful cascading effect throughout the firm.
- [34:03]
A
Where have you seen situations where despite the work that you've done with the firm, things go awry for one reason or another?
- [34:12]
B
Sometimes under duress, people go back to what maybe has worked in the past, or they sort of cling to, almost like tense up. And I'm using the baseball now to kind of grip the bat really hard. And that's actually not when you have the fastest hands and hit the ball really well. So they sort of get away from some of the things that we had been working on and the game plan that's in front of them. Sometimes I pick this up because they may be more apt to cancel or to push a meeting. And that's when I know when something might be setting in, where they're feeling extra doses of stress and maybe anxiety, and they're saying, okay, this coaching thing may not be essential. They're not overtly saying that. But what I have noticed and what I do is say, okay, how can I be of assistance in a sort of a different type of way? I recognize you're busy. Hey, do you have five minutes? We do like, carve out in certain chunks. And I try to message that it's actually times like this when the coaching partnership can be most efficacious. I talk a lot about slowing down to speed up, taking five minutes to have a conversation with me or have a conversation with oneself and say, okay, okay, I know things are crazy today and I'm going to take a breath. What are the three things I need to do today to win the day? That 15 seconds, one minute, a five minute conversation with me just to kind of get grounded on where we are. It's amazing what that can do. It's also amazing when we feel extra doses of stress, how sometimes we respond. And it's completely understandable from an investor's.
- [35:53]
A
Perspective in a fund, there's this notion if there's turnover of the team, that that's generally a bad thing. I'm curious, from your perspective working on the inside, how do you think about team turnover?
- [36:04]
B
There are several drivers of turnover and I think what you might be getting at is there are some times where that person reaches a certain inflection point in his or her life and career and says, you know what, this is not the path. I was talking about my career earlier. This is not the path that I want to walk down. And I've worked with several people like that as well from a career sort of partnership perspective. And it's my job to follow the energy, follow the interest, follow the passion and what that could manifest into what that could look like. So sometimes if I'm the head of the firm or if that's somebody on my team, sometimes somebody leaving is okay. I don't want somebody under duress to be at my place of employment. Natural turnover. And that makes sense, especially as firms get larger and they just people are going to leave. That's just more of a natural thing. I think when I would begin to be more concerned is if potentially on an exit interview. Hopefully there are opportunities for exit interviews in the organizations where I work. I'm able to talk to people who have left and sometimes they're completely burnt out. They might be working with or for somebody who, getting back to what I was sharing earlier doesn't sort of value them, is really tough on them. And yes, we can have tough managers, but there's not 100% of the time. So research indicates that one of the key drivers of why people leave their firm is the person that they're working for, working sometimes the people that they're working with. And I would want to get into that and understand are there yellow flags here that we may want to pay attention to from an organizational perspective and maybe even red flags here that we is this a canary in a coal mine type of thing? Natural churn and turnover is indeed going to happen. I understand it's a selling point when entities are going to raise funds. And we've had somebody for 10 years, we had somebody start as an associate and now we're a partner. And that's awesome. And that's great. And that should be part of the messaging and story. There will be people who will leave too, because that's just natural, I think. Let's pay attention. Let's get to the why. It's less about the what and the why so we can potentially mitigate or lessen other people leaving for those controllable reasons in the future.
- [38:19]
A
You mentioned the why, and then you also alluded to yellow and red flags. And I'm curious if you put those two together, what are some of those yellow in particular red flags that you might see in those situations?
- [38:31]
B
Despite the economic upside for many of these roles, I do think burnout can be a real issue. I think especially having gone through the pandemic, working in isolation took a real toll on people. I don't think we fully understand the emotional toll that the last year and a half or so has taken on people. And I do think the environment in which we work is really important. Again, I go back to what I shared earlier, which I'm really deriving from what I think is one of the most influential business books I've ever read, which is called First Break all the Rules by Marcus Buckingham, where He identified essentially 12 questions that if employees can answer yes to, it's an engaged employee and a workforce that's probably producing really, really well. And those questions get at basically, do I feel valued? Do I have the opportunity to do what I do well on a daily basis? Do I have the resources to succeed? Does somebody care about me and my future? Do I have a friend at work or multiple friends at work? And those are some of the softer things. But those are the elements that do drive engagement and those are the elements that can combat some of this burnout that is a potential canary in a coal mine.
- [39:50]
A
So on the other side of that, when you have a successful working relationship with someone that you're coaching, how long do they last?
- [39:58]
B
This is a question I'm asked a lot and it depends why the person reached out to me. There could be something specifically where they want to work on public speaking or they want to work on. They present to boards or rooms allotment and they say, okay, how long will that take? And I usually dispel a little bit of that where I do give them a timeframe. What we do is we sort of have rolling three month engagements and we sort of evaluate after the three months of is there more meat to chew on the bone and do we continue the working relationship and this coaching partnership. Here's what I've realized in five years, hundreds of partners, 2,600 coaching sessions, that the complexion of the coaching partnership is dynamic enough and it changes enough. Where I've been partnering with some folks for the past five years, since I launched in August of 2016. And in other instances we do achieve the job that we set out or that person set out, the partnership agreed to address between that person and it will go generally not three months, but like the six month, we sort of reevaluate and sometimes they say, well, you know, okay, let's pick this up at a future point in time. My partnerships, because we also look at the holistic nature of the individual where they may want to run a marathon or they may even get involved with the community or rekindle relationships from high school or whatever the case may be, they tend to be much longer term.
- [41:24]
A
Now that you're a bunch of years into this sort of new iteration of what you're doing. How do you define success?
- [41:32]
B
I define success in a very similar way to the way I define success in business school. When I remember vividly, it was end of our first year and we were talking about in our leadership and organizational behavior class, it was called Lead. And the protagonist or the main character in the case had a choice of whether he should go to Firm A and make X amount of dollars or go to Firm B and make Y amount of dollars. And the preponderance of what people were saying in the classroom was, oh, he should go to Firm B, it's a more prestigious place and he'd make more money and all that stuff. And I sort of vehemently, I was jumping out of my seat and Professor Kang called on me and he said, matt, it looks like you're about to jump out of your skin. And we're just at the end of the class. And I said, well, where he goes really depends on how he defines success. And of course, like any professor should and did. Professor Kang asked, well, how do you define success? And I said that success is having desire to listen to oneself and then the courage to act upon it. And I haven't always had. I've been kind of listening to myself a lot. I haven't always had the courage in that moment to say, okay, I think I should do this versus this, or I could do this versus this, but I do now and I did when I made this transition. The desire to listen to oneself, which is I want to walk down a different road, I want to have different type of impact. I want to engender the fist pump in people or the metaphorical fist pump, whatever that looks like and I'm going to pursue it. And now I don't know what inflection point partner is going to look like five years from now. I do know that it's going to focus on igniting careers and energizing lives. And I'm still going to. And the people on my team were trying to trigger that fist pump, whatever that looks like in you. That could be continue a lot of the one to one coaching that I'm doing or team coaching that we are doing or more of a one to many where it's public speaking, doing podcasts, doing TV appearances, you know, a lot of which I've started to do, I don't know exactly, but I want more and more people to experience this type of a partnership and to understand themselves, to co create better, to co create a game plan and to work towards meaningful and consequential outcomes. I am looking to democratize coaching to the extent that if they can't work with me or partner with me or one of my coaches that they have these tools in order to go through that process that I described earlier, which is gather information, co create a game plan and execute like heck against the game plan. That to me would be like not positively impacting. To date it's probably been a couple thousand people. I'd like it to be a couple million people, but all within, continuing to listen to myself and then the courage to act upon it.
- [44:08]
A
Well Matt, I want to turn to a couple closing questions before I let you go. So what is your favorite hobby or activity outside of work and family?
- [44:17]
B
I have several interests and passions. However, I have to go with if I don't get my exercise and it's probably five or six days a week, I'm a different person. But it's definitely for how I'm feeling mentally and also if I'm going to be a health and wellness coach, I also have to walk the walk.
- [44:36]
A
As a health and wellness coach, what have you gravitated to? To your type of working out?
- [44:42]
B
Yeah. So what is that? I do. I also prescribe, when applicable to some of the clients, which is what's easy in terms of how can I do this without necessarily needing to drive to a gym, spend an hour at the gym and then drive home. It's what can I Take with me on the road and what can I do in my house? What can I do in a hotel room? I've really started to about three years ago regularly with these weighted jump ropes and you basically get a set of handles and you have different weights and you can do these workouts on a daily basis where they're 15 minutes, 18 minutes, 21 minutes, 24 minutes. And it's a combination of jumping rope which when they're weighted, it's a full body workout and you could combine it with body weight exercises and it becomes this hit, this high intensity interval training type of approach and you could take it anywhere, anywhere you want. So if you can squeeze an extra 30, 40, 50 workouts in a year, at the margins is really where the benefits are made both physically, mentally and emotionally.
- [45:39]
A
What's your most important daily habit?
- [45:41]
B
So aside from the exercise, I have the win the day card. I get all analog and I have a little index card here. And on top of it I have win the day. And there are the three things that I'm going to do today that are going to move me closer to my goals on my game plan, which of course I create for myself as well.
- [45:58]
A
What is your biggest personal pet peeve?
- [46:02]
B
I'm generally a pretty tolerant and understanding person and I get to do what I love on a day to day basis. So I'm generally in a pretty good mood. However, when I drive and people don't use their signal indicators that really for whatever reason, it's so easy to do and it's telling the people behind you kind of what you're doing. And I think that's a little bit of a personal pet peeve.
- [46:24]
A
What two people have had the biggest impact on your professional life.
- [46:28]
B
So I mentioned my coach, Peter Hazelrigg earlier and he gave me the permission to actually think about doing things that maybe I shouldn't do, but that I could do Something that I talk a lot about now, sort of the should versus could. It was a little bit of this. I should go to this school, I should get this grade, I should get this analyst job and I should do this and I should work at this company. And to some extent that's healthy. These are all positive things. But. But looking within and asking myself what could I do? What is the path that I want to walk down? He gave me the permission, just a very simple statement one day he said to me, and it's so simple, but for me it really was profound and I guess the natural follow on to that, which absolutely is my wife Sharon I met Sharon at business school. We've been married almost 21 years. And yes, she's my wife and the mother of our two boys. She's also my partner. And there's been nobody more behind me in my career going back 20 plus years ago to be okay, I know we were going to live together in New York City and you were working at a record label and now you have this opportunity in Los Angeles. You need to do that because that's really what you want to do at this time. Let's just figure out a way to see each other. 2. Okay, you're not going to be working. You're going to go back to school and you're going to be launch an executive coaching practice and put out a shingle. I got your back. We'll make this work. And I don't think everybody sort of getting emotional thinking about it. I was really fortunate to have that behind me because she knows that a passionate, excited, fulfilled Matt is much better than the person who's sort of doing what he should do to kind of earn a living and do that thing on a day to day basis. So she had my back.
- [48:18]
A
What's the biggest mistake you've made and what did you learn from it?
- [48:21]
B
Early on, I think I let the opportunity for financial upside cloud or murky the waters for this passion, this energy, the excitement that I speak so much about now. And I made some decisions in retrospect that if I were making those today, I probably wouldn't have made those. Yes, they become the tapestry and the quilt of who I am. And those are all these experiences that I think makes me a more understanding and empathetic coach. But I think earlier on especially I let the financial potential upside cloud what it is that I potentially really wanted to do at the time, what teaching.
- [48:59]
A
From your parents has most stayed with.
- [49:01]
B
You, dream big and that nothing is unattainable. If I wanted to be a professional baseball player, that you can do that, you have to work your butt off, but you could do that. If you want to go to a certain school, you could do that. You have to work really hard. And of course there's good fortune along the way. But there was never a. Well, Matt, I'm not sure you could consider that. Or that's really lofty. Like I don't know that you could do that. So there's real encouragement and whatever you want to achieve and realize you can do it.
- [49:35]
A
All right, Matt, last one. What life lesson have you learned that you wish you knew a lot earlier in life?
- [49:40]
B
I wish I believed in myself a little bit more while I was able and have been able to do some really exciting and interesting things, launch initiatives and experience real highs. And also there were some lows there and where there were some real big opportunities in front of me and delivered and successfully came through. I wish I could have enjoyed them more. There was so much of, well, I need to do that in order to prepare. I need to do this because I'm not sure that I can actually do that. And I wish I had believed in myself more and almost say to myself like, I've prepared. I am enough to do whatever's in front of me. And whether it was on the ball field or in the boardroom, there was maybe less joy than I would have liked. So I really try to bring, you know, I not only, for example, want to have a conversation with you today and really enjoy it. And I have. I also want to be prepared. I don't want to dread versus joy. You know, I don't want the Casey at the Bat poem of there's no joy in Mudville. There were several years of my life where it was like a constant dread or weight on my shoulders for can I do this? And fortunately, over the last five years there's been a lot more joy in my life through Inflection Point Partners and frankly having a conversation like this.
- [51:01]
A
Well, Matt, really enjoyed it. Thanks so much for taking the time.
- [51:04]
B
I really appreciate you having me on. Teddy, thanks.
- [51:07]
A
Thanks for listening to this episode. I hope you found a nugget or two to take away and apply in your investing and your life. If you liked what you heard, please tell a friend and maybe even write a review on itunes. You'll help others discover the show and I thank you for it. Have a good one and see you next.