← Capital Allocators – Inside the Institutional Investment Industry
Capital Allocators – Inside the Institutional Investment Industry
Year in Review 2024 (EP.424)
00:30:59
For this year’s annual review, our CEO Hank Strmac and I sat down to discuss where we’ve been and where we’re headed. Our conversation covers the best blogs and podcasts of the year, my investment activity, what’s top of mind for allocators...
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- [00:02]
Michael Lefell
Capital Allocators is brought to you by ten east, an investment platform for sophisticated investors to access private markets. Ten east brings benefits of having your own family office without the cost and headaches of doing so. It's founded and led by Michael Lefell, former Deputy Executive Managing member of Davidson Kempner. Michael and his investment team offer members the opportunity to co invest by offering at their discretion. Michael and his team source, diligence and commit material personal capital to each investment. The opportunities shared on the tennis platform offer exposure to private credit, real estate, niche venture and private equity and other idiosyncratic investments that typically aren't available through traditional channels. The principals have over a decade track record of investing in these types of exposures across more than 350 transactions post investment. The Tenes team conducts ongoing monitoring and reporting just to you'd expect from an institutional investment organization. I've known Michael for about a decade and after becoming impressed by the quality of 10 east offerings, its research process and high quality investment team, I became an advisor to the organization and investor in multiple offerings. You can learn more and join me as a member at 10 East CO. That's the number.
- [01:25]
Ted Seides
10 East Coast Capital Allocators is also brought to you by SRS Acquiam. Want to make sure your M and A processes aren't stuck in the past? How about partnering with a company that's been defining the future of dealmaking for nearly two decades? Instead, when it comes to M and A innovation, SRS Acquiam has reshaped the way deals get done more than anyone else. Streamlining processes for maximum efficiency and minimum headaches. Professional shareholder representation, Online MA payments, Digital stockholder solicitation. Well, SRS Acium pioneered each and continues to set the bar for game changing innovation. So leave the days of disjointed deal management behind and define your future with SRS Acium. The smartest way to run a deal. Learn more@srsaquium.com that's S R-S-A C Q U I O M.com hello, I'm Ted Seides and this is Capital Allocators. This show is an open exploration of the people and process behind capital allocation. Through conversations with leaders in the money game, we learn how these holders of the keys to the kingdom allocate their time and their capital. You can join our mailing list and access Premium content@capitalallocators.com All opinions expressed by.
- [03:01]
Hank Sturmak
TED and podcast guests are solely their own opinions and do not reflect the opinion of Capital Allocators or their firms. This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be relied upon as a basis for investment decisions. Clients of Capital Allocators or podcast guests may maintain positions in securities discussed on this podcast.
- [03:19]
Ted Seides
In each of the last four years, I've written an annual letter and shared it on the podcast. That letter included a review of our content and business and a peek at what's coming down the pipe. This year we decided to reverse the production sequence for this year's annual review. Our CEO Hank Sturmak sat down and interviewed me about where we've been and where we're headed. Our conversation covers the best blogs and podcasts of the year. My investment activity what's top of Mind for Allocators and managers, Our upcoming podcasts, Summits and Capital Allocators University education courses in 2025, the team who Makes it All Happen and few closing questions. I hope you find the conversation engaging and informative. You'll also notice that with the letter we begin our countdown of the top five episodes of 2024. This year's list includes a mix of investors across every asset class.
- [04:21]
Hank Sturmak
Before we get going, we have some exciting news. At Capital Allocators, we're hiring. We are looking for a Head of Business Development to really lead all relationship building efforts with you, our community, the followers and institutional investment space. The role will involve all aspects of external facing engagements. That's our gatherings, whether it's our summits or our universities, from planning to leading correspondence with managers and allocators to marketing the events that have open registration to hosting. The role will also collaborate with existing sponsors and establish new sponsor relationships and then the role will take on any new initiatives that arise. We're always experimenting with new things and we anticipate this person being a leader in those new initiatives. Ideal candidates are someone with 5 to 10 years of experience in financial services or investment management, especially in client facing roles. That could be investor relations, gap, Intro, maybe it's software sales Institutional investors Really what's most important is that this person is passionate about our mission of bridging knowledge gaps and making valuable connections for institutional investors. And without question they are a fan of the podcast. The job spec is in the show notes if you're interested in learning more more and applying. It's also on our website@capitalallocators.com about that's capitalallocators.com about. Scroll all the way to the bottom of the page. Thanks so much for spreading the word about Capital Allocators and our Head of Business Development Job opening.
- [05:51]
Ted Seides
Wishing you a very happy and prosperous New year and hope you'll enjoy Hank and my's conversation about the Capital Allocators year in review.
- [06:02]
Hank Sturmak
You wrote some interesting pieces this year. What piece stands out as one that's going to have legs?
- [06:09]
Ted Seides
The volume of what I wrote this year was less than what I had in the past. The exception to that, of course, was the book. So private equity deals came out. The reality is I finished writing the book a year ago and it takes that long to publish it. So that's one. But on the blogs there were three that I wrote. One called the Investment Office Playbook, one called the Investment Manager Playbook, and then on Yale's Emerging Manager Program that crystallized for me that a lot of what we're doing is bridging knowledge gaps between GPs and LPs. Investment Office Playbook talked about what happens when a new CIO comes into the seat in terms of the timing and pace of the deployment. It's one of those classic a manager comes in and ultimately hears, oh, it's not you, it's me. And they don't really know if that's true or not. So it's trying to give one lens on why that happens. And then on the other side of it, called the Investment Manager Playbook was about growth. My training under Dave Swensen was always the optimal money manager is a boutique single strategy. Doesn't grow, optimizes on performance, doesn't optimize on business profits. And while that's pristine, there's a part of that that doesn't consider the necessity of a successful business in generating optimal investment performance. Oftentimes, allocators see a manager they like getting there early, someone who's great delivering performance, and then they get frustrated as they grow without a true understanding that growth often is really, really healthy for organizations. That's got to be the right cadence of growth. It's got to be done the right way so that the manager and the allocator continues to be aligned. Those two were fun ones for me. That got a lot of people responding.
- [07:55]
Hank Sturmak
Yeah, I think especially with the Allocator Playbook, that was the sentiment from managers that that was an eye opening behind the scenes peak of what happens in the Investment Office on the Manager Playbook. I heard you said recently the asset management industry is a mature industry. How do you think about growth in asset management firms? Given that the industry is mature today.
- [08:17]
Ted Seides
Managers may want to grow because it's healthy for their organizations. There are a lot of those sophisticated institutions that can't offer growth to managers. So think about an Endowment or a foundation that has a mature portfolio of alternatives. If they're going to add a new manager, they're probably kicking someone out. Managers are always trying to look for the next frontier. And those new frontiers today are private wealth, the Middle east, some sovereign, and then in credit, in particular in insurance. So you've seen more and more interest trying to figure out how to address those quite different channels so that they can continue to grow and have healthy organizations.
- [09:00]
Hank Sturmak
Where have you seen asset management firms successful in those new frontiers?
- [09:06]
Ted Seides
You'd have to take each one separately. So private wealth is the one that everyone has their eye on and it is very much driven by brand. You've seen more success from larger managers that can get on the private wealth channels of the bulge bracket banks. There were some astounding statistics that I saw from 2023 of something like $65 billion in assets got allocated from the four large bulge bracket banks to say, private equity, private credit and infrastructure funds. And you could compare that to the four or five largest sovereign wealth funds. And those were only 5 to 10 billion in total. So how do you address retail? Blackstone, the blue chip organization? All of a sudden John gray is on LinkedIn with a series of videos of him going for a morning run in different locations around the world. Totally different attempt at looking at a brand image. So in private wealth you see that it also is a totally different distribution angle. You need hundreds of people that are going to all these private wealth managers one by one. The other end of the spectrum, you have sort of sovereign wealth in the Middle East. Very different relationship development, very different needs. They're looking for strategic partnerships. A manager that do a lot of different things, again lends itself to the larger organizations. And then say in credit and insurance you see all these link ups. It started with Apollo buying Athene and more and more you see the insurance liability base matches really well with credit with some incremental yield, and it's an extremely low cost of capital for the managers. The challenge is that all of those channels make the winners win more.
- [10:47]
Hank Sturmak
Then there's the podcast. Pretty exciting year on the podcast. Continue to grow, continue to have marquee guests. I know it's like asking you to pick your favorite child, but who stands out as a favorite guest that you had on the show this year?
- [11:04]
Ted Seides
Yeah, it's totally unfair. It's so unfair that I need to defer to the audience. I really enjoy the guests I get a chance to talk to and build relationships with. So what I'll go through is a Little bit of my color on the guests. But it's also heavily driven by where did the audience engage the most? Because there were some really great guests across every different area we cover. If you look at legendary guests, Mike Milken came on and then Richard Sandler, his longtime lawyer the next week. So Mike talked about his history and then Richard talked about the infamous case from years ago. On the Allocator side, the first episode and what will be a continuing miniseries on training grounds was with Carnegie Corp. And had Ellen Schumann, Kim Liu, Meredith Jenkins, Elisa Mall. And among the Allocator conversations that got as much buzz as anything. Then as you go through asset classes in private equity, I had the great opportunity to interview the guys at 3G, Alex Baring and Daniel Schwartz, talking both about 3G and their burger King deal, which is one of the most successful private equity deals ever. And that was just an incredible episode. You go to public equity, Cliff Asta's Cliff is amazing. Probably if he wasn't a money manager it would be a stand up comic. And you put that together. It's a lot of fun. On the hedge fund side, I had Ricky Sandler from Eminence. Come on. Ricky's been at it for 30 years. He's really evolved long short equity in a lot of different ways as has been necessary by both the market environment and how the business environment's changed. And then probably the most timely I've ever done, my old partner Scott Besant coming on the day before the election and three weeks before he was named Treasury Secretary. Now I like to say that there's a capital allocators boost when someone comes on the show. I can't go as far as to say that President elect Trump picked Scott to be the Treasury Secretary simply because he came on the podcast.
- [12:51]
Hank Sturmak
Ted, I'll break the news. That was not the reason why he was selected as Treasury Secretary.
- [12:55]
Ted Seides
I guess I'd agree. And then the last one is there's always this stream of interdisciplinary learning. So it's not managers, it's not Allocators, but guess I think their messages can really resonate and help both CIOs and managers be better in their seat. I've had Jen Prosek on a few times. She is unbelievable at understanding and how to deliver a message. And so that's always really fun and gets a really strong reception going to next year.
- [13:20]
Hank Sturmak
Who are you excited to interview?
- [13:21]
Ted Seides
I'm always pretty excited every week in almost any of the interviews because have the luxury of having great guests in this ecosystem. When I get asked who Would I most want to interview that? I haven't. It's a very different answer than most people expect. Which it is, the CIO or the manager who I don't know, but they're amazing. And a couple different of my friends or past guests say, hey, have you ever talked to that person about interviewing them? The last thing I'd say is that the way I have guests come on the show is usually at any point in time I've talked to, I don't know, 60 or 80 people about coming on in the future and then we just wait for the right time. So there are two of those CIOs who I've talked to for multiple years about coming on, who are coming on this year, and there's a manager or two as well.
- [14:06]
Hank Sturmak
Have you made any more investments this year?
- [14:08]
Gavin Baker
My investment portfolio, for context, is really a best idea. It's almost a total portfolio approach, much more than an endowment model. And it's fairly mature at this point. Have a lot of great manager relationships that I love leaning into. So the new investments I made this year tended to be co invests. I invested everything from a sports betting app to an AI company alongside a Gavin Baker at Atreides, to a European snacks business with Scott Spielvogel at OneRock Capital, to a blind pool with Chaz Cock at LB Partners, who just does an unbelievable job when he finds best ideas. And I made two investments in things related to the industry. So one, I'm an advisor at 10 east, which is a platform for alternative investments. They did a round for their operating company. And I also made an investment in Oldwell Labs run by Campbell Wilson, which is the very best software I've seen to help allocators find and monitor managers. So that's most of where my activity is now. Probably the most interesting one for next year, and might sound crazy and certainly will sound contrarian, is a spac, a new spac. So I was involved in a SPAC in the heyday three years ago. We have a great team of people. Some of that team decided to do another one. When we did the First SPAC in 2021, there were something like 650 SPACs in the market that completely disappeared for a lot of good reasons. And in the last year There were only 40 or 50 IPOs of SPACs so far, far fewer, but it still exists now. At the same time, private equity industry has had liquidity challenges. So you've seen the growth of continuation vehicles, a rise in secondary interest activity, and SPACs will not be the next innovative solution. They were just far too maligned from the last cycle. But it is a potential exit route for certain companies. Now, it's not going to be that many companies because there are so few SPACs, but we had a thesis that there will be a need for liquidity from particularly in the middle market. So we're going to be looking for a company that is public company ready, a real business, a hundred million dollars of EBITDA or Greater. Call it 2 to 10 billion dollars of enterprise value with significant revenue. We just listed the IPO two weeks ago. It's Newbury Street Acquisition 2. And we're going to start the hunt going forward this year. It's going to be a lot of fun to look.
- [16:39]
Hank Sturmak
One of the things I'm always attuned to is folks in the institutional community care about what you're thinking, what you're hearing. And so when you think about the topics the institutional community want to hear about next year, what are those topics?
- [16:55]
Ted Seides
What top of mind for allocators are first, let's call it the private equity cycle. So there's some discussion of what's going to happen with liquidity. When you talk to allocators, they're not actually worried about liquidity. This is nothing like 2008. But they are wondering when will distributions come back and how will they address continuing to invest in the private markets? The obvious big one now is this potential for a new economic regime in the us between the new President Scott alongside Kevin Hessard at the Economic Council and Doge, there's some chance that you have a significant realignment of the us, both in the world, and some rationalization of the budget in the US economy. So what are the implications of that are important. And then AI is present of how is this going to change industries and investments on the manager side, all of that always ties into performance and that's first and foremost top of mind. I've yet to have a day in my career where people thought it was just going to be easy to make money, even when the opportunities, in retrospect are easy. There are lots of reasons why it's hard in the moment. On the capital side, fundraising has been really hard. You've had this bottleneck in the private markets that's also affected public market fundraising. And so that capital on the margin, is it going to come from private wealth? Is it going to come from the sovereigns? How are we going to replace the capital that's going out? And then the last big one, I think, is industry structure. You're starting to see Consolidation. We just put out a conversation about consolidation on the allocator side. There's certainly a lot more of that happening on the manager side as well. So what are the implications for that over time?
- [18:32]
Hank Sturmak
How about our business? What are you excited about heading into 2025?
- [18:35]
Ted Seides
It starts with the hub of the podcast and the podcast had just crossed 20 million downloads, basically stopped counting. There's about 100,000 listeners as measured by Apple and Spotify. And then we've got the investment management operations, which I love. As if the podcast is a challenging business because you're sharing a conversation for free. Why don't we do it with a smaller potential audience? And yet it's really found its thousand true fans. So finding those areas where people can engage the right way. And then the business side, there's two pieces. So we have these ad sponsors and I am doing backflips that my great friends at WCM are going to be our lead sponsor next year. Paul Black came on the podcast years ago. Very unique organization. They've been incredibly successful and in fact when I appeared on Patrick O'Shaughnessy's In Best like the Best, talking about the private equity deals, he asks his favorite last question of what's the kindest thing anyone's ever done for you? And from the prior time I had been on the show until then, something had happened that Paul had done for me that was the kindest thing anyone's ever done for me in my life. And I told that story on the podcast. I won't tell here. I'll let people go listen to it. And Patrick's so very, very special, warm feelings towards WCM and very glad to be partners with them. And then we've continued these sponsored insights done about a dozen each year. Those are managers that want to come on the show that we think yeah, they'd be a great guest. They have their own reason and their own timing for want to come on. And they're sponsoring the show and those episodes have been great too. So that's the business of the podcast. The next big leg is our summits. Those summits are gathering very high quality allocators and managers and doing it in a way that leans into the relationship side of the business alongside of the investing side. We'll have our CIO Summit, which is our third annual in April. It's actually already full at filled in two weeks. We'll do our sdm, our Senior Decision Makers Summit in June and then we're adding a new small and Emerging manager summit that will be in September. And like the other ones, there is a twist in our way of doing it. Back in my years at Protege, one of our favorite lines was everyone wants to be first, to be the second investor. And what we're doing in our small emerging manager event is the managers that will invite to come will only be the ones that are recommended by an allocator who's coming. So that every manager who's there, there's already been buy in and due diligence done by someone who's there. So the idea is that no allocator actually wants to meet with small and emerging managers. They really want to meet with good ones. They just don't want to have to go through all of the chaff to find the wheat. So we're going to try to help leveraging the relationships already in place.
- [21:18]
Hank Sturmak
Why don't you share a little bit more about the structure of the summits, because we don't often talk about them publicly.
- [21:24]
Ted Seides
The premise of our summits is that most of the events that take place in any industry match buyers and sellers in their own way. And in the investment industry, that happens in two ways. One is the sellers go on stage and the buyers sit in the chairs. And the problem with that is twofold. One is it's just really hard to do. It's not very engaging to go sit in a chair for six hours. Especially now we have phones in our pockets. And the other problem is that you don't need to go travel across the country to sit in an event to hear great speakers on investing. You can hear them anytime you want. So people are much more available than they used to be. The other type are the Cap Intro events. Our good friend and partner, Ron Biscardi at Iconnections does an incredible job and Global Alts is coming up and that will be an amazing event. So what we try to do is not that fortunately from the podcast, we have the ability to convene really great people and we let them engage with each other and we do it through a combination of some structured and unstructured time. Our structured engagements are all small group discussions and depending on who the group is and what's most of interest to them, those are the topics we discuss and they're two to one allocator to manager. We have a team of facilitators that are all phenomenal people in the industry that come and help facilitate those discussions. And then we have lots of breaks. I'm still on a mission to have more breaks at our conference than anyone's ever had at a conference and then we'll do unstructured things. So there's seated meals and there's some activities and things like that. So we do that for two days and what we find is that it's just really engaging in the process of relationship development, which is probably the most important aspect of capital flowing over time.
- [23:02]
Hank Sturmak
The summits are one flavor of gathering that we've put together. Why don't you share a little bit more about what else we're doing in convening people in this industry.
- [23:12]
Ted Seides
The other big area is education. So we created Capital Allocators University. Our partner Rahul Mudgal and I put together during COVID And the idea for that was there are all these disciplines that people learn in almost any field in the business world except for investing, but they're incredibly important for success in investing. So think of things like decision making and leadership and management and interviewing skills. We teach those in a group of allocators and allow them time to interact with each other. We've now done six of them. The right group of people for that is just below who comes to our summit. So think of it as people with 5 to 15 years experience in the seat. This year for the first time, we added a new course for investor relations and business development professionals that we've just completed. And it was fantastic. So we shared how do allocators view the process of picking a manager? How might a manager go about building relationships and developing a brand? And then we had a panel on conferences which was so good that we're actually replaying it on the podcast. And we had a panel of CIOs talking about what not to do and telling war stories from the investment process. And again, we allowed lots of time for those investor relations professionals to meet each other and share ideas with each other.
- [24:34]
Hank Sturmak
There was a buzz in that room.
- [24:36]
Ted Seides
You don't know when you do this for the first time if the people are going to get together and want to share with each other. But after a day and a half, people really were engaging with each other.
- [24:46]
Hank Sturmak
I think one of the things that was interesting about that forum was it's rare to get investor relations people in the room together without a capital raise component involved. And when you had 50 odd people that are in those roles opt into spending time in a room without a capital raise component, it was pretty special and I'll be excited to do that again. Where else do you see us heading maybe into next year and even thereafter?
- [25:10]
Ted Seides
We're always thinking about different experiments we can do to add on to what we're doing and helping serve this community. And there's one that we've just leaned into and there's one or two that we're thinking about that I think we'll get to next year. That one is strategic investing. So it's making some small investments into startups that are developing tools or services to serve the asset management community in particular. If you think about things addressing the allocator community, allocators have infinite budgets to spend on money management services and next to no budget to spend on anything else. Now that's good and bad. The good part of it is there are a lot of gaps in tools and services that the allocator community really can benefit from that just don't exist because there hasn't been budget for it. And I do think those budgets are opening up. The bad side is, of course, if there isn't budget from it, it's really hard to build a very successful business off of it. So a lot of these I've seen over the years through my friend Ashby Monk, who runs the Stanford Global Projects Institute, also has a small venture fund called KDX Raman lp and we've invested together. There are one or two that I've seen that I think we can be very helpful to their businesses, and we're going to do those as part of the company and we'll be sharing more about those two businesses in particular over the next couple months.
- [26:41]
Hank Sturmak
So we're going to be busy. We have a lot of help. Why don't you give some insight into who are our partners through all of the work we're doing now and all of what we're planning to do into next year?
- [26:55]
Ted Seides
Yeah, well, we're a team of four and when I tell people that most are blown away because we're able to do a lot of stuff. So it's Hank, you and I and our longtime teammate Morgan and then Ahana, who joined us last year out of Notre Dame. The only reason we're able to do that is because in almost every area of the business we have extraordinary partners. The outsourcing goes back at the very beginning on the podcast. We have a great production team we work with, we have a great website developer, our accounting and things like that. When we started doing the summits, we knew we needed to have a team around us and we've been blessed to have the support of members at both Iconnections and Prosec Partners, most notably Jackie Dorman at Prosec and a couple of their team members who help run our summits that just do an incredible job and bring great energy to it. We also have this power duo, Jen and Lois, that I got introduced to a few years ago who are in the event business and are extraordinary at helping us find great locations and work with all the venues and then help run and come up with great ideas for our events. The newer ones are things like data management. We didn't think of the summits as a data exercise, but now we need to track like who have we invited, when did we send the invitations out, have we invited them historically? And so that went from an Excel spreadsheet to an unwieldy Excel spreadsheet to now with some help getting that into airtable and the most recent one is presentations. So my buddy executive coach Matt Spielman introduced me to a guy named Bernie Hogue who is unbelievable at taking whatever scratch presentation I put together and making it not only beautiful, but make it so it's easier for me to give that presentation. So I love saying all that only so that anybody knows if they're looking for help in any of those areas. We've got a partners and are more than happy to share and help them drive their because they all deserve it. So with all those incredible outsourced relationships we've been able to do a lot. But we do think we can do more with more help because the more that I'm able to go on my listening tours and trying to understand what's happening, the more you, Hank as CEO are going to be able to help drive the business. We're going to need more support internally. So we are in the process right now of figuring out who else do we need to bring on the team to have the resources so that we can continue on these fun new initiatives going forward.
- [29:19]
Hank Sturmak
Well, it's fun to recount 2024 and all that we accomplished and excited for next year. I want to close with different rapid fire closing questions. What'd you learn this year?
- [29:33]
Ted Seides
The things that I gravitated to and learned the most from this year have been leaning into what we're doing and making it better and so the areas are around hospitality and storytelling. I am a humongous fan of the book Unreasonable Hospitality. It's a all time bestseller written by Will Guidera and had an opportunity to meet Will earlier this year. What was incredible was that the words that he writes in Unreasonable hospitality that exude this warmth and this energy about making people feel great about experiences are exactly what he's like in personal life. The most authentic consistency you could imagine. So having a chance to Meet him around our events. We've started trying to find these small ways of making experiences just better and better. And when you start doing it, you realize, wow, you can build a process around making things really special.
- [30:31]
Hank Sturmak
Can you give an example of that to highlight what you mean by process of unreasonable hospitality?
- [30:38]
Ted Seides
When we did our first summit, a friend of mine had told me that one of the most memorable experiences he had from a conference he attended was a book giveaway where they had asked everyone for a book that they loved. They then bought all those books and they gave that as a giveaway to go to the bookshelf and pull out a book that you'd like. People love it so much that we've not only continued to do it, but we included that in our registration form. Then we tried to find other ways to make it special. So we're bringing people together so they can meet with each other. One of the things we do is we put in a little note in the book that lets the person who grabs the book know who recommended it. So they can either go to them, then they can read the book. They can reconnect with them after they read it. Finding different ways to turn what was an idea into a full process. It's this fun, exciting, special thing that you can do every time.
- [31:35]
Hank Sturmak
Last one. And this one's familiar. What do you know now that you wish you knew a lot earlier in life?
- [31:43]
Ted Seides
The answer I've given to this won't change, which is the value in asking for help. The power of it I've seen accelerate the last couple years, particularly as we started the summits, because there's no way we could do what we're doing without everyone else. The engagement of the people who choose to come and spend their time with us, the partners that we have, from our production team to iConnections and PROSEC partners and all of my friends who come and facilitate. And every single time we have to ask, you have to ask someone to attend. We ask managers for some of their clients, we ask the clients for some of their managers. And at turns into this flywheel. I have gotten this deep appreciation that it's okay to ask for help, and people do want to help and they want to return those favors that I absolutely love spending my life trying to give.
- [32:36]
Hank Sturmak
Well, Ted, this is a blast and excited for 2025.
- [32:41]
Ted Seides
Well, thanks, Hank. I can't close without expressing both how grateful I am to have you along as my partner for the ride and to be putting you more and more on stage. So people get accustomed to hearing your voice both in our Spread the words in this and next week. Thanks, bud. Thanks for listening to the show. To learn more, hop on our website@capitalallocators.com where you can join our mailing list, access past shows, learn about our gatherings, and sign up for premium content, including podcast, transcripts, my investment portfolio, and a lot more. Have a good one and see you next time.