How To Be An Effective "Number Two" - Part 1

Summary

Podcast Summary

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Career Tools – "How To Be An Effective Number Two" (Part 1)

Host: Manager Tools (Sarah & Mark)
Date: April 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode of Career Tools focuses on practical guidance for anyone tapped as their boss's "number two" — an unofficial deputy or right-hand on the team. Sarah and Mark break down what it means to be a number two, why roles like this are great opportunities for career growth, and what duties you can expect. They emphasize the nuance of the position: you’re not a manager, but you’re trusted with more — and how you wield (or don’t wield) that trust can shape your future. This is the first of a two-part series.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. What It Means to Be a Number Two

• Definition and Context
  • A number two is the first among equals—not officially above your peers but trusted with additional responsibilities (02:02).
  • It's an unofficial designation, not reflected in HR paperwork or org charts.
  • “You're essentially going to be, in military terms, your boss's lieutenant with the boss…being in the role of captain.” – Sarah (05:04)
• Why You Should Want the Role
  • It's a chance for development, mentorship, and insight into what your boss does day-to-day (03:07).
  • Demonstrates to the organization that you’re trusted and potentially groomed for future management, though not a guarantee of promotion (09:08, 12:11).

2. Myths & Misconceptions About the Role

• You Are Not the Boss:
  • “You won't outrank your peers. Somehow. I don't want you to let this go to your head.” – Mark (09:46)
  • You’re not a conduit for all communications nor given special titles or pay as number two.
  • Effectiveness in the role isn’t about titles—it's about being trusted and stepping up.
• Don’t Flaunt the Position:
  • Referencing Napoleon and adman David Ogilvy, Mark emphasizes humility:
    • “Napoleon said, ‘Every soldier has a marshal's baton in his knapsack.’ And Ogilvy said, ‘Yes, he does, but he shouldn't let it stick out.’…You don’t talk about it. It’s like Fight Club. You don’t talk about Fight Club…” (09:46-11:15)

3. How Succession and Delegation Work

• No Guaranteed Promotion
  • The boss can’t officially name a successor; broader promotion decisions involve higher-level leadership (07:22).
• Manager’s Trust Signals
  • Having a number two signals to upper management that a boss develops people and can delegate, building succession strength (09:08).

4. Should You Ask To Be Number Two?

• Generally Not Done
  • Don’t angle for the role unless you have an exceptionally strong relationship and track record with your boss (15:12).
  • Sometimes, bosses don’t even use the language — you may need to educate them or refer them to guidance if you believe the team needs a number two (16:01).

5. Typical Duties of a Number Two

(Transition to actionable content in the latter part of the episode)

Outline of Commonly Delegated Tasks (03:34, 18:58):

• Running meetings
• Attending meetings for your boss
• Handling reporting
• Running major projects
• Presenting for your boss
• Acting as manager during your boss’s absence

“You still have your primary responsibilities, all of them to the same standard they were done before. And also this.” – Sarah (19:50)

First Key Duty: Running Meetings (21:12 – 27:29)

• Why Bosses Delegate This:
  • Managers must run meetings, provide content/input, and observe team dynamics. Facilitating the meeting is the easiest piece to delegate, and it frees up the boss to focus on input and observation.
  • “The one thing that [your boss] can delegate is running the meeting. And the important one of these three is evaluating his people. The least important, yes, he’s responsible for…but the easiest thing for him to delegate would be actually running the meeting.” – Mark (23:57)
• How to Approach It:
  • As number two, you facilitate: send the agenda, keep to time, keep things on track, and distribute notes.
  • It’s not about title or role power—assistants often run meetings with people who outrank them because they’re efficient facilitators (25:42).
  • “If you can’t run a meeting, you’ve got no business being a manager. And frankly, if that’s the case, you don’t have much business being a number two either.” – Mark (27:12)

6. Practical Guidance and Resources

• Prepare by listening to Career Tools/Manager Tools podcasts on running meetings, attending meetings for your boss, and similar content.
• Use the site’s chatbot or search features to surface relevant guidance (21:12-22:35).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Avoiding Arrogance as Number Two:
  “You don’t ever say you’re the number two. You don’t talk about it. It’s like Fight Club. You don’t talk about Fight Club and you simply behave impressively having been entrusted with more responsibility.” – Mark (11:11)

• On Poor Managerial Transitions:
  “At this point in your career, your only possible promotion is to management, where you will stop doing the work you love and use a skill you don’t have and we don’t teach.” – Mark, reading his favorite cartoon (14:29)

• On Helping Your Boss:
  “One of the more valuable, more important pieces for your boss to do has got to drop to the floor, because you can’t drop the running of the meeting to the floor. So…allow them to focus on the things only they can focus on.” – Sarah (24:29)

• On Meetings:
  “If you can’t run a meeting, you’ve got no business being a manager. And frankly…you don’t have much business being a number two either.” – Mark (27:12)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:02] – What is a number two? ("first among equals"), unofficial role
• [03:34] – Typical responsibilities/duties delegated to a number two
• [05:36] – Military/etymology background ("lieutenant" as "in place of")
• [09:08] – Why managers should (and sometimes don’t) pick a number two
• [09:46] – You are not in the leadership chain, don’t let it go to your head
• [11:11] – Ogilvy's riff on Napoleon: humility in the number two role
• [15:12] – Should you ask to be number two?
• [18:58] – First area delegated: running meetings
• [22:35] – Mechanics of facilitating a boss’s team meeting
• [27:12] – Why you must know how to run a meeting to be a manager or number two

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Tone & Takeaways

The episode maintains Manager Tools’ signature blend of warmth and straight talk, with Sarah and Mark using vivid stories and quotable lines to ground the guidance in real-world experience. The message for aspiring number twos: embrace the trust, keep your ego in check, and do the basics—like running great meetings—exceptionally well. Prepare for gradual increased responsibility and support your boss by freeing up their focus for what only they can do.

Up Next:
Part 2 will dig further into the next duties and how to excel as a number two.

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Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Career Tools.

[B]

This is Sarah and I'm Mark.

[A]

Today's podcast, how to Be an Effective Number two, Part one of two.

[B]

As always, our content has been crafted by humans and we are now certified by the Proudly Human Corporation. The questions this cast answers are, what does it mean to be my boss's number two? What do number twos do? And how can I be good at being number two?

[A]

If you want answers to these questions and more, keep listening. There is no shortage of career advice out there right now, but how much of it was actually created by someone who's lived it? CareerTools is proudly human. Every episode, every framework, every piece of guidance you hear is written and delivered by real people with decades of real world career experience. And now certified proudly Human. No algorithms, no shortcuts. Just honest, practical, human advice from people who generally want to see you succeed. To learn more about us, Visit [e-mail] I'm excited about today's Career Tools podcast.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

I think that those people who've been listening to us Career Tools listeners have noticed over the last number of weeks that we are recording many of our core hall of fame Career Tools podcasts. And today we're going to release a new edition for a change. So today we're going to be talking about how to be ineffective number two. And I'm actually surprised that we didn't already have this podcast.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Yeah. And I mean, we talk about all the time about being a number two. And while not all bosses do, smart and effective bosses usually name someone on their team as their number two, their second in command and a number two, being good at being a number two is really good for your career. So today we're going to talk about how to do that.

[B]

Yeah. One of the ways that effective bosses handle succession planning on a small scale, on a miniature scale, is to name one of their direct reports as their number two. It's not an official title. It doesn't necessarily get noted formally by hr, although HR would know you were your boss is number two. It's not a role. Okay, Your role won't change, your s won't change, and so on. It doesn't create a new level on the org chart, putting you somehow in between your boss and your peers. It is definitely not that you are still one of your peers and you have essentially some additional duties assigned to you. It simply means that you are first among equals. But you must not throw that weight around and your boss intends to develop you more than her other directs. As I said, you probably won't get a pay rise, though. You might get a bigger raise than others if you do it well for performance.

[A]

Absolutely. And folks, being a number two is something you should want because of the chance to grow and to learn more about what your boss does. If you have any aspirations of moving up in that organization, getting some insight into, getting some additional time and effort and energy poured into your development is massively beneficial. So today we're going to talk about how to do it well.

[B]

Yeah. So here's our outline. We're going to start with what it means to be a number two. Then we're going to talk about the most common things that tend to be delegated to you or assigned to you. You'll run meetings, you'll attend meetings for your boss. You'll probably handle reporting. You'll run major projects, you'll present for your boss. And this is the one that everyone thinks of. We don't mean to put it last because it's least important, but you'll be the acting manager when your boss is out.

[A]

Yeah. Now, folks, before we go into the content today, I just want to give a little plug out there to Manager Tools. I don't know how many people that are listening to this right now, whether you're on Spotify or YouTube or however you found us, are familiar with the fact that we also have Manager Tools podcasts. And I say that because if you're thinking to yourself, well, I'm not a number two, but I want to choose a number two, should I just reverse engineer this? The things that you and I are going to talk about today? I mean, you could, but you don't need to go to our website manager-tools.com tons of podcasts around choosing a number two and making that identification what to assign to your number two. So this is just the. The recipient version of podcasts that already exist in the Manager Tools feed. So there's that. Go listen there. But first we're going to talk about what it means to be a number two. And folks, what number twos do is serve as an unofficial deputy or lieutenant to help their boss by both managing their team and allowing the boss to focus on top priorities. You're essentially going to be, and in military terms, your boss's lieutenant with the boss, your boss in this case, being in the role of captain. Now, the word lieutenant derives from the French loo, meaning place, or in place

[B]

of, like in lieu of.

[A]

In lieu of.

[B]

There's a use of it and then

[A]

tenant, which means holding. So a lieutenant or number Two, then is the individual who holds the place of the boss or captain.

[B]

Yeah, it's like when I was a kid growing up in Arcadia, California, My brother had friends who worked in Hollywood. And every once in a while, like for award shows, people don't know this. They get filmed on a soundstage in la, and they would need people to dress up and fill in, basically be lieutenants, serve in their place. And when famous people went to the bathroom, me and my high school buddies would dress up in tuxes, and we would go down and we would sit in their place so the crowd would look full. Also, there are musical numbers that are shown in the telecast, but not to the live audience. And so, for instance, we went down there once, and John Denver, because he was up for an award, was one of the presenters. And we sat. I got like 80 of my friends, which is about all you can see, even though the auditorium is much bigger, but about only the first 80 seats are lighted. Enough reflections from the stage that you can see people in the audience. So if you look real closely at some of these things and most people don't, you'll notice that it appears that there are different people in the audience. And by the way, presenters, musical performers particularly, don't like playing to an empty house. And I think we got back in high school, we got like 50 bucks for that for like three or four hours, which is pretty good money. That was over a month's worth of my allowance. I think I got 20 bucks every two weeks.

[A]

And you're seeing cool stuff. I mean, getting paid to go to a show, that's pretty decent.

[B]

And we got to shake his hand and say, he said thank you. We got to meet him. We didn't take pictures, though, because back then, pictures were harder. Now everybody's got a phone. It's super easy. So let's get back to work here. Sorry. Number twos exist in modern organizations to both ease the burden of the manager and to develop you more thoroughly than the other members of the team. If you're being considered as a number two, the presumption, the assumption is, is you're very good at what you do. You're first among equals, okay? But I. I think too many number twos hear that word first and say, wow, you know, that makes me special. But the other part of that statement is among equals, okay? You're still your peers, equals. You wouldn't want to try throwing your weight around, okay? You may not be necessarily named as a successor, but don't worry about that, okay? There are very Few roles, except right before a role changes, that there's actually a named formal successor. Part of the reason that you can't be named a successor officially, when your boss names you as her his or her number two, is your boss doesn't have the authority, the ability to promote you. Were he to leave his role for some reason, that would take at his boss's level, or maybe involving HR even higher. But being a number two does send an important message to the organization about who is most trusted and most likely ready to become a captain or in the normal usage, manager.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. In fact, managers without number twos, as opposed to managers with number twos. Managers without number twos often send the wrong message to their chain of leadership. A number two, or having a number two, sends the message of confidence in your boss's abilities to perform their role and to develop their people. It also says that that boss, that that manager knows how to build trust and can place in another person the trust of allowing that individual to speak on their behalf.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Now, I want to make it clear as a. As a general rule, being number two does not mean you are in the chain of leadership. Okay? You won't outrank your peers. Somehow. I don't want you to let this go to your head. You won't be a conduit for all communications between your boss and your peers. You're just one of the team who has some additional duties. You generally won't get a separate or specialized title. Please don't ask for these things. It will make you seem to be someone who wants a title or wants power. And you shouldn't want power. You should just be ready to handle it when people give it to you. There's a famous quote that Napoleon said about all of his soldiers when he would talk to them before a battle. He said, every soldier has a marshal's baton in his knapsack. Now, a marshal was the highest level of general you could get, other than being Napoleon in Napoleon's armies. And a baton was actually a symbol of rank. It was usually about 2ft long and encrusted with eagles and diamonds and gold and so on. It was quite. It was quite a serious thing. It was not equivalent to a flag of a regiment or of the entire army, but it was a very important symbol of authority. And so Napoleon said, every. Every soldier has a marshal's baton in his next act. Meaning when Napoleon would go down and talk to these kids or adults, they would say, oh, I think you should be doing this, General. I think you should be Doing this, my king and so on. They all thought that they knew what was happening in the battlefield and so on. And Napoleon being the greatest who ever lived and probably ever will. Napoleon just sort of chuckled about that a couple hundred years later, a guy named David Ogilvie. Most of you would know David Ogilvie as one of the founders of Ogilvy and Mather, a famous advertising company which in many people believe was the basis for Mad Men on tv. Dave Ogilvy is famous for many, many famous advertisements. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the Marlboro man was one of them. But definitely he's famous for an advertisement. If you type in Ogilvy and Volkswagen Bug, you will see a picture of a very simple picture of a Volkswagen Bug. This is in the 1950s when they were trying to sell them that just talked about how cool it was. And it didn't have very much text at all. It was a very different style. Anyway. Ogilvy is widely regarded as an incredibly bright guy and had a long career, very successful career. And Ogilvy appended Napoleon's comment. Napoleon again said, every soldier has a marshal's baton in his knapsack. And Ogilvy said, yes, he does, but he shouldn't let it stick out. Meaning you shouldn't go around acting like you're all that. You shouldn't go around acting like I'm the number two. You shouldn't say, well, I get to vote first or I get to vote last and this meeting appears because I'm the number two. You don't ever say you're the number two. You don't talk about it. It's like Fight Club. You don't talk about Fight Club and you simply behave impressively having been entrusted with more responsibility. Okay. Effectiveness is not about titles. It's not about pay. It's not about relative position on the org chart. Simply being named a number two means you are trusted with more than your peers and you've. You've been identified as someone who should be able to progress upwards in the organization. Now, it is also possible that a boss could name a number two who has no interest in being promoted. That would be pretty rare, but it does happen because they're the most technical expert and the boss is not a technical expert, whatever it might be. Generally speaking, though, it puts you in discussions about the right person who might take over your boss's job or be ready to take over some other managerial job as well. And that's one of the reasons why your boss is then delegating part of his or her responsibilities to you so you can learn about those responsibilities before you actually shoulder them in the title role of manager.

[A]

Absolutely. Now, folks, we've mentioned this many, many times in many of our podcasts, career tools, manager tools, and the like, and we have made it very clear that when organizations promote people to be managers, they don't teach those people how to do the job.

[B]

Yeah, Sarah, can I just read my famous cartoon hanging two feet from me here at the end of my desk?

[A]

Do it.

[B]

It's my favorite business cartoon I've ever seen. So much so I asked the author for the original and she said, no, that'll be $10,000, but I'll give you a print for 500. So I bought the print, and it shows what appears to be a manager sitting at a desk with a bookshelf behind him. And there is a woman sitting across from him, and he is saying to her, I'm going to read it. At this point in your career, your only possible promotion is to management, where you will stop doing the work you love and use a skill you don't have and we don't teach.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's about. Sums it up.

[B]

That's what Mike and I had in our mind when we started manager tools 20 plus years ago.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. Okay, so with. With all of that said, folks, different bosses have very different ideas about what a number two should do. And as we've already mentioned, some bosses don't even have one. We can't recommend categorically that you should not ask to be your boss's number two, but what we can say is it's generally not done. Now, if you have an exceptionally good relationship with your boss and you're certain that you are their top performer, you are the person who they're always going to and asking for more, and you are the right hand, if you will, it might be okay to do so. We. We can't know for sure what your boss will think of it, so gauge the strength of the relationship yourselves.

[B]

And it's entirely possible, even though it sounds weird for some of you, I'm sure if your boss doesn't know what a number two does, or for that matter, what a number two is, we would encourage you to point him towards our guidance. And by the way, that guidance is linked to in this podcast. If you have a license, there'll be a link at the bottom of these show notes. If you don't have a license, you can go to the webpage for this podcast. And to the right in the related topics, there will be a podcast about being a number two. How to choose a number two.

[A]

Yeah. And then finally, folks, it's generally accepted that your boss will tell his boss that you are the number two. Now, that doesn't mean your boss won't or will, but your boss may not. Again, we can't be certain whether or not your boss is aware of the fact that they should be communicating to. To other people that you are the official number two.

[B]

Maybe think about it this way. He doesn't tell your boss because he's just trying it out. He's not really sure. Maybe in the first three months that would be okay. I would never ask my boss whether he told his boss because that sounds like you're getting ahead of yourself. Okay, don't worry about whether what his boss knows. Let him manage his vase. However, imagine you start going into meetings for him because the manager is on vacation. And our final guidance is you might fill in for your boss in some situations. And his boss says, what are you doing here? And you say, oh, my boss's number two. He asked me to attend this meeting and to take notes. And now your boss's boss looks like he didn't know that you were named the number two. Unofficial capacity though it might be. And that makes your boss's boss look bad, which you don't. You want to try not doing as much as you can.

[A]

Yeah. If you want to continue to be the number two, for sure, try and do that. So, yes, your boss might be trying it out. They might not have officially told anybody. And to Mark's point, it would be inappropriate for you to suggest to your boss that they make sure they clearly communicate this to others as part of your agreement to fulfill this role. So don't do that. Definitely don't tell your. Your boss. You got to communicate this to people. Melbourne, you're running out of time. Manager Tools will be there in your city, Melbourne CBD next week. That's April 14th and 15th with our effective manager and effective communicator conferences. And there are still seats remaining and you can have one of them. Join us online [e-mail] register. Scroll halfway down the page and you'll see that Melbourne Public Conference event. Go ahead and register and we will see you there.

[B]

So now let's get into the stuff you might be asked to do. First, you're going to run meetings. Okay? If any of these items that we're going to go through, we're going to go through five or Six of them, I think, seem like something your boss might be willing to have you do, but hasn't delegated them to you. You could suggest taking these items off her plate. I want to reiterate here that it's not your job to create the details of your new responsibility. Your boss may give you one thing and let you do it for three months, and then if you satisfy her, then she might give you another thing. And it may be a long, slow process of gradually earning more and more trust. I wouldn't. If I were your boss, I'd probably give you six things all at once, and I'll see how you handle all of them. Well, but you, by the way, your old job doesn't go away. You still have your primary responsibilities, all

[A]

of them to the same standard they were done before. And also this. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And folks, what we're trying to. Trying to get at here is we don't want you to seem too eager. We want you to allow your boss to lead the way. And at times, you might find your boss incredibly busy, and one of the items that they're working on could be something that you suggest taking off their plate, which is. I mean, it's simple enough. I mean, while you and your boss are talking about it and you know, your boss is frantically busy, just saying, do you want me to take that? And if you do suggest something from this first general list that we're going to go over here in a minute, be ready to do it exceptionally well. Again, we have other detailed guidance in other podcasts, which we would encourage you to study between or before maybe even taking over one of their duties. So, for example, we're going to talk about running a meeting for your boss. And we have. We have a podcast.

[B]

We have 20 podcasts.

[A]

Yeah, how to run meetings. Exactly. Or attending a meeting. We have a podcast about how to attend a meeting for your manager. So, yeah, if these are things that you have either been given or you think to yourself, I might suggest are given to me in the future, go brush up on those podcasts so that when they do allow you to run a meeting or attend one for them, you know how to do it well.

[B]

Yeah. And. And Sarah, this is a Career Tools cast. Does Career Tools licensees get access to the chatbot?

[A]

Yes, all licensees. Yep. Career Tools licenses, absolutely.

[B]

So, so you could also just come to our website, use the chatbot, and say, hey, my boss has assigned me running a meeting. What is Manager Tools guidance for running a meeting? And it will not only answer that question with some brevity. It'll also have links to the associated podcasts. That's an easy way to search. The other way to search, you can, of course, use our search bar, or you can go to the map of the universe, which is my favorite page on the website, and type in your search thing. Say meetings, and it might actually say there are too many. So run meetings or run a meeting. And it'll probably cut it down to like 10 or 15 podcasts, and you'll be able to figure out which ones to do first. One of the simplest things you can do as a number two is run your boss's meetings with his team. Now, you're a member of the team, and your boss, in many cases is going to be in the meeting. Okay, but you're going to facilitate. We're going to. When we say run, we mean facilitating the meeting. Make sure the agenda gets out, make sure you start on time, make sure you keep track of time, make sure the meeting stays on track, make sure it finishes on time, and make sure you publish the notes, usually in the form of deliverables, quickly.

[A]

And when a boss is in a meeting with all parts of their team and the boss themselves is responsible for the three things then that are happening, they're running the immediate meeting, officially contributing content on topics where he's got a point of view, though hopefully only after hearing other people's point of view. Because if the manager goes first, everyone just agrees. And then observing and evaluating the team in action. So who talks, who doesn't, who listens, who's listened to, who isn't listened to, who is trusted, like all of the things. So the boss is really doing several things in leading the meeting.

[B]

Yeah, but bosses usually cannot delegate the second piece, which is their input. And the reason we mention these three is because bosses struggle to get all three done because they're running the meeting and because they're providing input. And most bosses don't even know they're supposed to use the meeting to evaluate the relative trust and effectiveness and perceived effectiveness of the people on his or her team. So you can't take that one away from your boss. Your boss watching your peers and watching you as well, or hearing you and making notes about things to talk to you about or opportunities for you to grow or. Or complimenting you with positive feedback or what have you. And he.

[A]

You.

[B]

He certainly can't delegate to you the content he wants to bring up in the course of a topic, but the one thing that he can delegate is running the meeting. And the important one of these three is evaluating his people. The least important, yes, he's responsible for having it done. But the easiest thing for him to delegate would be actually running the meeting. And too many bosses are so busy running the meeting and providing input, they never get to that powerful role of evaluating the team.

[A]

And I mean, think about it folks, you're in a meeting, the one thing your boss can't push to the side, if your boss is running the meeting, the one thing they can't push to the side is the simplest, running the meeting. So if something's got a fall to the floor, they're running the meeting piece, which is the least valuable in a way, if you think about it, that piece can't be dropped to the floor. So one of the more valuable, more important pieces for your boss to do has got to drop to the floor, because you can't drop the running of the meeting to the floor. So again, this is all with an intent of allowing them to focus on the things only they can focus on. But the first running the meeting is something that while it can't be delegated to floor, it is easily delegated to another person. And senior executives often have an assistant outranked by everyone in the room who is running their meetings efficiently. Anyone with some basic training. And we recommend that you learn how to run a meeting well before you're a manager yourself. Anyone with basic training can run a meeting well. And again, the other, the other two things can't be done by just anybody.

[B]

Yeah, I wonder if people picked up on your, the tone of your voice when you said senior execs often have an assistant outranked by everyone in the room. The lesson there, folks, is that you don't need to be the boss of the room in order to run the meeting. The question is if it's clear that you're the facilitator. And by the way, if you're a really smart manager, you're going to teach all of your directs how to run meetings by first it's going to be Bob, and then it's going to be Carol, and then it's going to be Roberto, and then it's going to be Justine and so on. And everybody's going to get a three or four month stint. Now that doesn't eliminate the need to have a number two. So if the boss is not there, somebody can run the meeting or decide who is going to run the meeting. But it's not the role power of your boss that runs the meeting, it's the efficiency of the facilitation and the assumed power. When your boss says, okay, When Sarah says to me, okay, Mark, you can run this meeting, I said okay. Now I have an additional duty. I still have to provide my input, but I'm also now in charge of facilitating to make sure the agenda gets done. And I think it's funny that so many companies now are saying, well, because we're all on zoom and so on, we have to start meetings at 10 minutes past the hour. Actually, if you learn how to run a meeting, you could finish every meeting in 50 minutes. The meetings that are defaulted to an hour, you could finish it in 50 minutes and then 550 minutes. And then you could still have 10 minutes to take a bio break or whatever or check for urgent emails before you walked into your next meeting. And one more thing, folks, if you can't run a meeting, you've got no business being a manager. And frankly, if that's the case, you don't have much business being a number two either. So learn how to run a meeting before you get asked to be number two.

[A]

Thanks so much for joining us folks. We hope you join us again next week as we continue this topic. Now help us help others and tell your friends. And of course, follow rate and review our podcast. And remember, five stars only, please.

[B]

Five stars only, please. Sam.