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- [00:00]
A
Welcome to Career Tools.
- [00:03]
B
This is Sarah and I'm Mark.
- [00:05]
A
Today's podcast, keeping your job search confidential, part one of one.
- [00:11]
B
As always, folks, our content has been crafted by humans and only humans, and we are now certified by proudly Human. The questions this cast answers are, how do I keep my boss from finding out I'm looking for a new job? That's a good question. How do I interview without my boss finding out? And is it disingenuous or unethical to interview with the competition?
- [00:34]
A
If you want answers to these questions and more, keep listening.
- [00:41]
C
Most people become managers before anyone teaches them how they're handed a team and expected to figure it out. The effective manager conference is built for professionals who want to be ready before the promotion, not scrambling after it. One day, proven tools, real practice time results you'll use immediately register as an individual or bring it to your team@manager-tools.com emc.
- [01:14]
A
Marc, I thought we would continue our recent Career Tools theme talking about job searching, job searches. And today we're going to be talking about how to keep your job search confidential. Folks, this is a really common concern that we hear from job seekers in terms of how do I search for a new role without my current employer finding out that I'm searching for a new role? And we completely understand it's a real risk and it's one that's definitely worth taking seriously.
- [01:41]
B
Yeah. There's some simple things you can do, right?
- [01:44]
A
Yeah, exactly.
- [01:45]
B
Yeah. But can I just tell you, when we did this, when Wendy and I did this cast, I was surprised. I was surprised that people needed help. In fact, one of the questions we got, quite frankly, was, do I have to tell my boss? I'm like, whoa, dude, no. Right? You don't. And. And I was just surprised that this was a question. Like, I don't think I ever knew that anyone would think that whatever I do in my own time is my business and I don't have to tell the company about it. Right?
- [02:16]
A
Yeah.
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B
Work and family separate. So I was very surprised. And Wendy said because she had been a recruiter more recently than I had said, oh, my gosh, this is a huge issue. Everybody's asking about it.
- [02:27]
A
You're absolutely right. And folks, we go so far as to say that this concern around is my job search being done with my employer's best interests as well as mine at heart, kind of causes some folks from making a delay in embarking on a job search.
- [02:49]
B
Yes.
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A
Because they're not really sure how to tackle it. So today we're going to Answer that. How do you keep your current employer from finding out about your search for a new job?
- [02:58]
B
Yeah. And it's a very simple outline. We only have two items. First, you've got to change your paradigm. You've got to see this differently than the way you are that's causing you to have that question. And the second one, not to put too fine a point on it. Don't be stupid.
- [03:13]
A
Exactly. Okay, so let's start with the first part. Change your paradigm, folks. The frustrating part about this question for us is that it's really the wrong question. What executives. And we're doing a Career Tools podcast today. So, folks, we know that you're not probably executives, but that doesn't mean you oughtn't think like one in an effort to model your career.
- [03:37]
B
Right. Learn what they know.
- [03:38]
A
Exactly. And, folks, what executives know is there's no binary choice between searching and not searching. Executives are always open to opportunities.
- [03:50]
B
Yeah, we have an entire podcast called Open Opportunities, which I would say, Sarah, I don't know about your conversations. We have separate conversations with lots of people in the community every week, every month. If people are talking about their careers, that's the one I mentioned the most. Of course, I mentioned the interviewing series. And you know, you've got to, if you want to practice interview, happy to do that. But Open Opportunities is my favorite just because of the way it changes people's thinking about the conversations they have. And we're going to assume that many of you haven't heard it yet. When the CFO of a Fortune 100 company is approached by the CEO of a Fortune 50 company asking, would you like to have lunch maybe, and talk about your plans for the future? The CFO doesn't say, no. He doesn't say, oh, I'm fine where I am. It's irrespective. The chance to have lunch is unrelated to. Right. They're literally two completely different things unrelated to his or her complete happiness in their role. And he does not worried about being fined out. All right, The CFO knows that it's up to him, not his company, to manage his career. Folks, that wasn't true 50 years ago, but it is today. You're managing your career no matter what your company tells you. If your company says, don't worry, we've got your promotions and all that stuff. Nope, folks, sorry, that's not so. You don't want to make a jerk of yourself, but no, that's not so. Look, having lunch with this C Suite executive might come to something, and it might come to nothing in terms of the possibility of a job. Okay. It also could create a new relationship that can be in your industry. It's not a problem. You can be friends with other people in your industry. He could find out all sorts of things which are useful to his current company, which, by the way, if the other person offers them freely, you're not a spy. You're not doing anything underhanded. Somebody asked you to have lunch with them, right?
- [05:50]
A
Yeah.
- [05:51]
B
He's not suddenly now in search mode then implying that his boss needs to know he's unhappy. That is not the way this works. I think you said it's not binary. There's this. I can be happy and I can be open to opportunities. Yes, exactly. And those opportunities might be about his career, might be about a merger, might be a joint venture, a customer recommendation. Could be anything.
- [06:16]
A
Could be anything. Exactly. Exactly. So, folks, essentially what we're saying is until the CFO in this case accepts a new role with the Fortune 50 company, he's not doing anything other than. Than discussing opportunities. The opposite of until you got something, you got nothing is until you resign, you're not taking action, you're just talking. And as long as you're not spilling company secrets, there's nothing wrong with talking. There's nothing wrong with chatting with your competitors, seeing what they're thinking of the landscape, what's going on. Sure, maybe we'll discuss a job, but that's. There's nothing untoward about it.
- [06:57]
B
Right. If that were the case, your company would never send you to a conference where you would get to present about a project you did at your company. They wouldn't let you go to some big industry event and give a presentation about something you did because it might reveal something to your competitors in your industry. Or you wouldn't go to a trade show and talk about your products with the competitors right around. Oh, we've got to be careful about that. The fact is, every, particularly, every major company has operations, research people, opfor, oppo, where they're paying attention to what you're doing. And you're supposed to have relationships, and you can. And if you think of yourself this way, open opportunities being found out, found out as a dangerous, dark sort of phrase by your employer is a much less problematic proposition. You're not being found out looking for a new job. You're making a new relationship. You're being found out being open to opportunities, which is literally what every other executive at your level, at your company who's halfway intelligent naturally sees themselves as being. And Every professional needs to be that way. It's too bad that early in people's careers we don't teach. We do.
- [08:20]
A
Yeah. That's what we're doing right here today in Career Tools.
- [08:23]
B
Right. They think it's either being employed or looking because you're unhappy.
- [08:26]
A
Yeah, exactly. So, again, folks, we would encourage you, even though you're a Career Tools licensees or career career part of the Career Tools audience, we would encourage you to change your mindset as well. You don't have to be an executive to start thinking about your career as an open to opportunities mindset. So if your current employer asks, hey, I saw on your LinkedIn that it says contact you for career opportunities, what does that mean?
- [08:56]
B
Yeah, yeah.
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A
What we would recommend you say is with a smile, I'm always open to opportunities. All my discussions so far have convinced me that this is the best role for me.
- [09:08]
B
Yeah, I love it.
- [09:09]
A
I mean, you could say, boss, as you know, I'm proactive about my career progression. Being open to discussing other opportunities is just one part of that. Or being open to discussing other opportunities just means I'm willing to have the conversations about roles which might interest me. I've got no plans to move in the short term.
- [09:30]
B
Yeah, you can have the best job in the world and your profile can still say contact for career opportunities. Boss. I've talked to people who I know are looking because they lost their job, they quit their job, they finished the MBA but didn't get hired in the, in the recruitment process, whatever, and they didn't update their LinkedIn and it shows them as being employed up to present. And now people might look at their skills and say, oh, he's employed, and then not reach out. So I'm not open against my disappointment in this job. I'm always going to be open. I'm amazed how many people I read about in the news, oh, big surprise, that CFO of Company A became CEO of Company B. Well, that didn't happen because somebody called her with an offer and she said yes. I mean, they'd been having conversations. Even though she has lots of friends where she is, and she's probably just fine where she is. But if you're a CFO and you want to be a CEO and some other company offers you a CEO job and you know you're number three in line to be CEO, you're not being disrespectful, disloyal, underhanded in any way to take an opportunity that's better than you. And that's why I Tell people all the time. I tell people, look, I want what's best for your career. I want to make this company best for your career. But I understand if you decide, because it's your career, it's your life, it's your family, it's your kids, it's your husband, it's your wife. I want you to decide what's great. It's my job to make this role great for you. But if you decide something's better, I. I'm your biggest cheerleader. Whereas most of us think our boss is trying to figure out ways to find out whether or not we're leaving. So, again, you can love your job and still be open to opportunities.
- [11:20]
A
Yes, exactly. Now, I can. I can absolutely see, though, Mark, folks out there thinking to themselves, sure, yeah, LinkedIn is one thing, but I'm not sure that I would be able to convince my boss that, say, for example, having my resume on a job board actively were, okay, that seems different. But, folks, we're here to assure you it's not different. Even though I can. I can see how you would think, oh, LinkedIn is. Could be for networking and it could benefit the company and it would look less bad. But, folks, keeping your resume up to date and active on a job board at all times is something we absolutely recommend you do. I mean, you want to know what other opportunities are available because you're always open to considering new things, because it's helpful industry knowledge to know which of your competitors are hiring. Because you want to develop a relationship with a couple of new recruiters, and you're checking out their professionalism, because you're testing the experience you're getting in this role against what's required for your next next step. It could be because you're benchmarking your salary, your benefits, or because you're checking out job boards for when you do want to move. Because ultimately, folks, you're a professional, and professionals work on their careers as well as in their careers.
- [12:52]
B
Yeah, I, I think it's fair in the world we live in today. Let me put it this way. If my boss said to me, well, I don't like all that stuff out there, you shouldn't be doing that. I'd be like, well, this is a problem for me and my boss because the company is not managing my career. My boss, if he or she is average, is telling me almost nothing, Okay, I don't have a development plan. We're probably not doing nine boxes and discussion planning. I'm not talked to about a brag document like KLOTH mentioned in our executive speaker series last week. Right. None of that stuff happens. So I'm happy here and I'm just managing my career. And if I know, too many of my friends who weren't managing their career basically took the company at their word saying, yeah, there's opportunities, and so on. And then we make a strategic error not blaming anybody. It happens. And suddenly the strategy doesn't work and we have layoffs.
- [13:50]
A
So many layoffs happen now.
- [13:52]
B
It's layoff prevention.
- [13:53]
A
Totally. It's your insurance policy, folks.
- [13:55]
B
I don't know how many times we've said it. I mean, I've said it with you. Recording MT Connect. Layoffs are a form of moral hazard because somebody at the top makes a decision, but usually he or she is not the person who loses their job because their strategy, their implementation, their tactic, their new product, whatever, didn't work. And I get that. I respect that. But you can't expect me to respect that, that things may go awry and we have to be careful and I have to save my money and then say, but I can't do anything about keeping my career current. I'm not looking. I'm just keeping my career current. And these are the things I'm doing. You know, I'm always open to opportunities. I keep my updated resume on that board so I don't rely on the timing for my next move and the timing of my next employer coinciding. Right. I already have a relationship with them. This way I don't miss great opportunities. It's just part of the mess. The method I have for managing my career. I like to be available to discuss opportunities anytime. I have no plans to move. I'm not looking for a new job. Those are. You can say that now. If you are actively looking for a job, you don't say, I'm not actively looking. You say, I keep an updated resume on job boards. I think it'll be useful in order to keep an eye on their quality. And the other examples that Sarah used, this is completely fine. It is unfair for any employer to say, we're not managing your career, but you can't manage your career either. It's just not fair. It's not. It's worse than not fair. It's unethical.
- [15:33]
A
Yeah, I think, Mark, for. In my. In my opinion, anyway, individuals think to themselves, yeah, well, putting it on job boards is different because they think differently of job boards. I mean, we only worry about this. Well, job boards are different because in the past, most people only put their resumes on job boards when they're actively looking. So true, folks. What we're saying is the way it
- [15:58]
B
was in the beginning.
- [15:59]
A
Exactly. And we're suggesting that you change that dynamic and instead keep it on a job board all the time, update it every quarter, pay attention to the results, see what's happening in the market, building networks, all. All of those kinds of things. Entertaining the possibility of a change in your career, even though you're quite happy where you are, not limiting your. Your ability to grow in your career should the right thing come along.
- [16:28]
B
Yeah. A good example or analogy to this is your boss notices you're keeping your resume current and they're on job boards because you never know. And having to do that, having a task to do that once a quarter causes you to review your career management document and update your resume and so on different job. Okay, if your boss were to have a problem with that, say, no, no, I don't want you to manage your career. I'd say, well, okay then. I've been talking about more responsibility for a while and I noticed you spending a lot of time with Joe and Joe's getting more responsibility. It seems a little un. I love you, boss. Now, now some of you are listening, saying, I can't believe I would say that to my boss. Well, I encourage you to email Mike, my fellow owner of manager tools, and ask him what kind of political skills I have I had when we were in the army. Now the army's a different place. Neither Mike nor I could leave. Okay, we owed a five year commitment when we graduated from the academy. But while I was there because I couldn't leave, I felt like that gave me a leg up to speak to what I saw was happening relative to my career. And my career turned out good, albeit short. I decided to get out. But Mike would completely agree that I would absolutely say to my boss, look, boss, I get it, but the company's not managing my career. I know I need to manage my career the same way my wife and I need to manage our money. So that if there's a downturn, if there's a Covid, if there's a pandemic, a different type of pandemic, that I'll be able to weather the storm. Okay, we live well below our means so that we have plenty of money saved up. But the other side of that coin, boss, is I've asked for more responsibility. I think I'm doing a good job. If I'm not, you need to tell me. But at the same time, I noticed you're Spending a lot of time with Joe. And I'm thinking, wait a minute. You're saying you want to develop me, but you're spending a lot of time with Joe. How come I have to tolerate that? No offense, boss. I love you, but why should I have to tolerate that? But you're telling me I can't have my resume on job boards right now. Some people, again, hearing that will go, oh, my God. Mark is very bold. And I was, and I am, and I always have been. As I said, Mike will agree with it, but I just feel it's exactly the same thing. And I'm not trying to be antagonistic to anyone. I'm taking care of myself.
- [18:46]
A
Yeah, that's exactly it.
- [18:49]
C
One of the most common reasons professionals skip development is the travel, the flight, the hotel, the two days out of the office. Manager Tools provides all their training virtually same curriculum, same behavioral framework, same practice time. Fully virtual, fully live, and fully worth your day. See all of our upcoming options@manager-tools.com register.
- [19:21]
A
All right, so, folks, let's move now into the second part of our guidance today, which is don't be stupid.
- [19:28]
B
Yeah.
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A
Now, folks, some managers will be understanding about your being open to opportunities. Some insecure managers won't. They won't believe you, which is one reason for this to be a consistent behavior, not just when you're searching. You ought to be doing this so that you can work for a secure manager who allows for you to do things like be open to opportunities without repercussion, if you will.
- [20:00]
B
At my old company, at Horsefin Company, I had over 100 employees. An anonymous employee sent me a note saying, hey, this person who is in South Carolina has her resume on a job.
- [20:14]
C
Oh, really?
- [20:16]
B
Yeah, an employee. A good employee. I, you know, good doing good work. And this is back before text messaging and everything was on the phone. Zoom didn't exist. Everything was on the phone. And so I just called, and as it happened, I got voicemail. And I said, hey, I just want to let you know something. I heard that your resume is on a job board. I want you to know. Okay, I know, and it's okay. I. I don't mind. Okay. It's okay that you try that. There's something new. This is right when they were first getting interesting. I'm totally okay with it. Please don't take it down. Don't be embarrassed. You have to manage your career. I'll be your biggest cheerleader. If you find a better role for you and your family, I'm going to wish you well. I'm going to be the boss that it's easy to leave if you're making it for the right decision. At the same time, hard to leave because I'm handling this so professionally and with personal concern for you and your family. And she called crying. That's not what I don't, you know, but that's how I feel about it. And I think it's a two way street. And too many managers in my experience think it's a one way street. Oh no, we don't have to be loyal to you. We might lay you off, but you have to be loyal to us. And you use the word that I really like, insecure. So if you can't always. Since you can't always tell what kind of manager you have, don't be stupid. So here are a few things not to do when engaged in a job search. If you do them, your intent will be obvious and will come across as though you're on the hunt as opposed to just managing your career and being open to opportunities. I'll just mention the first one. I'll let Sarah take the rest. Don't create your resume on your work computer. Don't print it on your work printer. Don't leave it on your desk. It's just a bad idea. It is seen as a finger in the eye. Not as an oversight, but as a finger in the eye which is just not professional.
- [22:10]
A
Yeah, we would also say folks, don't print job descriptions and leave them on
- [22:16]
B
your desk from other companies.
- [22:18]
A
Exactly, exactly. Yeah. No, if you're an internal individual in like the talent management department, you must have printed job description. But yeah, not, not for other roles. Don't have conversations with recruiters while in an office which is not in your home. If you go to the office, we would say don't do it in your office at work. Go somewhere you absolutely, definitely cannot be overheard by anybody.
- [22:46]
B
And it's not the bathroom and it's not the hallway and it's not the elevator lobby. It's downstairs, outside, around the block.
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A
Yeah, exactly, exactly. Don't start scurrying around and hiding in corners.
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B
That's the same kind of thing.
- [23:00]
A
Exactly, exactly. Like being shady. Don't ask for a bunch of time off for doctors and dentists appointments. I say in quotation marks, don't call in sick to go to interviews. Things like that.
- [23:17]
B
Yeah. Basically don't make your job search so obvious with some of these tactics that are well known or will be seen by an insecure boss as a sign that you're Searching, by the way, you can not be searching and go on an interview. That's totally fine. And when your boss says what you're doing, if you don't have a great relationship with your boss, you could say, actually, I just had some free time or whatever. Or you could say, actually, I didn't expect it, but I ended up getting interviewed. I'm not going to take the job, but I just want to let you know. So I. Whether you're working in a shared office or at home, it's just good practice not to leave items laying around, like resumes, cover letters, and like, again, it's a finger in the eye. It's not respectful of the place where you're working. Now, can you have them on your desk at home? Sure you can. Okay. And should you be careful because you might be in a virtual call and be shuffling things and that looks like a resume. Okay, then you do have to be careful about that. You may think there's no way it'll happen, but it does. Don't be that person, or your job hunt will begin much sooner than you're ready for, even though it will probably be for the wrong reason because your boss is being vindictive. It doesn't matter. You won't be in charge of the narrative at that point.
- [24:34]
A
Yeah, that's the thing. It doesn't matter. So, folks, to wrap it up, if you change your paradigm from searching, not searching, to. To always being open to opportunities, the question, are you searching for a new job? Goes away in an instant. When you're always networking, always keeping your resume current, always maintaining your professional presence, there's nothing to hide. No one questions whether an executive is job searching when they're active on LinkedIn or attending industry events. Because executives are always working on their careers, and that doesn't make them not loyal. It makes them professional. And you should be doing the same. Model the executives you know and always be working on your career.
- [25:23]
B
And if somebody expects you to hold a standard, held to a standard where you can't work on your career, that's. That's wrong. It's just wrong, folks. And you're not wrong to go ahead and do it.
- [25:34]
A
That's exactly it. Well, thank you so much for joining us, folks. We hope this helped you. Now help us help others and tell your friends. And of course, follow rate and review our podcast. And remember, five stars only.
- [25:47]
B
Five stars only. Please.