Results and Relationships - Part 2

Summary

Career Tools: Results and Relationships – Part 2

Podcast: Career Tools
Episode Date: June 4, 2026
Hosts: Sarah (A) and Mark (B)

---

Episode Overview

This episode, the second part in a two-part series, delves deeply into the critical importance of relationships in building a successful career. While last week's episode focused on results, this session explores why relationships are just as necessary—especially as one progresses through their career. The hosts break down why investing in relationships early pays dividends, discuss common misconceptions about networking, and provide practical steps for cultivating your professional network—no matter your personality type or current position.

---

Main Discussion Points & Insights

The Career Progression: Results vs. Relationships

• [01:12] – [03:34] Visualization of Career Focus
  • Mark describes a diagram illustrating the shift over a career:
    • Y-axis: Seniority.
    • X-axis: Time (career length).
    • Early career: Dominated by tasks and results.
    • As you advance: Relationships become more and more significant, while specific tasks matter less.
  • Quote [03:19] (Mark):

    "A first line manager, a frontline person, individual contributor, largely about tasks...when you become a senior manager, it's more about relationships because you have to influence other people...At the top, it's about ideas and relationships."

  • Insight: If you neglect relationship-building, you will eventually hit a "brick wall" career-wise.

Why Build Relationships Early?

• [06:45] – [08:53] Three Reasons to Start Now
  1. Relationships Make Your Job Easier
     • Sarah shares personal anecdotes from her time as an individual contributor, where knowing people throughout her organization made it easier to rally support and get things done.
     • Quote [08:13] (Sarah):

       "If you don’t have relationships, people are less likely to pick up the phone...who wants to call a stranger? That’s weird. But also simultaneously, who wants to do a favor for a stranger? Nobody."

  2. Developing Skills and Habits Takes Practice
     • Building the habit of connecting and maintaining relationships early is less awkward and more natural; waiting until you need something puts more pressure on those interactions.
     • Quote [12:42] (Mark):

       "If you wait until the contact you’re making is of vital importance and you’ve never had to ask someone for help, it’ll come out stilted and awkward."

  3. Networks Compound Like Interest
     • The earlier you start, the broader, deeper, and more valuable your network will become.
     • Quote [14:58] (Sarah):

       "Part of the value of networks and relationships is having relationships with people you can’t imagine will be useful. And I assure you, when you look back 10 years from now, you’re going to be amazed at what some of your friends are doing and where your careers have gone."

Myths and Realities of Networking

• [10:47] – [12:10] Don’t Fear 'Networking'

  • The hosts dislike the traditional idea of "networking" as a transactional activity; genuine relationships are about trust, not just swapping business cards.
  • Examples: Knowing about open roles ahead of time, getting the inside scoop, having people recommend you organically.

• [16:35] – [17:31] Careers Take Unexpected Turns

  • Mark describes his own nonlinear path as evidence that you can't predict which relationships will matter, since your future job might not even exist yet.

Practical How-To: Building Relationships

• [18:20] – [23:20] The Two Keys: Frequency and Quality
  1. Frequency – Make contact at least once a month or more:
     • Email, text, Slack, Teams, drop by their desk, grab coffee, or simply say hello.
     • Quote [18:20] (Mark):

       "Relationships are built on two things, only two things. Frequency and quality."

     • “Common wisdom” suggests you must offer value every time, but just checking in is often enough.
  2. Quality – Care about what matters to them:
     • Ask about their work or interests, remember personal details, be thoughtful.
     • Quote [25:54] (Sarah):

       "People judge the quality of communication by how interested you are in them...the people you like the very most tend to be interested in the same things you are."

  • Advice for busy professionals: Relationship-building doesn’t require after-hours socializing—use in-office opportunities, be present, and engage during work time.
  • Story of a professor whose only final exam question was: “What’s the name of the janitor in this building?”—emphasizing real connection over superficial networking.

Overcoming Awkwardness and Common Barriers

• [23:28] – [27:25]
  • Avoid your phone in common areas—make eye contact.
  • Push through awkwardness; the sooner you start, the better.
  • Quote [27:25] (Sarah):

    "Just lean into it, dude. ...You have to go through the awkward to get to the not-awkward. There’s no way around it."

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "The connective tissue at the top of your organization is all about relationships, which is measured by trust." – Mark [04:57]
• "If you don’t have relationships, people are less likely to pick up the phone... you need to invest in relationships to be able to get that help when you need it. And you can't do everything alone." – Sarah [08:13]
• "Network just means a lot of trusting relationships, a lot of friends, a lot of people...a strong network of friends and associates, people who trust you, makes your day-to-day work easier, keeps you informed and opens doors you didn't even know existed." – Mark [11:50, 27:47]
• "Remember, the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." – Mark [14:48]
• "Your future job might not even exist yet." – Sarah [17:31]
• "You simply have to treat people well. And when you meet someone, remember their name and then stay in touch with them. That's all." – Mark [21:54]
• "Put my phone away. Make eye contact with and smile at people." – Sarah [24:09]

---

Timestamps for Core Segments

• 01:12–03:34: Explaining the 'results vs. relationships' model of career progression
• 06:45–14:58: Why start building relationships early? Personal stories and organizational insights
• 18:20–23:20: Practical advice: How to build and maintain relationships (frequency and quality)
• 23:28–24:09: Being present—putting away your phone, making real-world connections
• 25:54–27:25: Quality of relationships; overcoming awkwardness; actionable steps

---

Actionable Takeaways

• Start building relationships now: The earlier you begin, the more opportunities you’ll have to benefit later.
• Build frequency and quality: Regular contact and genuine interest in others are key.
• Don't limit your network: Don’t discriminate by level; relationships at every level can be valuable down the line.
• Use work time wisely: Relationship-building happens all day, not just after work or at formal networking events.
• Push through the awkward: The discomfort is temporary and unavoidable—get it out of the way early.

---

Final Thought

A successful career isn’t just about delivering results—it increasingly depends on the depth and breadth of relationships you foster. Whether you’re a natural connector or task-driven, the time to build your network is now.

---

Transcript

[A]

Welcome to Career Tools.

[B]

This is Sarah and I'm Mark.

[A]

Today's podcast, results and Relationships, part two of two.

[B]

As always, our content has been crafted by humans, and we are now certified by Proudly Human. The questions this cast answers are, what are the two most important objectives early in my career? Why do results matter? And why do relationships matter?

[A]

If you want answers to these questions and more, keep listening.

[C]

Nothing derails a team like a wrong hire. And most interviewers don't realize how little their gut instinct actually predicts. They think they're evaluating candidates. They're actually just having conversations. The Effective Hiring Manager conference gives every professional a proven, repeatable interviewing process that gets at what candidates will actually do on the job. Join us at our next Effective Hiring Manager conference in the Washington, D.C. area. Conferences start on June 16. For more information, please visit manager-tools.com forward/ehmc

[A]

all right, so folks, last time we talked about results. Today we're talking about building relationships. Because the second necessary skill that we all need to accelerate our careers is the ability to build relationships. So we've got a diagram here. I'll explain it in a moment that represents the role of relationships and results over the length of our career. Now, for those of you who are licensees, you can easily refer to the show notes to see this diagram, which I'm going to explain to you in grave detail, but would be much, much easier if you could see the picture of it if you are a licensee. Also note, you could become a licensee who receives our email show notes. So, by all means, licensees, sign up if you want to become a licensee and you want to sign up for email show notes. The words that we're recording and the images we're discussing are all in those and could be emailed to your inbox every single week, which would make all of this so much easier. Okay, so I have got a diagram. It is a rectangle lying on its side. I've got and Y axis, and that Y axis says seniority. And my X axis along the bottom of my rectangle, which is lied down on its side, is time. And what you'll see on this diagram is a line, a diagonal line working perfectly, moving from the left bottom corner of the rectangle up to the top right corner, the rectangle on the bottom. So on the. Let's call it a. It's not an equilateral. What kind of triangle is that?

[B]

No, it's. It's a right. It's a right triangle.

[A]

All right, thank you. On the. The. The Lower right triangle, we've got relationships. And then the top inverted right triangle is tasks. So what you can see on this diagram there is results. So you can see that at the beginning, at the, the, the leftmost of this cube on the Y axis, you can see the tasks take us the entire. It's all about results.

[B]

It's all about tasks getting the work done.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. As we move from left to right, what we see is that tasks becomes smaller and smaller portions of this rectangle while relationships is constantly growing.

[B]

Yeah. So a first line manager, a frontline person, individual contributor, largely about tasks. When you become a manager, obviously you've got some relationship stuff there, if nothing else with your direct reports. And then as you become a senior manager, it's more mobile relationships because you have to influence other people. You can't just do anything you want to do whenever you want. And when I saw this diagram for the first time, actually Wendy was the one that showed it to me, I was gobsmacked. I thought, that's it exactly. And when you look at the top of the organization, you think, gee, they don't seem to be working the way I do on tasks. No, they're persuading people, they're talking about ideas and then they're directing people. And those people are directing trust them because they built relationships with them and the trust is deep and wide and so they can give generalized guidance. And the people, the vice president talking to the CEO or whatever can say, okay, I got it, boss, I know what you want me to do and I'm going to go do it. When it finally gets down to your level, if you're an individual contributor or a frontline manager, it's been broken up into smaller and smaller bits and so it becomes much more task focused. But at the top, it's about ideas and relationships. It really is. And if you get into the habit of not building relationships now, you might think you can get away with progressing in your career without them, but you'll just run into brick wall after brick wall after brick wall and you won't be successful. And a CEO rarely goes down to the production line and bangs on metal to bin something. There are famous stories of founders, CEOs writing code or somebody going down and actually changing things on a production line or something else. They may not come down there and actually do it, but it's still their responsibility to make sure the person down there is beating the metal to the quality and time standard the company needs based on cost as well. The only way they can do that is, have relationships with their team and with their directs and their directs and their directs. If nobody trusts the CEO or the CEO, if nobody trusts the vice president, they're not going to be able. If they don't. If you don't have relationships. Because the way we define relationships is based on trust, Right. That's the measure of relationship. If we have a great relationship, then we trust each other, right? Yeah. So basically, the connective tissue at the top of your organization is all about relationships, which is measured by trust. If those people are trusted. When it finally comes down to you, there have been a bunch of good decisions made and the work has been properly assigned to the proper people with the proper skills and so on, and it becomes possible for the company to do what it says it's going to do. If there's not relationships. If you haven't learned how to build relationships, as you grow in your career and you become a manager or senior manager, or even if you stay on a technical or a specialist track where you're not managing people, but you're having increasingly larger influence across the organization, you won't have any influence without trusting relationships. Because if you're going to have influence, you have to be able to persuade people. If they don't trust you, if they don't like you because you act as if people aren't important to you, you won't be able to be successful in the latter half of your career. So start now.

[A]

Yeah. Folks, let's dig into it, because there are three reasons that we want to cover in our content today. So if results are most important in the early stage of our careers, which a lot. My diagram of earlier, they are. Why is it that we're urging you today to develop relationships when you're probably not going to need them for a really long time? There are generally three reasons. First, great relationships make your job easier. So in my previous role prior to Manager Tools, we're a really small company over here at Manager Tools, we know everybody. I was the individual on the team who knew everybody. I mean, if there was a room and people were discussing an individual, they would turn to me and be like, sarah, who's that? I'd be like, you know, the one, you know, the guy, he's kind of short. He wears a hat all the time. He has a beard. No, not the guy with the glasses. No, no, the guy that. That does. Does work woodworking. Like, I just kind of knew all the people. So when I needed something done, when needed help with somebody that I was working with needed Help. I could just call down to a department and be like, hey, can one of you guys help? And I'd get a positive result because I knew all those people, I was talking to those people, I was chatting with them or I was going for coffee with those people. And part of the reason that I got my positive results that, that, that people helped me when I asked for it.

[B]

And nobody else was willing to do it.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Because they knew they didn't have the relationships or any influence.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. So part of it was the willingness, my willingness to make a call because I actually knew somebody. But the other part is because when I called and I asked for a favor, people wanted to help me because they knew I would return their favor. And that's part of the, the favor economy that's at play in your organization. Right. If you don't have relationships, people are less likely to pick up the phone because who wants to call a stranger? That's weird. But also simultaneously, who wants to do a favor for a stranger? Nobody. So it takes both sides, right? You need to invest in relationships to be able to get that help when you need it. And you can't do everything alone. You need other people's help.

[B]

Yeah. What's interesting about Sarah's story, folks, is that Sarah is a high D. And if you know, disc. High Ds are forceful, direct, no nonsense, don't really care that much about. People aren't into relationships that much. Logical, linear, factual, rational. I want it now, I want it yesterday. Why isn't it here? Why aren't you doing what I told you to do? You know, these are the forceful leaders that we hear about. The, the Michael Jordans, the Tiger woods, the General Pattons, you know, the people who make things happen when it's absolutely, you know, the very last moment you give it to somebody who can make something happen. And she's not naturally a people person, but she knew in her role that was important and she spent time building relationships with people. Now, in your case, Sarah, you were in a technical organization in, in a university. This is Univers Alberta and Edmonton. And you had a bunch of technology people around you who didn't build great relationships.

[A]

So I was a far standout from the other non relationship building people around me. It's not that my relationships were great, great, but by comparison they were pretty great. And yeah, I'd known people. Part of it was because I, like many of the people listening to this podcast today, I started at the bottom like I started on the switchboard, like I was the lowest level in the organization. So at that role, and folks, those of you that are listening now in your role, it's really easy to build relationships. You're unassuming, right? No one's wondering if you have an ulterior motive. You're the bottom of the stack. It's the easiest time that ever existed to build relationships because no one thinks you're asking for something or you're going to give them more work they know you can't. You literally are the one that's doing all the work. So, yeah, it was an easy spot and I just carried that, those relationships with me throughout the rest of my career.

[B]

Yeah, look, folks, relationships help you get things done and find out what's going on. You're going to find out before anybody else that the IT system is changing because you have a friend over there and they tell you about it. Hey, these are some change coming. You might want to save your data, right? Or the rules for submitting expenses are going to change. Or that Joe's position that you really want. You've been looking at Joe's position. You think that's a job I think I would really like to do is going to be available soon because Joe has handed in his notice, but it's not official. But this guy is a friend of Joe's and he tells you, by the way, Joe's thinking about leaving. Maybe he doesn't know or she doesn't know that you have been thinking about Joe's job and now you have an early leg up. Now you're not going to be surprised. You can get your resume ready. You can start practicing on your interview skills. We have recommendations about how to get ready for internal interviews and other podcasts. That kind of knowledge is priceless. Having a strong network. By the way, folks, we rarely use the word networking here because I know when we say networking, people just roll their eyes and we agree with you. We don't like that phrase, networking. But having a strong network. Network just means a lot of trusting relationships, a lot of friends, a lot of people. You know, good, strong relationships with people who trust you so you can persuade them both within your company and outside of your company as well. Keeps you clued in and ahead of the curve. And I can't tell you how many times I have been in conversations. I didn't realize that I was going to become this guy who knew all these people. I wasn't that way in the Army. I did become that way at Procter and Gamble. And sales taught me the importance of relationships. Because I wasn't going to be able to persuade people that I didn't have a trusting relationship with. And I've discovered that people call me and say, hey, do you know anybody who does this? I'm like, yeah, I do. And I assumed everybody got asked that, and I assume some people said no or whatever. What I've learned is no, people don't ask everybody that. They ask people who they think has a good network. And in my particular case, I have a really good network. I have a lot of friends, I know a lot of people in a lot of different places, or if I don't, I know people who I'm pretty sure know somebody who does. And I'm happy to help anybody who asks. I don't care whether you're an individual contributor. I don't care if you're somebody that I don't have a great relationship with. Because I'm in the favor economy. I want to help people as much as I possibly can. And yes, folks, there are people out there who don't want to help, who if you don't have a good relationship with them, they won't do anything for you again. That, of course, proves the point of the relationship. The second reason we urge you to start now, when your job, maybe as an invo contributor, is still largely tasks, is because you'll be able to develop the skills and habits of keeping in touch before it becomes such an important part of your career. If you wait until the contact you're making is of vital importance and you've never had to ask someone for help, it'll come out stilted and awkward. Every time a human being does something for the first time, we're awkward. It's human nature to be bad at things the first time we do it. But the beauty of being a human is you can get reps and you can make yourself better. And we want you to have those reps now to learn how to easily ask for help. Also to offer help. Hey, if there's anything I can do, please let me know. Even if it takes you a half an hour one day on a busy day at work, that favor is going to be priceless to you later on when you can ask for it back. Not that we're suggesting you keep track of of who owes what favors and how many to you. But if it comes out, if the first time you're learning, this is when you really need to rely on relationships and it comes out stilted and awkward, that's going to reduce the chances of you getting what you Want practice helps even in human relationships. Remember, the more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war.

[A]

Yeah, exactly. And then finally, folks, the, the, the third rule we'd recommend, or the third reason we'd recommend that you start building these network even though they're not important. Important for your day to day is developing a network takes time. It's a little bit like compound interest. The earlier you start your network, keep in touch with those people, meet their friends, broaden your network, the quicker it will grow. And as I mentioned earlier, my experience suggests that if you build these relationships earlier in your career, it is much easier. People don't think you want something from them. People trust you inherently because you don't know very much and you can't give them very much. So they, I mean, they're like, okay, well there's this person who's nice and why not? Part of the value of networks and relationships is having relationships with people you can't imagine will be useful. And I assure you, when you look back 10 years from now, you're going to be amazed at what some of your friends are doing and where your careers have gone. We don't want you to regret not keeping in touch with someone who didn't seem like they'd be really helpful at the time, but in hindsight would be a fantastic person to have as a warm acquaintance. But because you didn't stay in touch with them, they are now a complete stranger to you and you haven't talked for 20 years and voila. No relationship, no ability to leverage the relationship, none of that value.

[B]

Yeah. I think a lot of young people today think they should know what they want to do with their life. And there are a very few people that end up doing what they know they're going to do when they're 21, 22, 23. When I was 21, I was an officer in the army and I thought I might become a general. I decided I didn't want to do that and I went to work at sales and Procter and Gamble, and then I decided I wanted to be national sales manager. Okay. If you'd ever told me when I was 30, 31, 32, that I would run my own consulting firm, sell it, and then run another one, and then be a podcaster, let alone the number one business management podcaster in the world, if you'd ever told me that and that people would come to my house to meet me, I'd say, no, no, no, I don't want to be famous. That's right. In 2000. It didn't exist till 2005 or 2004.

[A]

Your future job might not even exist yet.

[B]

Yes, that's a great point.

[C]

The higher you climb, the fewer people you can be honest with. The M Conference is Manager Tools Annual 2 day executive development event where accomplished senior leaders can come together for candid, practical conversations about what leadership actually looks like at the highest levels. No generic keynotes, no corporate fluff, just real insights from executives across banking, technology, aerospace consulting and more people who are doing the work right now. This year we are in Los Angeles October 6th and 7th. Learn more at manager-tools.com mconference.

[B]

Now, the question for some of you is, okay, Mark, okay Sarah, you're more experienced than me. How do I develop relationships? Well, it's very easy. We're going to break it down. Dead simple for you. Relationships are built on two things, only two things. Frequency and quality. Frequency is easy once a month, if not more often. Create a connection. Email, call, text, slack teams, something. Make a diversion to go past their desk, have breakfast, lunch or coffee. And by the way, the common wisdom, and by the way, wisdom isn't common. So common wisdom usually is suspect. The common wisdom is, oh, if I'm going to reach out to somebody, I have to be offering them something. No, in the world of texting today, you could just say, hey, dude, I was thinking about you. I hope you're good. I get those texts all the time and I'm delighted because they might be on my list to contact them. And now we've connected and I don't. Now I've got one less task.

[A]

Exactly right.

[B]

Time your walk out of the building to coincide with theirs. Oh, I need to make an aside here real quick, Sarah, because when you were talking you said something interesting and I want to point something out. There are some times when people think, ooh, building a network is stuff that happens, you know, after work. And I'll never forget. About a year into Manager Tools, I got an email. This was when I was answering all the emails of the company. It was just Mike and I. And an email came in and said, mark, I really love the career Tools stuff. We had done a podcast about relationships and she said, but I'm a single mom and I chose a job that starts at 7:30 and is done at 3:30 and I can't stay later now, now when my daughter is 10, I could probably get a nanny or I could probably do this, but she's 2 right now and daycare closes at 5 and I have to leave the office at 4:30. I cannot stay. I can't go to drinks, I can't stay for late night bull sessions, any of that kind of stuff. And I said, wait, okay. And her name is Wanda. And I said, wanda, don't worry about it. Build relationships internally, okay? You don't have to sacrifice your family to build a network. There are so many people who think the only time they build networks is when they go and have beers with somebody once a month, that they don't realize that they're around when they're in the office anyway. Hundreds of people, okay, look, show up to zoom calls or teams calls five minutes early and say hello to people. Say, oh, we haven't met. I'm Joe and I work in corporate banking or whatever. And I don't think I know you, Sienna. Where are you from? You know, that kind of stuff. You can do it at the office. You don't have to think that networking, which is a bad word and we don't like it, has to happen at the bar or at dinner or coffee or breakfast before work or power lunch or something like that. You don't have to do that stuff. You simply have to treat people well. And when you meet someone, remember their name and then stay in touch with them. That's all. And something else I want to share, although I'm stealing the fire from another podcast where we get into how to build a network. Don't discriminate. Don't decide that you want to know a bunch of vice presidents and then ignore all the individual contributors and the managers and the senior managers around. You know the janitor in your building. There's a famous story about a psychology professor who took his class through psychology. And a big part of it was human relationships and how more human relationships tend to lead to longer lives and how to build relationships. And what do you do when there's a pinch in the relationship? That's what led to our Pinch Crunch podcast, which is one of my favorites. And his final exam in this particular class was one question. What's the name of the janitor in this building? Because they all walk by the janitor every day. And either you had a relationship with him or her or you didn't. And he was. He said, I'm trying to make a point here, guys. You've already got your grades. I'm not worried about your final. But this is really what matters, is how well you connect with people. So know the janitors, know the security people, know the people who come to refill the paper in the. In your printer. If you're in an office, all those kind of things. Harder on remote work. And that's one of the reasons why organizations are asking people to come back to their office. But you can still do it on zoom and teams and so on. Okay, sorry. Walk out of a meeting if somebody is leaving and visit with them for a minute and then come back into a meeting. Or choose somebody to walk out of the meeting with and then follow them to their desk and then go back to your desk. Don't always be so focused on your own to do list. Okay. Part of your to do should be meeting people and saying hello and shaking hands and look them in the eye. Say, hi, I'm Mark, and we haven't met.

[A]

Don't always be on your phone in the in between times. Have a conversation with a person. It's a way more productive use of your time.

[B]

Two weeks ago, sir, I heard somebody write in and say, you know, it's funny because of COVID and because of going to remote, and now companies are coming back to the office. Something that is happening now that wasn't happening before. COVID Covid happened in what, 2022?

[A]

2020. March 2020.

[B]

2020. So March 2020. So we had iPhones. We had smartphones since 2005, 2007. So we had them for 13 years. Before, he said, it used to be when people walked down the hall, they weren't on their phones. But now since we've gone remote, they're on their phones walking down the hall. And he said, I realized something. I got to put my phone away when I walk down the hall.

[A]

Yeah, I got to put my phone away. I got to make eye contact with and smile at people.

[B]

Hi, how are you? Hello. And yeah, And I told this story to this person. I'm like, you know, think about this for a second. Suppose you see your CEO walking down the hall. He's five, six, seven levels above you. What would you think of your CEO if he walked by the walk down the hall? He passed or she passed 5, 10, 15 people, and he was on his phone the whole time, texting or whatever, and he didn't look up and he didn't say hello to anybody. You ding the CEO for that, wouldn't you?

[A]

You know, I'm not sure that's true, actually, Mark, I think. I think it's a better comparison the other way. I don't think that people would ding the CEO for being face and phone, but flip that on its head.

[B]

Oh, yeah. Imagine he was walking down the hall, and you're on your phone and he or she walks by you.

[A]

No, not that one either. No. No. Imagine how it would feel to be five or six levels below the CEO and know how busy that person is and how important that person is and be walking down the hallway and still see them smiling and saying hello and introducing them. Imagine how you feel about that person compared to a person who. I think it's completely reasonable for them to be face and phone and not say hello to you. I think that's completely reasonable. And I don't think that people would ding the CEO for that. But I think if it was a CEO walking down the hallway smiling and saying hi and introducing themselves, people would have a lot better things to say. They might have nothing to say about CEO face and phone.

[B]

Imagine you with your face in your phone and then walking by, CEO says hello, and you look up and realize, oh, that was the CEO just walked by.

[A]

Yeah, that's. That's not great. That's not great either. Okay, so, yes, secondly, not just frequency, but also quality is the measure of a good relationship. People judge the quality of communication by how interested you are in them. I mean, think about your friends. The people you like the very most tend to be interested in the same things you are. They ask about your weekend. They remember your family. They commiserate about your recent breakup. Those individuals whom you speak to who only talk about themselves or are only interested in the things that they are interested in, like football, for example. When you're a baseball fan, you feel less close to those people. You feel less connection with those people. Your relationships aren't as good or as strong because you don't want to spend time with those people. And all of that matters when it comes to relationship building.

[B]

Yeah. So putting those two things together, when you have an opportunity to make a connection, to spend some time with someone you want a relationship with them with, talk to them about something that matters to them. If you don't want to stray into their personal life, that's fine. You can ask about their work, the proposed reorg or reshuffle, whether the new guy's working out, how they felt, the meeting went. Like, everything. The more you practice, the easier it'll become. And now is the time in your career to get started. Even if you're listening to this and you're a manager and you feel like you're behind, you'll catch up faster because relationships will matter more. It's okay.

[A]

Just lean into it, dude. Lean into it. It's. You've got to go through the awkward to get to the not awkward, you have to. There's no way around it. There's no if I wait long enough, the awkward won't happen because I' be a fully grown adult and now I don't have awkward conversations. You will still have awkward. Start now and put that behind you. Eat the frog.

[B]

Yeah, eat the frog. Good one. Okay, summarizing. As we said, getting ahead in your career comes down to two things. Results and relationships. Results are the foundation. Understanding quality time and cost those targets in your role and consistently hitting them or beating them is not negotiable. But results won't take you as far as you want to go. Relationships become increasingly important important as your career progresses and they're important now, even if you're an individual contributor. But they'll become hugely important when you become a manager, senior manager and executive. And that's exactly why you should start building them now before you need them. Because as Sarah said, you it's going to be awkward first. So get through the awkward as fast as you can. A strong network of friends and associates, people who trust you, makes your day to day work easier, keeps you informed and open doors you didn't even know existed. The earlier your start, the more that investment in your relationships compounds over time. It's just like money.

[A]

Just like money. Just like money. Money. All right, thank you so much for joining us folks. We hope this one helped you. Now help us help others and tell your friends and of course follow rate and review our podcast and remember, five stars only. Please.