Carne Cruda EXTRA – Derroteros: Romantizar la tuberculosis, con Sabina Urraca

Host: Javier (Carne Cruda)
Guest: Sabina Urraca
Date: December 11, 2025

Main Theme

This episode of Carne Cruda’s “Derroteros” series, hosted by Javier with guest writer Sabina Urraca, uses tuberculosis as an entry point to explore both the scientific history and the cultural “romantization” of disease. The conversation meanders through fact, literature, humor, and taboo, revealing how societies have interpreted and even mythologized illness.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Defining “Derroteros” and Setting the Tone

• Play around the meaning of “derrotero”: The episode opens with playful definitions and alternate uses of “derrotero,” setting the conceptual framework for a wandering, discursive conversation.
  • “Libro que contiene un derrotero.” — Sabina Urraca (00:54)
  • “Línea marcada en el mapa de mareas para guiar los pilotos o rumbo.” — Javier (00:56)

2. Tuberculosis as Thematic Excuse

• “Hoy como excusa para hablar de otras muchas cosas, os voy a llevar por la tuberculosis.” — Sabina (01:27)
  • Sabina explains her long-standing fascination with bodily decay, bodily fluids, and human taboo (“esputo, escatología”, 01:37), positioning disease as a prism for understanding human nature.
• Inspiration from literature: She mentions reading La montaña mágica by Thomas Mann and notices how tuberculosis permeates the work of artists, writers, and the collective imagination.

3. The Romantization of Tuberculosis

• Why tuberculosis?
  • Sabina interrogates the phenomenon of “romantization,” asking:
    “¿Por qué la tuberculosis está tan romantizada o estuvo tan romantizada en un momento dado?” (01:51)
  • Interest in why tuberculosis, among many diseases, acquired associations of elevation, refinement, suffering, and even artistic inspiration.

4. Historical and Scientific Overview

• Ancient roots:
  • Nefertiti cited as potentially “la primera tuberculosa célebre” (02:17), showing the ancient lineage of the disease.
  • The history connects animal domestication, zoonosis, and the spread into human populations:
    • “Este salto a lo animal y después de lo animal a lo humano, se produce en el momento en el que empezamos a convivir con animales.” (03:44)
• Microbiology in plain terms:
  • Sabina humorously admits scientific imprecision, inviting corrections, but gives a succinct summary of the mycobacterium, the “vacilo de Koch.” (02:51–03:51)
  • Notable for its autofluorescencia:
    “Yo ya veo un componente mágico aquí… tienen una autofluorescencia que emiten, que además es color azul celeste.” (04:51)
  • Memorable quote:
    “Este resplandor mágico.” — Sabina (05:26)

5. Cultural Magic and Mystery

• Magic and beauty in science:
  • The bluish glow (autofluorescence) of mycobacteria becomes a metaphor for the superstitious, mystical reverence the disease acquired.
  • This blends into the myth-making and aestheticization of illness, where even symptoms become part of a “romantic” narrative.

6. Social and Historical Context

• European Romantization begins in 17th Century: “Esta romantización empieza en Europa a partir del siglo XVII, que es cuando comienza esta gran peste blanca…” (05:42)
  • The episode explains how poverty, over-population, and poor sanitation facilitated mass outbreaks.
• Personal-memory connection:
  • Sabina recalls learning about tuberculosis through a darkly humorous Spanish song, sung by her grandfather and father:
    “Somos los tuberculosos los que más nos divertimos.” (06:32)
    • The song parodies tuberculous symptoms, especially expectoration and blood, using black humor to process collective trauma.

7. Humor and Taboo

• Transgressive humor:
  • “Tengo muchas de cagaleras y de todo esto que se daban mucho en mi familia y que yo he agarrado bien.” — Sabina (07:26)
    • The episode makes clear how humor and the grotesque have been coping mechanisms, turning taboo or fear into laughter.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “¿Por qué la tuberculosis está tan romantizada o estuvo tan romantizada en un momento dado?” — Sabina Urraca (01:51)
• “Nefertiti ha pasado a la historia como la primera tuberculosa célebre.” — Sabina (02:17)
• “Yo ya veo un componente mágico aquí… autofluorescencia… color azul celeste.” — Sabina (04:51)
• “Este resplandor mágico.” — Sabina (05:26)
• On humor and family: “Tengo muchas de cagaleras y de todo esto que se daban mucho en mi familia y que yo he agarrado bien.” — Sabina (07:26)
• On dark songs:
  • “Somos los tuberculosos los que más nos divertimos... ensalada de sangre con trocitos de pulmón.” — Sabina, recalling a family song (06:32–07:25)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:40–01:10: The meaning of “derroteros” and framing the episode
• 01:25–01:51: Sabina sets the theme: bodily decay, literature, tuberculosis
• 02:17: Nefertiti and the historical roots of tuberculosis
• 02:51–03:51: Microbiological and zoonotic history, the “vacilo de Koch”
• 04:51–05:26: The “magic” of autofluorescence and mythic qualities
• 05:42–06:32: Romantization in Europe; socioeconomic background
• 06:32–07:25: Personal/family song about tuberculosis, black humor

Tone and Style

• Conversational, playful, and intellectually curious. Sabina openly admits her fascination with the grotesque and with what society prefers not to talk about.
• Self-aware about scientific accuracy. Sabina invites corrections and positions herself as both an investigator and a narrator of collective delusions and fascinations.
• Humor and transgression are essential to how both speakers engage with the topic, reflecting Spanish traditions of dark comedy in the face of death.

Conclusion

This episode of “Derroteros” is part science history, part literary essay, and part personal confession. Tuberculosis serves as a “path” to discuss how humanity has processed sickness through myth, magic, art, taboo, and laughter, ultimately exposing the inventive—and sometimes perverse—ways we give meaning to suffering.

For listeners:
This episode is both an informative and entertaining journey, best for those interested in the intersection of illness, culture, taboo, and humor. By blending science, family memories, and sharp wit, Sabina Urraca and Javier craft a rich tapestry about the enduring human need to mythologize and process disease.