Carne Cruda Extra: Derroteros — "Tener Pluma" con Sabina Urraca (9 de Abril, 2026)

Overview

In this episode of "Derroteros", a supplemental segment of the Carne Cruda podcast, host La República Independiente (B) is joined by writer and journalist Sabina Urraca (A) to explore the concept of "pluma"—an oft-debated trait within queer and especially gay and lesbian cultures. Using personal anecdotes, linguistic analysis, and references to literature, the conversation dissects what it means to "tener pluma," the evolution and usage of labels around gender and sexual orientation, and broader cultural perceptions. The tone is thoughtful, playful, and at times self-reflective about the language used and its limitations.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Introduction and Context (00:49–01:09)

• Host welcomes Sabina Urraca and asks for the direction of this episode:

  "Hoy me gustaría hablar de pluma, de la pluma gay y la pluma Goyo, del tener pluma, de ese concepto y de qué es." —Sabina Urraca (01:09)

• Origin of the Topic:
  Sabina explains her choice to discuss "pluma" comes from a memorable conversation with her mother and a childhood story involving her Aunt Lucía, her bisexuality, and a gifted fountain pen—a symbol that sparks the conversation on both literal and figurative "pluma".

Understanding Labels: "Fem," Binarismo, and Language Caveats (01:23–03:24)

• Sabina reflects on the constraints of labels like "fem" (femme) and hopes for their eventual obsolescence:

  "Cuento con que a medida que pasa el tiempo se vayan como aboliendo estas etiquetas que hemos puesto para de alguna forma movernos o explicarnos..." —Sabina (02:22)

• Discussion of "fem" as shorthand for a lesbian woman who presents traditionally feminine:

  “Está todo mal dicho. Mantiene. Está mal dicho. Los rasgos típicamente femeninos. Está mal dicho.” —Sabina (02:56)

• Host notes:
  While terminology is flawed, it serves as conversational shorthand for social conventions of femininity (03:01).

• Meta-awareness about problematic labels:
  Sabina acknowledges the repeated use of imprecise or binary terms, but says they facilitate discussion, and prefaces listeners not to take these categories as absolute (03:05).

What Does "Tener Pluma" Mean? (03:24–05:02)

• Definition:
  "Tener pluma" describes the visible expression of traits considered feminine—gestures, mannerisms—especially in men, but also applies, albeit less frequently, to women (03:34).

• Expanded Usage:
  The term is flexible and sometimes used for straight people with gender-nonconforming traits.

• International parallels:

  • English: "To be camp", "effeminate", "to act gay", "flamboyant".
  • Spanish: "Pluma bollo", "pluma lésbica".
  • French origin of "flamboyant", highlighting ties with the arts and queer culture.

• Key distinction:
  Having "pluma" does not necessarily correlate with sexuality—straight people can have it too.

• “La pluma no tiene por qué estar relacionada con que te gusten los hombres o las mujeres... Yo tengo amigos que son heteros que diría que tienen pluma.” —Sabina (04:44)

Language, Literature, and Queer Expression (05:05–06:55)

• Literature as a showcase for "pluma":
  Sabina references Pedro Lemebel’s book Tengo miedo torero as a masterful example of "pluma" in language—playful, extravagant stylings that encode queerness.

  "...es un libro lleno de pluma de alguna forma que juega con esta extravagancia del lenguaje. Me gusta muchísimo cuando dice en un momento dado dice el acento marifrunzi de su voz...” —Sabina (05:18)

• Queer slurs and reclaimed language:

  • Terms like “marifrunzi”, “mariflor”, “coliflor”, “colibrí” are used with irony and affection.
  • Anecdote from Chile: saying "se le apagó el calefón" (the water heater went out) refers to a flamboyant, high-pitched scream associated with surprise by a gay man (06:37).

• Gendered expectations and terminologies:
  Just as "pluma" carries connotations for gay men, "marimacho" and "bollo" exist for women with masculine-coded behaviors, though often with more negative undertones.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

About Language and Labels

• "A medida que pasa el tiempo se vayan como aboliendo estas etiquetas..."
  —Sabina Urraca; reflecting on the need for evolution in the way we talk about gender and presentation. (02:22)

• "Estamos diciéndolo en este sentido..."
  —Host (B), clarifying that throughout the episode, labels are used with an awareness of their limitations. (03:24)

On Pluma and Stereotypes

• "Tener pluma está asociado comúnmente a la aparición de rasgos femeninos entre comillas o ademanes exagerados entre comillas..."
  —Sabina (03:34)

• "La pluma no tiene por qué estar relacionada con que te gusten los hombres."
  —Sabina (04:44)

Literature and Queer Vernacular

• "Es un libro lleno de pluma de alguna forma que juega con esta extravagancia del lenguaje..."
  —Sabina, about Lemebel’s Tengo miedo torero (05:18)

• "Se le apagó el calefón."
  —Sabina recounts a Chilean colloquialism associating an everyday mishap with queer flamboyance, exemplifying how language encodes social perceptions. (06:37)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:49–01:09: Framing the episode, the theme of "pluma," Sabina's starting point.
• 01:23–03:24: Discussion about "fem," labels, and the problems and convenience they create.
• 03:34–05:02: Deep dive into defining "tener pluma," including cultural and linguistic comparisons.
• 05:05–06:55: Exploration of queer language in literature and everyday speech, highlighting playful and reclaimed terms within queer culture.

Tone & Style

The episode is reflective, humorous, and candid, balancing critical analysis with anecdotal storytelling. Both speakers approach the topic with empathy and a desire to demystify and destigmatize the concept of "pluma," acknowledging both the power and limitations of the words we use to define ourselves and others.

Summary prepared for listeners seeking a detailed understanding of Carne Cruda's "Derroteros: Tener Pluma" episode with Sabina Urraca.