Podcast Summary: "Sugar daddies de libro: no es amor, es poder"

Carne Cruda - PURO CUENTO #1595
Aired: December 17, 2025
Host: Carne Cruda
Special Guest: Marta Jiménez Serrano
Authors: Lucía Soya Sobral ("Comerás flores") & Bárbara Arena ("Un adiós")

Main Theme and Purpose

This episode of "Carne Cruda" examines unequal romantic relationships, focusing particularly on those where differences in age, gender, class, and power distort the notion of love. Using literature as both a mirror and a magnifying glass, the discussion revolves around how these dynamics are portrayed and problematized in both classic and contemporary works. The show features lively conversations with writers Lucía Soya Sobral and Bárbara Arena, exploring their acclaimed novels about toxic, unequal relationships, and broadens the debate to the longstanding literary fascination with "amores desiguales."

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Introduction: Unequal Relationships in Life and Literature (00:05–06:53)

• The program opens with a reading of Garcilaso’s sonnet about Apolo and Dafne, setting the theme: love based on pursuit and power, not consent.
• The hosts and critic Marta Jiménez Serrano discuss the prevalence of relationships marked by age, class, and gender imbalances, both historically and in literature.
• Quote:
  “Relaciones de amor que son relaciones de poder y que pueden ser relaciones de sometimiento, manipulación y control.” (Host 1, 01:01)
• Examples: From "Lolita" to "Orgullo y prejuicio", literature is rife with stories exploring problematic liaisons.
• The show points out that while times have changed, extreme differences in relationships, especially age and power, have become more problematic—and sometimes criminal—from today’s perspective.

2. The Lolita Paradigm & Social Complicity (06:19–08:15)

• Lolita is discussed as a touchstone for abusive, power-skewed relationships.
  Marta Jiménez Serrano (06:31):
  “En esto de la desigualdad hay grados, hay grises... Pero la de Lolita, por supuesto, sí [es criticable].”
• Vanessa Springora's memoir "El consentimiento" is mentioned as a real-life echo of Lolita, showing how societal norms excused abuse.
• The normalization/romanticization of such abuses in the past is sharply critiqued.

3. When the Woman Is Older: Gendered Perceptions of Power (08:15–10:20)

• The dynamic shifts when the older/more powerful figure is a woman, as in "El lector" or "El graduado".
• The panel unpacks why social readings of these relationships differ—female predators are often minimized as "raritas," highlighting sexist double standards.
• Quote:
  “Siempre parecen menos abusadora cuando es ella… lo leemos como algo más light.” (Marta Jiménez Serrano, 09:15)
• Most literature and culture, though, still reflect and reinforce men’s historic dominance over women’s bodies.

4. Not All Unequal Relationships are Abuse—but All Are Complex (09:58–11:32)

• The panel acknowledges that not every relationship with an inequality is abusive, but true equality is rare.
• Classic dramas are referenced (Romeo and Juliet, Orgullo y prejuicio), and "Orgullo y prejuicio" is praised for its vision of women surmounting prejudices through wit and agency.

5. Deep Dive: "Comerás flores" by Lucía Soya Sobral (12:46–24:31)

• Lucía Soya Sobral recounts her inspiration:
  • The honest, relatable protagonist (Marina), navigating the loss of her father and a relationship with an older man, Jaime.
  • The appeal, for many women, is the novel's realism—female readers have even told her the novel gave them the courage to end toxic relationships.
• The writing process, supported by Marta Jiménez Serrano’s workshop, is discussed with warmth and humor.
• The relationship dynamics:
  • Jaime’s apparent care (gifts, attention) are revealed as control and emotional manipulation.
  • The "love bombing" cycle is unpacked, emphasizing the difficulty in distinguishing affection from coercion.
• Quote:
  “Normalmente es después de castigar mucho también... te bombardeo con regalos y con amor.” (Lucía Soya Sobral, 19:05)
• The novel resists "perfect victim" and "monster perpetrator" stereotypes; characters are portrayed with everyday imperfections and ambiguities.

6. Verticality in Relationships: Between Pedestal and Objectification (24:04–25:22)

• Discussion delves into the dangers of putting women on pedestals (“amor cortés”, Dante’s Beatrice).
• The group agrees: idolization is as much a form of verticality and inequality as overt dominance or abuse.

7. Exploring Class and Power: "Un adiós" by Bárbara Arena (25:26–35:57)

• Un adiós is revealed (for the first time publicly) to be inspired by Juan Carlos I, Spain’s former king.
  • The protagonist is a noblewoman reflecting on an affair with “el invitado ilustre”—a stand-in for Juan Carlos.
  • Arena, herself from aristocratic circles, wanted to portray that world with nuance, moving beyond caricature.
  • Quote:
    “Yo pertenezco a este entorno... me apetecería ofrecer una fotografía más certera.” (Bárbara Arena, 27:43)
• The conversation covers:
  • The deep-seated gender and class codes of the aristocracy
  • How submission and reputation are internalized, with women policing themselves to preserve family honor
  • The role of motherhood, sexual reputation, and being “the object” (the child as the king’s rather than the mother’s son)
• Arena aims to subtly relay the feminist critique within a social class that often rejects it, hoping to prompt recognition and reflection among insiders.

8. Societal Reflections: Why Literature Obsess Over Unequal Love (37:49–38:28)

• Both authors agree: unequal relationships remain so present in literature because they continue to be a social reality.
• Arena adds: “En el amor el equilibrio total es una imposibilidad... ahora hay un esfuerzo muy grande por relatarlo como nosotras lo hemos percibido durante muchos años.”

9. Book Recommendations and Literary "Oráculo" (38:40–50:12)

• Recommended Reads:
  • "El amante" by Marguerite Duras
  • "Tengo miedo torero"
• "El oráculo de Silvia," a whimsical literary forecast, predicts new readings:
  • "Aburridísima" by Izumi Suzuki, Japanese SF stories about boredom, power, and gender
  • "La soledad de Sonia y Sani" by Kiran Desai (out Feb 2026), about love conditioned by class, history, and heritage
  • Future works by Nobel laureate Olga Tokarczuk, leaning into science fiction and themes of power

10. Listener Letters, Literary Advice, and Final Thoughts (50:31–54:35)

• The panel addresses audience consultations about falling for older partners, the difference between passion and intimacy (citing Sally Rooney’s "Gente normal"), and existential uncertainty (with Rilke’s "Cartas a un joven poeta" as balm).
• Quote:
  “Confundió intensidad con intimidad. Así que mucho cuidadito con confundir la tensión con el amor, que no es lo mismo.” (Marta Jiménez Serrano, 51:18)
• Recap: The dangers of both abusive and idealizing relationships, and the hope for true equality or, at least, more realistic and honest depictions in literature.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments with Timestamps

• On power in relationships:
  “Relaciones de amor que son relaciones de poder y que pueden ser relaciones de sometimiento, manipulación y control.”
  — Host 1, 01:01

• On "Lolita":
  “En esto de la desigualdad hay grados, hay grises... Pero la de Lolita, por supuesto, sí [es criticable].”
  — Marta Jiménez Serrano, 06:31

• On the complicity of society:
  “Lo más escalofriante de ese libro... es la aceptación social del entorno.”
  — Marta Jiménez Serrano, 07:44

• On double standards when the woman is older:
  “Siempre parecen menos abusadora cuando es ella… lo leemos como algo más light.”
  — Marta Jiménez Serrano, 09:15

• On emotional manipulation:
  “Te bombardeo con regalos y con amor, y tampoco entiendes muy bien por qué.”
  — Lucía Soya Sobral, 19:05

• On the "vertical" relationship:
  “Estar en un pedestal también es una relación vertical que impide la reciprocidad.”
  — Marta Jiménez Serrano, 24:31

• On motivations for writing about aristocracy:
  “Me apetecería ofrecer una fotografía más certera.”
  — Bárbara Arena, 27:43

• On why "amores desiguales" dominate literature:
  “Lo tiene en la sociedad todavía. Nosotras estamos haciendo un esfuerzo brutal... pero todavía hay una brecha gigante y entonces es necesario que ocupe sitios en el entretenimiento, en la cultura.”
  — Lucía Soya Sobral, 37:49

• Advice to a listener:
  “Confundió intensidad con intimidad. Así que mucho cuidadito con confundir la tensión con el amor, que no es lo mismo.”
  — Marta Jiménez Serrano, 51:18

• On living the questions:
  “Tenga paciencia con todo lo que no está resuelto en su corazón e intente amar las preguntas mismas. No busque ahora las respuestas que no se le pueden dar porque usted no podría vivirlas. Y se trata de vivirlo todo. Viva usted ahora las preguntas.”
  — Rilke (cited by Marta Jiménez Serrano), 52:23

Detailed Structure with Timestamps

• 00:05–01:55: Introduction with Garcilaso’s sonnet and set-up of the episode’s theme
• 01:55–06:53: Overview of literary and social perspectives on inequality; mentions "Lolita", "Orgullo y prejuicio"
• 06:53–08:15: Real-life literary abuse: Vanessa Springora’s "El consentimiento"
• 08:15–10:20: Reversed gender power: "El lector", "El graduado", why society judges differently
• 10:20–12:46: On classic novels and the myth that love overcomes all
• 12:46–24:31: Deep dive with Lucía Soya Sobral on "Comerás flores": inspiration, writing process, portrayal of manipulation
• 24:31–25:22: “Vertical” love; idolization as hidden inequality
• 25:26–35:57: Bárbara Arena’s "Un adiós": class, submission, living with and within power for women in the Spanish aristocracy
• 35:57–38:28: On why unequal love is so common in literature
• 38:40–50:12: Book recommendations and comic future literary predictions ("Oráculo de Silvia")
• 50:31–54:35: Consejos literarios: responding to audience questions, Rilke’s advice, and final thoughts on finding balance in love
• 54:35–end: Farewell, credits, and some heartwarming community news

Tone & Language

The episode balances thoughtful critique with a conversational, humorous, and occasionally ironic tone, characteristic of Carne Cruda. Guests are candid and self-reflective, and the language is direct but warm, aiming to both illuminate and empower listeners—especially women—around the topic of love, power, and literature.

This summary captures the episode’s major themes, expert insights, notable quotes, and structure, providing a comprehensive guide to the conversation for listeners and non-listeners alike.