Casuals with Katie Nolan – WNBA Finals, Phee vs. Cathy, and Not Marrying a Billionaire | with Sarah Spain

Podcast Host: Katie Nolan (SiriusXM)
Guest: Sarah Spain
Release Date: October 9, 2025

Overview

This episode explores the WNBA Finals and explosive off-court drama, focusing on growing pains as women’s sports surges in popularity. Katie welcomes Sarah Spain—host of "Good Game," author, veteran women’s sports advocate, and (famously not) married to a billionaire—for a deep dive on not just what’s happening in the WNBA playoffs, but why the discourse is especially fraught, and what the next era of women’s sports could look like. They talk media misinformation, commissioner-player rifts (especially Cathy Engelbert vs. Nafisa Collier), transforming access stories into action, and the very real barriers to fandom for "casuals." Also: woes of Chicago sports, why don’t we talk more about Paige Bueckers, and the eternal comfort of side-piece teams.

Key Discussion Points

1. State of the WNBA: Growth and Growing Pains

(Start ~26:19, main conversation from 28:23)

Toxic Discourse as a Barrier to Entry

• Katie and Sarah lament how hard it is for "casual" fans to enter women’s sports, especially with online toxicity and gatekeeping.
  • "It can be a barrier even to the people covering it because there are landmines everywhere." – Sarah (29:26)
• There's a sense of intense protectiveness from legacy fans, and also "hipstery" exclusion. The need for more, better coverage with context and stories—not just "human interest mom" pieces.
• Social platforms have incentivized rage; X/Twitter especially is now "like walking into a bar full of people just yelling."

Media and Misinformation

• The infrastructure for reliable, vetted information on women’s sports just doesn’t exist—leaving fans and even reporters to navigate a sea of rumor, fake quotes, and agenda-driven coverage.
  • "One of the worst things about women's sports right now, and particularly the W, is...a lot of misattributed quotes or fully made up quotes." – Sarah (35:04)
• The impact of this is significant and unique compared to men's leagues.

Online Spaces for Women's Sports

• Reddit, Blue Sky, and new podcasts like "Good Game," Sue Bird & Megan Rapinoe's "A Touch More," plus networks like IHeart’s Women’s Sports are rare positive spaces.
  • "You have to find the spaces that are going to actually present the sports." – Sarah (31:27)
• Even subreddits struggle: WNBA's main sub had to spin off a Caitlin Clark-specific sub due to racialized toxicity.

2. WNBA Finals: On-Court Action and Strategy

(WNBA Finals talk at 55:33)

• The Las Vegas Aces lead the Phoenix Mercury 2–0; first game was close, second was a blowout.
• Strategic deep dive, especially around Alyssa Thomas’s role, how Aces are neutralizing key Mercury players, and the impact of double teams.
  • "The Mercury can't get anybody into rhythm. And that's because they're going for the head, which is Alyssa Thomas." – Sarah (57:52)
• Both hope for a non-sweep ("old adage: a series doesn’t start until the home team loses").

Unique Aspects of WNBA Coverage

• Coaches like Becky Hammon and Nate Tibbetts are mic'd up and interviewed live during games, a level of access unfathomable in men’s sports.

3. Behind the Scenes: Controversy, Commissioners, and Expansion

(Major discussion at 39:28 and 49:09)

Commissioner Cathy Engelbert vs. Nafisa Collier

• Highly publicized rift between WNBA Commissioner Cathy Engelbert and star player Nafisa Collier ("Phee"). Rumors Engelbert said players should be "on their knees grateful for the media rights deal," which she denies.
  • "She also certainly did not deny saying that players should be on their hands and knees thanking their lucky stars..." – Katie (49:52)
• Sarah points to a growing disconnect between the front office and players, exacerbated by lack of veteran, trusted media voices, minimal transparency, and the NBA’s tangled ownership in the league.
• Comparison: Unlike NBA commissioner Goodell, Engelbert is expected to be far more player- and cause-connected in the W, but often comes across as out-of-touch.

Connecticut Sun / Valkyries Sale Saga

• Ongoing confusion over sale/relocation, with the league seemingly dictating terms, potentially at odds with best interests of existing fans.
  • "Are you allowed to do that? That doesn't seem right to me." – Katie (41:17)

Upcoming CBA and Labor Tensions

• Most WNBA veterans structured contracts to expire this year, priming the league for dramatic player movement—possibly coinciding with CBA negotiations and speculation about work stoppages.
• Sarah is "optimistic" that, unlike in men’s leagues, fans are likely to side with the athletes.
  • "I think that the shift in just the last couple of years...has made the public all side with the players." – Sarah (42:26)
• Discussion of revenue share discrepancies, with WNBA players making 1/80th what NBA players do for comparable league metrics.

4. Young Stars & Entry Points: Who to Watch

(60:14 onward)

Paige Bueckers

• Historic rookie season: all-star, 44-point game, led in multiple categories—and yet far less fanfare compared to Caitlin Clark or Angel Reese.
  • "The vets love Paige. Diana Taurasi is out there saying she thinks Paige will end up being the best player of all time." – Sarah (61:55)
• Why? Her style is subtle, team not good, and she doesn’t fit the “rivalry” or “viral highlight” narrative—yet she impresses basketball purists.

Caitlin Clark & Angel Reese

• Caitlin’s injury-plagued season, but her meteoric rise is credited as much to her style (deep threes à la Steph Curry) as her identity/scripted narrative.
• Angel Reese, meanwhile, continues to dominate on the glass, but is frustrated in Chicago—both by facilities and team culture.
  • "I’m really worried she’s going to force her way out and I don’t blame her." – Sarah (67:52)
• Star movement could define the off-season.

Cameron Brink

• High hopes but injury setbacks; joins Unrivaled (upstart, player-led 3x3 league, seen as potential disruptor but not a replacement for the W).
• Unrivaled is praised for giving players offseason income and development at home.

5. Broader Women's Sports Updates (NWSL)

(At 72:13)

• Kansas City Current dominating; tight playoff race elsewhere.
• Chicago Stars (formerly the beloved Red Stars) are last—rebrand has NOT gone well.
• Boston Legacy FC will join the NWSL next year.

6. Media, Misinformation, and Challenges for New Fans

(Throughout)

• The lack of centralized, trusted info sources means new fans are uniquely vulnerable to both subtle and overt misinformation, which can quickly harden into toxic beliefs.
  • "We're just at an era where someone sees that while they're scrolling and goes, 'Oh, that's stupid. I hate her.'...And what, no one's doing anything about it." – Katie (36:47)
• Sarah recounts attending the Atlantic Festival and Scott Galloway's remarks about accountability for platforms.

7. Chicago Sports, Side Pieces, and Not Marrying a Billionaire

(76:02 onward, lighter wrap-up)

• Sarah’s deep woes as a Chicago sports fan: Cubs eliminated, Blackhawks rebuilding, and the Pope is a White Sox fan but can’t even deliver a .500 season.
• Spirited discussion of myths (no, Sarah's husband is NOT a billionaire) and audience misogyny: every achievement is credited to a man.
  • "It's so patriarchal that everything I achieve, they're like, well, it must be easy because…" – Sarah (84:32)
• Katie and Sarah commiserate over wedding delays, the perils of hotness maintenance, and why you should have "side piece" teams for emotional backup.

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On entering women's sports fandom:
  "It's kind of hipster like that. Like, I've been here. I know this. Don't come in and say stuff you don't understand. But that's not a very welcoming space for people to enter who genuinely do want to, like, watch and get to know it." – Sarah (29:52)

• On WNBA revenue sharing:
  "There was a Nobel prize winning economist...It should've been a third or a fourth of what the men are making, and it's 1-80th." – Sarah (44:06)

• On misinformation:
  "Did you see what Angel Reese said in a press conference? And I'm like, that wasn't real." – Katie (36:12)
  "Where do you go for women's sports to be sure that if it happened, it would be there?" – Sarah (35:44)

• On why Paige Bueckers flies under the radar:
  "You have to know about basketball to say, is she the best rookie ever?...You don't have to know what you're talking about to argue whether, you know, Angel should've done the you can't see me or whatever else." – Sarah (62:55)

• On the myth of Sarah Spain’s billionaire husband:
  "It's so patriarchal that everything I achieve, they're like, well, but it must be easy because. Or when we go on vacation, must be nice to have a husband…" – Sarah (84:32)

• Killer one-liner:
  "If God’s favorite can’t even get a .500 season right, then maybe…I don’t know." – Katie (90:16)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 28:23: WNBA Finals—barriers to entry, toxic online dynamics
• 35:04: Media misinformation and lack of trusted voices
• 39:28: Misinformation, impact on sports fandom, and commissioner drama
• 49:09: Nafisa Collier vs. Cathy Engelbert, CBA tension, role of the commissioner
• 55:33: In-depth WNBA Finals discussion, strategic breakdown
• 60:14: Young stars segment—Paige Bueckers, Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese, Cameron Brink
• 72:13: NWSL playoff race, team branding woes, Boston’s coming team
• 76:02: Chicago sports misery, wedding humor, and "not marrying a billionaire" myth
• 84:05: On "side piece" sports teams, resilience required for fandom

Tone and Style

Friendly, self-deprecating, and conversational—Katie and Sarah strike a balance between deep expertise and self-aware irreverence. The episode centers women’s sports but never talks down to the audience, effectively showing the stakes without lecturing.

For New Listeners

This episode is a must for anyone wanting a frank, funny, and deeply informed crash course on current women’s sports—especially the WNBA’s messy, thrilling moment—and the systemic issues shaping its coverage and future. Whether you’re casual or obsessed, it’ll make you smarter and more ready for that next heated group chat.

Next steps:

• Check out Sarah Spain's "Good Game" podcast (daily women’s sports news)
• Watch the rest of the WNBA Finals—still time for upsets!
• Support new women’s sports coverage, and fact-check before you share that "quote"!