← Cat & Cloud Podcast
Cat & Cloud Podcast
Coffee Futures Fund: Community and Support for Emerging Coffee Shop Owners - Ep# 443
01:23:08
Cat & Cloud Podcast Cat & Cloud Coffee www.catan…
Loading summary
Transcript177 lines
- [00:04]
A
Cat and cloud podcast, episode 443. In this one, Jared and I sat down with Oshott, founder of the Coffee Futures Fund, to talk about his platform, why he's passionate about engaging with the specialty coffee industry, and what he helps to accomplish through the Coffee Futures Fund. So the Coffee Futures Fund, in a nutshell, combines funding, mentorship, and community to help coffee shop owners build thriving businesses
- [00:31]
B
that they're proud of.
- [00:32]
A
Oxshott also had Jared on his podcast and they co released zine together with some leadership stories. So we'll have links to the podcast and the digital zine that you can read in the description below. Big theme to this conversation is why it's so important and why it's so helpful to be in community. We can all do amazing things, but things really start to come alive when you're part of a cohort that's engaging in the same things as you, that has these different perspectives and different texture to add. It's something that's both helpful and comforting at the same time. So enjoy this podcast with Akshat from the Coffee Futures Fund.
- [01:23]
B
Yeah.
- [01:26]
C
All right, well, I am Akshat. I am the founder of Coffee Futures Fund. Extremely excited and honored to be on the podcast today with you guys. Well, quick background about me. I like to call myself a student of coffee. You know, I've never really owned a coffee shop per se, but I've spent a lot of times with more than hundreds of, you know, coffee shop owners over the last many years across the world. So I'm really a student of coffee. And it all started by my romanticizing the idea of starting my own coffee shop one day. And that's how I got started talking to people, talking to coffee shop owners like yourself. I'm like, sir, how do I do this? I come from an investor background. I come from an operator background. So I've always lived in this founder energy and I've always dreamt of being a founder myself. So when I came to the US actually eight years back from India, I'm like, hey, you know what? I have this big vision. All right, what is that big vision? Start a coffee shop. So that's the start of my journey in terms of being a student of coffee, going through the stages of learning and talking to coffee shop owners, starting coffee shop culture even in Europe, and then realizing, you know what? It's not easy. This is not at all easy. And I did not accept it when and Chris, Jared, I'm not making this up. 9 out of 10 coffee shop owners, like, told me Son, don't even think about it. I'm like, what? Why? And of course, I mean, they were kind and gracious with their story and that gave me a lot of insight and perspective into the life of a coffee shop owner. And, you know, that got me started into this journey after the pandemic to really think about, okay, creating, not looking at, like, keeping my romantic idea of a coffee shop owner aside and thinking more long term and more broad based in terms of how can I really fulfill my vision but at the same time be a partner to coffee shop owners while, you know, fulfill my, you know, my little heart of being a student of coffee. So. Well, it's been a journey. I'd love to, you know, share more about it, how it all came through. But in short, that's me, Akshat, founder of Coffee. If you just found really kind of coffee.
- [03:54]
B
Oh yeah. Welcome, welcome to have you. What I'm always curious as to what gets people excited about the things that they choose to pursue. So what was it about coffee shops or coffee culture that made you, one, think about the idea of starting your own coffee shop and then two, ultimately saying, okay, even though I'm maybe not going to start my own shop, how can I help participate in, in the industry? What is it about coffee shops that makes them feel special to you?
- [04:23]
C
Yeah, great question. So, you know, like I mentioned, I come from an investor background. And just like your world, in the investor background and the operator background, there are, there is no office hour concept, right? There is no nine to five. You're working 24, seven including weekends. And so one thing that happened to me when I was in India was I was drinking a lot of coffee, like five, seven, ten cups a day. And I'm like, I'm enjoying this. But at one point I was like, you know, what am I drinking? What is this coffee? And why, why am I drinking so much? And I'm a really curious guy in that sense. And then I got excited about, okay, you know what, let me look up, is this even healthy? Or you know what, tell me more about coffee. I told Google there was no AI in that world. And so I was Googling in terms of, okay, what is coffee? Give me some stories about coffee that took me to a rabbit hole in terms of I watched a lot of documentaries. I even read a couple of books about the producers, the world of coffee shops. And Instagram was coming at that point. And then you see a lot of cool pictures of coffee shops. And that started, planted the seed in my mind that, hey, you Know what? I have this romantic idea, and now I call it romantic. But at that point, it was very naive of me that, hey, you know what? I want to start a coffee shop. And I was thinking about this transition in my life, moving from India to the US to pursue my mba. This is eight years back. And then the big vision was to start a coffee shop. Chris, back to your point about what really pursued me in a direction that, hey, not a coffee shop owner, but still being in the ecosystem. So when I came to the US in Boston, I was on the, on the road for the next six months talking to coffee shop owners. Sir, how do I do it? I do not have any retail experience, but I want to start a coffee shop. And like I said, I mean, most of those folks told me, son, don't even think about it. And they were, they gave me a lot of time and shared about their experience. And what I learned from them was they are really passionate, right? Because I asked them, well, you are doing it for a decade and more. Why are you saying no to me? And they're like, son, it's a life of grind. There's not a lot of money in it. It's a lonely job. And don't do it just because, you know, it feels fancy. And you can click some pictures and call yourself a coffee shop owner. That's not the real deal. The life is really different. And when I heard that not from one, but many, many coffee shop owners, not just in the US but I went around in Europe and did the same thing, talked to coffee shop owners there where I was studying the coffee shop, I heard the same thing. Life is lonely. It's difficult. Not a lot of money. And then I realized money is not really the problem. It's something more than that. And everybody's feeling alone. Everybody's sort of struggling with the same kind of questions and solving in their own unique ways. So. And I was like, you know what? There is a better way to do this. And possibly I can do something about it in my own smaller ways, but I can do something about it. And that's when I started this community called Coffee Owners Roundtable, where I used to bring together 10 coffee shop owners in a room and create an atmosphere where they could share their experiences. Some person is great at marketing, the other person is great at buying coffee, and the third person is great at team building or, you know, whatnot. So there's. I found this magic in knowledge sharing, in not feeling alone. And there, there I realized that, you know what? This, this is the Infrastructure that is missing. It's not just money. I think money is a commodity. You can actually earn, make or get money from anywhere, if you think about it. But really what's missing is this infrastructure. And that's what got me on this path of, you know, starting Coffee Feeders Fund and not opening a shop of my own.
- [08:54]
B
Yeah, your points. Your discovery brings up so many things that feel very familiar and so many ideas. I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to shelf some of those for later because I'm sure. I'm sure we'll talk about it. I think there's a bunch of different reasons why people feel lonely, frustrated, stressed out, just like they're kind of flying through the. Flying through the world. Anyway, I'm going to couch my opinion on that, but what is the Coffee Futures Fund? I was looking into it a little bit. So in my estimation, I'll tell you what I've gleaned and then you can tell me where I'm wrong and you can correct me. But it seems like there's two parts to it. So one part is this cohort, community part where you've got a collection of people who've been in the industry for a long time who have this diverse knowledge base, are there to kind of mentor, coach, shepherd people through whatever journey they're on. And then there's another part of it that actually is the funding part, where you're identifying hopeful shops that have a purpose and are. I mean, it seems like you're essentially giving them a. A loan. Is that correct? There's. There's some money to be had here. Yeah. You break it down for me. Tell me, tell me what I'm doing wrong.
- [10:10]
C
No, you're doing perfectly, actually. So you're absolutely right in the sense that, you know, we at Coffee Futures Fund, we truly believe that we want to build a village for coffee shop owners. I think our industry has done a lot of justice in focusing on the product for the last 30 years, which is coffee, and getting it right. The story, the quality, all of it. But where the industry has not done justice, I believe, in my humble opinion, is supporting the people behind the scenes. The owners, right, they're still doing the same thing their own way, still struggling. Jared. Chris, what you did in 2015, when you started your own coffee shop is the same exact thing, the same exact mistakes that a young coffee shop owner is doing today when they're starting their coffee shop. So Coffee Futures Fund is really building that village where you're not alone. You have access to resources that you can tap into, and money is just one part of it. You know, honestly, money is not even the most exciting part of it, if I, if I'm honest with you, because I think it's, it's a. I'll give you an example here. I think about it as a bottom of the pyramid problem, right? So when you think about it, broadly speaking, there are 70% of the coffee shops in the world that are independent coffee shops by count, 30% are national chains and international chains. All of that, 70, 30. But in terms of access to resources, money, technology, people, it's the equation flips. Percent of the resources, technology money still sits with the national international chains, and only 30% is available to these independent young coffee shop owners, right? So that is the bottom of the pyramid problem. Whether. And the bottom is big. It's not, it's not a thin line. It's 70%. So the bottom of the pyramid are where great coffee shops lie. But 60%, 6 out of 7, 6 out of 10 coffee shops fail or do not thrive beyond five years, right? And that's a real problem. So that is what Coffee Futures Fund is trying to resolve through the village idea that, hey, we want to provide access to those resources in a way where you, as a great independent coffee shop, have the right resources to succeed beyond five years. You can really think long term, go long term and not compromise on your vision just because you did not have the right set of resources. And therefore mentorship comes into the picture, therefore community comes into the picture. It's all about knowledge sharing.
- [12:59]
D
Love it. And I want to give you some love. And I think you identified something that, I mean, that we very much share as well and have always believed. The reason we started a blog originally, the reason we have a podcast, so much of the ethos behind what we do comes down to exactly what you're talking about. It's this, the need for more people to share and feel more in community versus Gatekeep. Whatever the secrets are to success, which, you know, they're. They aren't there, there's inexperience, but there's no real secrets to be kept and there's no need to keep them. And so, you know, we've said since the beginning of our, our podcast company, like a rising tide can lift all boats. And these things are all true. And I, I just want to say that I also appreciate you going and, and seeing that need and being somebody who is, is trying to, you know, put together a culture where people are open to Sharing, recognizing that this, there's nothing that you need to keep for yourself. Nobody in this, in like the independent specialty coffee world is coming to take your business and open across the street from you. Like, none of that is real. And I think there's, there needs to be a little bit of a shift there. There's an opportunity. So thanks for being a part of doing something like that. I think it's awesome.
- [14:16]
B
Yeah, it's interesting. Are you familiar with Seth Godin at all? Yeah. Okay. Your glasses remind me of the glasses he wears. That was great.
- [14:24]
D
That's right.
- [14:24]
C
Yeah.
- [14:25]
B
That was one thing that I noticed straight away. But he Copy Futures Fund feels very familiar because he does these cohorts that I've been a part of sometimes centered around different things. Some of them are centered around marketing, storytelling, some are project based stuff. But one of the things that he's kind of identified is that, you know, not just in specialty coffee or not just in retail, it's rarely that it's hard information or knowledge that's holding anybody back. That's not the hardest part of the thing. The hardest part of the thing is feeling like you're doing it by yourself and you're floating out in space with no anchor. You know, I remember he was having a conversation with someone who was, they were some sort of financial analyst, planner, helping people, you know, figure out what to do with their money. And he's like, look, you could write everything you need to know about investing in finance on a paper and it would take you 10 minutes. There's no secrets to what's going on here and what's working. Well, that's not the challenge. The challenge is connecting with people, building that community, making them feel like when they need to make those hard decisions, they're doing it for the right reasons. And, and they're just anchored in a deeper sense of purpose. And I think that's kind of what you're, it seems like what you're tapping into here because it's like, yeah, I mean you could put everything about, here's how the P and L work, here's how you, you know, it's, it's not hard to figure out how to make espresso or run bar, but there are these intangibles and those things are what make the day to day hard. It's not like I'm coming into work stressed out about, oh my gosh, I need to figure out like how to roast this coffee. Like, sure, that's a challenge in and of itself, but that's the Easier part of the whole thing.
- [16:08]
D
It's a little more fun as well. It's a little more rewarding when you get to do A plus B. We'll see. And you see the, the benefits and like the results of something that you did that's special and then you share it right away. So much of this other work, exactly to your point, you, you house it internally, you problem solve it, especially as a young business owner, internally by yourself. And they're extremely important and, and very connective, like high stakes decisions. And you, you shield your team in one regard from it thinking you're a great leader. But there's the other side of that is as a human you only have so much mental energy to give to anything and you're not supposed to be able to do everything at 100% indefinitely without rest, space, time, recoup, support. Like humans don't operate in vacuums, they operate in community. And so it's, it's so, so, so important to notice that. And yeah, you decided to step up and be this, this leader and start this thing that you absolutely believe in and you're like, oh no, there's nobody coming to get me. And I also have to be a good human being, not just run this business for other people.
- [17:17]
B
Well, yeah, I have a small group of business owner friends that I hang out with and I feel like there's some things that only other business owners can understand. And usually or most of my experience is like you open a business and then you're kind of the business owner, you know, you know there's one of you, right? And it's, I'm very lucky because I have Jared and Charles. So we have a small little team that's built into cat and cloud already. But in the beginning it's like cool, it's us. And just to be able to relate to someone else is really helpful for some of these things that I don't know, they don't nag at you on the day to day, but they are real stress and pressure. So I mean one of these examples is we have four locations and we have this roastery. So for every lease that we sign, Jared, Charles and I have signed personal guarantees on all of those. Which means that if this doesn't work out, someone's going to come and take all of our stuff. Not just the business stuff. There's no like protection. I mean we are llc, but it's like there's no corporate entity that just takes the hit. It's like we personally will have to let go of Everything we have. And that's. Look, it's not going to happen. No, but it is a real possibility. But all of these decisions that we're making are kind of weighed. They weigh a little bit heavier. And sometimes it's nice to talk to someone who just understands how that feels, you know. And I also don't want to make it like, oh, poor me, I'm a business owner. My life is great. Like being here and having this team around me as this is the best career path for me. Like, it's provided opportunity and like a freedom and flexibility to do a lot of things. So I'm not just saying, like, we're getting the short end of the stick. I don't believe that. But I, but it is nice to talk to someone else who gets it, especially when the shit starts to roll and you're just like feeling the weight of everything.
- [19:15]
D
Well, and successful or not, it comes with. It comes with all the work that made it successful and helping and working with team members. So even if an amazing team helped us succeed, leading up to that point, you still had to put in the sacrifice, the work, the time and everything else being. And yeah, we're 10 years in, and I'd say we're just in the last maybe two years at a place where we actually have a little more of that proper freedom to kind of get to life. You know, It's. That's still eight years of 24, 7. This is on your mind. And it's still pretty close to 24 7. I call it 246 and a half now. But I mean, it's all, that's all real for the people. And so there's, you know, you don't want to negate that for any business owner out there. Like, to be successful still requires sacrifice and practice and so much intention.
- [20:05]
B
And anyway, when, when you're structuring your, your cohort or the, the Copy Futures Fund, how are you? Well, I have, I, I never have one question at a time. I apologize. I always have two questions. So one, how are you identifying who gets entered into the program? And then how are you identifying who is able to be in that kind of mentor coach position for the program?
- [20:32]
C
Oh, that's a, that's a good question. We spend a lot of time, you know, so I'm. And one thing that I should say is Coffee Fetus Fund is not complete without our founding mentors because they have been with me in the trenches since the time we started building this two years back now. And I say that because we have Spent a lot of time behind the scenes and getting this equation right. And it's not quantitative. Right. It's qualitative understanding. Okay, who should we focus on? Who should we bring into this cohort? And there are a couple of things. I'll speak about the cohort first and then I'll talk about the mentors and the coaches. One thing we realized was, and I was talking to Jared earlier about this, that the one to four year window, a coffee shop owner, an emerging coffee shop owner who is beyond 12 months or of opening their coffee shop, but less than four years, I think that's the sweet spot where the mold is still wet in a way, the mud is still wet in a way. And because the first year is all about I don't know what I don't know. Right. I'm still figuring out. In fact, I'm figuring out, do I even want to be a coffee shop owner. Right. And there are so many things, you start to get a sense of the rhythm again. You're still putting out fires all day, every day, but you're still getting a sense of rhythm. Where what you are doing, where do you want to lead your coffee shop beyond four years, beyond five years, is a time when you are. You have really solidified your structure for good or bad, but it's sort of solidified and it's hard to make changes how to make those shifts, course corrections. And therefore, this is the sweet spot. Any coffee shop owner, we focused on us, by the way, so right now we are focused on us. We are focused on coffee shop owners in that emerging phase, one to four years. And by design, we have kept it small, right? Because we want to really handhold and be partners of these coffee shop owners. And therefore we spend a lot of time including the men. Therefore, big props to the mentors because they really put a lot of time and effort with these coffee shop owners who are our mentees or participants, whatever you call it, but part of the program so that we keep it small, we can really focus them and give them personalized individual attention while we create this community and resources and all the things. So what we seek in that case from this emerging person is one, I think there are actually a couple of things. The first piece is commitment, because this is not just any regular conference or a webinar that you go one day, you spend a couple of hours and you're back home, right? This is serious work and you want people who can really put in the work because you're gaining, you have access to this resource and Then again, interestingly, we just had a mentor board meeting last evening and we were talking about the same thing, that the resources that we are making available is meaningful. And this is. And when I say resource again, the primary piece is the mentor time. Because folks like you, you have been there, done that, right? And when you bring that decade worth of experience to these emerging coffee shop owners, you have to really value it. So commitment is first, that you are ready to commit and give time. Second is quotability. Go ahead.
- [24:04]
B
I was going to say, how do you gauge that when you're bringing new people in or talking to people?
- [24:09]
C
Oh, well, there is some art and science to it and of course
- [24:14]
B
I
- [24:14]
C
won't call it hack, but there's a trick in a way that you can quickly gauge, right? So when we do our applications, we have a three step application process, by the way. So the long answer is we have a three step application process. The first is online applications. You submit an application, we do a read, we select a bunch of people, then we do a quick phone screening just to get a better sense of okay, what did you say? What do you really mean? Are you really real human with real same ideas? Because in the world of AI, anyone can write up a nice application, right? Step is a real interview, one hour in person. When I say in person, I mean it's online, but it's live interview with the folks. So that we have a three step process. So we stretch it out so that gives us an indication in terms of people are committed, people are spending the time and they are coming in these conversations. Seriously? That's one. And you know the hack that I was talking about is I've seen this work and especially it's worked really well in the first cohort, by the way. We selected one out of seven applications last year. And if someone responds quickly in the first, let's say so again, right? It's an online application and you can track. This is not what we do. This is just the application and the tool that we use. You can track when someone opened an application and when someone actually press submit. It could be several days if someone kept it in the draft, or it could be just a few minutes, depending how quickly they wrote up. So a person who completes an application within 24 hours is high on that commitment bar because someone's serious and someone wants to do it. So that's a quick early indicator.
- [25:55]
B
Cool, I like that. Yeah.
- [26:01]
A
All right. I gotta tell you about the truth.
- [26:02]
B
The truth.
- [26:04]
A
Several times a year we launch coffees that are just pure insanity and if you see the truth on the bag, that's what you're in for. Pure insanity. So this truth launch that we're just doing right now, let's go. Let me tell you about this stuff. Truhi and Angelita. We've had coffee from here before. From Patio Bonita, Calca, Colombia. This one is a whoosh, whoosh variety, naturally processed. Let me hit you with some flavor notes, all right? Trip out on this pop rocks candy. Ever had it?
- [26:33]
B
It's freaking crazy.
- [26:34]
A
Candied pineapple, delicious strawberry granita. These are wild ass flavors. This is a funky, wild, psychedelic, trance music, rave style coffee. If you're into the wild stuff, this is what you want to have have. That's what you can expect from the truth time and time again. Let me hit you with a few more buzzwords. Some of these are more enticing than others, but it's an adventure here. Okay, go with me. Ph levels, bacterial growth. What the. Sanitize with vinegar, sugar, chemistry, moisture monitoring, controlled oxidation. It's like a sudoku word puzzle that I'm hitting you guys with. If any of these things sound interesting or enticing to you, you might want
- [27:16]
B
to check out this coffee.
- [27:17]
A
This is some crazy stuff. Brew it, pour over, make it a single origin espresso.
- [27:23]
B
That's what I would do, but you
- [27:24]
A
know, you gotta be up for the adventure. So again, we'll be doing truth launches four times a year. This is the first official one. It's for you wild children out there that just have to be on the adventure. I understand you. I get what you're going for.
- [27:40]
B
Grab the truth.
- [27:40]
A
All right, back to the episode. Peace.
- [27:45]
D
I like it. And mentors and coaches. How does that work?
- [27:48]
C
Yeah, mentors and coaches again, it's. It's again, real operator experience. Right? That's the primary piece because it's not you. You can bring in experts who are, you know, like Seth Gordon's of the world, who are great at marketing and storytelling. Because again, any, any business, especially coffee. Coffee, I believe, you know, is the most human businesses out of the business in the world. It's the most human business, right? You're dealing with real people, you know their names, etc. So you can bring like a finance expert, a marketing expert, and a bunch of other people from all across industries, but someone who has real experience, operator experience, running a coffee shop is the primary piece, I believe. And of course, over the years, for example, you, Chris, Jared, you both have been doing CAD and Cloud over the last 10 years, but I'm sure you you both have certain capabilities that are distinct to yourself, and that is how you beautifully complement each other. Right. So I think those things naturally stand out with exceptional operators. But that's what we're looking for, primarily people who can give the time, people who want to give back to these emerging coffee shop owners and who have that real operator experience.
- [28:58]
B
So how do you meet those people? You said you've been in the US for eight years now, is that right?
- [29:02]
D
Yeah, that was my first India.
- [29:03]
B
So it's like you show up and then now what?
- [29:08]
D
Now your friends with Trevor Corletta.
- [29:10]
B
How do you get plugged in?
- [29:12]
C
Well, I mean, there's no. I think there's more art than science to it. But just the short answer is perseverance. Right. Just knocking the doors, cold email, cold all the things. And, you know, I was alluding to the monthly roundtables that I used to host with coffee shop owners, and that's what's trained me to not listen to the. No.
- [29:31]
B
Right.
- [29:32]
C
So it's all about reaching out to folks cold. Because that's what I used to do. I did not have a brand, I did not have coffee futures one when I was, you know, after the pandemic. So I was just cold. Reaching out to coffee shop owners and then saying, hey, you know what, we're doing this roundtable. Why don't you join us? We are a small group of people, etc. Some people say yes, some people say no. But that's how you get started rolling. And then you speak with someone like Jared and they, you know what? J akshat, you just speak to Chris and then Chris is like, you know what? Speak to Casey. And you know what, let's speak to Chris. So that, that's how you start, you know, rolling. But a lot of perseverance.
- [30:08]
B
So how many mentor, like, how big is your mentor team or. I don't know if you call it a team.
- [30:15]
C
We, we call it a board. We have a mentor board. And right now there are Trevor Colette from madcap. There is Victoria Kit Armstrong, who runs her own coffee shop, Hideaway in Virginia, Winchester, Virginia. Then there is Nicole Moak, who, who again, exceptional operator. She was in the early stages of building Starbucks, so she brings that kind of experience and perspective. And then we have Dale Harris, who is, you know, again, a bar champion, champions of the champion, many times winner. And he runs his own roastery now in, in the uk. So these are the four founding mentors right now. And we are constantly looking. So please, this is,
- [31:00]
D
boy, do I have an Opportunity for you and are
- [31:02]
B
those volunteer positions for them? How does that work?
- [31:05]
C
No, no, it's not, it's not volunteer. It's a combination of. Yeah, there is some board honorary fee that they earn. Yeah, cool.
- [31:16]
B
And.
- [31:17]
D
Well, are these the original members? Have there been a, has there been a cycle through? Is it, how long is the commitment? Is it a know. Yeah, I'm here.
- [31:25]
C
Yeah, we have been through one cycle so far. So again, these were the founding mentors. So they, they were also very foundational in terms of crafting the design of Coffee Futures Fund and the program that we do. But these are the four founding mentors.
- [31:40]
D
Is there, is there an amount of like, are they on a contract's the wrong word, right? But is there a commitment? Like, I'm doing this for one year, I'm doing this for two years, you know?
- [31:48]
C
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there is a, again, when I say contract, it's like, of course it's written, but it's not like a legal, legal contract. The idea is a shared understanding and it's on paper because again, the idea is we do a annual cycle. So annual cycle includes the 10 week program where they are more invested, more spending, more time, hours, training, coaching. And then after the 10 week program, we continue to provide mentorship, monthly mentorship to all cohort owners, not just the ones we invest in, but to all 10 cohort owners over the next nine months. So essentially it's a year long program. So mentors essentially subscribe to the idea of year long mentorship with more time, some in few months and the rest is spread out.
- [32:36]
B
And then are the members, the, the coffee shop owners that you're bringing in, are they in contact with each other? Can they create their own kind of network?
- [32:45]
C
The mentors can create their own kind of network, you're saying?
- [32:48]
B
No, not the mentors. The, I don't know, students, participants, participants of the program. Are they connected to each other as well?
- [32:55]
D
Oh yeah.
- [32:56]
C
That's the beauty of it, right? Because that is where the community comes in the picture. We have our own private shared space where we, we connect all the time. We share resources, we share knowledge, we share questions, answers. Hey, you know what? I'm struggling with this, I'm struggling with that, right? From very, very small questions that, hey, my baristas are using phone during the shift and how to handle that, to having really deeper conversations about coaching your team, to a bunch of other things. So the community has a shared space where we collaborate async, but we also then create spaces where we have monthly Office hours, where it's again just internal, outside of what we do with the public, but where folks can really show up and meet each other. Not just the specific mentor that is allocated to you or assigned to you, but you can reach out to the other mentors, you can reach out to your community peers, all of that.
- [33:50]
B
So what is. So you're getting your selective about who you bring in on both sides, the coffee shop owners and the mentors. You identified this like 0 to 4 year window in which things can be really active. You're running essentially a nine month to a year program. Is it structured the same every time? Is there, are there concrete goals or benchmarks? Or is it kind of created depending on who's in the program and what each individual needs? You know, what kind of program are we running through?
- [34:24]
C
Yeah, well that's a good question. And that is something, you know, that's something that we actively talk about in all our settings. Internally when we, when we meet board meetings with the mentors or even with the mentees or participants, there is, what do you say? Again, there is some guidance around it that we provide in terms of goals, etc, but again it's curated to the specific mentee. Right. For example, as part of the program, the ten week program, which is sort of the bedrock of the whole coffee features fund thing, what we do is we share resources, we bring in experts, we go through a process. But there is this business model canvas framework which is the ultimate sort of template. Imagine in simple words, think about it as a business plan document, right? So as you're going through the 10 weeks, each week is a modules focused on a specific topic and along the way you are building like adding pieces to that block called business model canvas. So at the end of the program, the 10th week, you share a proposal that hey, these are, we call it bhag. I'm giving you a lot of terms here, so excuse me. So at the end of the ten week program, the ask is of all these mentees to come up with their big hairy audacious goal for the next 12 months. This is my goal, this is what I'm going to focus on. These are the high level three priorities and that's sets the stage for now. Everyone's clear because they put in the work, they themselves are identified and of course mentors have been coaching behind the scenes. And after the 10 week program starts the monthly mentorship cycle, right? So mentors and mentees have this shared understanding on paper that hey, these are the goals that we want to focus on and of course those goals can change. Right. And again, those goals are different. Someone wants to open the second location. Someone wants to start their own roastery. Someone wants to focus on their events and catering program. So it's very curated based on the mentee or where they are located. But ultimately there is a shared understanding and that may change after three months. You realize that. You know what? I thought about starting a second location, but I think we're too early. You want to focus on the current one. That may change. So that is what I mean by having a directional guidance, but not set in stone that, hey, once you've committed to these three goals, we're going to hold you accountable. That's not the idea. Right. But we are mentors in a way. Not. Not consultants that want to fix your problem.
- [36:57]
B
Right. The idea is clarity. Right. So it's. Yeah, there's a value in exploring. I think I needed to do this, but upon some deep thinking and probing and now I realize maybe that's not the most important thing for me.
- [37:12]
D
Well, yeah, I like that because the bhag, the big hairy audacious goal. Love that, you know, getting somebody who maybe hasn't had to attempt to kind of go all in on a concept like that, right. To put it on. You're going all in on this for the next year and you're going to attempt this and walk towards it with a mentor. It's going to allow these people to exactly see that they're gonna, they're, they're like forced to evolve. If they're committed, they're forced to see what's going to work and what was in that big audacious goal. And I actually, that's something that I've seen many times over working with other people is that they, they'll come up with something that's huge. Right. And I'll use the concept of values. They'll be, they'll throw out these values at the beginning, like we're setting these values in stone. But those values, you know, you may or may not see it as a mentor out the gate, but those values maybe aren't exactly what the true values are. Those values might be a little more aspirational and not specifically realistic to who they want to be in context of that success. So they start down scroll a goal or this road, sorry. And they're talking and they're like, okay, here's my, you know, here's my values. This, this. And then the mentor or mentee or. And I've done this myself. You're like, hey, Tell me about the actionables that make sense. Tell me what you love about that. Tell me what you do every day in your company that relates to this at all. And then they find themselves going like, oh, that's really, really hard. And through that process, right, you get the opportunity to rework and that can be all over the place. That can be how you, that can be changing from like us like a 12, the 12 ounce only option to a 16 ounce option because the people have been asking for it, you know, so I really, I think that's a great thing to do. And that, that framework of that 12 to 12 months to four years is, is a perfect place to begin to explore that with some, again, also some support to be able to be like, man, that was not going well and have a mentor be like, well what? Why wasn't it going well? And, and you might find that it just was your ability to communicate what you're trying to do to your team or the guests. You know, like there's so many, so many avenues that are, that where you can tap into potential success.
- [39:19]
C
You know, it's interesting that you say that about the why because that is in fact the very first week. The theme of the first week of the ten week program is called know your why. And the first thing that we say is you cannot use the word community. I mean, come on, it's a buzzword. So you have to be more than that. What is specific to you? What are your values? And Jared, I mean, exactly to your point, right, it's not about what are my values on paper. How do you express that through the team that you build through the coffee that you serve, through the experience that you create and through the person that you are as a leader. Right. So we break it down into a three part framework and this whole thing. But Jeremy Lehman, again, from Burt Coffee, props to him because he was the guest speaker last time and people really engaged with him that, hey, you know what, now he's talking about real examples. And why is not just that fuzzy why that lives on paper and on the website, but a real thing. So fun stuff.
- [40:19]
B
Yeah. If it's not actionable, you might as well not have it. And if it's not real, it's not going to stick around. Right. And there's a bunch of pressure to, you know, have it be these. The community is the funny example that you said it's community. Well, what does that mean? I mean, that's fine if that really is true to you, but I want to hear what community means. To you. Because community can mean 30 different things to 30 different people. So it's like take it from a buzzword to something that's specific and actionable. Actionable. And then you can have it be part of your, you know, your process. And I think, I don't know, there's something. Jared's really good at this. You know, he'll work with people in just really identifying what's most important to them. And I think there's some sort of freedom in knowing. It's like, look, man, you probably will and probably should have a set of values that's wildly different from your next door neighbor or coffee shop across the street. Because if you don't, then, well, one, I just can't believe that everybody has the exact same value.
- [41:15]
D
Right?
- [41:15]
B
Not true. We're all these unique individual humans with different backgrounds and different stories about where we came from and who we want to be. And two, it's like, it's, it's. I like just this like mesh cultural fabric where I get a different experience one place than another. If we transition into everything is just a cookie cutter copy of the next shop. Like, we've been there and it's not super fun. It's not really interesting from a guest perspective or even a copy nerds perspective.
- [41:45]
C
And, you know, that's very true. And interestingly, you said a term called clarity.
- [41:52]
B
Right.
- [41:53]
C
Because that is also important at the same time because sometimes, you know, it's, it's, I'm saying community. But there is a lot of depth in terms of what I really mean by that. And unless you call me out and say that, hey, what do you really mean by community? I'm just, you know, using that fuzzy word because that what works on Instagram and that what works on my website. So I'll keep using that and I won't dig deeper into that. And somewhere along the lines, I think that gets lost because you're so into the trenches putting out fires all the time that you lose the foundational values, why you started. Right. And that is also one of the reasons why coffee shops, like you said, become cookie cutter. And higher reason or higher likelihood to fail after the first five years because they lost their own unique voice. What they.
- [42:45]
B
So, yeah, values. Yeah. I mean, the way we think about them is they're this lens in which you see the world through your values. And it helps you to make decisions and have clarity in where you're going. The funny thing is, is they're arguably most valuable when things are going poorly because it gives you this Anchor. But they're also the easiest to throw away when things are going poorly. Because like you said, if you're in putting out fire mode, your gut instinct is to throw everything to the wind and just figure out, how can I get through this as quick, easy, and quickly? Yeah, quickly as possible. And oftentimes, if you're, if you're using your values, I mean, everything that goes along with starting a business is a complete pain in the ass. You don't do this because it's easy. Right? So taking the easy route to get out of even a really annoying, obnoxious problem is often not the right way to go. The right way to go most of the time is to take a deep breath, remember what you're doing, why you started this in the first place, actually use your values as a guiding light, and then push forward in a way that's maybe a little bit trickier, a
- [43:48]
D
little bit longer, a little bit more
- [43:49]
B
of a slog than you want it to be. But it's the right thing to do because it's true to you and it's true to your business. It's true to your brand.
- [43:55]
D
Yeah.
- [43:56]
B
And that's just what it is.
- [43:58]
D
I try, I try to, I try to encourage people by way, like when it comes to values and trying to express themselves. Right. And the example of community is one where it's like, what if you, what if you turn it to colors? And you're like, well, I'm blue. And I'm like, which kind? Like, there's thousands of shades of blue. And you're like, I'm. Are you trying to describe the blue of the ocean in California outside and that I can look at right here? Or we're trying to track about the same blue in the Pacific Ocean in Hawaii or Fiji. And what, what kind of blue are you? And I'm like, I want to encourage you to. Yeah, maybe, maybe there is a lane where you're like, I am in love with hospitality. But what is, like your small take on it that makes your version you? And I think it's really cool. One of my favorite too. To your point, Chris, that one of the things you love, right, Is like a unique cultural take, Right. And it's. I can get amazing hospitality. And my partner Rachel's been in New York, so I get to go see these different cafes, but I went to one and it's just, it's. It's specifically like three Korean friends wanting to do a Korean based cafe. But I know that because she did the research. I go in and at first, it's really nice, people serving amazing coffees. And then there's the small little tweaks on things that give it that flavor and that essence. There's some. There's some food options and some twists on up. You know, I'm serving pastries, but. But there's something that represents who I am in my culture. There's things on the wall, the music we play, the actual. Like, the esthetic of the cafe has reflections of what reminds me of home and what I do. I'm still very nice to you, right? Hospitality. I'm still serving great coffee, but the coffees I chose, like, all these things are absolutely available to everybody who is in business and even who works somewhere that you can express yourself in a little bit of a specific way. And those things actually are valuable and beautiful. And just because you don't see somebody who's already famous or really successful, doing so has nothing to do with your ability to be successful or not. People are going to relate to authenticity and connection and soul and passion more so than they're going to relate to something that's really amazing. And there's. There's another cafe that I go into that is hyper beautiful over there. Hyper amazing. It looks like it should be in magazines and it has been in magazines, and I don't feel any sort of connection to it. Sans going, this is a very pretty place that clearly serves yummy things. And I'll come in there and then
- [46:42]
B
I'll leave there and it'll be fine.
- [46:44]
D
And it is successful because it's in a place where it is established and it has a thing that's pretty and people go to what's pretty and accessible. But then I go to this other place and I'm like, I feel connected here. And I'm clearly not deep into Korean culture. I don't know a ton about it, but I feel connected to authenticity, to humans, and that is what we're doing. So, yeah, you could be blues and greens and grays and browns, and it's like there's a thousand shades of all those things. They're specifically named in the Pantone book. So don't be afraid to be a piece of who you are and find
- [47:15]
B
that, I mean, it's the only thing that's going to make you successful. Yeah, I mean, not the only thing, but if you don't have that, you're. You're. There's the zero percent chance, like, we don't need another generic business. We have a lot of generic businesses. It's fine like, we need people who are willing to be themselves. And I think, you know, one of the things that you're saying is even, I mean, even just last year. So if you're a business owner general, generally you have no shortage of ideas. You're fine to take risks, you're fine to like, reach out and do things. It's just, it just is. So. And we have that too, where it's like on any given day, there's like 20 new ideas, 20 different directions we could go all that fit within the culture. But sometimes it's. It's easy for us to get just sucked into pure idea. Oh, we can do this, we can do that, we can do this. We brought in someone third party to help myself, Jared and Charles just kind of walk through our version of that big, hairy, audacious goal for the next, you know, one year, three years, and set some bigger, longer term goals. Because just having someone who's disconnected from the business ask us the questions in a meaningful way and they really don't understand, and it really forces us to have to explain how all these ideas connect to where we say we want to go, where we think we want to go, and break it down. I mean, it has been invaluable. Honestly, it's just I don't think we would have gotten there by ourselves.
- [48:41]
D
Yeah.
- [48:42]
B
And we're not new here, you know.
- [48:44]
C
Yeah.
- [48:44]
D
So what you're doing is, is legit in that regard. Right. People do need this. And I'm sure you're seeing success has, has, has it continued to grow? I mean, you're still doing it two years in, but, you know, like, what's the progression been?
- [48:58]
C
It's been, it's been great, first of all. It's been great. And, you know, I go back to that, I go back to this question every day in terms of, you know, because it keeps me out, I cannot sleep. You know, it's always like you said, Chris, right. You have so many ideas, you want to do all the things. And again, Jared, I've been talking to you so much, and one thing you said, we talked about was how do you, like when you're small, you're just the leader yourself, right. The owner. And you are present everywhere. So all your customers know you and it's you who's doing all the service, pulling shots, et cetera. But when you grow your team, you have to translate that culture and that value through your team because you cannot be everywhere. So I am trying to keep that thing in my mind in terms of, okay, what is it really that we are doing right, what we can do more, what we can do better. And then what I do is I bring myself back to this primary thesis, which is what is my priority. Our priority is, as we have established, is to not scale and scale in terms of, you know, what we are doing one cohort, let's do two cohort next year. If we're doing the US let's open globally. So we are doing 10 people, why not 20 people in one cohort? So all of that. So again coming back to the basics, coming back to the design, which is keep it small, keep it human and keep it personalized. That's what we want to do. Have real conversations with real people. And I bring this in back to your question, which is where is the trajectory? How do we know it's working right? Because it's these hard conversations. When I listen to my cohort owners now we do this monthly roundtables now. And you know, okay, let me give you a specific example. We started doing the monthly roundtables from January. We have already done a couple now. And the original idea was before Coffee Futures Fund. When I used to do it, it was generic. I used to call coffee shop owners about a 10 and then we used to talk about a topic. It was a generic thing. There was no specific theme or topic before we started talking. And then we thought should we do the same? Should we keep it generic, just call people and then have the conversation? Maybe not a great use of time. So let's have a topic around. Let's have topical roundtables. And then okay, we want to have topical roundtables, let's bring in experts, we want to talk about marketing list. Let's bring in Seth Godin, you know, and then of course the coffee shop owners who can come and listen. But we are staying true to this value of many, too many conversations, right? Knowledge sharing. And the beauty is we realized why call experts when we have experts in house in our own network. Over the last eight to 12 months we have known these cohort owners who are part of the first cohort. They have been so successful in doing what they have been doing. So for example in January we we brought in Emily from Washed Up Coffee who's having a success at her merchandise program February roundtable. We brought in Ivan who runs Record those at Cafe at in Atlanta and Jared in Nashville running Subliminal Coffee. And they have seen a beautiful successful journey over the last three years from starting a pop up shop to opening their first brick and mortar and doing successfully. Now we Invested in Jared. So these are real examples of people who have, you know, been with us, who we have been fortunate truly to see their trajectory. They are growth. And now they're not just the mentees, right. They're not just here to gain knowledge, but they are so aware and so ready that they can share knowledge with the world because they have success. So I think that's a real example of what we have seen over the last just eight months running the first cohort and you know, sky is the limit. No, we're just going to the right, up and to the right.
- [52:56]
B
How does the funding portion of it work?
- [53:00]
C
The funding portion is very much tied to the ten week program. Right. Because as you, as you heard me talking about the application process, which is a three step process, we are, we are talking to these people, we are learning about their priorities, how they are as people. And then during the 10 week program we see them really invested. What are they focusing on, how invested they are, how coachable they are. Right. Because mentorship is a big piece. And once we see that clarity, that vision in their eyes. And when I say vision, I don't mean, you know, a coffee shop business can be potentially be a billion dollar business, but do coffee shop owners want to be billion dollar businesses in that sense? Exactly, exactly. Right. So we don't want to do that and we realize that. And therefore we have crafted the investment framework in the same sense where we given small capital, meaningful capital that will really they are bhag big hairy audacious goal that they have come up with over the 10 week program. They see the clarity, they see they can do this. They have a specific ask that hey, we need the investment for this specific purpose and we are ready to put in the effort to do this. When we see that like we want to back you and how do we want to back you, of course, with the investment. But being very diligent about the kind of investment because sometimes, and this is, you know, a very unfortunate, especially in the coffee industry where typical investors, venture capital firms think about coffee business like a tech business, right? You put in the money, you pump in and then you decide to scale. That is not how we do it. Coffee shop is a real people business. And one thing is, it's also the, the matter, the science of when you put in equity, you want some value out of it, right. As an investor, if you want to think about it, I have put some money, I want to return some money. So we are very specific in terms of, okay, we are not looking for 100x returns. We just want to make sure that there are reasonable returns which the owner that we have invested in is dialed in. And second thing is we don't take equity because we want to keep the ownership with the owner 100%. We do not want any involvement in terms of, I mean, when I say involvement, we don't want to claim that we are better experts than you are at your coffee shop running your values and vision. And we want to be again, partners with you and partners in the full respect of money plus capital plus money plus community, plus resources. And therefore we do it like you said, Chris, in, in form of a debt like instrument where it's more beneficial for them. We do not take any boat seat. You ultimately are the final decision maker for your business. We don't take any equity. So if you grow, if you, you know, set up multiple shops or if you, further, if you want to, if you do sell to another company, it's all you, it's all your business, all your equity. We just want to be the right partners in the right sense. And therefore that structure around debt, which is, which is, by the way, just to clarify that further, it's a revenue share. It's not like a bank where you have to pay the money regardless what the season is, regardless what the time of the year is, because you know, the first few years, again, because they are in the initial phases, the first couple of years will be tough, you fix things out. So we don't want to extract money out of their business where the money will be better used in the business, in building the team. Right. So therefore revenue share, because I think the values are aligned, then revenue grows. It helps both the owner and the coffee futures fund. And we can then say confidently that yes, we supported you, we could add a little value in your larger vision and therefore we can expect some return out of it.
- [57:03]
D
Yeah.
- [57:03]
B
What kind of numbers are we talking about here?
- [57:07]
C
5% of the revenue share.
- [57:09]
B
For payback.
- [57:10]
C
For payback. Yeah. And again, like I said, right. So if the season is low or if you're in the early years, of course the revenue will be less compared relative to the future years. And therefore the 5% is a smaller pool in the initial years. So we set them up the right way.
- [57:26]
B
And then the initial lump sum, if I remember, was in that 40 to 50k range, is that. Am I right about that?
- [57:32]
C
That's right. Nice. Yeah. More investors, I'll get more money and I'll pay more. I'll invest more money in the coffee shops.
- [57:40]
B
So do you have A group of investors that's providing the funds for these things or where does that money come from if you feel comfortable.
- [57:50]
C
No, I'm happy to share at, at some level I'm careful about the altitude and don't want to name names. Again, this is, you know, you, you will realize that I make up a lot of terms as I'm building this Coffee feeders fund. I'm making a lot of terms. So one of the terms is coffee capital. Right. So what I mean by that is when I started Coffee Viewers Fund, of course I put in my own money. But one thing that I was clear was, and I have thankfully a decent network of investor friends thanks to my non coffee background. But when I was, I did not reach out to them because I wanted to be clear that I do not want an investor partner who doesn't understand the coffee business and really the business economics of coffee shops. And if they're looking for a tech type return, they are not fit for an investor profile for Coffee Beers Fund. Therefore I say Coffee Capital. So investors who have the capital who are keen to invest but who understand the coffee business, who are related or worked in the coffee space. So all our investors, it's a small set but all of them have been closer to the coffee space.
- [59:00]
B
That's cool.
- [59:01]
D
So you've added some texture to Coffee Futures Fund. And I mean that's, that's kind of how we met. Although I, it would be cool to kind of go back through how you came into contact with me because I, I don't, I don't remember hyper clearly. I feel like there was a, a reference from somebody that we should connect, talk about something and it turned into what is now your first issue of Letters to Coffee Shop Owners essay slash zine situation that just came out. And so I mean that's part of, that's part of why we're here, right? Is to share, to share that. And that's. It was really fun and I gotta say it was a trip to be interviewed by you, somebody who didn't know me. And I honestly think you did a really great job just writing in general. It was a really well written article and it was put together a great essay. But you know what, where did that idea come from? I know this is multiple questions, but where did that idea come from? How, how did we get connected again? I, I mean that was my short, my short version of trying to remember exactly how it went but with all the things going on, I remember being like great. And then all of a sudden we're Talking. We're having these good conversations. Obviously we have some shared energy and passion. Yeah, Walk. Walk me through that process and tell people about why Letters to young Coffee shop owners came to be and that whole, you know, new layer to Coffee Futures Fund or. Or even if it is specifically for that or something else.
- [60:28]
C
Yeah, no, just like you guys, I think there are.
- [60:31]
D
There is.
- [60:32]
C
I've realized there is abundance of ideas and it's just coming from all angles. So it's not. I can't pinpoint where the specific idea for Letters to Coffee Fuels Fund came in, but essentially I think it's the thesis was this. Right. How do you want to share knowledge with people and spotlight owners? Especially because I think, again, back to my point that I made at the top of the call, that the industry has done justice in terms of focusing on the product, like over the last 30 years coffee now, today that we get. And what consumers know is your supremely high level compared to what you get or could get back in the day, 30 years back, for example. But the industry has not done justice in terms of education, business education, to be specific.
- [61:17]
B
Right.
- [61:17]
C
Because. And therefore there are so many great independent coffee shops, but they fail. They don't thrive beyond five years. And that's what you want to change. And so everything comes from that primary thesis of building for the bottom of the pyramid. So resources, the letters to young coffee owners, the podcast, the roundtable, the cohort, the mentorship, all of it are just branches and there could be hundred different things, but all come from this primary piece that, hey, we want to share knowledge. And we, again, like I said, I truly believe for myself and even for coffee, if you respond that we are students of coffee, so we don't want to be. We know what we are good at and we know what we are not experts at. Right. So we don't want to claim. So when I talk about how to run a coffee shop business, I can provide my perspective, but it is nowhere close to what Chris or Jared would say. Right. Because you have lived it. You are the right profiles of operators who have, you know, live that life and therefore let us to coffee. Young coffee owners is that effort to share your voice, in your words, with the emerging coffee shop owner so that they don't make the same mistakes, you know, they hopefully make. Reduce the cost of making mistakes. Hopefully. Yeah.
- [62:38]
D
Gotcha. Yeah. I mean, how did we start talking? I feel like we talked because you were looking or kind of putting together and I was. You had already put together a team, but we connected to potentially Talk about some sort of support. And then it changed into this. Right?
- [62:57]
C
Yeah. So. So I'll tell you this. So I think it's been a year since. Since we first chatted.
- [63:03]
D
A long time.
- [63:04]
C
Yeah. And if I remember correctly, I think it was again, the. The woman, the legend, Leila Gambari. I think she mentioned your name once. And again, I've been following you and Kat and Cloud on just social media. And again, you. By the way, props to you guys for doing an awesome podcast because you make it really genuine and even practical to that sense. I think you balance that line of entrepreneurial thought and action very beautifully. Just keep it simple. But it's so meaningful and there's a lot of depth to it.
- [63:39]
D
Thank you.
- [63:40]
B
Thank you.
- [63:41]
C
So I think Leila connected us or she mentioned your name and like, you know what? Yeah, I think this is an indication. I should reach out to Jaron and then I reached out to you, and then at that point, because we are always looking for mentors, like I mentioned, we are always looking for guest speakers, even for our program, because again, for all the 10 weeks, we had experts coming in. Jeremy, I mentioned Selena from Blue Bottle Coffee. They're all coming in, sharing their expertise on different topics. So I think it was in that, during those conversations and when I met you for the first time, I think it was a diff. I mean, again, it was the first call, but it didn't feel like a first call. Your energy and your authenticity was so clear that it really reached me. And as I was thinking. And again, it's been the idea for Letters to Coffee, Young Coffee Owners has been on my mind for. From the last cohort. It's been almost a year now. So when I talked to you, I thought, you know what? Jared could be a great person to kick us off because you have a story to tell and you have the energy, and there is so much that people can learn from you. So why don't I introduce that idea in your mind and then see where we land? And here we are. Let us talk.
- [65:02]
D
We did. Yeah, we did kind of end up bouncing ideas off each other a lot during those conversations.
- [65:05]
C
Yeah.
- [65:06]
D
Cool. Yeah, I was wondering about that, and I'm. I'm really honored to be a part of it. And I hope. I hope that it becomes something that is helpful for people. Obviously mine. But in general, like, I do agree. So the more branches, the more opportunity for people to dive into stories that are connected from people who have actually experienced what it is to try, really, at the end of the day, I mean, honestly, you could get. You can get a great story in your same framework for somebody who failed in business and maybe had to do something else. But you could still learn, you know, people who tried and went for it, successful or not, and are willing to share their stories. There's a lot of value in that. And I. I hope it continues to go. And it was a trip to read specifically about myself and, like, in, like, an isolated circumstance like that. It was crazy.
- [65:51]
C
So I'm curious what. What Chris had to think or had to. What was your reaction when you read that?
- [65:57]
B
I didn't read it yet. I haven't done it. I know. I know. I left him hanging.
- [66:02]
D
He's a slow uptake.
- [66:03]
B
I'm a slow. I'm a slow uptake. That's. Yeah, that's me. I'm. I'm. I would not get into your mentorship program because I would be the guy who took three days to respond to the. The original questionnaire. That would be me. I would be kicked out. They'd be like, this guy's not for real. No, But.
- [66:21]
D
But that.
- [66:22]
C
Again, again, that. That's not, though, drives.
- [66:23]
B
It drives my wife nuts. And I do it with everything. It's. It's not just information. It's like she will get me something, like a gift, and she'll try to give it to me. And I was like, I'm. I don't. I'm not ready to open it right now. And then I'll sit on the counter. Come on. Seriously? Yeah. Like, yeah. She got me a hat the other day, and I was like, I don't know. Like I even knew what it was. I was like, I'm not ready to open it. So it sat on the counter for three days, and then I opened it the other day, and she's the exact opposite. She wants to do things immediately. She can't keep secrets. If she has a surprise for someone and it's a month from now, she'll just tell you today. So she can't stop. So we're like polar opposites in that way, and it's hilarious. Yeah, I drive her nuts. It's great.
- [67:05]
C
But Chris is a diligent man,
- [67:09]
D
sticks to. Sticks to his guns. I mean, yeah, I, I. Casey, though, right. Who is not here today, but he helps, you know, produce this podcast and set the whole thing up. He read it, and he had a lot of nice things to say about it in general. And if he was sitting here, he's just out of office with his family today, than he was always Going to be. So he got set up. Thanks Casey for doing so. He, he thought it was really well written and Charles as well. So well done. I mean it's getting, it's getting good feedback from people that I know and it's partially your writing and I guess it's partially resonant ideas too. And so it's all you.
- [67:43]
C
It's all you. It's your story.
- [67:47]
D
I would never written about myself like that. I don't do that well so that it wouldn't, it wouldn't come out even if it is completely honest and true. It wouldn't have come out that way without your help. So I appreciate it.
- [68:00]
B
Of course.
- [68:00]
C
Thank you for doing it.
- [68:02]
D
You know, do you have more, do you have more coming on? And when it comes to.
- [68:06]
C
We have a lot more coming and not. But a lot of us. Chris, go ahead.
- [68:11]
B
Oh, I was gonna say monthly zine drop. Is that what we're looking for?
- [68:15]
C
Not, not monthly for sure. We will do some drops but in our own fashion. Again we, we, we don't cater to the algorithm so we will do our thing our way. Just you know, taking a leaf from your book. We will do it diligently, slowly, steadily high quality.
- [68:32]
B
Fair. That's fair. It'd be kind of fun to do. I mean obviously this isn't your thing, but it'd be kind of cool to do. Did you do printed versions or like physical versions? It'd be kind of cool to do physical version with a coffee.
- [68:44]
D
You know what I mean? For sure. Like a coffee drop with it.
- [68:47]
B
Like a coffee drop with this. Like you get the coffee and the. We have a whole roastery physical version of the zine and I don't know, just for special occasions.
- [68:56]
C
Let's do it. Why not? Do it? Yeah.
- [69:02]
D
Got a couple sweet beans over here to the left.
- [69:03]
B
Are you doing anything for World of Coffee or sca? You know, how do you see yourself interacting with the greater coffee world?
- [69:11]
C
Yeah, mostly again immersing myself and our ourselves in the experience of World of Coffee. So we will be there. We will. We are hosting a roundtable. True to our style, we are hosting a roundtable on the 10th of April which is Friday evening, the first day of World of Coffee and excited about that. So we will bring on not 10 this time because given the occasion and given, you know, the opportunity to meet with so many people, we will bring about close to 25 people for a nice hour long conversation and a lot of, you know, things and sharing. And then a board is also meeting for the first Time. So we are having a full day workshop with a board to just, you know, set us up and get ready for the next cohort. There's a lot of planning going on. We had a board meeting just last night and then so excited about the round table, immersing in during the three days with the larger community and just, you know, enjoy enjoying, enjoying coffee, enjoying conversations and then the mentor board workshop to wrap it up. Yeah.
- [70:17]
D
Is there anywhere people could maybe if they want to, you know, high five, you meet, you find. Was there a place they could specifically find you? Or is it like, hey, I'll be walking the floor, you know, saying hi to people, kissing babies. The whole nine.
- [70:29]
C
The whole.
- [70:30]
B
Yeah.
- [70:30]
C
The whole mind is the better answer. Yeah. And the way to reach out to me is of course social media, Instagram website, subscribe there or reach out to me personally. My email is Akshat Akshat coffeefutures Fund. Hopefully simple. So yeah. Yeah. And I am available to meet as the whole idea. We're there.
- [70:54]
D
Yeah. I hope to see you in person at World of Coffee sometime. Which, I mean, now we're connected. So I guess that should be fairly easy to do. Otherwise, I just. Yeah. I appreciate your heart behind what you're doing and I'm happy to, you know, share more of your story and I hope, I hope it does bring a lot of connection and then bring all those good problems, which is like, how do we help more people? And I think that's, you know, what we, we need more in our industry anyway is people who are willing to be creative and think about how that could work and how it could be supportive. And I, I do think it's really important to get to get more perspective about what it is to be a business owner out there into the general population. Right. We all, we all came from somewhere. When I was young, I thought being a business owner looked and felt a certain way, partially because the way that those, that generation of business owners operated and what they did and how they, how they presented themselves.
- [71:52]
C
Yeah.
- [71:52]
D
And I think the more people that can understand that combination of yes, this is highly rewarding. It's also exactly it. It's very lonely most of the time. It's more challenging than it is fun. Pretty much across the board that that could be really helpful for groups of people coming to work with whoever these owners are and pursuing like a better future for everybody. One but like understanding for themselves like this is, this is what this industry is and is capable of. And where, where. What is the difference between that top 30% and everything else and how huge of a jump it is to be in the top 30 percentile and what those companies are versus companies like ours, we are, and, and other companies in, in the under the 70 percentile. They are not set up in such a way. Even if they look and have become very like, maybe they have great operators, maybe they have great systems, maybe they have put themselves in a place where it's like, dang, these guys must be killing it. It's not always what you think as somebody who is younger in the workforce and do you even just try to get that calibration working together and share those stories alongside of obviously owners feeling connected and not isolated is like, it's a big call. Yeah, it's a calling and it's really important. And so I'm just grateful for more people like yourself who are beginning to help bridge that gap in their own way. So I appreciate your work.
- [73:22]
C
Two years in, two years in. Yeah. And then right back at you. I mean you're doing all the things too. And you know, one thing that comes as you were speaking, I was thinking about this because I think this is a very, and I'd love to hear your perspective, both your perspective on this. I believe this is a very, very interesting time in our world, the world that we live in, because
- [73:46]
D
there is
- [73:46]
C
a duality happening where everything is all technology AI right. And everything is digital and online. But at the same time there is an increased amount of craving for human connection, belongingness. And coffee shops sits right at the center of serving that need that hey now, I've spent a lot of time online all my day, every day, and now I want to meet people. Where do I go? I go to these places and therefore not the cookie cutter places, people, places that make you feel comfortable, that pull you in and that where you can bring people, your, your people together. So it's a very interesting time to open a coffee shop and it'll be fun.
- [74:28]
D
I mean, and Chris is the guy. Like I think you of all people are some of amongst the most passionate about almost that exact idea. Like places for people to come to be together, to experience something really well done and, or unique.
- [74:41]
B
I love that. I think, I mean that's the reasons all the things that you described are why I fell in love with going to the coffee shop in the first place. You know, I went to coffee shops well before I ever thought working in one because it was a place that even before the heavy, heavy social media AI age, it was just a place where you knew people were going to be there, you know what I mean? Like we had regulars at the shop that I used to go to to where it's like, oh, it's 5:30, Cody's going to be there. He's going to be sitting at the bar drinking his Americano and we're going to have a chat and pull up. I, a lot of that reminds me of, I don't know, I'm a really tactile person. So on one end I love storytelling and there's certain cool things about digital media that I wish I would have had in high school. It would have been kind of fun and interesting. But things really connect for me when they're in real life. And a coffee shop is a great day to day example of a place where it's, it's, there's something special about it not being a special occasion. It's something that you can interact with daily. It's not like a super fancy dinner where you're like, oh my gosh, I spent a thousand bucks on a three Michelin star meal. Which is awesome. Don't get me wrong. That's cool. But to be able, like I can engage with this on the day to day, connect with the people that I care about, have some interesting conversations and kick the ball around, I'm just like, you can't lose if you do it well.
- [76:06]
D
Feels so good.
- [76:07]
B
You know what I mean? And I think that is, that is part of the big problem. It's like figuring out how to do it well, figuring out if you want to do it or not is a huge thing. I think you're, your screening process really resonates with me and the story that you told in the beginning of this podcast. Because what everybody tells you is the same thing I tell everybody. They're like, I want to open a coffee shop. I'm like, you probably don't.
- [76:29]
C
Yeah.
- [76:30]
B
If you really love coffee, there's a million ways to interact with it in a, a lower stakes, almost more fruitful way. Especially now, like if you're an espresso nerd. Oh my gosh, like how many people have I met who have a Linea Mini on the counter? They have, you know, everybody's making small single dose grinders. You can go down the rabbit hole as much as you want. You know, you can spend, you know, anywhere from 2 grand to 15 grand at your house and be making awesome espresso, try out coffee from different roasters and live the full coffee geek lifestyle and never have to do any of the other things that go along with running A coffee shop. And you know, we experienced that during the pandemic too, when people were up in the air about what they did for work. And we had several people enter into Cat and cloud who had thought about being a barista, thought about living the coffee shop lifestyle. And they were programmers or techies or had some other jobs. Yeah, doctors. Part of that conversation is, you know you're going to have to clean the toilets.
- [77:35]
A
Right.
- [77:36]
B
Like, you know you're going to have to scrub the floor drains. You know, you have to take inventory and restock cups and lids and napkins and you're sweeping and you're mopping and I love that you love coffee. But making coffee is 20% of running a coffee shop. And it's not going to be the thing that makes or break you. Like the product is not the thing that's sitting in the grinder. It's important, for sure. I love it for sure. And I want to drink delicious coffee. But the product is really how you're making people feel when they come through the door. How does your staff interact with the space? How do they feel when they come to work? What are all of the intangibles that Jared was describing earlier that lead you to be like, yeah, I like it here. I want to come back, I want to tell my friends about it. Why? I don't even know if I can articulate, but it makes it feel good.
- [78:26]
D
Yeah.
- [78:26]
B
That's the hard part about opening a coffee shop. And I feel like if people are committed to figuring that out, you can build like, like you said, you know, you're not going to make a billion dollars. That's not why you go into this industry. But you can create a place that has a long like, that has longevity and that people will genuinely enjoy coming to. But you got to start from the right place.
- [78:46]
C
Yeah. And that's the beauty of life, right? Have fun. Do something that you know you really enjoy and connect with people. Money will come. Money is. Money is a non consequential in a way. And what. Why do you want a billion dollars? What do you do with a billion dollars?
- [78:59]
D
What do you do with it? I don't know, man trace, commas club. But maybe I would take it if it came to me. But I don't know if I want to do what it takes. For most people. Usually I have an honest like getting there. Honest is the wrong word. But it's not usually the cleanest and most connective process to get to a billion dollars. Yeah.
- [79:20]
B
Even if you're downgrading that downgrade it to, you know, whatever sum of millions. It's just like millions free. Every payout comes with a pay in and some people are wired or excited about different pay ins. For me, I could never do, I could never, I don't know, I don't know if I could do anything in the tech space because I couldn't be sitting in a room by myself all day coding or whatever. I don't even know what that's like. But it's like I need to feel like I'm out in the world interacting with things. I need to be making things that resonate with me. And just so happens it's like, look, I've made an awesome life for myself. Am I where I want to be? No, I'm not. I, I, I want, there are things that I want to be able to do that I can't do because of finances. Am I super lucky? Yes. You know, do I. Would the 22 year old version of me be tripping out about where I am now? Absolutely. Be fully mind blown about it. So, and you know, this isn't a place to go if you're strictly looking to maximize revenue. You know, our other business partner, Charles, he worked on Wall street doing investment analytics, portfolio management and he was doing well, but ultimately he's like, that's not what the most important thing is to me.
- [80:33]
D
He did not like life.
- [80:34]
B
I want to create something that matters, that speaks to my soul. And he switched to the coffee industry knowing full well, like, yeah, I'm probably going to make less money.
- [80:41]
A
That's fine.
- [80:43]
B
At the end of the day, I can deal with that. As long as I can provide for myself in a reasonable way and I'm doing things that I love.
- [80:50]
C
That's what matters. Yeah.
- [80:51]
B
Makes it matter. Is there anything that we didn't cover about the fund or the program that you want to kick out there for the people?
- [80:59]
C
No, no. I think you were thorough. Thank you so much for all the questions and all. You know, for your perspective on how we do things, I would just say that applications are starting for cohort two on April 1st. So now is the time. If, if folks are thinking about coffee fetus 1 and joining the court, now is exactly the time. We will keep the window short April 1st to May 4th and so go to the website, click on the button and put in your applications and we will reach out for with more details. But now is the time.
- [81:34]
D
Do it nice. We'll get out there and do it everybody. And thank you so much, Akshat for the time and hanging out.
- [81:40]
A
Yeah man.
- [81:40]
B
Thanks. Good to meet you.
- [81:42]
D
Yeah. Talk to you real soon.
- [81:44]
C
Talk to you real soon.
- [81:45]
B
Did we do it? We did it. I think we did it.
- [81:47]
C
The noise.
- [81:50]
A
All right everyone, that's the podcast for this week. If you've got something culture, coffee or business related that's tickling your brain and you want us to shine a light on it, you can send us an email to podcastat and cloud.com. there's also a podcast page on our website. If you scroll to the bottom of that page, you can record a voice message for us with your questions or comments. But be warned, we will play your beautiful, beautiful voice on our podcast unless
- [82:16]
B
you tell us not to.
- [82:18]
A
Our website is also a hub for all things cat and cloud, including coffee. If you're looking for somewhere to start, you don't know where that is the answer. Our flagship blend is a great go to Coffee. We use it for all of our milk based espresso beverages in the cafes and we always have it on as a brewed coffee option. It's super easy to pull for all you home espresso wizards. We've also got a rotating menu of single origin offerings if you want to get into something a little bit more wild and explore some of the different characteristics that these special coffees have to offer. So check it out. Katandcloud.com appreciate you spending your time with us. We hope you have an amazing week. Peace.