Catalyst with Shayle Kann – AMA: Geoengineering, Nuclear, Power Prices, and More

Podcast: Catalyst with Shayle Kann
Date: September 4, 2025
Co-Host: Lara Pierpoint (Managing Director, Trellis Climate Program at Prime; Host, Green Blueprint)

Episode Overview

In this wide-ranging "Ask Me Anything" (AMA) episode, Shayle Kann teams up with climate tech expert Lara Pierpoint to answer listener questions on some of the thorniest and most pressing topics in climate and energy. With questions submitted by listeners, they tackle geoengineering, nuclear's future, rising electricity costs, the state of climate tech investment, the scale-up conundrum, plastics, V2G (Vehicle-to-Grid), and more. Throughout, they provide candid insights into the technical, societal, and economic barriers facing decarbonization—and where there’s genuine excitement and momentum.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Geoengineering and Solar Radiation Management (SRM)

Q: Will SRM companies remain black sheep until the politics of stratospheric aerosols improve?
Discussion Highlights:

• SRM is a venture conundrum:

  • Shayle notes that SRM can, in theory, deliver significant cooling for very little money, making it “orders and orders of magnitude” cheaper per degree than carbon removal—"A couple billion dollars might get you like half a degree Celsius of global cooling. Like truly ludicrous numbers." (05:19)
  • Yet, this very cheapness undercuts market potential: “It's actually hard to get to a big market size for it ultimately because it is so cheap.” (04:45)

• Policy and public perception are major hurdles:

  • Lara emphasizes high community pushback: “The level of community interaction and storytelling…is pretty astronomical in this category.” (07:05)
  • Case in point: Alameda’s city council quickly shut down an SRM startup’s test with sea salt aerosols due to public concern.

• SRM is likely government-driven, not a startup play:

  • “I'm not sure it's a venture company though. Like, governments should do that. A billionaire should do that themselves.” (05:05)

• Right vs. wrong ways to approach SRM:

  • Shayle cites Make Sunsets’ “brazen” actions as counterproductive: “That is the wrong way, in my opinion, to go about building an SRM startup.” (08:11)
  • “There weren’t as many ‘this is going to ruin the environment’ kind of concerns about DAC…but eventually the market came around.” (07:31)

2. Which Clean Energy Sectors Will Lower Power Prices the Most?

Q: Where should funds go for maximum near-term impact on electricity prices?

• Energy efficiency and demand flexibility take center stage:

  • Shayle: “The biggest risk to decarbonization actually in the near term” is rising electricity prices (11:14), due to “wildfire costs”, aging grid infrastructure, and new tariffs, among other factors.
  • “I'm sort of freshly interested in a whole universe of things that just deliver lower energy consumption overall, whether at the consumer level or, obviously, lots of folks are thinking about this at the data center level.” (11:41)

• DERs (Distributed Energy Resources) and infrastructure cost-savers:

  • Lara: “Anything that decreases infrastructure build out costs…would be a massive unlock.” (12:35)
  • Both expect DERs—including demand response, behind-the-meter storage, and flexible load—will spur new types of innovation and companies.

• The threat to electrification:

  • “The biggest risk to EV adoption right now above all else is rising electricity prices.” (13:03)

3. Electrification vs. Rising Power Prices

Q: How can electrification continue as prices go up?

• The economic calculus is getting worse:

  • Shayle: “Historically, electrification is a game where you pay more capex upfront and then save money over time because what you're using is more efficient. And that value proposition erodes when electricity prices…are especially high.” (14:37)
  • Lara’s experience: “I definitely converted to all electric HVAC in my house and now I pay almost twice as much as what we paid before on a gas-based system.” (15:40)

• Stoves are a distraction:

  • “If what you care about is electrifying stuff, you should really push people toward electric vehicles and electric HVAC. Stove don't really matter at the end of the day.” (17:18)

4. Biggest Misses (Too Optimistic or Pessimistic) of the Past Five Years

Q: Where were you wrong?

• Too optimistic:

  • Shayle underestimated political risk: “I think I undercounted the likelihood that the Inflation Reduction Act was going to get shredded… And that's exactly what happened.” (19:59)

• Too pessimistic:

  • Nuclear’s comeback: “If you'd asked me five years ago the likelihood that there was going to be a real nuclear renaissance in the US I would have said, you know, I hope so. But it seems unlikely to me… But all these chips are falling.” (21:45)
  • “I'm much more optimistic now about the future of nuclear power in the US than I was five years ago.” (23:23)

• Lara concurs, but is cautious on SMRs:

  • “I think by far the biggest question is: can they take advantage of what's happening with the AI/data center electricity boom that's occurring right now…?” (23:50)

5. Are We in a Climate Tech Boom or Bust? What Happens Next?

Q: Where are we in the cycle?

• Current state is a “bust”—but with a twist:

  • “We're clearly in the bust part of the cycle. The fall from glory has been a lot steeper and faster because it was really driven by a political change... Unlike last time, the energy sector is now central and dynamic.” (26:01)
  • Sectors tethered to macro demand (AI/data centers) retain tailwinds; “Other parts of the climate tech sector don't get that tailwind.”

• The “valley of death” remains:

  • “Being X but clean—particularly if it's X but clean and more expensive—is just not enough…you don't have the durability of customer demand you need.” (30:40)

6. V2G (Vehicle-to-Grid): Why Isn’t It Scaling?

Q: If V2G is so cost-effective, why isn’t it everywhere?

• V2H (home backup) is more obvious—and should be scaling:

  • “There is a large existing market for home backup... The battery in your vehicle is a way, way, way cheaper way to do that... But it is happening slowly.” (32:30)

• V2G’s customer value proposition is less clear:

  • "What is the revenue that you can attain by backfeeding into the grid with your vehicle battery? And is that worth it, given that you're going to be expending the battery in your vehicle?" (33:23)

• Fleet and school buses are the killer app:

  • Lara: “From a fleet perspective...I wish tomorrow that all of the school buses in the country were electric and supplying all kinds of grid backup, particularly in the summer when it's needed.” (34:38)

• Psychology and the fear of losing range:

  • “I think there's something about the idea of the broader grid taking out juice from your battery that provokes range anxiety even when it doesn't make sense.” (35:23)

7. Decarbonizing Plastics

Q: How can we decarbonize the plastic sector?

• Not all plastic use is a climate problem:

  • “Burning petroleum is an emissions problem. Using petroleum is not necessarily so... Plastics contain petroleum... But except to the extent that those things are burned, they do not create emissions that cause climate change.” (36:27)
  • Climate impact mostly comes from the energy-intensive manufacturing of precursors, not from plastic use itself.

• Alternative plastics aren’t inherently more climate-friendly:

  • “Bioplastics and biodegradable and blah blah blah...they're not necessarily better from a global climate perspective.” (39:16)

• Environmental vs. climate conflation:

  • “There are many reasons from an environmental perspective that you might want to care about plastic... But those are not inherently climate problems, to my understanding.” (36:52)

8. Optimism in Climate and Energy

Q: What makes you optimistic right now?

• Shayle on the energy sector’s dynamism:

  • “It is so important, it's so central, so many eyes are on it, so much money and innovation is flowing through it… an opportunity. It must be grasped.” (39:50)

• Lara on the people and resilience:

  • “We've got some really incredible people working on climate… Everyone, including oil company CEOs, know a revolution is coming. This is a rough moment, but... we'll get there.” (41:16)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On SRM’s economics:

  • “From a venture perspective you’re like, this is just way better pending obviously a whole host of questions that fall from that. On the other hand, it’s actually hard to get to a big market size for it because it is so cheap.” – Shayle Kann (04:45)

• On nuclear’s moment:

  • “This is our last shot. We keep calling Nuclear Renaissance and we’ve got to actually mean it and do it this time.” – Lara Pierpoint (25:13)
  • “This is…a really good shot. Like all of the puzzle pieces are in place here. There's really no excuse, I don't think, if it doesn't work this time.” – Shayle Kann (25:41)

• On electrification risk:

  • “The biggest risk to EV adoption right now above all else is rising electricity prices.” – Shayle Kann (13:03)

• On the “valley of death” for climate tech:

  • “Being X but clean…particularly if it's X but clean and more expensive is just not enough.” – Shayle Kann (30:40)
  • “In many subcategories of the market, being clean is insufficient.” (30:53)

• On plastics:

  • “Burning petroleum is an emissions problem. Using petroleum is not necessarily so.” – Shayle Kann (36:27)
  • “Bioplastics…they’re not necessarily better from a global climate perspective.” (39:16)

• On what gives hope:

  • “The world has turned to the energy sector and wants to solve a bunch of these problems as quickly as possible, will throw whatever resources are required at it.” – Shayle Kann (39:50)

Timestamps – Key Segments

• 03:26 – Solar Radiation Management: Venture prospects and societal hurdles
• 09:03 – Which clean energy sectors can lower power prices now?
• 13:03 – How rising electricity prices impact electrification
• 19:59 – “What have you been wrong about?”: The IRA, nuclear, and reversals
• 25:13 – Nuclear’s “last shot” and the current inflection point
• 26:01 – Where are we in the cleantech investment boom/bust cycle?
• 32:30 – V2G/V2H: Market readiness and obstacles
• 36:27 – Plastics and climate: Problem scope and myths
• 39:50 – Optimism for the future: Opportunity in crisis

Conclusion

This AMA episode of Catalyst is unusually candid, clear-eyed, and sometimes philosophical about the fast-moving challenges in decarbonization, the uneasy politics of energy, and the next big leaps for climate tech. Shayle and Lara mix granular detail with high-level trends, providing listeners with both optimism and healthy skepticism for the rocky road ahead.