Podcast Summary: Catalyst with Shayle Kann
Episode: Calibrating Hype with Akshat Rathi
Date: October 16, 2025
Host: Shayle Kann (Catalyst, Energy Impact Partners)
Guest: Akshat Rathi (Senior Reporter, Bloomberg News; Host, Zero Podcast)
Episode Overview
This episode features a lively "game show"-style discussion between Shayle Kann and Akshat Rathi, focused on determining whether various climate and energy topics are overhyped, underhyped, or appropriately hyped. Bringing together Shayle's US-centric, tech-investor perspective with Akshat's global, policy-driven view, they cover critical bottlenecks, venture capital's role, climate policy influence, and emerging technologies – all with focus on responding to surging electricity demand (especially from AI/data centers) and the challenges of decarbonization.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Nomenclature and Political Backlash in Clean Energy
- [03:20] Discussion opens with Akshat’s observations on cultural and political differences in talking about "clean", "green", or "climate" in organizational names:
- US: More sensitivity and “muzzling” of terms.
- UK/Europe: Political backlash is emerging, with new parties opposing net zero, but language isn't as heavily policed yet.
"We are usually a step behind America, but then eventually catch up." – Akshat Rathi [03:50]
2. Distributed Energy Resources (DERs) for Load Growth
- Definition (Shayle): Anything at the customer site generating, storing, or shifting energy (rooftop solar, home batteries, smart thermostats, etc.)
- Shayle: "Underhyped" for managing new load growth (primarily data centers); growing interest among energy technologists, but still niche.
- Akshat: Once "overhyped," now "underhyped" because technologies like virtual power plants are finally being widely deployed (e.g., Octopus Energy’s programs in the UK).
- Cites customer incentives for load flexibility becoming more accessible and visible to the public.
"Now those technologies are here and they can actually be put to use." – Akshat Rathi [08:01] "We're in a second wave now..." – Shayle Kann [08:23]
3. Colocation of Generation (Gas Turbines On-site with Data Centers)
- Shayle: Slightly "overhyped" – although demand is real, only a minority of new data centers will have on-site gas. News creates an impression that this will be standard.
- Akshat: "Hyped just right" due to real supply chain constraints (long waits for gas turbines), but not every data center will co-locate generation.
"Very high in demand, and there's a year's waiting list before you can get the one you want." – Akshat Rathi [09:57]
4. Bottlenecks to Grid Expansion
a. Generating Capacity
- Both agree: Some bottleneck, especially for gas, but "overhyped" as the main constraint.
- Shayle notes: Data show enough capacity for several years ahead; bigger issue lies elsewhere.
b. Transmission Deliverability
- Akshat: Severely "underhyped" bottleneck; cites 12,000 Dutch businesses can't get grid connections; not just a US problem.
- Shayle: The slow pace of grid expansion is hampering new load and renewable integration globally.
"The Netherlands has 12,000 businesses waiting for an electricity connection." – Akshat Rathi [15:51]
c. Transformers
- Shayle: "Overhyped" as the limiting factor, though shortages are real. Predicts new manufacturing and technologies will help.
- Akshat: "Underhyped" for non-data-center users – holding up everything from housing to local industry; slow industry change due to conservative investment.
5. Venture Capital as a Tool for Scaling Climate Tech
- Akshat: "Overhyped", especially outside the US; cites BYD, CATL as global climate solutions that didn't rely on VC.
- Shayle: VC is "outsized" in translating new US tech from lab to market, though most capital globally is in infrastructure or non-VC companies.
- Discuss the US "0 to 1" vs. China’s "1 to 100" ecosystems, as well as threats to US science funding and innovation.
"Venture capital ... plays an outsized role in getting new technologies into commercialization." – Shayle Kann [25:00] "America is good at going from zero to one... but China is good at going from 1 to 100." – Akshat Rathi [26:44]
6. Policy: The Paris Agreement’s Impact on Business
- Shayle: "I don't hear about or think about the Paris Agreement at all" – not 'hyped' in his circles.
- Akshat: Paris is foundational as the origin of many modern climate policies, which businesses follow even if they don't cite Paris directly. Deep and wide-reaching, especially outside the US.
"Paris's impact on businesses is actually quite big because it has become translated into government policy." – Akshat Rathi [28:45]
7. Tech Grab Bag: Are These Overhyped, Underhyped, or Just Right?
a. Sodium-Ion Batteries
- Akshat: "Overhyped"; predicts only a small market share by 2040; challenging to displace entrenched lithium technologies.
- Shayle: "Hyped just right"; not massive buzz, but justified attention as Chinese manufacturers (CATL) commercialize.
b. Advanced Geothermal
- Both: US is leading the hype thanks to notable progress (e.g., Fervo Energy).
- Akshat: "Overhyped" globally – US has unique oil/gas talent/infrastructure; harder to scale elsewhere.
- Shayle: Locally “hyped just right”, globally may not scale soon.
c. Advanced Nuclear/Small Modular Reactors
- Akshat: "Overhyped" – Only Russia, China, and maybe South Korea are building them; technology and political issues limit near-term prospects in US/EU.
- Shayle: Hype is about right for the overall sector, but worried about too many individual projects versus needed “oligopoly” consolidation (as with gas turbines).
"I personally think in the long run, nuclear probably ends up looking like gas turbines look today..." – Shayle Kann [37:57] "To suddenly imagine that a new technology will unlock nuclear in Europe and North America, to me, is overhyped." – Akshat Rathi [36:57]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- On Transmission Barriers (Europe):
"The Netherlands has 12,000 businesses waiting for an electricity connection. Companies like ASML ... can't get an electricity connection for years." – Akshat Rathi [15:51]
- On the Paris Agreement’s Real-world Legacy:
"It's tentacles have far reaching impact, even if most people don't see the direct connection." – Akshat Rathi [30:09]
- On Venture Capital Myths and Global Innovation:
"America is good at going from zero to one ... but China is good at going from 1 to 100." – Akshat Rathi [26:44]
- On the Industrial Bottleneck Hype:
"Transformers are incredibly important ... But I do think we’ll see a wave of new transformer manufacturing come online." – Shayle Kann [18:43]
Timestamps for Major Segments
- Nomenclature & Political Climate: [03:20-04:32]
- DERs and Load Growth: [04:32-08:23]
- Colocated Gas Generation for Data Centers: [09:40-11:22]
- Grid Bottlenecks—Capacity, Transmission, Transformers: [13:07-21:37]
- Venture Capital in Climate Tech: [23:33-27:55]
- Policy: Paris Agreement: [27:55-30:31]
- Emerging Tech Grab Bag: [31:10-40:43]
Tone and Format
The conversation is fast-paced, friendly, and often self-deprecating. Both hosts challenge each other, blending optimism about climate tech with hard-won skepticism from years covering disappointing hype cycles. The tone remains pragmatic and open-minded about competing solutions and global perspectives.
For Listeners
This episode provides an accessible, critical lens on the climate tech landscape, clarifying which headlines matter and which trends may be misleading, and offers a window onto industry and policy debate for those wanting to cut through the hype.
Ideal for:
- Founders, investors, and policymakers in climate and energy
- Analysts/engineers following the global transition
- Anyone wanting to understand what’s real vs. overblown in clean energy technology & policy