Catalyst with Shayle Kann
Episode: Can AI Revolutionize EPC?
Date: December 11, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Shayle Kann explores the persistent inefficiencies in the engineering, procurement, and construction (EPC) industry for large capital projects—and investigates if artificial intelligence and modern technology can offer a step-change in how these projects are delivered. The guest is Alex Modan, CEO and co-founder of Unlimited Industries, a newly unstealthed startup aiming to reinvent the EPC sector with an AI-first, technology-driven approach and radically different incentives.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The Problem with Today’s EPC Model

• Fundamental Issue: There’s a misalignment in incentives between project developers (who want fast, efficient, on-budget builds) and EPC firms (often rewarded when projects cost more and take longer).
  • Alex Modan [04:43]: “As a third party contractor, your incentive is really we only make money when the project costs more and takes longer. So yeah, high level. What’s broken is...the incentive structure.”
• Two Types of Contracts:
  • Cost-plus: Contractors add margin to costs—little motivation for cost reduction.
  • Fixed firm: Rigid contracting that results in frequent, high-margin change orders as inevitable changes occur.
  • Alex Modan [06:38]: “Or there’s sometimes these contracts...where that third party will actually say, 'hey, we’ll build it for this much.' But...when things change, which inevitably they always do, you get issued these like massive change orders...That’s where that kind of third party EPC typically makes all their margins.”
• Complexity and Risk: The unpredictability of costs, availability of labor, and commodity price volatility makes risk difficult to manage—so contracts are designed to offload that risk onto the client or result in costly overruns.
  • Alex Modan [08:46]: “It’s really hard to know up front how much exactly is the thing going to cost...the contracts effectively are this big risk mitigation strategy.”

2. Why Do Project Costs Stay High?

• Lack of Iteration and Learning: Each project is treated as a unique “n of 1,” meaning there’s little transfer of learning or iterative improvement.
  • Alex Modan [12:27]: “When we move into projects world, everything’s a snowflake. Even a project that we’re building... that next refinery that we build is still an N of one project.”
• Slow Adoption of Technology: Unlike manufacturing, the project world misses out on “learning rates” and continuous improvement.

3. Opportunity for Technology and AI in EPC

• Accelerating Pre-Construction Design: Unlimited Industries built an AI-native platform to integrate all engineering, design, and procurement workflows—enabling much deeper upfront design and cost certainty at low marginal cost.
  • Alex Modan [20:39]: “We have built a lot of technology to help accelerate that pre construction phase...and we have a software and kind of like an AI native version of this that helps accelerate the chemical design, mechanical, electrical, civil, structural controls.”
• Practical AI Integration:
  • Unified Data Model: All project data and software tools live within a single integrated system, streamlining tasks and enabling AI-driven processes.
  • Task Delegation to AI: Engineers can have AI agents explore design trades, price estimations, or vendor selections that would otherwise require manual research and analysis.
  • Alex Modan [26:33]: “Our AI will go explore that different design path… that’s an LLM who’s doing a lot of that work...it’s grounded both inside our data for the project...and the tools that we’ve fed it.”
  • Contrast with Legacy Software: Existing EPC software is siloed and out-of-date, resulting in redundant work and resistance to automation.
    • Alex Modan [23:28]: “Most of the software in this industry really hasn’t changed much in the last maybe 20 years...There’s no real incentive structure for an EPC to want better software.”

4. Reduction of Risk & Novel Contracting Models

• More Complete Upfront Definition: By leveraging AI to push engineering to 100% completion before contracting, the company can offer fixed-price contracts with genuine risk transfer—no change orders.
  • Alex Modan [29:48]: “We literally put no change orders in our contracts.”
  • Shael Khan [29:53]: “You wear all the risk. Basically if there’s a cost overrun, you’re going to go negative on the project.”
• Hedging Against Volatility: The model allows for either immediate purchasing of all materials upon contract execution, or financial hedging against commodity price swings.
  • Alex Modan [32:02]: “We will know all that at this point in time because we’re not 30% definition, we’re 100% engineering definition...Let’s purchase everything, or let’s design hedges from a cost perspective so that we’re not exposed to some sort of volatility or risk.”

5. Initial Application: Data Centers

• Why Data Centers First: Rapid growth, high importance of speed to market, and continuous innovation makes this sector ideal for AI-powered EPC processes.
  • Alex Modan [28:22]: “In the data center use case specifically speed is really an important lever for them…we can massively collapse that period of time [design phase].”
• Expanding Applicability: The same approaches extend to all large industrial projects (power generation, battery storage, chemical plants).

6. Managing Subcontractors & Scaling

• Short Term: Unlimited Industries partners with local general contractors/trades, relying on detailed specs to reduce risk and cost ballooning.
• Long Term: Plans to vertically integrate and internalize as much of the process as possible, further aligning incentives and squeezing risk out.
  • Alex Modan [34:11]: “Certainly long term we will do everything in house. We will vertically integrate as much as possible because that’s where you can fix the incentives all the way through.”

7. Timeline for Implementation

• First Project: Goal is to have their first constructed project delivered by end of next year (2026).
  • Alex Modan [35:28]: “Hopefully by end of next year.”
  • Shael Khan [35:33]: “Fast is the rule.”

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On misaligned incentives:
  • Alex Modan [04:43]: “As a third party contractor, your incentive is really we only make money when the project costs more and takes longer.”
• On the limits of conventional improvement:
  • Shael Khan [12:41]: “The problem with solar is that the module costs have fallen much faster than the installed costs have.”
• On legacy EPC software:
  • Alex Modan [23:28]: “Most of the software in this industry really hasn’t changed much in the last maybe 20 years…there’s no real incentive structure for an EPC to want better software.”
• On AI in engineering:
  • Alex Modan [26:33]: “That’s an LLM who’s doing a lot of that work. And importantly… it’s grounded both inside the data for the project…and the tools that we’ve fed it.”
• On the new fixed-price model:
  • Alex Modan [29:48]: "We literally put no change orders in our contracts."

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [02:47] Shayle sets up the problems with the current EPC process
• [04:36–07:32] Alex Modan explains EPC misaligned incentives and contract structures
• [12:05–14:14] Why lack of iteration and “project as snowflake” mentality drives up costs
• [20:12–23:28] How Unlimited Industries uses AI to accelerate engineering and design
• [26:02–28:22] How AI actually integrates into project design—real-world task delegation
• [29:30] The “no change orders” contract and how risk is mitigated using tech
• [34:11] Discussion of subcontractors and the goal of vertical integration
• [35:28] Timetable for first constructed project: aiming for delivery end of 2026

Episode Tone

The conversation balances technical depth and industry critique with a pragmatic optimism—recognizing structural limitations in existing EPC practices while highlighting how modern, AI-powered solutions can create truly disruptive shifts in outcomes.

Guests: Shayle Kann (host), Alex Modan (CEO & co-founder, Unlimited Industries)
Produced by Latitude Media, December 11, 2025