Catholic Answers Live – Episode #12455

Theme: Why Does It Take So Long To Become Catholic? Free Will and LGBT Issues
Host: Cy Kellett
Guest: Joe Heschmeyer
Date: November 12, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode of Catholic Answers Live, Cy Kellett invites non-Catholic listeners to share their reasons for not being Catholic, providing a platform for genuine dialogue, honest questions, and pastoral responses. Catholic apologist and author Joe Heschmeyer addresses a wide range of live call-in questions, from practical barriers to entering the Church and navigating Church teaching on controversial issues (such as LGBT topics and free will), to common misunderstandings about Catholic doctrine and practice. The conversation is lively, informative, and sprinkled with humor, making complex theological and pastoral topics approachable for all listeners.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Meaning and Use of Anti-Catholic Slurs (00:31–05:43)

• Opening Banter: The hosts discuss historical anti-Catholic terms like "Papist," "Romanist," "mackerel snapper," and "left footer," noting how terms originally meant as insults can be ironically reclaimed (e.g., "Yankee").

• Notable Quote:

  "I'm a big believer in the ironic appropriation of language." – Joe Heschmeyer (01:50)

• Takeaway: There's a lighthearted but important underlying point: prejudices still exist against Catholics worldwide, and though joking about insults might be tempting in safe settings, real suffering endures for Catholics elsewhere.

2. Barriers to Becoming Catholic – OCIA Process and Practical Issues (05:44–11:00)

• Caller: Bobby from Oklahoma – Struggling to complete the OCIA (Order of Christian Initiation for Adults) process due to a demanding work schedule.

• Joe’s Pastoral Response:

  • OCIA is not an absolute divine necessity—priests can and do make accommodations for those with scheduling conflicts.
  • The important thing is demonstrating a sincere desire to learn about and join the faith.
  • Switching parishes or doing OCIA at one parish but attending Mass elsewhere is normal and acceptable.

• Notable Quote:

  "It's one family, it's one church and it doesn't matter which door you're walking in... It's the same church." – Joe Heschmeyer (09:24)

• Resource Offered: Why We’re Catholic by Trent Horn (10:02)

3. Catholic Teaching on LGBT Issues and Church Consistency (14:34–19:21)

• Caller: Michael from Buffalo – Asked about news that a man married to another man was baptized and made a godparent, sparking confusion among OCIA students.
• Joe’s Nuanced Explanation:
  • Something was done incorrectly; Church teaching did not change.
  • A sponsor or godparent should model the faith; living in contradiction to Church moral teachings precludes serving in these roles.
  • Such cases are pastoral errors, not changes in doctrine.
• Notable Quote:

  "If you're serious about the Christian life... you have to actually do that. You can't just choose to follow in the places where it's comfortable or convenient. But you do have to make a decisive break from sin." – Joe Heschmeyer (16:37)

4. Catechesis vs. Evangelization – Defining Catholic Terms (20:29–23:01)

• Caller: Mark from Georgia – Formerly Catholic, now Baptist, asks about the meaning of "catechist."
• Explanation:
  • Evangelization invites people into initial faith.
  • Catechesis is a deeper, structured teaching about the faith.
  • The catechist instructs and forms believers in doctrine and Christian practice.
• Notable Moment:

  "The evangelist... gets them in the door. And then the catechist... does the... process of fully educating someone... in the teaching of the Church." – Cy Kellett (21:42)

5. Numbering of the Ten Commandments – Why Variation Exists (23:07–33:51)

• Caller: Mark from Georgia (cont.) – Why do Catholic and Protestant versions number the Ten Commandments differently?
• Joe’s Explanation:
  • The Commandments appear in slightly varied form in Exodus 20 and Deuteronomy 5 and aren’t numbered in the original text.
  • Numbering is a matter of tradition and grouping, not substantive change—Catholics and Protestants affirm the same content.
  • Catholics separate coveting neighbor’s wife (lust) and property (greed) as distinct commandments, and fold the “graven images” command under the broader first commandment on idolatry.
• Notable Quote:

  "We have the same content, but we number it differently because... it’s not numbered within the Bible. And everyone has to figure out where to put the bullet points." – Joe Heschmeyer (25:08)

6. Catholic Statues & Praying to Saints – Is It Idolatry? (33:51–37:16)

• Caller: Mark from Georgia (cont.) – How to answer the charge that praying to saints/statues is idolatry.
• Joe’s Clarification:
  • Prayer in Catholic tradition is not synonymous with worship; prayer is simply communication or request, whereas worship (proper only to God) involves sacrificial offering.
  • Asking saints for intercession is simply asking fellow Christians in heaven for prayers, just as we ask each other on earth.
  • Biblical/statue context: God commands carved images (e.g., cherubim) in the Old Testament as long as they aren’t worshipped as idols.
• Notable Quote:

  "If we ask the saints to ask for things for us, that's not worship. That is prayer... but it's not worship." – Joe Heschmeyer (34:19)

7. Free Will and Divine Foreknowledge – Is the Universe Deterministic? (37:59–43:46)

• Caller: Steven from Minnesota (on behalf of his atheist brother) – If God knows the future, is free will an illusion?
• Joe’s Response:
  • Knowledge of future actions does not cause or determine those actions.
  • Analogy: Knowing the outcome of a recorded game doesn’t mean the players lacked free will when playing.
  • God’s knowledge is outside of time; He sees all at once, but humans act freely within time.
• Notable Example:

  "If you’re on a mountain and see two cars about to crash... your knowledge isn’t forcing that to happen. They could move out of the way, but you know from watching that they’re not going to. That’s foreknowledge, but it’s not a deterministic sort of foreknowledge." – Joe Heschmeyer (43:16)

8. The Papacy: Historical and Theological Challenges (45:51–54:29)

• Caller: Benjamin from Peoria, IL – Critical of papal authority citing historical issues (multiple popes, Avignon Papacy).
• Joe’s Defense:
  • Jesus established a hierarchical, top-down leadership with Peter as the visible head (the “rock”).
  • Church Fathers attest to succession from Peter to subsequent bishops of Rome.
  • There have been schisms and anti-popes, but this doesn’t invalidate the papacy anymore than counterfeits invalidate the concept of money.
  • Resource: Joe’s book, Pope Peter.
• Notable Quote:

  "You can have counterfeit money and it doesn't mean money's not real. You can have two different people who claim they’re married to the same woman, and it doesn't mean she doesn't have a husband." – Joe Heschmeyer (53:10)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On “Papist” and language reclamation:

  "Those are big clues to any Catholic listening, like, oh, this is not a person to be taken seriously. Like, this person wants to do more like name calling than to rationally and charitably search for the truth." – Joe (01:50)

• On entering the Church despite obstacles:

  "OCIA isn’t a matter of divine necessity... do what you can... communicate that with the priest... they can often work with you." – Joe (07:00)

• On why Church teachings on sexuality matter at baptism:

  "If you’re serious about the Christian life... you have to make a decisive break from sin." – Joe (16:37)

• On statues/idols:

  "It is a prohibition against idolatry... the first commandment is about not having other gods, and an idol is having another god." – Joe (33:58)

• On foreknowledge & free will:

  "God’s knowledge isn’t forcing [something] to happen... it’s not a deterministic sort of foreknowledge." – Joe (43:16)

• On the troubled history of the papacy:

  "It was a bad moment in terms of the legacy of the Church, but there was always a Pope throughout." – Joe (54:18)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• 00:31–05:43: Banter on anti-Catholic slurs and irony in language
• 05:44–11:00: Barriers to becoming Catholic – OCIA and parish issues
• 14:34–19:21: Complicated pastoral cases and LGBT issues in the Church
• 20:29–23:01: Definitions and differences between evangelization and catechesis
• 23:07–33:51: Numbering the Ten Commandments and responding to accusations of idolatry
• 37:59–43:46: Free will vs. divine foreknowledge – philosophical argument
• 45:51–54:29: Papal authority, Church history, and the problem of anti-popes

Tone & Style

The episode maintains a welcoming, neighborly, and sometimes irreverently witty attitude—balancing sincere, orthodox Catholic answers with empathy for the lived experiences and objections of non-Catholics. Both hosts field even hard or uncomfortable questions graciously, making a case for both truth and charity in Catholic evangelization.

Summary

Listeners gain not just theological clarity on central Catholic claims (apostolic succession, Church teaching on sexuality, the meaning of liturgical rites) but also practical advice for navigating faith journeys complicated by personal circumstances, cultural history, and common objections. The dialogue encourages respectful engagement and a deeper understanding for all parties—Catholic or not.

For those interested in resources mentioned, books such as "Why We’re Catholic," "Pope Peter," and "The Saints Pray for Us" were offered, and listeners are encouraged to stay in touch or follow Joe Heschmeyer’s work at Shameless Popery.