Catholic Answers Live #12463: "Does Purgatory Undermine Jesus’ Sacrifice? Eucharist and Salvation"

Date: November 18, 2025 | Guest: Dr. Karlo Broussard
Host: Thomas Graff (filling in for Sy Kellett)

Episode Overview

This episode tackles some of the most commonly misunderstood or controversial Catholic doctrines—chiefly purgatory, the sufficiency of Christ's sacrifice, assurance of salvation, and the reality of grace through the sacraments. Dr. Karlo Broussard, Catholic apologist and author, fields challenging questions from callers—both Protestant and Catholic—clarifying Church teaching, scriptural foundation, and responding to objections with both theological and pastoral insight.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Write Books on “Controversial” Doctrines?

[01:42-03:52]

• Broussard explains his books (“Purgatory is for Real,” “The Saints Pray for You,” “Baptism Now Saves You”) were written in response to persistent questions and misunderstandings from both Catholics and Protestants—especially about doctrines like purgatory, intercession of saints, and baptism.

  “For purgatory and the saints, the answer is yes... those were two top ranked topics often asked about on Catholic Answers Live, especially during Catholic-Protestant distinctive dialogues. We decided to write a book…because we didn't have resources in book form in our catalog.”
  —Karlo Broussard [02:47]

2. Does Purgatory Undermine Christ’s Sacrifice?

[05:36-14:50]

Common Protestant Objection

Protestants often argue that purgatory implies Jesus’s sacrifice was insufficient; if He paid the debt for sin, why would any suffering after death (purgatory) be needed?

Catholic Response

• Definition of Sufficiency: Catholics affirm Christ’s sacrifice is “sufficient”—powerful enough to remove all guilt and punishment for sin. The question is how God chooses to apply those merits through salvation history.

• Order of Application:

  • All guilt and punishment for sin is removed in baptism.
  • For sins committed after baptism, eternal guilt is remitted in forgiveness, but temporal consequences (“debt”) may remain. God, in His Providence, sometimes allows the Christian to participate in this purification—culminating, if unfinished in this life, in purgatory.

  “We do not believe that we must suffer for our past sins because Jesus's death was not powerful enough. In fact…the Catechism…teaches that Jesus's death takes away all things involved with sin, both the guilt and all punishment, temporal and eternal. In baptism, it's all washed away.”
  —Karlo Broussard [06:55]

• Scriptural Foundation:

  • 1 Corinthians 3:11–15: St. Paul envisions a Christian (already saved) undergoing purifying loss after death—“suffering loss … but he himself will be saved, but only as through fire.”
  • Hebrews 12:5–6: “The Lord disciplines him whom He loves and chastises every son whom He receives”—chastisement here connotes punishment (not just correction) even for the already-saved.

  “This reveals to us that God still wills to impose suffering on account of past wrongdoing…I.e. He still wills to punish those who have already been born again.”
  —Karlo Broussard [13:05]

• Conclusion:
  The application of Christ’s merits in purgatory does not insult or undermine His sacrifice, but rather is part of how God perfects His children.

3. Can Catholics Know They Are Saved? (Assurance of Salvation)

Caller: Mike, Rapid City, SD [18:47-25:55]

Caller’s Challenge

Mike, an ex-Catholic, questions why Catholics say salvation can be lost and why they lack absolute assurance—doesn’t this make salvation dependent on works? He cites 1 John 5:13 as “proof” Christians can know they have eternal life.

Catholic Clarification

• Kinds of Knowledge:

  • Catholics distinguish moral certainty (“I have good reason to think I am in a state of grace”) versus absolute certainty (precluding all doubt).
  • Because the New Testament warns repeatedly about falling away (e.g., Galatians 5:4, “you are severed from Christ, fallen from grace”), Catholics say Scripture does not guarantee unconditional, irrevocable perseverance (“once saved, always saved”).

• Works and Salvation:

  • Salvation is initiated by God’s grace and maintained/increased by ongoing cooperation—good works are not “earning” salvation, but living the relationship.
  • A Christian can commit mortal sin (serious, chosen, known evil), losing grace—but this does not mean salvation is “by works” apart from grace.

  “So the works that I perform that contribute to my relationship with the Lord...is on account of the grace of God. And because it's a relationship of love...there will be some deeds that are not loving...such that if I perform them and choose to do them, my will cannot possibly be compatible with the loving relationship with the Lord that we call salvation.”
  —Karlo Broussard [29:46]

4. Do the Sacraments Really Impart Grace If People Remain Unchanged?

Caller: Raymond, San Antonio, TX [34:03-43:59]

Caller’s Doubt

Raymond, a lifelong Catholic, says he no longer believes the sacraments convey grace, because he sees people receive them without apparent transformation—“wooden and mechanical.”

Pastoral/Theological Response

• The fruits of the sacraments do not depend on the holiness of the priest but the interior disposition of the recipient: “Just going through the motions” can block grace.

• Analogy: Like a kinked garden hose—water (grace) is available, but how much comes through depends on openness/disposition.

  “The fruits that come forth from the sacraments [are] dependent...on the devotion with which we receive the sacraments...If we receive the sacraments, in particular Holy Communion, with a high degree of love, more fruits will bear.”
  —Karlo Broussard [36:59]

• God is not bound by His sacraments; He can give grace outside of them (Catechism 1257). Merely checking boxes does not guarantee grace—interior love matters most.

5. Can Souls in Purgatory Pray for Us If They Can't Pray for Themselves?

Caller: Joe, San Diego, CA [47:18-51:42]

• Praying for self = merit: After death, souls can no longer increase in sanctifying grace (“merit”) for themselves (Hebrews 4:10; Revelation 14:13).
• Praying for others: As members of Christ’s Mystical Body, souls can manifest love for others through intercessory prayer, but not for increasing their own holiness.

6. Liturgical Practice: Kneeling at Communion & Eucharistic Adoration

Caller: John, Oklahoma [51:55-54:30]

• On Kneeling: Likely developed as public signs of humility and adoration in the liturgy, becoming common from the 5th century onward.
• Eucharistic Adoration: Derives from the Church’s faith in Christ’s enduring presence in the Eucharist, with extra-liturgical adoration practices evolving as belief deepened.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Purgatory & Christ’s Sacrifice:

  “On this assumption that sufficiency means Jesus's death is powerful enough, the objection holds no persuasive force against the Catholic position...because it assumes we're saying we must suffer for a particular reason, namely Jesus's death is not powerful enough, but that's not what we believe.”
  —Karlo Broussard [08:33]

• On Assurance of Salvation:

  “We simply reject the belief that we can know with the absolute certainty that precludes all possible doubt...because we want to respect what has been divinely revealed to us, namely that it's at least possible...to behave in such a way that they are severed from Christ after initially being in Christ.”
  —Karlo Broussard [22:12]

• On “Works-Based Salvation”:

  “Whatever work of love I do for the sake of my saving relationship with Christ, I cannot boast in that... because it is 100% the grace of God working through me... we reject [salvation by works of ourselves]; but if we mean the biblical paradigm where works of love are involved... because they are the result of God's grace... we have to go with that paradigm.”
  —Karlo Broussard [30:07-33:31]

• On Ritual vs. Real Transformation:

  “If we’re going to Mass void of love in our hearts, ain’t nothing gonna happen, and we’re gonna walk away from Mass...just pieces of board.”
  —Karlo Broussard [42:20]

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:37] – Why Broussard chose certain doctrines for his books
• [06:21] – Does purgatory deny the sufficiency of Christ’s sacrifice?
• [10:19] – Protestant notion of ongoing application of Christ’s merits refuted
• [18:47] – Assurance of salvation: Catholic vs. Protestant views
• [23:34] – Does Catholic teaching make salvation “works-based”?
• [34:03] – Sacraments and lack of observable transformation
• [36:50] – Analogy of grace as water in a hose (dispositions matter)
• [47:18] – Can souls in purgatory pray for us but not themselves?
• [51:55] – When did kneeling at communion and Eucharistic adoration arise?

Tone and Language

The episode balances scholarly, scriptural responses with empathetic, pastoral engagement, especially with callers expressing deep spiritual struggles.

Summary Conclusion

This episode showcases Catholic apologetics at its best: clarifying misunderstood doctrines, rooting answers in both Scripture and tradition, and meeting real questions with substantive, charitable responses. Dr. Broussard articulates why the Catholic view of purgatory and salvation aligns with, rather than opposes, the sufficiency of Jesus Christ’s sacrifice, and he illustrates how Catholic teaching holds together the importance of grace, faith, and authentic charity lived out in the Christian life.

For deeper exploration:

• Purgatory Is for Real – Karlo Broussard (shop.catholic.com)
• Catechism of the Catholic Church – Articles 1030–1032, 1257, 1263