Podcast Summary: Catholic Answers Live — Episode #12465

"Richard Dawkins Shook My Faith – Why Aren’t You Catholic?"

Date: November 19, 2025
Host: Thomas Graff (filling in for Cy Kellett)
Guest: Joe Heschmeyer (Catholic Answers Apologist, Author, Host of Shameless Popery)

Overview

In this call-in episode, non-Catholic listeners are invited to share why they aren’t Catholic or to pose questions about Catholicism. Joe Heschmeyer offers in-depth answers and explanations to common objections, questions stemming from recent encounters with atheism (especially Richard Dawkins), biblical translation controversies, church leadership scandals, scriptural genealogies of Jesus, Marian teachings, and issues of papal succession. The tone is conversational, thoughtful, and occasionally lighthearted, with a focus on genuine engagement and serious apologetics.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Dawkins Effect — Dealing with New Atheism

Caller: Andrew from Kansas ([06:50]–[14:54])

• Question: Andrew shares that encountering Richard Dawkins (specifically his debate with Jordan Peterson) deeply shook his faith, raising questions about biblical translation (Mary’s virginity) and the intellectual heft of New Atheism.
• Virgin Birth Translation Issue:
  • Dawkins claims the “virgin birth” is a result of a mistranslation (“almah” in Hebrew, “parthenos” in Greek).
  • Joe: “The Hebrew word there, alma, can mean any of those things [young woman, maiden, virgin] ... grammatically it could mean that [young woman], contextually it doesn’t … the Septuagint, well before the time of Christ, is predicting a virgin birth. And then you have a virgin birth.” ([09:11])
• Critiquing Dawkins:
  • Dawkins is described as having “arrogant” confidence with a lack of precision (e.g., he wrongly asserts the Bible was written in the Bronze Age, “off by about 2,000 years” [11:26]).
  • “He’s very good at convincing people who don’t know a subject matter that he must be right … but when you actually explore the arguments, you find out like there’s not nearly as much there as he would have you believe.” ([11:42])
• Recommendations for Further Reading:
  • The Dawkins Delusion by Alister McGrath
  • The Last Superstition by Edward Feser
  • Answering Atheism by Trent Horn
  • One Less God Than You by John DeRosa
  • Atheist Delusions by David Bentley Hart
  • John Lennox’s debates/interviews ([14:54])
• Memorable Moment:
  • “[Dawkins has] run from debates with serious Christian thinkers ... he won’t allow his ideas to be critically examined on the spot except by people who … aren’t equipped to push back.” ([12:34])
• General Advice: Reading apologetics resources equips Christians to answer the surface-level critiques of New Atheism.

2. Scandal in the Church — Authority & Accountability

Caller: Moses from El Paso, TX ([20:54]–[25:58], [29:33]–[33:44])

• Objection: Poor leadership, lack of accountability, history of sexual abuse and cover-up (“I worry that confession is used to hide sin instead of heal it.”).
• Joe’s Response:
  • Admits to historical and present leadership failures, noting that even the apostles had faults: “Poor leadership, you’re dead on the money ... but if poor leadership is a reason not to be Catholic, it would seemingly be a reason not to follow the apostles at all.” ([21:56])
  • Abuse is not unique to Catholicism; similar or worse patterns are found in other denominations and institutions (public schools, Jehovah’s Witnesses, etc.).
  • Significant reforms have taken place since the 2002 Dallas Charter (“Things have gotten significantly better ... people took the problem more seriously than they had before.” [24:05])
• On Pope Leo and Modern Accountability:
  • “He [Pope Leo] was asked about the Father Rupnik scandal ... he said ... ‘the principle of innocent until proven guilty is also true in the church. ... this trial that is just beginning will be able to give some clarity and justice to those involved.’” ([30:36])
• Ultimate Justice:
  • “There’s no one who is going to have authority without accountability, because that accountability is coming.” ([33:16])
  • Hebrews 13:17 cited as scriptural reassurance about ultimate accountability.

3. Jesus’ Genealogy — Bible Inconsistencies?

Caller: Juan from Houston, TX ([34:07]–[39:14])

• Objection: Protestant friend claims different genealogies in Matthew and Luke can’t both be for Joseph; one must be for Mary (or else he’s not “son of David” by blood).
• Joe’s Response:
  • Both genealogies are explicitly Joseph’s; legal adoption recognized as valid lineage under Jewish law.
  • “They are legally married at the time when the angel Gabriel comes. ... so the child legally [inherits] the Davidic line.” ([36:20])
  • The tradition that Luke’s genealogy is Mary’s is “not impossible ... but it’s not what the Bible actually says either.” ([38:32])
• Key Analogy:
  • “Just like, by the way, you’re a son of God, you are not a son of God by nature; you’re a son of God by adoption.” ([38:53])

4. Mary and Sinlessness — Scriptural and Patristic Defense

Caller: Donna from Baton Rouge, LA ([42:38]–[49:04])

• Discussion: Caller connects 1 John 3:9 to the doctrine of Mary’s sinlessness (“those who have been born of God do not sin ... God’s seed abides in them”).
• Joe’s Response:
  • Mary is “full of grace” — God’s seed abides in her “perfectly and quite literally.”
  • Distinguishes between being saved from sin and being preserved from sin (“the reason Mary’s without sin isn’t because she doesn’t need a savior ... it’s because God’s seed abides in her perfectly” [44:54]).
  • Cites typology: Mary as New Ark (2 Samuel 6/Luke 1 parallels, [47:03]) and New Eve (Eve as sinless virgin, Mary’s angelic visitation).
  • Recommends reading early Fathers (Justin Martyr, Irenaeus) on Mary/Eve parallel.
• Memorable Moment:
  • “If God fills you with his grace such that you don’t sin ... that doesn’t mean you don’t need a savior. ... If the guardrails keep you from going off the edge, you wouldn’t say they’re not saving you because you didn’t fall off the edge.” ([44:51])

5. Papal Succession — The “Paper Trail” of Popes

Caller: David from North Dakota ([49:21]–[54:26])

• Question: Where is the proof or “paper trail” that papal authority passed from Peter down through history?
• Joe’s Response:
  • Earliest source: Irenaeus (ca. 180 AD), who records not only a list of bishops but also is the first to list the four canonical Gospels. He traces the lineage from Peter/Paul through Linus, Anacletus, Clement, etc.
  • Tertullian (ca. 200 AD) attests that apostolic churches kept written records of episcopal succession and challenges heretics to produce similar records, which they could not.
  • “This is a very Christian way of arguing, because this is how the Christians disproved heresies in the earliest days of the church. We have a written record trail going back to the time of the apostles and you don’t.” ([54:01])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Dawkins’ Style:
  • “He’s very arrogant, very self-assured ... very good at convincing people who don’t know a subject matter that he must be right … But when you actually explore the arguments, you find out there’s not nearly as much there as he would have you believe.” – Joe Heschmeyer ([11:42])
• On Church Scandal:
  • “Poor leadership, you’re dead on the money ... but if poor leadership is a reason not to be Catholic, it would seemingly be a reason not to follow the apostles at all.” – Joe Heschmeyer ([21:56])
• On Papal Accountability:
  • “There’s no one who is going to have authority without accountability, because that accountability is coming.” – Joe Heschmeyer ([33:16])
• On Mary’s Sinlessness:
  • “If the guardrails keep you from going off the edge ... you wouldn’t say they’re not saving you because you didn’t fall off the edge …” – Joe Heschmeyer ([44:51])
• On the Historical Case for Papal Succession:
  • “We have a written record trail going back to the time of the apostles, and you don’t.” – Joe Heschmeyer ([54:01])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [06:50]: Andrew questions Dawkins, biblical virginity translation, and New Atheism
• [09:11]: Joe on alma/parthenos and prophecy of the virgin birth
• [11:42]: Critique of Dawkins’ scholarship and debate avoidance
• [14:54]: Recommendations for answering New Atheism
• [20:54]: Moses’ concerns with Church scandals and authority
• [21:56]: Joe on poor leadership among apostles and throughout Church history
• [30:36]: Joe on current Church reform and Pope Leo’s handling of abuse scandals
• [33:16]: Scriptural reassurance on accountability
• [34:07]: Juan’s genealogy question; Joseph’s legal sonship
• [38:53]: Adoption as biblical means of inheritance
• [42:38]: Donna’s Marian question, typology, and patristic evidence
• [44:51]: Joe’s analogy on being saved from sin
• [49:21]: David’s succession question; Irenaeus & Tertullian’s early records
• [54:01]: Written apostolic succession as early Christian argument

Resources Recommended by Joe Heschmeyer

• Answering Atheism — Trent Horn
• One Less God Than You — John DeRosa
• The Last Superstition — Edward Feser
• The Dawkins Delusion — Alister McGrath
• Atheist Delusions — David Bentley Hart
• Polycarp and Irenaeus — Early Church Fathers for studying succession and Mary/Eve typology
• Shameless Popery — Joe’s own podcast and YouTube channel

Tone & Style

• Respectful, patient, and occasionally humorous ("If that's why you’re not Catholic is Joe’s water-stained shirt, you can call us too...")
• Earnest and scripturally grounded apologetics
• Encourages reading both modern scholarship and early Christians
• Willing to admit to Church failures but frames them in a historical and theological perspective

In sum:
This episode focuses on common reasons people cite for not becoming Catholic—intellectual doubts from New Atheism, Church scandal, scriptural disputes, Marian doctrines, and questions about papal succession—and features thoughtful rebuttals and resources for seekers and skeptics. Joe Heschmeyer’s approach is firm but cordial, rooted in both reason and history, offering both direct answers and references for deeper exploration.