Catholic Answers Live #12466

Main Theme:
Why Do We Need the Apostles, Mary, and the Saints? — Why Aren't You Catholic?
Date: November 20, 2025
Host: Thomas Graff (filling in for Cy Kellett)
Guest: Joe Heschmeyer, Catholic Answers Staff Apologist

Episode Overview

This episode of Catholic Answers Live is part of the recurring "Why Aren't You Catholic?" format, where callers—many exploring Catholicism or wrestling with Church teachings—present their stumbling blocks or questions to staff apologist Joe Heschmeyer. Key areas tackled in this hour include the biblical and theological foundations of apostolic authority, intercession of the saints and Mary, the practice of infant baptism, the relationship between religion and relationship, and scandals or weaknesses sometimes witnessed among Catholic clergy. The episode is alive with listener stories of conversion, struggles, and unexpected joys, including several moving stories about family, faith, and children.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Why Do We Need the Apostles? (Caller: John, Washington)

[04:58–11:23]

• Caller Question: After walking a coworker through the historical lineage of the Church, John was met with: "Who said we need the apostles?"
• Joe's Core Response:
  • Jesus Himself chose the apostles ("Didn't Jesus think he needed the apostles?" — Thomas, 06:11).
  • Scriptural Basis:
    • Ephesians 4: God gave the Church apostles, prophets, pastors, etc., to build up the body and protect from doctrinal error.
    • Acts 15: Early Church dealt with heresy and false teaching through apostolic authority.
    • Romans 10: “How can men preach unless they are sent?”
  • The Church is built "top-down"—we don’t vote for our bishops or pope, paralleling the biblical model.
  • Cites historical dangers of congregational or democratic models, referencing the mob choosing Barabbas over Christ.
• Notable Quote:
  • "We don't believe in that [bottom-up] model. And more importantly, Jesus Christ doesn't believe in that model. He gave us apostles so that the Church can protect us from being carried to and fro by every wind of doctrine, by the cunning of men, by their craftiness and deceitful wiles." (Joe, 09:20)

2. Do Catholics Have to Pray to Mary and the Saints? (Caller: Keith, Virginia)

[15:41–19:36]

• Caller’s concern: Heard from a Catholic nun that "you shouldn't bother Jesus with easy prayers; that's what Mary and the saints are for." Is it required to pray to saints?
• Joe’s Core Response:
  • Definitively opposes the "offload small prayers" concept as erroneous and not Catholic teaching.
  • Lumen Gentium (Vatican II): The Church “admonishes and encourages” devotion to Mary and the saints but warns against both "gross exaggerations" and "petty narrowmindedness."
  • Prayer to saints is strongly encouraged but not a legalistic necessity for Catholics.
  • Direct relationship with Jesus is primary; saints/Mary are supporters, not substitutes.
• Notable Quote:
  • "Don’t go to Mary or the saints in lieu of also going directly to Jesus Christ. This is in addition. It isn’t something where the Church mandates it." (18:30)

3. Religion Versus Relationship (Caller: Jerome, Georgia)

[20:04–25:22]

• Caller’s tension: From a Messianic Jewish background, Christian friends say "I prefer a relationship over a religion." Caller sees faith as both/and.
• Joe’s Core Response:
  • Biblical faith is fundamentally covenantal—which means relationship structured by religion.
  • Marriage analogy: Would never say "just a relationship, not a legal marriage." Structure is vital.
  • Cites 1 Timothy 3 and James 1: "Religion" used positively in Scripture.
  • Critique of modern notion (esp. among some Protestants) that "religion is negative."
  • Eucharist as the supreme expression of the relational/covenantal bond—central to understanding why Catholicism is both relationship and religion.
• Notable Quotes:
  • "The idea of having a relationship in a non-religious way with God is utterly nonsensical. The term for what we call a structured relationship with God is a covenant." (21:14)
  • "A healthy relationship has norms and rules and boundaries." (21:56)

4. Infant Baptism and Grace (Caller: Brianna, Indiana)

[29:35–37:26]

• Caller’s story: Evangelical/Pentecostal background, husband just entered OCIA and left atheism. Caller (formerly anti-Mary) now wrestling with infant baptism: "How can a 3-month-old be a new creation—what have they 'left behind'?"

• Joe’s Core Response:

  • Baptism is not something we do for God, but what God does for us—“born again” by water and Spirit (John 3).
  • Strong early Christian support: Irenaeus (AD 180) speaks of infants being "born again to God."
  • "Repent and be baptized": Not a strict order; sometimes belief precedes repentance, sometimes vice-versa.
  • Baptism heals from original sin—it's about God's initiative, not human achievement or age.

• Notable Quotes:

  • "Baptism isn’t something we do for God. Baptism is something God does for us." (31:57)
  • "He doesn’t make you wait to sin first before you’re allowed to join the family." (36:53)

• Memorable Moment:

  • Brianna shares emotional news: after infertility, prayers to God and tentative Marian prayers, they got a positive pregnancy test (36:29). The hosts and audience rejoice.

5. Scandal in the Church—What If Clergy Violate Church Morality? (Caller: Owen, Long Island, NY)

[43:01–48:41]

• Caller’s Dilemma: Son is Protestant and resists papal authority. He struggles to respond when priests (like Fr. James Martin) appear to publicly contradict Catholic teaching on sexuality and sacramental sponsorship.
• Joe’s Core Response:
  • Frank about the scandal ("the answer is very clearly no"—to a priest allowing same-sex married men to be sponsors).
  • Cites Catechism 1255 on the requirements for sponsors/godparents.
  • Discusses complexities in bishops’ responses, but affirms that such abuses from clergy are condemnable and not a reason to dismiss Catholic doctrine as a whole.
  • Larger principle: Scandals highlight the need for doctrinal and moral clarity—don’t let individual failings obscure the Church’s core teaching and structure.
• Quote:
  • "This is not going to be the fulcrum by which the Church’s sexual ethic is proved or disproved... But it is a case where a priest is giving public scandal. And it’s good that there are bishops who have spoken out." (48:13)

6. The Biblical Roots of Confession (Caller: Ryder, Knoxville, TN)

[49:41–54:52]

• Caller’s Uncle objects: “The Bible says, 'confess to one another,' so why go to a priest?” Is there a direct link between the biblical injunctions and Catholic confession?
• Joe’s Core Response:
  • All sin is corporate—it wounds the Body of Christ, not just the individual.
  • James 5:16: Confess to one another and pray for each other—applies universally among Christians as mutual support.
  • John 20: Jesus gives the apostles (and their successors) specific authority to forgive or retain sins.
  • Distinction: We should share faults with fellow Christians, but the priest, by Christ's institution, acts with unique authority.
• Notable Quote:
  • "The priest has the power to forgive sins, so we go to them in a special way." (54:47)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Jesus chose the apostles. So that’s our first clue. I think your clearest answer to that..." (Joe, 06:14)
• "We don’t believe in that model. More importantly, Jesus Christ doesn’t believe in that model." (Joe, 09:20)
• "Don’t go to Mary or the saints in lieu of also going directly to Jesus Christ. This is in addition… it isn’t something where the Church mandates it." (Joe, 18:30)
• "The idea of having a relationship in a non-religious way with God is utterly nonsensical... The term for what we call a structured relationship with God is a covenant." (Joe, 21:14)
• "Baptism isn’t something we do for God. Baptism is something God does for us." (Joe, 31:57)
• "He doesn’t make you wait to sin first before you’re allowed to join the family." (Joe, 36:53)
• Emotional highlight: Brianna’s announcement of pregnancy after infertility and prayers (including her first prayers to Mary for intercession) (36:29–36:48)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [04:58–11:23] - Apostolic authority and Church structure (John, Washington)
• [15:41–19:36] - Prayer to saints and Marian devotion—what is (and isn’t) required (Keith, Virginia)
• [20:04–25:22] - “Religion vs Relationship”—Biblical and covenantal understanding (Jerome, Georgia)
• [29:35–37:26] - Infant Baptism: God’s initiative, early Christianity, and family faith (Brianna, Indiana)
• [43:01–48:41] - Clerical scandal and how to defend the Church amid public failings (Owen, NY)
• [49:41–54:52] - Confession to one another vs. confession to a priest (Ryder, TN)

Tone and Style

The episode is friendly, encouraging, occasionally jocular, with genuine empathy, especially when callers share personal struggles or joys. Joe Heschmeyer teaches with a blend of scriptural depth, reference to Church documents, historical context, and practical pastoral sense, always careful to distinguish between Church teaching and popular misconceptions or exaggerations.

Conclusion

In this episode, Joe Heschmeyer addresses perennial questions and misconceptions about the necessity of apostolic authority, the place of Mary and the saints, the meaning of “religion” in Christianity, infant baptism, proper responses to scandal within Church leadership, and the biblical basis for the sacrament of confession. The calls reveal the heart and breadth of struggles and discoveries on the journey to (or within) Catholicism, from intellectual objections to deeply personal hopes and wounds. The answers consistently frame Catholic teaching as both faithfully historic and personally transformative, always seeking the balance between structure and relationship, tradition and living faith.

For further exploration: Joe references his books The Early Church Was the Catholic Church and The Eucharist Is Really Jesus for in-depth coverage on several of the episode's themes. Callers and listeners are invited to deepen their journey with these resources and encouraged to keep seeking, asking, and sharing as they explore Catholicism.