Catholic Answers Live – Episode #12479

"Is There an Actual Burning in Purgatory? Gnosticism and Mary" with Joe Heschmeyer

Date: November 28, 2025
Host: Cy Kellett
Guest: Joe Heschmeyer

Episode Overview

This engaging episode of Catholic Answers Live leans into the Thanksgiving spirit, both in conversation and structure. Host Cy Kellett and guest apologist Joe Heschmeyer spend the show answering "leftover" listener questions—calls that previously couldn't make it on air. Topics range from the nature of purgatory's purification, Gnosticism's errors, biblical familial language, and Eucharistic theology, all flavored with the duo's characteristic warmth and humor.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Thanksgiving Banter & Cultural Observations

• Opening (~00:55–09:00): Light conversational opening about Thanksgiving traditions, food, and the origins of the holiday.
  • Joe recounts celebrating Thanksgiving while studying in Rome, highlighting cultural differences (“You can’t even go to the store and get a lot of the things you would need...”).
  • Humorous musing on American holiday eating customs and how foods like pumpkin pie are “worth the wait” (04:40).

2. Is There an Actual Burning in Purgatory?

• Q from Jen in Massachusetts (11:25): Is there an actual burning in the cleansing of purgatory?
• Joe’s Answer (11:25–14:08):
  • Not a literal, physical fire—our souls after death are not affected by material flames.
  • The “fire” is an “interior fire of purification”—a searing of conscience, not body.
  • Scriptural basis: Isaiah 6 (burning coal purifies Isaiah’s lips), 1 Corinthians 3 (purification by fire after death).
  • Quote:

    "It’s not a burning of the body, but a sort of searing of the conscience and a purification of the soul."
    (Joe Heschmeyer, 13:58)

  • Cites Benedict XVI describing it as “an interior fire.”

3. Protestant Objection to John 6 & The Eucharist

• Q from Patrick in San Diego (14:34): How to answer the Protestant claim that Jesus's bread/flesh talk in John 6 is “spiritual,” not literal?
• Joe’s Answer (15:02–24:26):
  • Provides verse-by-verse walk-through of John 6: Jesus uses metaphor for bread, but explicitly says “The bread I shall give...is my flesh.”
  • Explains that “eat my flesh” and “drink my blood” are intentionally shocking to Jewish hearers and not resolvable as metaphors.
  • Responds to John 6:63: “The flesh is of no avail”—refers to unaided human understanding, not Christ’s flesh (“Don’t read passages about spirit and flesh as putting a fight between your body and your soul the way a Gnostic would” 22:49).
  • Clarifies that “spirit vs flesh” is not “metaphor vs literal” but “divine vs human effort.”
  • Quote:

    "He doesn’t say, ‘the bread is just my teaching.’ He says, yes, the bread of life you have to eat—that’s a metaphor for eating my flesh."
    (Joe Heschmeyer, 15:52)

4. What is Gnosticism? Is it Wrong?

• Q from Angela in Maryland (24:52): I don’t understand Gnosticism—does the Church teach this is wrong?
• Joe’s Answer (24:52–34:48 and after break):
  • Gnosticism was an early opponent of Christianity, teaching that matter/body is bad, spiritual is good, and sometimes that Christ was only “apparently” incarnate (Docetism).
  • Church strongly rejects Gnosticism; “the body is worth redeeming...the body is also created by God in goodness, so it is worth redemption.” (29:56)
  • Gnostics also invented secret “hidden teachings,” which the Church denies, citing apostolic succession as proof.
  • Points out the anti-woman strain in some Gnostic texts (e.g., apocryphal Gospel of Thomas).
  • Memorable moment:
    • Host Cy jokes: “It’s like the original religion of mansplaining, Gnosticism.” (34:48)

5. Are Bible Stories Myths? Sons of Thunder & Greek Mythology

• Q from John in Atlanta (35:00): How do we counter the claim that biblical stories are myths like Greek mythology (e.g., sons of thunder = sons of Zeus)?
• Joe’s Answer (35:27–39:27):
  • Greek myths lack historical anchors: “once upon a time” tales, not eyewitness testimony.
  • Gospels are written in a historical context; early Christians treated them as true, not mere allegory, unlike Greek myths or superheroes.
  • Points out that giving apostles a nickname (“sons of thunder”) is not mythic borrowing, but narrative detail.
  • Quote:

    “When you look at the ancient Greek myths...they don’t have very specific locations...nothing you could ever fact check. That's not how the early Christians treat the Bible.”
    (Joe Heschmeyer, 36:55)

6. Why Don’t We Hear About Mary’s Sisters?

• Q from Sydney in South Bend, IN (41:57): Why don’t we hear about Mary’s sisters?
• Joe’s Answer (41:57–49:22):
  • The Gospels focus on Christ, not extended family.
  • Ancient Hebrew lacked specific terms for cousin, aunt, etc.—so “brother” and “sister” cover wide relatives.
  • Traces “brothers of Jesus” as likely cousins, not literal siblings, and rebuts the claim with the evidence of Jesus entrusting Mary to John on the cross.
  • Quote:

    “We are trying to put a lot of pieces together without a ton of puzzle pieces.”
    (Joe Heschmeyer, 47:23)

7. Language Precision & Bible Reading

• Convo (48:15–50:58):
  • Explores how English (and Germanic languages) are more precise with kinship terms than ancient languages; misunderstanding leads to modern confusion.
  • Similarly, ancient and modern reckoning of days differ—"three days" includes today in biblical usage.

8. Can Non-Catholic, Non-Water Baptized Believers Be Saved?

• Q from John in Kansas (51:08): Can a non-Catholic, non-water bachelor's baptism save?
• Joe’s Answer (51:18–53:47):
  • God is not bound by the sacraments. Explicit rejection of baptism is rejection of salvation, but ignorance or lack of opportunity doesn’t exclude one from God’s mercy.
  • Describes “baptism of desire” (for catechumens who die before baptism) and God’s mercy for those who would have chosen baptism if they’d known.
  • Quote:

    “We are bound by the sacraments; God is not bound by the sacraments.”
    (Joe Heschmeyer, 51:18)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Thanksgiving banter:

  “If these foods were as good as people act like they are at Thanksgiving, we would eat them year-round.” (Joe, 04:24)

• Purgatory:

  “It is discipline, it is purification—but it is painful, like burning.” (Joe, 12:37)

• Gnosticism on women:

  “In some forms of the Gospel of Thomas...Mary Magdalene is told she can be saved by becoming a man...” (Joe, 34:23)
  “It’s like the original religion of mansplaining, Gnosticism.” (Cy, 34:48)

• Family language:

  “We just impose [our kinship precision] on a society that was not—they were not Germanic.” (Cy, 47:51)

• Scriptural precision:

  “You are assuming that words have the exact same range of meaning in English as they do in ancient Hebrew. And there’s just no reason to assume that.” (Joe, 49:11)

Timestamps for Important Segments

| Timestamp | Topic | |:-----------|:----------------------------------------------------------------------| | 11:25 | Is there literal burning in purgatory? | | 15:02 | John 6 and the Eucharist: spiritual or literal eating? | | 24:52/29:14| What is Gnosticism? Does the Church reject it? | | 35:00 | Are biblical stories just myths like Greek mythology? | | 41:57 | Why don't we hear about Mary’s sisters in scripture? | | 51:08 | Can non-Catholic, non-water-baptized believers be saved? |

Tone & Style

The show maintains its trademark blend of serious theological depth and good-natured humor. Both Cy and Joe keep the atmosphere warm and accessible, anchoring explanations in scripture and tradition while fielding even esoteric questions with clarity and a touch of playfulness (“leftovers” theme; Thanksgiving jokes).

Final Notes

For listeners new and longtime alike, this episode exemplifies Catholic Answers Live's mission: thoughtful, scripture-rooted, and joyfully orthodox answers to real-world faith questions—with a side of wit and gratitude befitting the season.