
Have you ever wanted to grow in your understanding and devotion to the Glorious Mysteries of the Rosary? Join Dr. Ben Akers and professors from the Augustine Institute Graduate School as they walk through these Biblical mysteries and seek to grow in understanding and love for Christ through them.
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A
Hi and welcome to form. Now we are in the fourth part of our five part series on the glorious mysteries of the Rosary. Today we are going to cover the Assumption. And with me is Dr. John Seehorn, who is a professor at the Augustine Institute, Graduate School of Theology. I am Taylor Kemp. How are you doing, John?
B
I'm fine. How are you, Taylor?
A
I am wonderful. So let's dive right into the Assumption. I was thinking, could you just walk us through what exactly is the belief about the Assumption?
B
Sure. So the assumption, it's not so much about an unfounded conclusion, which is usually what we talk about. Don't make assumptions. Right. No. In this case, the word assumption just comes from a Latin word, assumptio, which means a kind of, a kind of taking up. Okay. And it's. This refers to the belief that at the end of her life on earth, Mary was taken up into heaven, not only her soul, but also, but also her body. So this is a defined dogma. A lot of the details around it, though, we don't really know. There's a whole kind of panoply of legends that arise in the early church about what exactly this, this looked like. So, for example, the vast majority of our early witnesses about this attest to the fact that Mary died before being assumed into heaven. But we're not required to believe that. Right. And then there's also, there is diversity of opinion in the tradition about whether she was resurrected on earth before being taken into heaven. But the point of the dogma and the really important thing for our faith is to know that Mary already shares perfectly body and soul in the resurrected life of Jesus in heaven. Yeah.
A
And I thought, could you maybe distinguish a little bit. I've heard the question, what is the difference between Mary's assumption into heaven and Jesus ascension into heaven?
B
You know, actually what's interesting is the Greek term for assumption, analepsis. For those of you who are taking notes, that term actually is used to talk about Jesus being taken into heaven as well. And so, you know, we can distinguish them though, in a certain sense in that Mary's assumption is entirely passive. Yes, Right, right. She is taken by God into heaven. Now, we can also talk about God the Father raising Jesus from the dead. Right. By the power of the Holy Spirit. But we can also, in the New Testament, does also talk about Jesus rising from the dead because he himself conquers death. So the key difference here, right, is that what we see in Jesus's resurrection and ascension is his own conquest of death, his own victory over death. In Our lady what we see is her participation, her sharing of it, in Jesus's victory over death.
A
Okay, awesome. So with that, let's look more into the Scriptures now, which, especially for the fourth and fifth mysteries, the glorious mysteries of the rosary, it can be a little harder. They're not as explicit as some of the other mysteries of the rosary that we are looking at. And so something that's part of our Catholic tradition is something called typology, which we're going to be looking at a little bit here. Do you want to just touch on just kind of what is behind that and then. And then move us into where can we see some of these types or how can we start to understand Mary's Assumption scripturally?
B
Sure. Well, I mean, I think a really good place to start is with the readings that the church actually appoints for the Feast of Assumption.
A
They find it for you.
B
It totally is. In fact, there have been times, Taylor, especially since I'm a convert to the faith, I wasn't raised Catholic. Same. Same for you. When I kind of started studying typology and I would like the connections. I just.
A
I just listen to you guys.
B
I kind of started making some of these connections, and I was, like, really excited about them.
A
Yeah.
B
And then I went and looked in the lectionary and like, yeah, the churches are. That's just really good.
A
When I was converting, I was reading some Scott Hahn books, which have a lot of typological things in it. And then I remember at the. When I was a graduate student here going into the catechism, and I thought that, like, everything he was telling me was completely new. And then I looked at the catechism, I was like, oh, it's right.
B
That's right. That's the idea.
A
Right.
B
We want to be scribes who are trained for the kingdom, who are bringing out things old and new. Yes.
A
The readings.
B
So, yeah. Going to the readings for the Assumption. Well, the first reading we'll talk about a little bit, and I think you'll also discuss it more with Dr. Klein. When you talk about Our Lady's coronation is from the end of Revelation 11, beginning of Revelation 12. So we could turn there a little bit later. But I think a really great place to start actually is with the Gospel. And this is really puzzling for people because we don't have, as you mentioned, we don't have an explicit account of the moment when Mary was in fact taken into heaven in Scripture. So what do we read for the Gospel? What we actually read is the story of the visitation.
A
Yeah. Which is Surprising.
B
And this, of course, is the second joyful mystery. So this is familiar if you've been following the rosary series. And it's the description of Mary. After the Annunciation, she's conceived the Lord Jesus in her womb. She. She arises and goes with haste to visit her kinswoman, Elizabeth, who, of course, is pregnant with John the Baptist. John the Baptist leaps in Elizabeth's womb. You have this beautiful greeting between the two, and then it leads to the magnificat, Mary's sort of beautiful song of praise. Right. And I just. I love this whole story. But you think, well, why. Why in the world would this be associated with the conception? Okay. So I'm gonna. Going to impose on your patience a little bit in order to kind of see how this works. So, you know, you mentioned typology, Taylor, and typology is a way of reading the Bible using your fingers.
A
Okay.
B
Because you got to be able to, like, stick your finger in one part of the Bible and be ready to look back and forth and compare things, Right? Because sacred Scripture is inspired by a single divine author who's unfolding a single really beautiful plan of salvation. And so we need to be ready to kind of flip back and forth and see how these things work. So if you want to stick your finger in your Bible, put one In Luke, chapter one, verses 39 to 45, the story of the visitation, and the other one in two Samuel, chapter six. Now, this is really important. What's going on in second Samuel, chapter six is that King David has just managed to. To reunite all the tribes of Israel, okay? And he's taken Jerusalem, and he's going to bring the Ark of God now to Jerusalem. There's a whole backstory to what had happened to the Ark. But, of course, the ark, if you remember, is where God, in a special way, dwelt among his people. So this is a very important moment when David is.
A
This is huge.
B
Oh, yeah. David's establishing a united kingdom of Israel centered in Jerusalem, and he's bringing the Ark of God's presence there. If you read the account of what goes on there, we won't be able to go through it entirely. But I'd encourage everybody to take time to read both of these in detail. And one of the things that we notice is there are certain details in the stories that align very similar in really intriguing ways. So, I mean, you have an MA from the Augusta Institute, Taylor. So I'm gonna quiz you, what are a couple of those details?
A
So some of the details are it is in the Hill Country.
B
That's right. That's right. The Ark had been in the hill country right before coming to Jerusalem.
A
And then David's gonna go get it.
B
Okay, well. So. And then Mary goes to the hill country. Hill country on both stories. I'm telling you, it's the flipping.
A
I know, sorry. The fingers. Yes. So Mary goes into the hill country of Israel. Isabel.
B
That's right. Yep.
A
She's gonna stay there for three months. And. Am I jumping over there?
B
No, that's right. Okay, well, so an interesting thing. If I could pause you for a second. An interesting thing about the way that the details line up is that they don't sort of line up in, like, you can just draw straight lines across them. They're just kind of all there in a different order. And that's actually, for the fathers of the Church, one of the indications that this is not doctored. Right. This actually is God disposing these details to draw our attention to similarities, even though they're different.
A
So the Ark had been in the hill country for three months. That's right. And Mary is going to spend three months with her cousin Elizabeth. David is going to have the Ark brought back to Jerusalem. And upon encountering the Ark, he's going to dance with joy before the Ark.
B
That's right.
A
And he's going to say the line, where is it. We will find? But he's going to say, how is it that the Ark of my Lord.
B
Oh, that's in. That's in verse nine.
A
That's in verse nine.
B
Second Samuel, six, nine.
A
And David was afraid of the Lord that day. And he said, how can the ark of the Lord come to me? And then as we jump forward to Mary visiting Elizabeth, we're going to see the encounter between the two of them. And we're going to see John the Baptist dance or jump or leap with joy in the womb of Elizabeth. And then Elizabeth says that incredible line to our. To the Blessed Mother, blessed are you. Where is it? There it is. 43. And why is this granted to me that the Mother of my Lord should come to me? So we just see. I mean, there's a ton of parallels here. And you can even see that Luke.
B
You even missed two.
A
What about what was the last?
B
Okay, so one of them is that David arose and went, and then Mary arose and went with hasten to the hill country. And the other one is that as the Ark is being brought into Jerusalem, there are these loud cries, Right? They're shouting. And in the Greek, you have a nice match in the language here. Between the cries as the ark is being. The cries of joy as the ark is being brought in. And then verse 42, Mary. Yeah, sorry, Elizabeth. Exclaiming with a loud cry to Mary.
A
Right.
B
So there's what? There's like five of them.
A
It's incredible. And so, I mean, I think that we can look at Luke here as a gospel writer, that he has this in the back of his mind, and he's inspired by the Holy Spirit intentionally presenting this visitation of Mary with the Christ child in her womb as a kind of retelling here of 2 Samuel 6.
B
I think. That's right. And the key to it actually comes a little bit earlier in Luke 1, when Mary has asked Gabriel, you know, how's this gonna happen? How am I gonna have this Messiah child since I'm a virgin? I don't know, a man. And Gabriel says to her, the Holy Spirit will come upon you in the power of the most High, who will overshadow you. And that language of being overshadowed by the divine presence is actually drawn from the Greek version of Exodus, chapter 40, when Moses has constructed the tabernacle, including the ark, and God's presence comes down. So the picture that we see being presented here is of Mary as the ark of the new covenant.
A
The new ark.
B
She's the new. She's the place where. Where in this previously unimaginable way, God's holy presence has come to dwell on earth. Right. Just as in the Ark, God dwelt in a special way among his people, Israel. Now, in Mary, God has come to dwell with his people, not only with Israel, but eventually with all of us.
A
And you can even think about when you get more specifically about the contents of the ark. In the old covenant was the rod of Aaron, the Ten Commandments, and the Manna. And then we see Jesus as the bread of life. He's the giver of the new law, and he is the new high priest. And so all of these things are coming together. Thank you. I already have the degree, but also, well done.
B
Well, you know, boy, I don't even think we're have time to talk about everything that we kind of hope to, but you might still be wondering, okay, well, what does it have to do with the assumption?
A
What is it?
B
And this is one of those things that, you know, we're the beneficiaries of centuries of Christians who pondered these texts, who've prayed them, who sought to let their lives be formed by them. And one of the connections that they began to make was to a psalm, to Psalm 132, which actually refers to this event we just saw in second Samuel six, and David bringing the Ark to Jerusalem. And the whole thing is really beautiful to ponder and to pray through, but I just want to look for a minute at verse eight, Psalm 132. Eight says, Arise, O Lord, and go to your resting place. Or the Hebrew really just says, to your rest. Okay. You and the ark of your might. Now, in one way, at a kind of historical level, at the literal level.
A
Right.
B
Of course, this is about the story that we were just looking at in 2 Samuel 6. But as Christians prayed about this and recognized that Jesus fulfills all the Scriptures, they said, well, wait a minute. This word for arise here, it's actually the same word, one of the words that the New Testament frequently uses to talk about our Lord's resurrection. Right. So maybe this is about more than just David and the ark. What about the new David and the new Ark? And so we have here in that first line, arise, O Lord, and go to your resting place. This is what we see fulfilled in our Lord's resurrection and ascension. Right. The Lord rises and then goes to his rest. It's such a rich word in Hebrew, too. Yeah.
A
I was gonna say, you just think of the creation account.
B
Yeah. It's the idea of Sabbath, the heavenly rest of the Sabbath. This is what Jesus has entered into on our behalf, going before us into heaven. But then it says, you and the ark of your might.
A
Yep.
B
Right. And so we see this fulfilled in Our Lady's Assumption.
A
And you can just see the importance of some of this typology where it's like understanding that Mary is being presented as the new ark is not just some kind of anecdotal, fun little Bible quiz. It's like, no, no, no. Then we can look and we can see there's prophecy in the Old Testament that tells us about things that are to come. And then we see this in relation with Christ and the. With his mother.
B
That's right. Yeah. And then you might think, well, okay, that's really neat for her. But what does that have to do with me? What does that mean? And, boy, I wish we had a little more time to go into some other texts on this and stuff, but, you know, to kind of keep it brief. It has everything to do with us. Right. Because Mary's blessedness, her privilege of being the ark, of being in this unique way, the dwelling place of Christ is not something that's only for her alone. Think about what Jesus said to her when she and some of his relatives came to See him in Capernaum. Yeah, right. They said, your mother and your brothers are outside. They want to see you.
A
Who is my brother and my brother.
B
Right. Those who hear the word of God and do it. And so we're invited into that, into that blessedness as well.
A
And then, I mean, I think you're right that we probably don't have enough time to go into the text, but when we're talking about Christ's resurrection here and then there's some language in the New Testament about him being the first fruits, and then how can we kind of understand Mary in relation to Christ's resurrection, our resurrection, where she fits in all this?
B
Okay, yeah, I mean, I think you're talking about 1 Corinthians 15, which is actually the second reading for the Feast of the Assumption, talks about Christ being the first fruits. And then at the end when Christ has put, when God has put all of his enemies under Christ's feet, that the rest of us will rise. And you think, well, what about Mary? And the point is with Mary, in a unique way, she's already this all holy ark, right? The ark was to be gilded with gold. There was be no impurity in it. And as that special dwelling place for God, she already participated in that. And so it's fitting that she would already participate in the resurrection. Now, I don't know about you, Taylor, but I am not an all pure ark. But this is actually the kind of point I was getting at is that the blessedness of being the ark, of being a dwelling place for God is what every Christian is called to.
A
Yes, that's right.
B
And it's what we already participate in by grace because of our faith, because of our baptism, because of our participation in the sacraments. And so, you know, when we pray the rosary and we contemplate the Assumption of Mary, right, and the all holy Ark of God that has risen with her Lord to share in his rest, what we're looking at is what we are all called to, right? And so we can pray to our Lord for the grace to be pure, to be like Mary. We can pray to our lady for her to help us, for her to pray for us and for her to invite us into that blessedness that the Lord gave her.
A
Yeah. And we just see that, you know, the great joy of the resurrection is that Christ has defeated death. And then we look to Mary's Assumption and we say that in her he's defeated death and has raised up her body, which is what the hope is for all of us. And that that can be a great source of hope for us that, well, Christ has defeated death. We see Mary participate this in a preeminent way for what all of our hope is. And so we can look to her and say, like, yes, she was assumed. She was taken up not by her own power, she was taken up by the power of Christ. And so, too, that's the exact same hope that we have. She just goes before us. And it makes me think of the language of the Second Vatican Council where Mary advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and that we were supposed to follow her in this pilgrimage of faith, and that she's the exemplar of the church. And so we just look at her, and it's almost better off, I think, to have a kind of stance, not so much of, well, why did she get this? And why this and why this? It's like, no, no, let us look to her and be like, that's what Christ promised all of us. And she's. Who can help us get there? She can help us. She can intercede for us so that we may be without stain, so that we may be assumed, you know, brought up body and soul into heaven one day. And she is kind of the. The image of hope, I think, of the power of God's grace because Christ by, you know, through a whole different theology of who he is and his person was ascended into heaven and defeated death. But Mary then is brought with him, and that we hope the same thing for us.
B
Well said.
A
Yes. Do you have any parting comments of just how can we pray this devotion a little bit better or anything for the viewers?
B
No. I mean, no, I think that, you know, everything that we've said really gives. I mean, it makes me excited to go and pray this mystery, honestly.
A
Yeah, no, it is. So thank you so much for joining us. We pray that these conversations will deepen your devotion to the rosary, will deepen your. Your devotion to Our lady and bring you closer to Christ. Thank you so much for joining us. We have one more to go. Next week, you will hear from myself and Dr. Liz Klein on the coronation of the Blessed Virgin Mary. Thank you so much, and God bless.
Podcast: Catholic Bible Study (Augustine Institute)
Episode Date: December 20, 2025
Topic: The Assumption of Mary
In this fourth installment of the five-part series on the Glorious Mysteries of the Rosary, hosts Taylor Kemp and Dr. John Seehorn explore the mystery of the Assumption of Mary. They examine the Catholic dogma of Mary's Assumption—her bodily taking up into heaven—drawing out its scriptural foundations through typological connections and its significance for the faithful today. The discussion is both scholarly and practical, aiming to deepen devotion and theological understanding.
Defining the Dogma
"The important thing for our faith is to know that Mary already shares perfectly body and soul in the resurrected life of Jesus in heaven."
— Dr. Seehorn (00:21)
Passive vs. Active: Mary's Assumption vs. Jesus' Ascension
"The key difference is that in Jesus’s resurrection and ascension, it is his own conquest of death. In Our Lady, what we see is her participation in Jesus's victory over death."
— Dr. Seehorn (01:51)
Absence of Explicit Scriptural Reference
What Is Typology?
“Typology is a way of reading the Bible using your fingers. Because you got to be able to, like, stick your finger in one part of the Bible and be ready to look back and forth…”
— Dr. Seehorn (05:36)
The Ark of the Covenant as a Type of Mary
The appointed Gospel reading for the Assumption is the Visitation (Luke 1:39–56), not the moment of the Assumption itself.
Parallels between the Visitation and 2 Samuel 6 (David bringing the Ark to Jerusalem) are highlighted:
Luke intentionally presents Mary as the new Ark of the Covenant—she carries the presence of God in her womb.
Key Quote:
“The picture that we see being presented here is of Mary as the ark of the new covenant… She’s the place where–in this previously unimaginable way–God’s holy presence has come to dwell on earth.”
— Dr. Seehorn (10:41)
The original Ark contains the rod of Aaron (priesthood), the Ten Commandments (law), and manna (bread from heaven); Mary bears Christ, the true priest, lawgiver, and bread of life.
“What about the new David and the new Ark?”
— Dr. Seehorn (12:26)
Mary's Privilege and Our Destiny
“The blessedness of being the ark, of being a dwelling place for God is what every Christian is called to. And it’s what we already participate in by grace because of our faith, because of our baptism, because of our participation in the sacraments.”
— Dr. Seehorn (15:41)
Mary as Exemplar and Mother
Her Assumption is a sign of hope, intercession, and encouragement for Christians. She goes before us and prays for us to share in Christ’s victory.
The Second Vatican Council describes Mary as advancing ahead in the “pilgrimage of faith”—she is the sign and model for the Church.
Concluding Quote:
“Let us look to her and be like, that's what Christ promised all of us. And she's… who can help us get there? She can help us. She can intercede for us so that we may be without stain, so that we may be assumed, you know, brought up body and soul into heaven one day.”
— Taylor Kemp (17:32)
| Time | Segment Topic | |-------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:00 | Opening and introduction to the Assumption | | 00:21 | Definition and clarification of the dogma | | 01:43 | Distinction between Assumption and Ascension | | 03:19 | Introduction to typology and scriptural approaches | | 05:36 | Typology method and example of Visitation–Ark of the Covenant parallels | | 08:08 | Breakdown of the parallels between 2 Samuel 6 and Luke 1 | | 10:41 | Theological implications of Mary as Ark of the New Covenant | | 11:22 | Deepening typology—contents of the Ark and Christological parallels | | 12:26 | Psalm 132:8 and the Old Testament’s prophetic resonance | | 13:44 | Relevance of Mary’s Assumption for Christian life | | 14:53 | 1 Corinthians 15, Mary as participant in Christ's Resurrection | | 16:15 | The Assumption as a source of hope and imitation | | 17:32 | Mary as Exemplar; closing reflections |
On the Assumption’s Core Meaning:
“Mary already shares perfectly body and soul in the resurrected life of Jesus in heaven.”
(Dr. Seehorn, 00:21)
On Typology:
"Typology is a way of reading the Bible using your fingers...Because sacred Scripture is inspired by a single divine author who's unfolding a single really beautiful plan of salvation."
(Dr. Seehorn, 05:36)
On Mary as the New Ark:
"She’s the place where—in this previously unimaginable way—God’s holy presence has come to dwell on earth."
(Dr. Seehorn, 10:41)
On Mary’s Privilege and Our Hope:
"It’s what we already participate in by grace...And so, when we pray the rosary and we contemplate the Assumption of Mary...what we're looking at is what we are all called to."
(Dr. Seehorn, 15:41)
On Imitation and Intercession:
“Let us look to her and be like, that's what Christ promised all of us. And she's...who can help us get there?...so that we may be assumed, you know, brought up body and soul into heaven one day.”
(Taylor Kemp, 17:32)
The episode balances intellectual depth with relatable warmth, aiming to demystify Catholic teaching for both scholars and seekers. The hosts’ passion for the faith is evident, and tie-ins with personal conversion stories make the discussion accessible.
This episode offers a comprehensive, scripture-rooted exploration of the Assumption as both a mystery of faith and a profound source of hope. Listeners will leave with a clearer understanding of the Assumption’s biblical background, a new appreciation for Mary’s place in salvation history, and encouragement to see her as both exemplar and intercessor in their own journey toward resurrection.