A (2:39)

Right?

B (2:39)

Touch me.

A (2:40)

And here's. Give me some fish.

B (2:41)

Give me some fish. I'm hungry. Right. You know, if, you know, ghost eats food, it can go right through him, I guess, or something like that. Right.

A (2:49)

That's how we know what Jesus favorite food was. Right? It was brunch. He was cooking fish for the apostles in John 21 on the shore.

B (2:55)

Excellent. Yes, I like brunch. No wonder Jesus. No wonder I like Jesus so much. No. So he does show them his hands and his feet. And we see it's not just a bodily resurrection. It's the same body. We should make that point too. It's the same body that was crucified. So he has the wounds on his hands and his feet that Thomas wants to put his fingers in.

A (3:16)

So an opposition that comes. A question that comes to mind is, but how about the road to Emmaus? The disciples don't recognize him. He kind of looks like them, but he doesn't.

B (3:24)

Right. And I would like to come back to that in a second. But what's fascinating about this is Jesus's resurrected body is not just an ordinary human body. It's been glorified or transformed in some way. So, for example, in that story, not only do they not recognize him, he's like seven miles down the road from Jerusalem. Then he's in the upper room. His resurrected body transcends the limits of space and time.

A (3:51)

Sure, he's super fast. He can walk through walls.

B (3:54)

That's also important because they're. They're locked in the upper room and Jesus stands before them. All of these details show us that what happens with Jesus's resurrection is not just resuscitation. It's a glorification. It's a transformation. So that he could somehow, we don't know exactly how, hide his identity from. From people and then reveal his identity, which is really, you know, not. It's. It shows us this is not an ordinary body. Right. It's not a. The kind of body that we have. Why should we believe this? I think, is a really important question.

A (4:31)

Right. Because we don't see. Was anybody there?

B (4:34)

Right, Right.

A (4:35)

Because when you get to the Gospels and you read all four gospel accounts, what is clear is the Tomb's empty.

B (4:40)

That's right.

A (4:41)

And then angels and earthquake. And when the order of those happened, that's, you know, that can. We can discuss that. But was anybody there to see this? How do we know it actually happened?

B (4:49)

Right. And so there have been people who've tried to, you know, come up with different explanations of the Resurrection. One explanation is to swoon theory, this idea that Jesus didn't really die, you know, but he woke up in the tomb and he walked back into the scene.

A (5:03)

So he was really severely beaten, passed out, unconscious. They put him in the tomb and whoops, he woke up three days later.

B (5:09)

Right. This is so implausible because the Romans were expert executioners. Right. In fact, many people died before they even got to the cross because the scourging was so brutal. Right.

A (5:19)

So did they have somebody that was actually in charge, the exactor mortis or something like the person that was in charge to make sure the person didn't die on the way?

B (5:26)

Yeah.

A (5:26)

And then that person was actually dead when they.

B (5:28)

I'd want to look at all the sources and see if they were applicable to the first century in Jerusalem, because I looked at the exact tradition there. But suffice it to say it's implausible that they would have mistook Jesus as dead and he hadn't really died.

A (5:43)

And what did they even say? Jesus doesn't come back with a bruised body would be a response to this as well.

B (5:49)

Right. This remarkable. One of the things that really stands out is when the disciples tell the story of the Resurrection, we read that they didn't recognize Jesus. Now this is really telling, because if you're going to make up a story, let's pretend for a second. Skeptics are right. The whole story is a fraud. They just made it up. Okay. It wouldn't look like this. Right. If you're going to make up the story of the resurrection, you don't say, yeah, I really saw him. He really rose from dead. Didn't look anything like Jesus. I didn't even recognize him. But I'm sure it was Jesus. Right? Like, if I wanted to convince you I saw Elvis and Elvis, Elvis is alive, I wouldn't say, yeah, I was in Tennessee with Graceland and I saw this guy. Didn't look anything like Elvis, but I didn't even think.

A (6:30)

But I'm sure. Well, and then even to go back to that, they didn't make this up, is everyone's named Mary. Why would you name everyone the same name? Right. Is that very creative?

B (6:40)

Right. Or that the first witnesses are women to begin with, because Josephus, first century Jewish historian, tells us that normally testimony wasn't taken from women. And we know that in some cases this could happen. But if you're going to make up a story of the resurrection, you, you wouldn't make the first witnesses women in the ancient world.

A (6:56)

And even someone like Mary Magdalene, who probably, you know, who doesn't have a great history, right?

B (7:00)

So it doesn't say. But the thing that really stands out to me is Jesus's prediction of the sign of Jonah. In Matthew 12, Jesus says, no sign will be given to this generation except the sign of Jonah. Just as Jonah spent three days and three nights in the belly of a whale, so will the Son of Man. And then he talks about the Son of Man will spend three days and three nights in the earth, right? He'll rise on the third day. And. But then he also points out that the men of Nineveh who repented at the preaching of Jonah will arise and condemn this generation. So part of the sign of Jonah isn't just that Jonah rose from the dead or that he came out of the fish after three days, it's that the Ninevites repented. That's a crucial detail because no one would have expected the Babylonians or the Assyrians, I guess, in this case to believe in the God of Israel. Jesus identifies himself as a new Jonah. That means not just will he rise from the dead, but Gentiles are going to repent and come to believe in the God of Israel. I don't think we fully realize how strange that would have sounded. In the ancient world, every people had their own God, right? Or their own gods, plural. And you didn't worship another nation's gods. It just didn't happen. I had a guy at the house recently who was doing some work for us, and he asked me, you know what I do? And I explained professor of Scripture. And he said, oh, that's really interesting. So you think Christianity is the true religion? Yeah, I do. And he said, now why do you think that is? Right? And I said, well, I think the best evidence is that all over the world you have people who believe in the God of Israel. You know, even Islam, the church fathers and doctors, like Thomas Aquinas, said that Islam started as a Christian heresy. How do all these people from all over the world come to believe in the God of Israel? I said to the plumber, I said, do you know any Hittites? Said, no, I don't know any. I said, do you know any Egyptians? Maybe I know Some people that said, do they worship Horus or APIs or any of those ancient gods? No. Do you know any Philistines or maybe Assyrians? I think I know Assyrian guys. Oh, have Babylonians said, I think I do. Do they worship Marduk? Oh, no, they don't worship Marduk. All these gods have been forgotten. But people all over the world. Here we are sitting in Denver, halfway around the world from where Jesus rose from the dead and joined by people all over the world who believe in the God of Israel. That would have taken a miracle. And so for Ambrose and for other church fathers, the best witness of the resurrection was that in fact the Gentiles had repented and that Jonah had not just risen from the dead, but that the goyim, the nations, had turned from their ways and embraced the God of Israel. I think that's.

A (9:55)

Oh, that's beautiful. No, that's a very powerful testimony. And I think you back to the Jonah story is that Jonah complains after they convert to worship the God of Israel that they return that God didn't wipe them out. And the temptation for us is that we, we don't want to be in that lot of. When we see the Gentiles, we want the nations to repent. We want people, hardened sinners, to repent and to turn to the God of Israel.

B (10:16)

That's right. And ultimately, at the end of the day, the resurrection is the basis of our hope in the Christian life. St. Paul explains in Romans. Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ were baptized into his death. Therefore we who have been buried with him by baptism and death, so that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too may walk in the newness of life. Why is it possible for us to break from a life of sin? Why is it possible for us to overcome those addictions that seem just to have a grip on us? It's because of the power of the resurrection. So how is it that there can be people like Mother Teresa? What explains a person like Mother Teresa? It's the resurrection of Jesus Christ. And so the best witness for the resurrection is in fact the lives of the saints and in fact the church all over the world where we have believers whose lives have been transformed by Christ.

A (11:10)

That's beautiful. Well, now, one of the theories that you know. So I'm reading through the gospels for the Easter season, and I see at the end of Matthew's Gospel, it says that the soldiers say that the tomb is empty. They go and they get Paid a certain amount of money.

B (11:24)

Right.

A (11:25)

To spread the rumor that the disciples had sold the body.

B (11:28)

Right.

A (11:28)

And that rumor is still persisting because Matthew writes it down.

B (11:31)

Right.

A (11:31)

What would you say to someone who says, yeah, how do we know the disciples didn't seal the body?

B (11:35)

Well, I'd say two things. First of all, it's striking that none of the disciples actually were killed with Jesus. That's a really significant detail. If Jesus is crucified as king of the Jews, that's a seditious charge. You would expect that there'd be other people who were being led astray. Where are all the people he's crucified with? There's no evidence any of the other disciples were crucified, but Jesus, they all fled in terror. Right? So how all of a sudden did they go from cowering in fear and deserting Jesus to mustering up the courage to sneak out at night and risk being arrested for stealing the body and trying to pull off a fraud like this that just. It just doesn't.

A (12:16)

Doesn't match with human nature.

B (12:18)

Doesn't match with human nature. Second thing we'd say is we have the written testimony of, for example, people like Paul who says, I saw the risen Lord, and he's a very credible witness because he ended up giving his life for this. He didn't think that this was, you know, something he might be right or wrong about. This wasn't insignificant for him. This was huge. Right. And Paul tells us in First Corinthians 15 that there are 500 others that Jesus appeared to basically says. He says some of them are still alive. He's essentially saying, go and ask him if you don't believe me. Right. So those are two very strong pieces of evidence in favor of the resurrection. Again, the strongest piece is that you have a person like Paul who goes from a murderer to giving his life for Christ and changing his life. So the power of the resurrection is especially seen in. In our life of faith. One last thing I'd just like to say, you know, as we're meditating on this mystery, so if you're at home, you know, you're praying the rosary, how do you do that? You know, what do you do for 10 Hail Marys? You know, one thing that might be helpful is you can, of course, think about the details of the Gospels and reflect on, you know, they wouldn't have made that up. Right. Like, the disciples doubted. That's at the end of Matthew's gospel. Some doubted, yeah. Let me convince you. I really saw Jesus. Yeah, I doubted at the time, but now I'm sure you wouldn't make up a deal like detail like that. But one thing that I like to do when I pray the rosary is I break up my rosary into four, three and three. So I think about the four cardinal virtues. Justice, prudence, temperance, fortitude. And I like to think, how does Jesus embody each one of those four cardinal virtues? So, you know, you can really spend a lot of time thinking how is the resurrection about justice? Jesus gave his life, he was faithful. God rose from the dead. Think a lot about that. You can think of the four cardinal virtues that way. Then I like to think about faith, hope, and love. And how does the resurrection in particular inspire my faith? How does it relate to hope? What will happen to me at the end of time? How does it inspire me to love? And then finally, I like to think about how in each mystery we see the work of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit. So what is the Father doing in the Resurrection? What is the Holy Spirit doing in the Resurrection? You know, you break up the rosary in the 4, 3 and 3, and each decade is going to go flying by it. Normally I don't get by. I don't get past justice and fortitude or justice and prudence. I'm thinking so much about why was it prudent for Jesus to wait three days? Right. Yeah.

A (14:44)

Yeah. So that's a great pro tip. Do you do it for each of the mysteries or just.

B (14:48)

That's how I just. And then if I don't have a rosary on me, I always know which mystery or Chael Mary I'm on because I can't count on my fingers. I just can't seem to pull that off. I always get confused. So. But if I think about it that way, I remember which Hail Mary I'm on.

A (15:01)

No, that's great. That's a great hack. And that's one of the things I want. Yeah. How do we meditate on this mystery now if in just a couple minutes that we have remaining for someone who wants to read scripture as preparation for praying this mystery?

B (15:16)

Right.

A (15:17)

Sometimes the details seem confusing. And some of the gospels, they seemingly contradict. I know they don't contradict. What would be your advice to someone trying to put those resurrection appearances together?

B (15:27)

Yeah, I mean, the thing that I just point out is the Gospel writers don't seem to feel like they have to tell us everything in chronological order. You read the various scenes in Jesus's life and for example, the anointing of Jesus by a woman happens early in Luke's Gospel happens later in. In the other Gospels. The Gospels are written to give us events, to tell us about things that really happened. But ancient writers didn't feel like they had to tell them in the exact secrets that they occurred. So if you're trying to piece together the Gospel, the Sunday narrative, John Wenham is a scholar, wrote a book called the Easter Enigma, and he goes through every single story and he actually coordinates how everyone fits together. It's fascinating. I don't know that the Gospel writers thought that they had to do it that way. Right. So I don't know that that should disturb us in our faith at all. It's that that's just not the way history was written back then. So.

A (16:23)

No, that's good. One of the things that when the. In the luminous mysteries, we were able to go to the Old Testament. So thank you for taking us back.

B (16:29)

Sure.

A (16:30)

To the Old Testament. One of the things that stands out to me as I reread these Gospel accounts is that there's not a lot of Old Testament, not a lot of. Not a lot of Old Testament references. While in Matthew's Gospel, he's like, and this was to fulfill. This, this was to fulfill. And all of sudden, it's almost. I'm just going to tell you the facts, the bare facts that he actually, the tomb was empty, people saw him alive again, and they're going out and spreading this good news.

B (16:52)

And in some ways, what this shows us is that while Jesus does fulfill the Old Testament, he transcends Old Testament hopes as well. There's no passage that says that the Messiah will rise from the dead on the third day. There are passages in Hosea that talk about how God will restore his people after three days or after two days, whatever, but. But not exactly. So Jesus fulfills our hopes, but he also exceeds them.

A (17:17)

That's wonderful. What would you say to someone who. So we have this. Christ has taken away this fear of death because he's conquered death.

B (17:25)

Yes.

A (17:26)

Do you have any words of advice? Because fear is such a strong force in our life, but Christ got rid of that. The thing that we were most afraid of, that we should be most afraid of, is death. And that being the end of the story now it's the doorway. It's the right.

B (17:39)

So what Jesus does is he turns death from a curse into a gift. So you can see death as something that's going to happen to you inevitably, and your life is taken from you. But Jesus's life isn't so much taken as it's given so what he teaches us is to not look at death with fear, but to look at death as an opportunity by which we can demonstrate our love for God and giving ourselves away totally to him, confident that he will raise us just like he raised his son, Jesus.

A (18:10)

Oh, thank you, Michael. Thank you for joining us on this first of five episodes where we're going to go through each of the glorious mysteries of our faith. And today we talked about the resurrection, the crowning truth of our faith. Please join us next time as we talk about the ascension. Thank you for joining us. And God bless.