B (4:09)

Can I just say one thing?

A (4:09)

Yeah, please. Yeah. I was going to say it's interesting.

B (4:12)

You just highlighted that he is. That Peter uses the language son of the living God. Okay, that's interesting because not only is that a phrase that's used in various Old Testament texts, it also appears later in the Gospel of Matthew. So when Jesus is on trial, Caiaphas puts the question to him at the climactic moment of the trial that ends up getting Jesus handed over to the Romans. Caiaphas looks at Jesus and says, I adjure you by the living God. Tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God. That is virtually the same thing that you see in Matthew 16. With Peter's confession, Peter affirms what Caiaphas is questioning Jesus about. And if Peter is being presented as a priestly figure. It's really interesting that you have Peter saying, you are the Christ, the son of the living God. And Caiaphas going, are you I jury by the living God? Are you the Christ, the son of God? Very, very interesting parallel there.

A (5:25)

That's great.

B (5:25)

That's a great parallel. Anyway, I think it's fascinating. So if we go on to Matthew 16:21, now that Jesus has given Peter the keys, now that Jesus has identified, in effect, who his successor would be. Right. Who his vicar would be, Jesus begins to announce his coming death. So Jesus doesn't begin to give us his passion predictions in the Gospel of Matthew until he's established Peter with authority. I think that's significant.

A (6:01)

Absolutely.

B (6:02)

So we go on and we read from that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes and to be killed and on the third day be raised. And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, far be it from you, Lord. Far be it from you, Lord. This should never happen to you. So it's really interesting, right, that right after Peter acknowledges the truth about who Jesus is, and Jesus affirms Peter in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus begins to announce his passion. And Peter, no, no, no, no, no, that's not going to happen. Trust me, I'm the rock. Whatever I bind on earth is bound in heaven. Right. Well, this is not going to happen. And I think this is a really important moment for us to reflect on, a real important passage for us to reflect on that. Yes, Peter and his successors have the authority to bind and loose, but that authority cannot override the will of the Lord, cannot overturn God's will.

A (7:24)

And it doesn't make them perfect. I mean, because look, the point here is that Peter is the first pope and he's just been given this papal office, and now he's going to stumble right out of the gates. So that doesn't mean that popes aren't popes and that the papacy is invalid. It just means that we have to have a perspective on the popes like Peter who are faithful and love Christ, but also they're human and they make mistakes. We'll see Peter stumble even after the resurrection in a big way with the controversy in Jerusalem, when people from Jerusalem come up to Antioch and Gentiles and he really backs off of the prophecy that God had given him.

B (8:04)

Right. And we've had popes that didn't just make mistakes. I mean, were Horrendous sinners, too. So, you know, here, what we're going to see, though, is something really important, and that is that Peter didn't expect that the Messiah would have to suffer. Now you wonder, had Jesus told Peter up front, all right, now I'm going to end up dying here.

A (8:29)

Would Peter have followed him from the.

B (8:31)

Beginning, have followed him from the beginning? Would Peter have recognized that Jesus was the Messiah? I don't know. I think the point is that first Jesus leads Peter to faith, and then once he's been able to recognize that Jesus is in fact the Messiah, Jesus then begins to reveal that he's the Messiah, but not in the way Peter expects.

A (8:54)

And I love Jesus response. I think it's strong, but it's strong. But he turned and said to Peter, get behind me. So in other words, Jesus is saying, peter, you got a great new office, but remember, you're following me. And so we have to follow our Lord. And that's so important. And so he's reminding him, you know, And Mark's narrative, I can't remember the Greek here in Matthew, but in Mark's narrative, it's the same phrase for the calling of Peter apisomu. You know, get behind me. Follow. Follow in line. Behind me is a way you can read that. And so it's not like, get behind me or, you know, get away. It's fall behind me so that you can follow me.

B (9:41)

Right?

A (9:41)

And then he says, you know, you Satan. Right? Because Satan is the adversary.

B (9:48)

Right?

A (9:48)

And so Peter is standing against Jesus path of suffering.

B (9:54)

Right?

A (9:54)

And that's exactly what the devil wants to do.

B (9:56)

Right? And we got to understand that Jesus isn't saying that Peter is literally Satan. Okay? Peter is playing the role of the Satan. So in Hebrew, the term Satan literally means accuser. And it's the person in a courtroom who's your adversary, all right? The person who wants to get you convicted. And so in this passage, Peter is playing the role of Jesus adversary. He is preventing Jesus from fulfilling his mission, and that's why he calls him Satan. He's not saying, okay, Peter, you actually literally are Satan. No, but he's in the role of the adversary. And I like what he says next, you are a. Well, the ESV here has hindrance. A better, I think, rendering of this would be a stumbling stone, right? The Greek word skandalon. Literally a stumbling stone. That's not a coincidence. Right? What is he just called Peter? Rock. Right. So you are rock. And on this rock, I'll build my church. Okay, but now you're the kind of rock that I trip over. Now. You're the kind of stone that I'd trip over. Don't be that, Peter. Right, Right. So it is very significant, I think, that that word is used there for you are not setting your mind on things of God, but on things of men.

A (11:12)

Right. And that what causes scandal. And there's the formula. Right. When we focus on the worldly way of thinking versus the spiritual divine way of thinking.

B (11:22)

Yep. Now, I just want to highlight here that Jesus Passion prediction, he begins to show his disciples to that he will suffer many things from the elders and the chief priests and be killed and on the third day rise again. And we're going to see these Passion predictions again. For example, in Matthew 17, the son of man is about to be delivered into the hands of men and they will kill him. We can say a lot about these passages. In Matthew 16, Peter is identified Jesus as the Son of Jesus. Says, who do people say the Son of Man is? And it's important that we have that language of Son of Man here. In Jesus's Passion predictions, it's not a coincidence. Why does Jesus refer to himself as the Son of Man? We've already talked about this. It goes back to Daniel 7. In Daniel 7, there's a figure who is described as one like a son of man, which is interesting because he is a Son of man, but he's more than a Son of man. Right. And in Daniel 7, we go on to read that this, this figure receives kingdom and power. He's basically described in royal terms. But the larger context of this prophecy is significant. So the Son of Man comes after we've read about four beasts that come out of the sea. And so Daniel seen these beasts, he's seen the Son of Man figure, and he goes to one of the angels and he says, what, Gibbs, what is this all about? What does this mean? And the angel explains to him, these four great beasts are four kings who will arise out of the earth. But the saints of the Most High shall receive the kingdom and possess the kingdom forever. Forever and ever. Now, notice in the vision it was the Son of Man who received the kingdom. But the angel says it's about the saints who receive the kingdom. Now this sets up a famous debate in biblical scholarship. How do we interpret the Son of man in Daniel 7? Some people say the Son of Man is just a symbol of the saints because the four beasts represent four kings. And so the Son of and four kingdoms. We'll see. And the Son of Man seems to represent the Saints who received the kingdom. Jesus is the Son of Man. But what we go on to read about in Daniel 7 is the fact that the saints will suffer. So really important part of the vision, the angel goes on to describe how the fourth beast is a fourth kingdom in Daniel 7, 23. And then it goes on to say, he shall speak words against the Most High and shall wear out the saints of the Most High. Wear them out by persecution, right? And it goes on to say that they will be given into his hand for a time, for two times and a half a time. So about three times, right? A time, two times and a half a time after three times, right. And so it's not a coincidence that when Jesus describes his suffering, for example, in Daniel 7, in Matthew 17, he says, the Son of Man is about to be delivered into the hands, just like in Daniel 7, the saints are given into the hands of men, Jesus says, and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day, much like what we see about the saints in Daniel 7. So Jesus is the Son of man. And who is the Son of Man? He represents the saints who suffer. If you want to belong to the Son of Man, you're going to have to suffer.

A (14:59)

That's so important, Michael. And I think it's also, don't you think, why Jesus, after he makes his own personal passion prediction that Peter rebukes him for Jesus, then continues on and says, okay, I gave you bad news. You know, I'm going to go to Jerusalem, I'm going to suffer and die. But here's the good news. You're going to join me eventually, right? Because if anyone in verse 20. What is that, verse 24. If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself, take up his cross and follow me. And so Jesus is saying, look, I'm not just simply going to die as the substitute for you, I'm going to die as the leader of you. And so if we're going to be Christian, we're going to have to become cruciform.

B (15:40)

That's right.

A (15:40)

Right.

B (15:41)

That's right. And that's the whole point. And so Jesus says, if you're going to come after me, you have to deny yourself, take up your cross, follow me. And then one of my favorite lines in all of the Gospels, for whoever would save his life will lose it. But whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. The way that we find fulfillment is in giving ourselves away, because that's what persons do. How do we know that? Well, want to look real deep. We look into the Trinity. What do the three persons of the Trinity do? The Father gives himself to the Son. The Son gives himself to the Father in love. And the love that they share is the Holy Spirit. And so what Jesus does on the cross on Calvary simply makes manifest what God has been doing for all eternity. Right. Persons find themselves in giving themselves away.

A (16:32)

I love that you mention the Trinity because that sets us up beautifully for the next scene in chapter 17, the transfiguration.

B (16:38)

Yes. Before we do that, one quick thing. Notice the Son of Man language all throughout all of this. Right. For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels. He will repay each person according to what he has done. And then there are some people standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom. And that leads us to a vision where some people see. See the Son of Man coming in the kingdom.

A (16:59)

Yep, exactly. So, and we're going to see. And I like that you mentioned Daniel chapter seven, because it talks about one like a Son of man, the Beni Adam, one like the Son of Man, taken up into glory and receiving glory and authority. And here we're going to get a glimpse of Jesus, glory that he possesses as the Son of Man. So after six days, Jesus took with him Peter. So there's Peter first and foremost, especially after his profession, and James and John, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And of course, the tradition is it's Mount Tabor, which is a beautiful place in the Holy Land, that I love to go up there. To me, it's a very. There's just something about praying up there. It's beautiful. It's a mountain that stands apart, and it has this incredible view over the Jezreel Valley. And you go up Mount Tabor, and there's just a calm and a peace and. And the Franciscans have this beautiful church that was built by Antonio Barluzzi, an imitation of the crusader church that was there, and the gardens there, and the ruins from this old crusader monastery. It's just a beautiful place to pray. And I remember taking a good friend of mine, Archbishop Chaput, up there on a pilgrimage. And it was his favorite place in the Holy Land. It really is a special place. And so whenever I think of the Transfiguration, I think of this beautiful place of prayer. It's one of my favorite things to take pilgrims up that mountain and to pray up there and to reflect on the importance of prayer. But now we've got the setting, and then immediately we're told in Matthew in verse 2, and he was transfigured before them and his face shone like the sun and his clothes became white as light. Now what's the significance of that, Michael?

B (18:46)

Well, well, certainly this highlights Jesus glory. And we see, if you look at visions like the one we mentioned in Daniel 7, God's glory is radiant. And there are lots of different passages in the Old Testament that allude to this idea. And of course, Jesus is shining with white light, which also reminds us of Daniel 12. In Daniel 12, there's a description of the future day when God saves his people. The saints will radiate with the glory of God. They'll shine like the sun. And so Jesus is a model for all the saints, so to speak, here as well. So I think in one way this points to his divinity. In another way it points to his identity as the saint par excellence. Right. And behold, there appeared to him, Moses and Elijah talking with him. Now, the standard way this is often explained is that Moses represents the law and Elijah represents the prophets. And so here we see the fulfillment of the law and the prophets. Okay, but I think there's a bit more to it than that. Moses and Elijah are both figures in the Old Testament who seek the face of God. They go up on mountains looking for the face of God. I didn't put all the passages together I should have for people to look at. But you see this in Exodus, you see this in historical books with Elijah, but neither are able to actually see the face of God. They see the backside of God. Or Elijah hears God pass by in a whispering wind. Here they get to see the face of God. So what they longed for.

A (20:28)

Yeah, I think that's so important, Michael. And it's such a beautiful reflection. This is the fulfillment of their longing and of their lives. You know, there's also. Elijah was taken up in the heavily chariot, the tradition that Moses was assumed at least his body after he died. And so you have. Now, of course, that's all based on an assumption.

B (20:47)

Assumption of Moses is the name of a book. It's the name of a book for the people watching. There's a joke there.

A (20:53)

But then the other fascinating thing is with these two, of course, in Deuteronomy, it takes two witnesses to bear testimony. They're giving testimony. They witness to Jesus. And there's just. There's so much to this. But I always think of Moses. You know, he longed to enter the promised land and he never did. And now he's back in the promised land. So again, Moses Great longing to see the face of God which is denied, and then secondly, to enter the promised land. And both those great desires of Moses are finally fulfilled in this moment, which just really makes it a. A very poignant, powerful moment.

B (21:32)

And the scene is reminiscent of Exodus in many ways. So in Exodus 19 through 24, we read the story of how God reveals himself in giving the law to Israel at Sinai. And there are so many parallels. I put together a little chart so.

A (21:49)

Maybe they can point out Moses is in both scenes.

B (21:51)

Moses is in both scenes. In Exodus 24. They go up the mountain on the seventh day. This takes place after six days. So it's the seventh day. And the Lord says, come up with Aaron, Nadab and Abihu. And so Jesus goes up the mountain with three companions.

A (22:11)

And by the way, those are the. It's Aaron and his two sons who are priestly in the leadership of the priest. And that goes back to what you said in the previous chapter about Peter getting the keys and having that priestly element. So there's a nice priestly element to that.

B (22:25)

Oh, there's so much to say about that. But I'm going to have to. I'll never stop talking. There's so much about that. And then Moses goes up on the mountain, and Jesus leads them up on a mountain. And then of course, Moses skin. We read in Exodus 34, the skin of Moses face shone because he had been talking with God, just like Jesus begins to radiate the glory of God. And then we go on in Exodus and we read about how the glory of the Lord settled on Mount Sinai when a cloud overshadows. And so what happens? Well, Peter says to Jesus, lord, it's good for us to be here. If you wish, I'll make three tents for you. One for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah, which is kind of funny. In Mark's Gospel, it says Peter was afraid and he didn't know what he was saying. Matthew doesn't add that detail. But certainly Peter's like, hey, it's a good thing that I'm here, right? It's like, Peter, it's not about you. You know, it's just not about you. But. And then what happens is in story, a bright cloud overshadowed them, just as we saw in the story of the Exodus. And then we hear a voice from the cloud. This is my beloved son. Which reminds us of Jesus role as the new Isaac. Remember, Isaac was the beloved son of Abraham. First verse of the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus Christ, the book of the Genesis of Jesus Christ. The son of David, the son of Abraham, Jesus is going to be the true Isaac, the new Isaac, who sacrificed for sin on a mountain. And then we read, with whom I am well pleased. Listen to him. And of course they're fearful.

A (24:00)

Well, just. Can I stop you there? Because there's so much to unpack.

B (24:03)

There's so much to unpack.

A (24:04)

And I know you know this, but I love that this is my beloved Son with whom I'm well pleased. And that alludes to the prophet isaiah in Isaiah 42:1 and following the first of the four servant songs. So a very important passage that God the Father echoes that he gave to Isaiah. He echoes that passage from Isaiah and then listen to him goes back to Deuteronomy 18, verse 18, where Moses foretells in the Torah that there will be a new Moses and you and Israel should listen to him. And so you get a passage from the prophets, Isaiah and a message from Deuteronomy, the law. So you get the law and the prophets in a double way here again.

B (24:47)

Yeah, that's cool. And we should also point out that this is one of the servant songs in Isaiah. Of course. Famously, Isaiah's fourth servant song describes how the servant will suffer. And so, given the context, Jesus has been announcing that he's going to suffer. The scene of the transfiguration, it doesn't lead Peter to faith. He already has faith. Now it consoles him, right, yes, he's going to suffer. Yes, he's going to be the suffering servant. But look at this. He really is the one that you believe he is. And actually, probably more than you understand. And then, of course, there's this cloud speak. This voice speaks to them out of the cloud. That's what happens at Mount Sinai, when the Lord speaks out of the cloud to the people. The people are terrified. The disciples are terrified. They hear this. They fell on their faces. They're terrified. And I love the next line, Tim. Jesus came and touched them, saying, rise and have no fear. And so, of course, if you were to be in the presence of God, you take your life into your hands. In the Old Testament, this is how Jews understood it. I'm not worthy to hear the voice of God. I'm not worthy to be in the presence of the Lord. And so Jesus comes and touches them. Have no fear. And I have to wonder if part of that is because. Hey, by the way, look at me as it was before. I've been with you all along. You're fine, right? You've been in my presence all this time. So, anyway, so much more could be said about this passage. What other thoughts do you have?

A (26:21)

So rich. I love all the connections you've drawn out for everybody with Mount Sinai. And of course, Mount Sinai was the great revelation of the Torah to Israel. And the Torah, the law, became the sign of Judaism and the focus for the Jews. And now why all these echoes and allusions to Mount Sinai being replayed at Mount Tabor? It's because there's a new Sinai, there's a new revelation, and there's a new law. And that new law is a person, Jesus Christ. And so Jesus will be the center of the new covenant, and he is the new law of the new covenant. And so we as Christians are to be focused on Jesus Christ like the Jews of old were to be focused on the Torah. And so Jesus is the new Torah. And I think ultimately all this is leading us up to see that Jesus isn't simply a new Moses, he is the new Torah, the law of God embodied.

B (27:13)

Excellent. Yep. That, I think is so important. The Torah represents or the Torah is God's revelation to his people. And now what we discover is God is making the fullness of revelation known in the person of Jesus. Do you want to know what the Torah really means? Look to Jesus. Do you want to know what love really means? Look to Jesus. Jesus embodies God's law.

A (27:38)

And, you know, and then they lift up their eyes and they saw no one but Jesus only. And now they're going to come down the mountain and that's going to lead to. There'll be a little bit of chaos down below the mountain, but that happens at Mount Sinai too. So we're going to see the follow up to Mount Sinai with some chaos down below in the camp. But that, you know, we'll get to that next time. That's probably not the best time to start that now.

B (28:05)

Yeah, we're really.

A (28:06)

Yeah, go ahead. Do you want to give one last thought?

B (28:09)

I'll wait till next time. I've got too many thoughts.

A (28:13)

All right, well, you know, I just want to close by. You know, here we see Jesus talk about going to Jerusalem to suffer and die. And then that's followed by Jesus rebuking Peter after Peter says, no, no, you can't suffer and die. Jesus is determined. He knows what it's going to take to do the will of his father. And he tells Peter, get behind me. And oftentimes Jesus has to tell us in the church, get behind me. Oftentimes the church thinks we can navigate the world and we can navigate and Maybe dissolve all the problems and conflicts of the world. We can make it right. That's Peter's temptation. I totally get that. But sometimes we're called simply to bear witness and be faithful to the will of the Father. And sometimes we're called to confront the world with the world's desire to not have the truth and to not see the truth. And that's why Jesus says we have to be willing to deny ourselves and take up our cross to follow Him. In other words, if we don't bear the cross of Jesus Christ, we can't be followers of Jesus Christ. And so as we reflect on that, we want to reflect in our lives. How can I be a better follower of Jesus Christ? What do I need to deny myself of in order to be freed up? To take up his will, that is, to take up the cross and to bring his cross sometimes, not always, but sometimes in confrontation with the world because the world rejects the ways of the Father. But we have to accept the ways of the Father. And so sometimes being a Christian means we're going to have that suffering. And that's exactly what Michael spoke of in Daniel, chapter seven, where God forewarned that those who are going to follow the Son of Man, his Messiah, are oftentimes going to be handed over to the world for suffering. But don't be discouraged by that, because in the end, God will bring justice and vindication to his righteous ones. Let you sit on that passage and hold that hope close to your breast. God bless you and always have hope in Christ.