Catholic Bible Study Podcast Summary
Episode: Matthew 22:41–23:39
Host: Dr. Tim Gray
Guest: Dr. Michael Barber
Date: December 9, 2025
Episode Overview
This episode of the Catholic Bible Study podcast, led by Dr. Tim Gray and Dr. Michael Barber from the Augustine Institute, dives deep into the end of Matthew 22 and the entirety of Matthew 23. The scholars unpack Jesus’ confrontation with the Pharisees about the Messiah’s identity, examine the significance of Psalm 110, analyze Jesus’ critique of Church leaders, and clarify Jesus’ statements about authority and titles such as "father." The aim is to help listeners understand the theological foundation for Jesus’ identity and authority, and to see the continuity between Old and New Testament teachings on leadership, priesthood, and discipleship.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. Jesus Poses a Question: The Messiah and Psalm 110
(Starts at 00:25)
- Context: After a series of questions from religious authorities, Jesus turns the tables and asks the Pharisees about the identity of the Christ (Messiah):
“What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” (00:25)
- Pharisees’ Reply: The Messiah is the “son of David.”
- Jesus’ Follow-up: He quotes Psalm 110 ("The Lord said to my Lord...") to show that the Messiah is more than just a descendant of David.
- Dr. Barber: “It’s not to deny that the Messiah is the son of David, but to argue that the Messiah is more than just the son of David.” (03:24)
- Historical Context: Tim explains Psalm 110 as a coronation psalm for Solomon, unique in that David bows to his son, showing respect for the installed king.
- Dr. Gray: “It’s the only time in the whole history of Israel that a son takes the throne while his father’s still alive.” (05:14)
- Messianic Implication: Jesus is positioning himself as the ultimate “son of David” and a priest-king in the order of Melchizedek, surpassing both David and Solomon.
2. Priesthood, Authority, and Melchizedek
(Starts at 07:32)
- Psalm 110 in Early Judaism: Used by priestly Hasmoneans to justify their leadership, but Jesus reclaims it to indicate the Messiah’s ultimate spiritual and royal authority.
- Priest-King Typology:
- Jesus as the new Melchizedek and greater Solomon:
“Now Jesus comes like David, as a new Melchizedek, like Solomon, and he’s going to be a priest king.” (09:25, Dr. Gray)
- Jesus as the new Melchizedek and greater Solomon:
- Link to the Passion and Last Supper: Jesus’ later priestly actions are foreshadowed here.
3. Structure of Matthew: Narratives & Discourses
(Starts at 11:38)
- Matthew’s Structure: Patterns of narrative followed by discourses (teachings).
- Significance: Chapter 23 begins Jesus’ last major speech, paralleling His first (Sermon on the Mount). The episode notes many intertextual connections between these two discourses—especially regarding blessings (Beatitudes) and woes.
4. Instructions on Authority and Obedience
(Starts at 13:03)
- Jesus’ Guidance:
“…do and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do.” (13:43, Dr. Gray)
- Clerical Corruption: Even when leaders are corrupt, the teachings should be followed if they remain consistent with God’s law.
- Dr. Barber explains: The seat of Moses (“cathedra”) symbolizes teaching authority—which is recognized and respected, despite personal failings.
5. Teaching Authority and Transfer to the Apostles
(Starts at 14:07)
- Apostolic Succession: The scribes’ and Pharisees’ authority (to “bind and loose”) is a precursor to the apostles' and Peter’s authority (see Matthew 16).
- Dr. Barber: “What the Pharisees have is being transferred to the apostles. And like the Pharisees … the apostles and their successors … sometimes are hypocrites. So too, the apostles and their successors, bishops, even popes … throughout history.” (16:47)
6. On Corrupt Leaders and the Catechism
(Starts at 17:49)
- Distinguishing Person from Office: Even when officeholders are personally corrupt, their office and teaching must be respected—unless they officially teach error.
- Dr. Gray: “We always have to hold to the teaching. Now, if they stray from the teaching and they teach error, then … we don't follow bad teaching. We follow the official teaching of the Catholic Church and the deposit of faith…” (18:38)
7. Development of Doctrine
(Starts at 19:51)
- Doctrinal Development: Doctrines can develop and become clearer—drawing on the thought of St. John Cardinal Newman and St. John Paul II.
- Dr. Gray: “The faith doesn't change. It's just our articulation, our insight into the faith oftentimes grows.” (20:16)
8. “Call No Man Father”: Context & Hyperbole
(Starts at 20:22)
- Common Objection: Fundamentalists use Matthew 23:9 to argue against calling priests “Father.”
- Dr. Gray: “Are we breaking scripture, Michael?” (21:12)
- Response:
- Jesus often uses hyperbole.
- St. Paul refers to himself as a spiritual father (cf. 1 Corinthians, Timothy), so the first Christians didn’t interpret Jesus literally.
- Dr. Barber: “St. Paul says he has become a father to the Christians …” (22:15)
9. The Teaching Fatherhood Jesus Forbids
(Starts at 22:58)
- Original Meaning: The prohibition targets those who would start rival schools of teaching, not everyday use of titles.
- Spiritual Family: Jesus desires one universal (Catholic) family, not factions and rival spiritual fathers.
10. The Seven Woes and Prophetic Judgment
(Starts at 24:46)
- Contrast to Beatitudes: Jesus’ woes mirror Old Testament blessings and curses—offering both warning and invitation to repentance.
- Dr. Gray: “You have the Beatitudes, which literally blessings … here you have beatitudes and woes, which is the blessings and curses.” (26:28)
11. Jesus’ Affirmation of Temple and Law
(Starts at 27:09)
- Respect for the Temple: Jesus affirms the sanctity of Israel’s liturgy and Temple—contrary to those who say he was anti-institutional.
12. Judgment and Mercy as the Heart of the Law
(Starts at 29:47)
- Final Teaching: Jesus warns against missing “the weightier matters of the law, love, justice, and mercy” (29:47) and reminds listeners that the law is fundamentally about God’s love.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- Dr. Barber (03:24): "It’s not to deny that the Messiah is the son of David, but to argue that the Messiah is more than just the son of David."
- Dr. Gray (05:14): “It’s the only time in the whole history of Israel that a son takes the throne while his father’s still alive.”
- Dr. Gray (09:25): "Now Jesus comes like David, as a new Melchizedek, like Solomon, and he’s going to be a priest king."
- Dr. Barber (14:07): "Jesus is talking about the scribes and Pharisees have teaching authority ... so do and observe whatever they tell you."
- Dr. Gray (18:38): "We always have to hold to the teaching ... We follow the official teaching of the Catholic Church and the deposit of faith..."
- Dr. Barber (22:15): "St. Paul says he has become a father to the Christians ... so he can just—and he says that inspired by the Holy Spirit."
- Dr. Gray (26:28): "You have the Beatitudes, which literally blessings … and here you have beatitudes and woes, which is the blessings and curses."
Important Timestamps
- 00:25: Start of discussion on Matthew 22:41 — Jesus’ question about the Messiah
- 03:24: Jesus’ point about the Messiah being more than son of David
- 05:14: Insight into Solomon’s unique coronation as David’s son
- 09:25: Jesus as priest-king in the line of Melchizedek
- 11:38: The structure of Matthew’s Gospel; transition to Matthew 23
- 13:03: Jesus’ teaching on obeying authorities but not imitating their hypocrisy
- 14:07: “Moses’ seat” and meaning of apostolic succession
- 18:38: Distinguishing between office and person in Church teaching
- 19:51: Development of doctrine and the Catechism
- 21:12: “Call no man Father”—hyperbole vs. literalism
- 24:46: Seven “woes” and prophetic judgment
- 26:28: Beatitudes vs. woes; blessings and curses
- 29:47: Jesus emphasizes love, justice, and mercy as the law’s heart
Conclusion
This episode provides a rich, faithful exposition of Matthew 22:41–23:39, focusing on Jesus’ claim to messianic authority, the responsibilities and pitfalls of religious leadership, and the Church’s teaching authority. The host and guest model respectful, scholarly engagement, connecting scriptural texts to Catholic doctrine, liturgy, and moral life—while responding directly to common objections and misunderstandings.
Recommended Follow-up:
- Reread Matthew 5–7 (Sermon on the Mount) alongside Matthew 23–25 to see the parallels in Jesus’ teaching on blessing and judgment.