
This week Dr. Tim Gray and Dr. Michael Barber, professor of Sacred Scripture at the Augustine Institute Graduate School, continue their study of the Gospel of Matthew by diving into 27:32-66.
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A
Welcome to form Now. I'm Tim Gray, president of the Augusta Institute, and Joining me is Dr. Michael Barber, who is a professor of scripture here at the Augusta Institute. And we're going to continue our ongoing Bible study on the Gospel of Matthew. And this has been an intense Bible study, Michael, because we're. I think we're in episode. I don't know, what is it now? 38. It's getting close to the end. 37. So we're hoping that we can finish with 40. As a biblical, it's amazing.
B
We've been doing this since before COVID really hit. So I feel like this has been something that we've been at for a while now.
A
Yeah, that's a marker. It's like pre flood. I mean, pre Covid is epic distinction now.
B
Before COVID B.C.
A
Yeah, that's right. So, you know, last time we covered Matthew chapter 26, and we went all the way through as Jesus is being tried and mocked, and we saw that the end, that he was being mocked as a prophet.
B
And.
A
And then what follows is that last little section of chapter 26, and we mentioned this, that Peter is denying Jesus three times in the courtyard of the high priest, fulfilling Jesus prophecy to him at the Last Supper. And that of course, is an ironic truth because Jesus is being mocked as a prophet as his prophecy is being fulfilled and Peter's denying him. And that sets us up for chapter 27.
B
That's right.
A
You want to take us to 27. There's a opening there that's going to.
B
Quote, I think this is important. So we have. When morning came, all the chief priests and the elders of the people took counsel against Jesus to put him to death. And they bound him and led him away and delivered him. And the Greek word there is paradidomy. They delivered him over to Pilate, the governor. Now this evokes Jesus's earlier passion predictions. Anyone who's been following the story closely knows that Jesus has announced that what happens here was going to transpire. We go back to chapter 20. In Matthew 20, Jesus says the Son of Man will be delivered over to the chief priests and scribes and they will condemn him to death and deliver him. There's that language again. Deliver him over to the Gentiles to. To be mocked. So deliver him over to the Gentiles. This is precisely what is happening. They're leading him out to hand him over to the Gentiles. And as we've mentioned, that identity of Jesus as the Son of Man reminds us of a prophecy we find in the Book of Daniel. There we read about how the Son of Man is given the kingdom that lasts forever. But if we read that passage very closely, we see the Son of Man in many ways stands in the place of the righteous of the saints. So at the end of the chapter, we read that the vision is all about how the saints will receive the kingdom. Well, the Son of Man received the kingdom. So we see the Son of Man represents the saints. One of the interesting things in that passage is in Daniel 7 we hear that the saints will be delivered into the hands of the beast, who's a Gentile ruler. Gentile kingdom, Gentile king. And so what happens to the Saints in Daniel 7 is what happens precisely to Jesus. Jesus embodies what the righteous, what the saints are going to undergo. And there's another side to this. We too are called to enter into that suffering. And so by renouncing Jesus in the garden, Peter is trying to avoid the fate that is for the saints, and. And Jesus embraces it.
A
So this language of being handed over, which is paradidima, this language is. And what you're speaking of, Daniel's an important prophecy, and Daniel's foretelling the fate of Israel and that Israel is going to suffer four different kingdoms that will rule over them and afflict them. And the fourth beast, which is the fourth kingdom, in the imagery of Daniel, even the Son of Man will. Will be handed over because the people of God are going to be handed over. And so Jesus sees his handing over as a fulfillment of the prophecy of Daniel.
B
That's right. In Jesus day, that prophecy was understood to refer to the Romans. You look at Jewish sources, early Christian sources, they interpret this as a prophecy about the fourth kingdom being Rome and how it will persecute God's people. What's amazing is Nowhere in Daniel 7 is the son of man portrayed as suffering. Right. And so you can understand how in Jewish sources, the Son of Man represents the Messiah and he comes victorious. He comes to sit on the throne. He represents the victory over the enemies. It's not until we see what Jesus does that we really get the sense that the Son of Man shares in the suffering of the people.
A
I think, yeah, and I think that. I think that's in Daniel 7.
B
But it's implicit.
A
It's implicit because you have four beasts and each individual beast represents an entire people like the Romans and a nation. And so the Son of Man, I think the Jews would say, represents Israel because Israel is the true humanity.
B
Right?
A
And so once you understand that, and then you go back and you realize Jesus identifies himself as the Son of man, who is handed over like the saints in Daniel 7.
B
Right.
A
Then you realize that the Son of man is going to represent the people of Israel and he's going to share their fate, which will be handed over to the Gentiles. And that's what's so important about the chief priests handing Jesus over to a Roman official.
B
Right.
A
Is handing him over to rome to the fourth beast.
B
Yeah. Just to be clear, in Daniel 7 there's a little bit of ambiguity, right? Because in some passages the fourth beast is described as a fourth kingdom. So we see that in Daniel 7, 23, that the fourth beast is a fourth kingdom. But later on we read that the fourth beast is also a fourth king. And so what we see is that kings can be representative of all the people of the whole kingdom. And Jesus, then as the Son of man, he is the king, he's the one who's given the kingdom, but he also represents all the saints. He represents all those in the kingdom. And so one of the things that you often hear is that Jesus suffered so. So we don't have to. That's not the case. Right. In some non Catholic Christian theology, Jesus suffers on the cross in our place so that we don't have to suffer. And this is the idea behind the Rapture, right. That the righteous will be taken up into heaven before that period of tribulation comes. But Jesus actually shows us no, we are called to share in his suffering. We are called to pick up our own cross and follow after that.
A
And that's the means by which we share in Jesus's glory.
B
Right? Amen.
A
There's no glory without the cross. And so God does not make it such that we don't participate in his suffering. And in his cross, he actually calls us to share it. Take up your cross and follow me. So now as we. And then of course, there's echoes here and we'll talk about it maybe in chapter 28. But the idea of the gathering, the chief priests and the elders taking counsel against Jesus, this is going to allude to Psalm 2, but I want to move a little faster. And we'll come back to that thread because we.
B
Sorry. Once Daniel comes up, I slow things down. I love Daniel.
A
We'll come back to Psalm 2, but next thing happens is Matthew, and this is kind of unique to Matthew. He's going to give us a significant digression about the fate of Judas.
B
That's right.
A
So let's look at that. He says then when Judas, his Betrayer, literally his hand over in the Greek, using that language that we see in Daniel 7, of handing over. When he saw that Jesus was condemned, he changed his mind and brought back the 30 pieces of silver to the chief priests and, and to the elders, saying, I have sinned by betraying innocent blood. They said, what is that to us? See to it yourself. And throwing down the pieces of silver into the temple, he departed and he went. Now you think, oh, maybe he's repenting and he recognizes his sin. But then here's the great danger. It's great to recognize our sin and to humble ourselves before the Lord, but then we have to entrust ourselves to God's mercy.
B
And.
A
And this is where Judas makes a fateful mistake. He doesn't trust God's mercy, and he sees that his sin is bigger than God's mercy and he despairs.
B
That's right. And so he hangs himself. Right. He commits suicide, dying in the same way that David's betrayer died, Ahithophel. And here we have a stark contrast between Peter, who repents, he goes out, he weeps bitterly after he has betrayed Jesus, after he denies Jesus. Yet Peter is able to be restored not because of Peter, but because of the Lord. Peter trusts in the mercy of God. Judas, as you said, despairs of this. And, you know, it might just also be worth noting, he says, I've sinned by betraying innocent blood. And I just. We don't have time. But if we did, I would go through all the various texts from the Second Temple period from Jesus's day, right, where the worst sin that you can commit involves innocent blood being defiled by innocent blood. This is what, more than anything else, brings down the wrath of God. And this is why, for example, earlier in the Narrative In Matthew 23, Jesus talked about how innocent blood had been shed and how because of the blood of Abel and Zechariah who were murdered, judgment will come. So Judas recognizes the weight of what he's been involved in here. The problem that he has is he's, as you said so well, he's not able to see that God's mercy is greater than his own sin.
A
And then Matthew gives us a couple of details. The chief priests take the piece of supplement, says it's not lawful to put them into the treasury since it is blood money. And it's interesting, I mean, the irony here is it's blood money because they paid the blood money. That's right. The great paradox here is that they're the ones guilty and they recognize of using the treasury. And think about that. They used the money of the temple treasury to betray the Lord of the Temple.
B
Right. So many people have pointed out that Judas comes and what does he do? He throws down the silver pieces in the temple. Well, if it's blood money, what's going on here is now the temple is, in a way, defiled by blood. And so there's a connection between Jesus death and the demise of the temple. The temple is destroyed in AD 70. And that event is going to be sort of signified in the Passion narrative, as we'll see in an episode where the temple veil is torn.
A
I want to move on now because just for the sake of time, sure, we don't want to spend five episodes on Judas on Chapter 20 on Judas, or especially on Judas. But let's move on to Jesus now in verse 11. Now, Jesus stood before the governor, and the governor asked him, are you the King of the Jews? So there's that important title, that Jesus is the ruler of the Jews. And Jesus says, you have said so. But when he was accused by the chief priests and elders, he gave no answer. Then Pilate said to him, do not hear how many things they testify against you. But he gave him no answer, not even to a single charge. So that the governor was greatly amazed.
B
Right.
A
And what the governor is probably expecting is him to defend himself, to look out for himself.
B
That's right.
A
And so there's a meekness here that amazes.
B
That's right. And it's the same thing we saw in the trial, the trial with the Sanhedrin, when he's accused, and he says, well, ask my witnesses. Right. So. And we talked about that then here. Or we talked about that then. I'd like to say something, though, about the last line. So that the governor was greatly amazed that Jesus had no answer. That language of being greatly amazed. Thamisin in the Greek is the same word that's used in the suffering servant prophecy of Isaiah, where we read, so he shall startle in the Greek version, same word there. Many nations and kings shall shut their mouths because of him. And then we read that at the end of that passage, he opened not his mouth. And so here Jesus is presented as fulfilling Isaiah's suffering servant passage.
A
Now, in the next scene, we're told that the custom of Pilate, as the governor of Judea, was to release one prisoner during the Passover as kind of a little nod to the Jewish festivities of the Passover, which is being redeemed from imprisonment in Egypt. And he knows it, says he knew That I was out of envy that they delivered Jesus up to him. And of course, envy is their motivation. And that was the sin of the devil.
B
That's right.
A
You know, so that the original sin of the devil was envy.
B
And they're envious because the people follow him, because Jesus is able to work miracles, because Jesus teaches with authority that they don't have. For all of these reasons, they envy Jesus, which is pretty silly, right? I mean, he is the Lord. Right. They want to put themselves in the place of God, which is ultimately what Adam and Eve are guilty of in the Garden of Eden. They want to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Only God declares what is good and evil in Genesis. So they want to be like God without God. What's remarkable is the governor gives them a choice. There are two individuals brought out, right? There's, of course, Jesus of Nazareth, and then there's also Barabbas. And that name, Barabbas, is very significant.
A
It really is. Because, you know, in Aramaic, Barabbas means Bar Son Abba, the Father. So literally, Barabbas means son of the Father. And so you have an alternative here. Jesus, who's the true son of the Father, and Barabbas, who is a counterfeit son of the Father. Because Barabbas way is violent revolution. That's the way you resist the fourth beast, Right?
B
That's not actually said in Matthew, but we know that from the Gospel of Mark, where in the Gospel of Mark, we read that Barabbas was one of those who had committed murder in the insurrection, Right. So he wanted to rise up and overtake the Romans. So his solution to the Roman problem is Benjamin Franklin. God helps those who help themselves. Right. If we want to be free from the Romans, we're going to have to take up the sword. Jesus gives us a different way.
A
Yeah. Because the goal that Jesus is going to have is the conversion of Rome. And you can't convert by killing the people that you're trying to convert. You can't do it. And now it's interesting. Matthew gives us the story of Pilate's wife coming and saying, don't have anything to do with this righteous man. I had a dream about him. But Pilate is stuck. Go ahead.
B
Yeah, you're right. He's stuck. But before we say that, one thing I just want to say is they put it to a vote. And I always like to highlight that Jesus lost the only election he was ever in. Right. Because I think a lot of people imagine that the way we're gonna redeem the world is through politics. The reality is Jesus doesn't save the world by running an election. Jesus saves the world by being persecuted, by suffering, by offering his life in love. And so what we see in the story is the crowd chooses Barabbas, which is pretty significant. They choose the way of, if you will, revolution instead of choosing the way of Jesus. And in fact, the chief priests are the ones who instigate the crowd. So we need to remember that we read in Matthew 27:20, now, the chief priests and the elders persuaded the crowd to ask for Barabbas and destroy Jesus. And of course, Jesus says earlier, he talks about blind guides. If you have a blind guide, you're just going to be led into a pit. That's precisely what's happening here, right? We have wicked leadership in Jerusalem, and they're leading the people astray to make a very, very bad choice, obviously, the worst possible choice.
A
And what we're going to see in verse 24. So when Pilate saw that he was gaining nothing, but rather that a riot was beginning, he took water and washed his hands before the crowd, saying, I am innocent of this man's blood. Notice that blood has been major theme, major theme here, major. I don't know if you wanna say anything more about that, but, I mean.
B
Obviously it's very significant that Jesus is portrayed as the righteous one who is killed, right? And he is sort of the culmination of all the blood that's been spilled. At the same time, we find blood in the upper room where Jesus explains that it's his blood that is the blood of the covenant, the blood that redeems the world. And so we have this amazing contrast. On the one hand, it's the most outrageous crime of all history, right, Deic? To kill the son of God, right? And then at the same time, Jesus is able to bring redemption of the world through that terrible crime. And it shows us that God is able to bring great good out of even the worst evil. And so oftentimes in our life, we might wonder, God, why did you permit this in my life? Why have you allowed such injustice, such horrors in the world to exist? We don't know the answer to all the particulars, but we do know that God has a plan. And we know that even out of the worst crime, the crucifixion of the Son of God, the Lord brings good.
A
That is so true. And, you know, I just want to step back and look at the big picture here. As this crowd is shouting for Barabbas, Pilate realizes a riot is about to break down.
B
It's so important.
A
And it was very important for Roman governors, One of the. The first principle for governing in the Roman Empire, because you're governing an empire of subjugated people.
B
Right.
A
So you're the occupier if you're Rome. And it was very, very important if you're a Roman governor to be successful, that you wouldn't have riots. Riots destroy property. They destroy economic good, and they risk Roman rule. And so the worst thing that could happen is a riot. In fact, when you read Acts of the Apostles, one of the things that people do to fight Paul is they make a riot breakout.
B
That's right.
A
Because he may not be guilty of a crime, but if they say, well, this riot broke out because of you, he was there, he could be arrested.
B
That's right.
A
So that was really important. And governors would be relieved and taken out of duty if too many riots happened in their cities and territory. So pilots becoming afraid. And I want people to understand why Pilate's becoming afraid. It's because a riot is about to break out. And that news goes back to Rome, and that's a black mark on his reputation and on his reign.
B
And there had been riots already under him. Right. So he was already on a short lease. Right.
A
And his predecessor, you know, the reason why there's Roman governors in Judea is because the son of Herod, the great Archelaus, was removed because so many major riots broke out. And Rome said, all right, you can't obviously run a province. We're going to send the professionals in to do that. So there's a lot of pressure on Pilate to make sure that there's not a riot. And the worst time for a riot is during one of the three great festivals. And of course, one of the significant ones here is Passover. And so there's over a million pilgrims probably crowding in to the city and its districts. And so this is a very dangerous time for the Romans, having so many people in such a short area where there's already, you know, people fermenting revolution like Barabbas.
B
Well, especially Passover time. Right. Because Passover was a time when they looked back to when they were liberated from occupiers.
A
And so there are oppressors.
B
Yeah, there was a great sense of hope that God would bring redemption again, in particular at a Passover.
A
Yeah, that's important background. And now, if you've seen Mel Gibson's movie, there's a lot of powerful things that Mel Gibson does in that movie. And there's A lot of brilliant things. But one of the historical errors I believe he has is he shows the Fortress Antonio opening its gates and this Jewish crowd coming into the Fortress Antonio. I can guarantee you that during the Passover, the Romans did not open up the Fortress Antonio for the Jewish high priest and a mob of Jews to come into the fortress of Antonio.
B
So the fortress of Antonio, the Fortress Antonio is right next to the temple, and it's where the Roman guard would have been stationed.
A
Exactly. And so when Herod the Great built it, he built it as a refuge. If he ever went into the temple, he could escape quickly to a fortress. And in his fortress, he could overlook the large crowds and make sure there's no mischief going on. And so the crowd is gathering in the outer court of the temple, where you could fit tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of. Of people in that outer courtyard. And so there's a large crowd of the tens of thousands shouting and yelling and building in the temple as more and more people gather to. And of course, there's probably a lot of people gathering in that crowd that don't know that this is a choice between Barabbas and Jesus. They just know that all of a sudden, the chief priests and the security guard of the temple is telling everybody, run over to the north side of the temple and shout. And of course, their anger, their nationalism against Rome is fermenting and whipping up the crowd. And thus Pilate's becoming very, very anxious. And that's why he's going to act against his best judgment.
B
Right? And so he says he's innocent of this man's blood and washes his hands of the blood, so he doesn't take responsibility for his obvious error. Here we also. I should also mention, you mentioned Mel Gibson's movie, so let me mention another one. Zeffirelli's Jesus of Nazareth classic film portrays this in ways that I can't get out of my head. Every time I pray the mysteries of the Rosary, I think of one particular scene. And it's when they go to the crowd, Pilate says, who do you want? Jesus of Nazareth or Barabbas? Right. Do you want the son of the Father, Jesus or Barabbas? The Son of the Father. The counterfeit, if you will, Son of the Father. And we know from Matthew that the chief priests were telling people, pick Barabbas. Well, there's this great scene where Mary Magdalene, who's horrified at seeing Jesus arrested, he's been beaten, and she sees him standing up there, and she's just overwhelmed with emotion when they bring him out, then the crowd starts calling out Barabbas. And she puts her hand over these other people who are around her and she calls out, jesus, give us Jesus. And it is just so heartbreaking because the camera zooms out and it's so futile, Right. All the crowd is calling Barabbas and she's doing all that she can to try to secure the release of Jesus. And obviously this doesn't happen. I like to put myself in Mary Magdalene's shoes here, right? Not that she was wearing shoes, but sandals maybe. But from her perspective, how is this happening? Right? How is the Son of God, the one who has healed so many people, the One who has won so many people over by his message of love, how is he now in this position? It seems like darkness has descended. And yet we know that God has a plan. And so looking at Mary Magdalene, meditating on Mary Magdalene brings me great comfort because there are lots of times in my life where it seems like things are happening that don't make any sense.
A
Right?
B
Yeah.
A
Then when we conclude with verse 26, it says, you know, then he released for them Barabbas, and having scourged Jesus, delivered him to be crucified.
B
Yep.
A
And so now we're going to, in verse 27, we're going to get a close up now of what the soldiers do to our Lord.
B
Right.
A
So then the soldiers of the governor took Jesus into the governor's headquarters and they gathered the whole battalion before him and they stripped him and put a scarlet robe on him and twisted together a crown of thorns. They put it on his head and put a reed on his right hand. And kneeling before him, they mocked him, saying, hail and King of the Jews, and struck him on the head. And when they had mocked him, they stripped him of the robe and put his own clothes on him and led him away to crucify him.
B
So we should just mention here, because it's one of the mysteries of the rosary. And I know when we pray the mysteries of the rosary, we need things to meditate on that scene of the scourging of Jesus. One line. But it is hugely significant. Scourging was excessively brutal in the ancient world. Seneca is a famous Roman writer and he's asking whether or not it's ever permissible to commit suicide. He's a philosopher and he's saying, well, yes, there is at least one instance, right, where it would be acceptable to commit suicide in his view, and that is if you were sentenced to crucifixion. And he describes what crucifixion is like, he says, can anyone be found who would prefer wasting away in pain, dying limb by limb, letting out his life drop by drop, rather than expiring once and for all? He says, can any man be found willing to be fastened to the accursed tree, long, sickly, already deformed, swelling with ugly wheels on shoulders and chest? What is he talking about here? The effects of scourging. Why is a person already deformed when they get to the cross? Because the scourging was so brutal, as Josephus tells us. First century historian. There was a man named another Jesus, Jesus, son of Ananias. When he was scourged, it says, they flayed to the bone. They flayed him to the bone with scourges. You could see his bones. That's how brutal the scourging punishment was. This is what Jesus undergoes. And then, of course, there's the crown of thorns, which also has tremendous significance. They're mocking him. This is what crucifixion was all about. It was what they call parodic exaltation, a parody of exalting. You, right?
A
Yeah. And the tree by which they got those thorns, you can see it in Israel today, especially if you go down the Mount of Olives. Even halfway down that hill, there is a church, Dominus Flevit, where Christ wept. And they have what is called a Christ thorn tree. And those thorns can be several inches long. And I've held them. They're very, very strong, Very, very strong. And so these would pierce deeply into Christ's head and cause a lot of bleeding and a lot of great pain.
B
Because there's so much blood pressure in your head, right?
A
I remember when I was a kid, everyone's blade, right.
B
I remember when I was a kid, I was playing with a cousin of mine with toy swords, and he hit me in the head with one of these torsourds. And I just bled everywhere. I had a white T shirt on. My mother just about fainted and we had to go to the emergency room. I needed staples in my head, which explains a lot, actually. But your head bleeds, I mean, profusely. And so the crown of thorns is no minor detail here. It is a tremendous act of humility and love for Christ to give himself over to this kind of torment.
A
Let me head you off there and say that now we're entering into the heart of the Passion of Christ. And so what we're going to do is we're going to cover the crucifixion of our Lord in our next episode. And here we have Jesus crowned with thorns. And so we have really the second and third sorrowful mysteries that we've just covered. You know, the excursion of Jesus at the pillar. And of course you can just think about that Mel Gibson movie that really makes it quite evident and really powerful scene how much our Lord suffered for love of us. And then his crowning with thorns. And of course we've seen the title of him, King of the Jews. And that title will keep coming up. And here we have again Jesus being mocked as king. What kind of king allows himself to be captured? What kind of king allows himself to be vulnerable and to be crowned with thorns? And that's going to be the radical way in which Jesus is going to reign as king. He's going to bring great good. He's suffering much. But always remember he's loving even more than he's suffering. And that's what we want to always take away from any reflection on the passion of our Lord. It's always good to an edifying in the end to be to realize how much Christ suffered, but always in light of the fact that Jesus loved and was loving more than he was suffering. And he was suffering because he loved you and me so much. And so we have a lot to give thanks to our Lord for. And I want to thank everybody who supports us through the mission circle, all of our donors that allow us to have this ministry. We're grateful to you, pray for you every day, and we ask you to pray for us. God bless you and we'll see you next week.
Podcast: Catholic Bible Study by the Augustine Institute
Episode Date: December 15, 2025
Host: Dr. Tim Gray
Guest: Dr. Michael Barber
In this episode, Dr. Tim Gray and Dr. Michael Barber conduct a detailed Catholic exegesis of Matthew 27:32-66, exploring the highly charged events leading up to and including the Passion of Christ—Jesus’s trial before Pilate, the crowd’s choice of Barabbas over Jesus, the scourging, and the crowning with thorns. Their analysis draws on deep theological, historical, and Scriptural knowledge, connecting Jesus’s suffering and kingship with Old Testament prophecy and the lived faith of Christians today.
The discussion is deeply scholarly but highly accessible, blending exegetical insight with relatable, pastoral reflections. Both Dr. Gray and Dr. Barber employ a conversational tone, balancing precise theological points with personal anecdotes and prayerful encouragement for the listener.
This episode sets the groundwork for the crucifixion itself, to be discussed in the next podcast. Listeners are encouraged to meditate on the Sorrowful Mysteries of the Rosary, contemplate Christ’s true kingship revealed not by force but by sacrificial love, and to reflect on their own participation in the cross as the path to sharing in Christ’s glory.
End of Content Summary