A (3:53)

Yeah. Most people think, well, we'll have a three to five year plan.

B (3:55)

Exactly.

A (3:56)

And St. John Paul II, he didn't think small, he thought big. He's like, let me come up with a plan for the church for a thousand years. But I think you're right, Lucas, that this idea of the jubilee was very important for St. John Paul II's pontificate. He really saw the year 2000, not because it was a big number, but really it was the 2000th anniversary of the birth of Jesus Christ. And at the center of John Paul's life was Jesus Christ. At the center of his pontificate was getting the church to focus on Jesus Christ. And I think you're exactly right, Lucas, that the whole impetus of the new evangelization was, was reproclaiming the good news of Jesus Christ. And Christ came 2,000 years ago, was born in the mystery of the incarnation, and then he lived and died and preached and saved us. And that just as in the early church there was a proclamation of the good news of Jesus Christ, that now the church needs a fresh new calling of evangelization and a renewal and a refocusing on Jesus Christ. And so Novo millennio inuente is a beautiful letter. And Dr. Akers and I spoke about that on forms. So maybe you caught that or you can go back and rewatch that episode. But we talk about at the center of that is seeking the face of Jesus Christ and doing that through what he called a school of prayer and that we're called to holiness. And I really think that this apostolic letter on the rosary that followed the year after that was kind of, you know, John Paul reflecting, and he had this great Marian devotion, and he felt that there was something lacking in what he gave the church in that, you know, business plan. So I would call it a mission plan rather than a business plan that John Paul gave the church for the next thousand years. There was one key aspect missing, and it was the rosary. And you might think, well, okay, okay. So he said we should focus on Jesus, and now he's saying we should add on the rosary. But for John Paul, the rosary is a powerful prayer that has Christ at the center. Right. I mean, that's really crucial.

B (6:05)

Absolutely. And that's what we have to understand about the rosary is that for John Paul ii, he's called the church in the new evangelization to be a contemplative church and to contemplate the face of Christ. But for the rosary. John Paul II prayed the rosary probably almost every day of his life. He saw that there's something particularly powerful about the rosary because, yes, it's centered on Christ, but it has this Marian dimension. And it's Mary who's present with us, who's praying with us as we contemplate the mysteries of Christ, as we contemplate scripture. And that Marian dimension just takes that prayer and it just gives us. It just makes it all the more powerful because Mary is with us, she's praying with us, and she's literally. John Paul II talks about. She's forming Christ in us as we pray and contemplate the rosary.

A (7:00)

And I love how at the beginning, he talks about Our lady and how she is really the model disciple, that no one contemplated the face of Christ more than Mary, and nobody gave a fiat and was obedient to the will of Christ more than Mary. And so, you know, Christ was at the center of Mary's life, and so she becomes the model disciple. And so that's a key aspect of this Marian dimension. But there's also this Marian dimension that she becomes not only the mother of God, the Theotokos, the mother of Christ, but she becomes our mother. And so he refers to John 19. I think it's around verse 25, where Jesus on the cross looks to the beloved disciples. As behold your mother. And then he turns to Mary and says, behold your son. And that Mary, as the sorrowful mother of God at the foot of the cross, the cross becomes her birth pangs, where she becomes the spiritual mother for the Church, which is the body of Christ, just as she became the mother of Christ and giving birth to Jesus. And so there's this dual motherhood of Mary and that she's to become our spiritual mother and we're to go to her. And I think of, I know many Great Doctors and St. Louis de Montefiore talks about, you know, John was the one apostle, the only apostle who was faithful to Jesus at the foot of the cross. All the other apostles, even Peter, flee, you know, they. They abandoned Jesus in his greatest hour of suffering and persecution. And yet John is there. And why is John there with Jesus? Because John's there with Mary, right? In other words, John was the apostle closest to Mary. And so we could say that in a sense, John is the Marian disciple. You know, Hans Urs von Balthasar talked about the Johannine charism being very Marian. And so John, because he's so close to Mary and he's humble because he's with Mary, he has the courage and the strength to be faithful in the midst of the persecution right now, Lucas, the church is persecuted. The Church is suffering a lot of persecution in the world. And those who are Marian, like St. John Paul II, are those who will be faithful.

B (9:23)

Absolutely. And this is what's so beautiful about Mary's motherhood, is that that is exactly. Her whole purpose is to conform us to Christ. Her whole purpose is to lead us to Christ and have that faithfulness to Christ as she did with St. John. She wants to do that with us, and particularly these days. And that's why I think Pope Francis and a lot of our bishops and a lot of the lay faithful are encouraging the rosary at this time because we need that courage, right? We need that fidelity to Christ, to be faithful disciples, to witness to our modern world in these times of trouble. And this is where John Paul II really, I think the genius of his letter on the rosary is. He's talking about this maternal presence and maternal help for us in the rosary and how Mary really, just like she helped to form Christ and she was his mother as our mother, she helps conform Christ in us. There's a beautiful quote where he's talking about being conformed to Christ with Mary when we say the rosary. And he says the rosary mystically transports us to Mary's side as she's Busy watching over the human growth of Christ in the home of Nazareth. This enables her to train us and to mold us with the same care until Christ is fully formed in us. And that's what makes the rosary so powerful, is that Marian presence. Mary's with us, she's praying with us, she's forming Christ in us. And the other thing that John Paul II mentions about the rosary too, and Mary's presence with us is he says that there's nobody that knows Christ better than Mary his mother. And I'm sure all of you mothers out there, you know this, right? Even myself as the father to my kids, I know my kids, but nobody knows my kids like my wife. Like she has that maternal knowledge and presence to our kids. And that's what Mary does in the rosary, right? So as we're contemplating Christ, as we're contemplating the mysteries, she's there with us and she's helping us to have that deeper knowledge and understanding of Christ which forms Christ more deeply in us. So it's such a powerful prayer for the new evangelization, for these troubling times, to really help us to be that kind of faithful disciple to Christ.

A (11:39)

Mary is a great advocate and she's an advocate who always wants to lead us closer to Christ, you know. And let's just talk about the beginning of this apostolic letter of St. John Paul II. You can find it online on the Vatican's website if you just Google, you know, apostolic letter of St. John Paul II on the rosary. It's a wonderful spiritual short reading, but it really be encouragement. And one of the first things he talks about, Lucas challenges to the rosary. You know, the rosary has become a traditional prayer in the church. It's an important prayer. And he talks, John Paul talks about how after Vatican ii, there was a sense in which the rosary was out of fashion. It was too old fashioned. There was a lot of people who thought we don't need the rosary anymore. And St. John Paul II talks about some of the challenges to thinking that we don't need the rosary anymore. And I know that the rosary really did fall out of practice. I mean, when I was growing up, you know, I went through ccd, but I don't remember people praying the rosary much at all in my church growing up. And then I remember, you know, I had heard of the rosary, but I had never really prayed it much. And so I went to college and I finally went to a Catholic college. I had been in public schools all my life. And one of the first things I wanted to learn is the rosary. And so I didn't know how to pray it. And so I went to the campus, the Newman center, and I remember asking the head of the Newman center, who was a religious nun, I want to pray the rosary. And she said, well, why do you want to pray the rosary? And it was exactly the kind of objections you find at the beginning of this Apostolic letter. You know, that's a little old fashioned, you don't need to do that, you know, But I wanted to learn and so I had to go find out through another source how to pray the rosary. And so I really, when I read the apostolic letter of St. John Paul II on the rosary, it resonated with me because my own experience of people thinking, well, first off, not praying it much because, you know, people thought it was old fashioned. We didn't. And I grew up post Vatican too, you know, in my youth. And so we did get away from it in a lot of ways. And a lot of people did think, oh, it's kind of old fashioned, we don't need it. But. But John Paul says, no, we do need it. Let's talk about what he says.

B (13:56)

Well, yeah, absolutely. One of the objections to the rosary is sometimes as well, it isn't focused on Christ, or maybe it's too focused on Mary and things like that. But what John Paul II is saying is the rosary by its very nature is actually focusing on Christ. It's Christocentric in its absolute nature because it's bringing us to Christ. As a matter of fact, he talks about, even if you look at the Hail Mary, he has this beautiful section on the Hail Mary and he says the very hinge, the very center, I love that of the Hail Mary. You know, we're saying the Hail Mary over and over again is the name of Jesus, right? And so if you think about it, the rosary is almost a litany to Christ, to the holy name of Jesus. So we're already focused on Jesus in that way. But again, back to that Marian maternal presence with us. So it's a very Christological prayer. And if you think of all of the mysteries of the rosary too, they're all focused on Christ, right? And the life of Christ. So the more that we're meditating, the more that we're praying the Hail Marys, it's all focused on Christ. And some of the best people in the church that I've come to know are sometimes, you know, you'll encounter some little old lady that sits in the pew that's been saying her, saying her rosary her whole Life. And they're some of the best theologians and some of the best spiritual warriors.

A (15:17)

Is those faithful women and men who pray the rosary every day and all the time. They're spiritual weapons for us. And I think you're so right that John Paul ii, he talked about the Rosary as Christocentric. And, you know, we talk about Marian devotion, and it doesn't mean that we're devoted to Mary. It means that we're imitating Mary in her devotion to Christ. You know, that's the heart of Marian devotion and is true, authentic Marian devotion is a Christocentric focus, a focus on Jesus Christ. You know, and John Paul mentions that the words of Our lady at the wedding feast of Cana, she turns to the servant and says, do whatever he tells you. And that's what Mary is telling us to do, whatever Jesus tells us and to focus on Jesus, her son. If you really want to please Our lady, if you want to console Mary, you love her son, Jesus Christ, and you focus on her son. That's what Our lady wants more than anything else. But she is to lead us. And so you're right, this is not a Marian devotion that turns us away from Jesus. It's actually the rosary focuses on Jesus and leads us to Jesus. You know, the other thing that was a common response after Vatican II is that Vatican II was telling us to focus on the liturgy. And the liturgy is the source and summit, the Mass especially, and the Eucharist is the source and summit of our faith. And John Paul doesn't deny that. He says absolutely. But what's his response?

B (16:45)

Well, he says also that the liturgy is the source and the summit. But he says we also have to have again back to that contemplative life of prayer, that contemplative life of focusing on Christ. And that flows from the liturgy that leads us to the liturgy. But our lives need to be constantly submerged in contemplating the face of Christ. And this is why he brings us to the rosary. That this should be something that we're doing every day so that all day, every day, we're encountering Christ, we're contemplating him. And all that's going to do then is enrich all the more our experience of the liturgy and our participation in the liturgy. It's not just an hour a Sunday that we do that, and then we forget.

A (17:25)

I love how he says that. Lucas, I think you're exactly right that praying the rosary, the Mass, of course, is the summit of our faith. But by praying the rosary, we dispose ourselves and prepare ourselves to reach the heights of that summit. Right. And so that when we pray the rosary, we're preparing, and the liturgy is the public worship of the whole church as the body of Christ. But in our private prayers, we also have to have not just public prayer, but also we need private prayer, and that we must have our own private, personal prayer. And he quotes our Lord. And again, this is what John Paul always does, you know, to go into your room and pray quietly and secretly to your Father who is in heaven. And so. And of course, every mystery of the rosary is led by an invocation of our Father. And so we're praying to our Father, and we're reflecting on the mysteries of Christ, and we're praying through Mary, but not to Mary.

B (18:27)

Right?

A (18:27)

We're praying through Mary. She's interceding for us, and we're asking that intercession to lead us. But the telos of our prayer and our Marian devotion is Jesus Christ. And I love how John Paul says that, yes, yes, the rosary is the summit, but just because you have a summit doesn't mean you throw out the valley.

B (18:43)

That's right.

A (18:44)

And you have to have that personal prayer, not just communal prayer.

B (18:48)

Yeah, absolutely. And John Paul II can't say enough. And again, back to novo Millennial niuente. And in so many of his writings, this whole theme of the church, of the new evangelization, we have to be a contemplative church that has to be a part of our daily life so that we can be conformed to Christ. Because we can't witness and we can't evangelize if we don't first live a life of holiness. And we can't live that life of holiness unless we are first constantly contemplating Christ. And so that really is really starting with the council and even Paul VI and John Paul ii, that's kind of the. The simple plan. How do we know our faith so that we can live our faith so that we can share our faith? And no coincidence, that's our motto here at the Augustine Institute. How do we help people know and live and share our faith? That's really the formula for the new evangelization. And the rosary fits into that scheme so well because it's helping us to do all of that, really, you know.

A (19:43)

Just to anticipate, since you're on this idea of the school of prayer and how important that is. And I really feel that, you know, in Novomelinio, he talked about a school of prayer and how important prayer is. And in this letter on the rosary, he's saying, well, here's one of the most powerful tools for your personal prayer, and it's the rosary. And he says that he quotes the idea of praying this as a family. And he says a family that prays together stays together, which is a great quote that he stole from Fr. Patrick Peyton, who led the Rosary Crusade. Right, exactly. And his wonderful priest out in California who led this time of praying and had a great radio crusade. But a family that prays together does stay together, and Christians that pray stay as Christians. My deep concern is that we've had so many Catholics who only came once a week to that public prayer that, that we talk about the liturgy, which is the source and summit, but they didn't have personal prayer time. And what's happening right now with COVID is we're seeing. And it's breaking my heart. I was just hearing some numbers earlier this morning about how many people aren't returning to church. And I just heard, you know, because we have a curriculum, as you know, Lucas, for first confession, first communion. And we're looking at the numbers and churches are doing our, you know, continuing our curriculum, but they're saying parishes that had 100 kids in religious ed last year now have 40, and they've seen a 60% drop off of kids in religious ed curriculum. And we're finding that across the board, this huge drop off, which just breaks my heart. And I think of, you know, if we had so many Catholics, but they didn't have personal prayer. They only had liturgical prayer. And now with COVID and all the things going on, you know, they're not stained, they weren't deeply rooted. It's like our Lord says, that seed that's planted on the path that springs up, but it doesn't last under the scorching sun because it doesn't have deep roots. And if we don't have personal prayer, liturgical prayer will be insufficient to carry our Christian life. We have to have personal prayer. You know, the Catechism of the Catholic Church says those who pray will be saved, those who don't. And we have to have personal prayer. And that's why John Paul is so big on here is a great tool for your personal prayer to pray it every day.

B (22:12)

He is. And absolutely. Not only prayer, but talking about sacramental programs and something. And along with prayer, we need catechesis. Right. We need to know our faith. And I think that's one of the crises that we've seen in the last 40, 50 years, despite Vatican II saying, hey, church, if we're going to be a missionary church, we need to deeply know our faith. We had this crisis of catechesis. And this is one of the beautiful things about the Rosary, too, because it's not only a prayer, but it's catechetical. It's deeply catechetical because what are we doing while we're praying? Well, we shouldn't just be praying in the Hail Marys and the Our Fathers and just thinking about what we're going to do tomorrow or what we're going to have for dinner. We should be contemplating the Mysteries of Christ. And in that, it's a constant catechesis on the life of Christ. Right. And John Paul II was so convicted of this. One of the things that gave us in his letter on the Rosary was a new set of mysteries.

A (23:02)

Let's talk about that. The luminous Mysteries of the Rosary. I'm so happy you brought up the idea of contemplation, which gets to the other objection people had of the Rosary, that it was just rote prayer and memorization. And, you know, one of the beautiful things that John Paul talks about is that the Rosary has to have contemplation. Otherwise, praying the words of the Rosary is like a body without a soul if you're praying these words without contemplation. And let's just talk about. In the short time we have, I got to bring you back. And we need to talk about catechesis because Lucas is one of the top catechists in the country, and he's a master catechist. And we want to talk about the importance of catechesis in teaching the faith. But let's just talk about this great gift that John Paul gives us of what he calls a new set of mysteries that he adds to the Rosary. You know, we have the joyful Mysteries. We had the Sorrowful Mysteries that talk about Jesus Passion. We had the Glorious Mysteries which talk about Jesus resurrection. And, you know, John Paul kind of said, you know, there's a little bit of a gap that John Paul. And you can do this when you're a saint and you're a pope.

B (24:06)

Exactly.

A (24:07)

You could kind of say, well, you know, I think the church is missing out on something here. And he really brought a Christocentric focus to the Mysteries of the Rosary by focusing on the Mysteries of light. Jesus life from his baptism to his inauguration of the Eucharist. And he takes those two moments and he gives us five mysteries of the life of Jesus that he calls Mysteries of Light. Let's talk about those five mysteries, because that's a new set of mysteries that he gives to the rosary, and he gives to the church to pray. And by the way, they're my favorite of all.

B (24:40)

I love them, too.

A (24:40)

They're my favorite of all the mysteries of the Rosary because it just dives us deeply into the Gospel and into the life of Jesus.

B (24:47)

Yeah. And I think this is the result of a man who's a very holy man, who prayed the rosary his whole life, who, deeply devoted to Mary and to Christ, wanted to give the church this gift of these tremendous moments in the life of Christ, because that's really what was missing, was these things that happened during Christ's life that were very meaningful. So, again, beginning with his baptism, and then, of course, the wedding feast of Cana, and Mary inaugurating his life of doing miracles and the proclamation of the kingdom, because that's what Christ's life is all about, is bringing the kingdom and proclamating the kingdom, and then the mystery of the transfiguration, where we see Christ and his humanity and his divinity, and then, of course, finally the institution of the Eucharist. So it really does fill in this, what I would say, catechetical gap that was made. And John Paul II was a master catechist, too. So I think he understood that giving the church this now full picture of the life of Christ, beginning with the annunciation, and then all through his life passion, and then, of course, resurrection and ascension into heaven. And then, of course, at the end of the glorious mysteries, we see the full fruits of everything that Christ did in the life of Mary herself and her assumption and her queenship. And that gives us hope as Christians. So that's why I say the rosary is so beautifully catechetical, because that's what you're doing, is you're just constantly meditating on these mysteries of Christ. And the more deeply we know our faith, the more deeply we can share our faith. And this is why, for John Paul ii, the rosary is such a tool and a prayer for the new evangelization.

A (26:23)

Yeah, it really is a great tool for the new evangelization. And I love how, as you talked about these luminous mysteries of the rosaries, one of the things that struck me, I remember when I read this letter, was that John Paul gives us this great luminous mysteries, and we talk about the baptism of Christ, and then we reflect on that, and he mentions that Mary, who uses these words in the wedding feast of Cana, so we talk about the second luminous mystery, where she says to the servants, do whatever he tells you, echoes Mary's echoing the words of the Father at the baptism, where in the mystery of the Baptism, God the Father says, this is my beloved, my chosen. Listen to him. And of course, the Father repeats those same words at the mystery of the Transfiguration, which is the fourth luminous mystery. And God the Father speaks in front of Peter, James and John, and of course, Moses and Elijah and says, this is my beloved, my chosen. Listen to him. And here, Mary, when she says, you know, do whatever he tells you, is saying, listen to him. And so Mary, in a sense, is taking these words of the Father and internalizing them and reflecting on them. And, of course, she gives her fiat to the Father's invitation, you know, when she says, let it be done unto me according to thy word, you know, when the Father sends the angel Gabriel to make the Annunciation to her. So it's really beautiful that, again, that shows you that Marian devotion and John Paul's deep reflection of these connections.

B (27:54)

Absolutely.

A (27:55)

In the last couple minutes, Lucas, what would you say to our audience about what can they learn from these luminous mysteries and from John Paul's admonition for the Rosary?

B (28:04)

Yeah, well, one thing I would just simply say is, if you haven't read this letter, read it. And, you know, it's a magisterial document, it's an apostolic letter, but it doesn't read typically like a document does because it's very personal, it's very spiritual. It changed the way I viewed the rosary. So I would just encourage you, take some time to just read through this and pray through it. But, you know, I think what John Paul II again is exhorting us is in these troubled times where we're seeing, you know, a lot of violence, we're seeing a lot of things happening in our country. We're seeing the decline of the family. I think what John Paul II is saying, we've got to find our true identity, our true mission as Catholics, as sons and daughters of God in Jesus Christ. He fully reveals to us what it means to be human. He fully reveals God to us, our mission. So the rosary is just a fabulous tool to do all of that for us.

A (28:58)

It really is that tool. And I hope that everybody in the audience will take up that tool and go back and read that letter. There's different pieces that we haven't had a chance to even get into that I love in that apostolic letter about the importance of remembrance and praying these mysteries over and over again is helping us keep in memory and remembrance the mysteries of God's life and his deeds. And then, of course, the great fruit, as you mentioned, just now, Lucas of the Rosary is peace. And so a soul. If you pray the rosary every day, and you know, I really recommend that, I love that devotion. I pray it on my way to work every day. It gives me peace. And the fruit of the rosary is peace in our own hearts. And then as we come together as a church, and this is why it's so important for us as a church and a community with people like the Million Rosary March, if we pray this, and this is one of the promises of Fatima, it will bring peace to the world. But first, the first fruits is peace to your soul, and then peace to our world and to the church. So pray, because we need that peace today. Thank all. I'm just grateful to all of you who support us in our mission circle. And may the Lord bless and keep you.