St. Albert the Great

Summary

Catholic Saints Podcast: St. Albert the Great

Host: Taylor Kemp (A)
Guest: Dr. Scott Heffelfinger (B)
Date: November 15, 2025
Produced by: Augustine Institute

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Episode Overview

This episode delves into the life, intellect, and enduring legacy of St. Albert the Great—one of the few saints known as "the Great." Host Taylor Kemp and faculty scholar Dr. Scott Heffelfinger explore not only St. Albert's contributions as a Dominican, scientist, and teacher but also his profound spiritual journey and his mentorship of St. Thomas Aquinas. The conversation highlights what made Albert “great,” the challenges and rewards of holiness in intellectual life, and the lessons modern Christians and educators can draw from his example.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

“The Great” Designation and Historical Context

• St. Albert’s Feast Day: November 15th (00:54)

• Few Saints Called “the Great”: Only a handful in Catholic tradition (e.g., St. Leo, St. Gregory, St. Gertrude). The hosts humorously try to recall all seven (01:18–01:22).

• Why “the Great”?

  • Not an official title from the Church, but a popular designation growing out of the cult of veneration.
  • Pope Benedict’s Insight: Most “Greats” had outsized impact not just on religious life but on temporal (societal/political) matters (02:09–03:03).

  “Almost all of the greats had a significant activity in and an impact on the politics of the day and age in which they were. So they had a very significant role in shaping the societies. Local or national.” (A, 02:29)

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St. Albert’s Early Life and Education

• Born: Around 1200, into a wealthy family—“one of the few who's born at a castle” (B, 04:10)
• Castles: Reality vs. Myth: Fun aside about castles being cold and austere compared to modern expectations (04:48–05:39).
• Education:
  • Studied liberal arts: grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, music, astronomy (05:40–06:10).
  • Early interest in natural sciences, which became a lifelong pursuit.

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Dominican Vocation & Intellectual Contributions

• Joins Dominicans: Recruited by Blessed Jordan of Saxony, after family resistance (06:11–06:30).

• Academic Career:

  • Studies and teaches across Germany and at the University of Paris (Europe’s intellectual hub at the time).
  • Renowned for integrating faith and science—“the intellectual climate at the university could tend to be a little bit divorced from the faith…St. Albert kind of unites that in his holy character and his intellectual life.” (B, 07:05)

• Major Contributions:

  • Natural Sciences: Wrote extensive treatises on scientific inquiry, geography, and natural history.
  • Aristotle’s Introduction: Crucial in bringing and defending Aristotle’s works in the West, reconciling them with Christian teaching (B, 08:23).

  “He brings Aristotle basically to the West…Albert begins the first sort of great set of arguments that Aristotle is compatible with Christianity.” (B, 08:23)

• Mentor to St. Thomas Aquinas:

  • St. Thomas’ teacher and friend—“the teacher outlives the pupil” (B, 09:36).
  • After Aquinas’ death, St. Albert traveled to Paris in 1277 to defend him and his teachings (B, 09:37).

  “He defends Thomas in Paris before the bishop there and some other theologians as an act of love for Thomas, but above all for the truth.” (B, 10:01)

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End of Life: Humility and Final Purification

• Loss of Memory:

  • In his last years, Albert’s “memory fails”—understood as a providential, purifying trial foretold to him by Our Lady (B, 10:45).

• Biographer’s Reflection:

  • Holiness marked his later years, especially after relinquishing intellectual pursuits, contrasting his earlier subtle self-assertion in writing.

• Spiritual Lesson:

  • The path of holiness continues to the end, purifying every aspect, even intellectual pride—“self love and self aggrandizement can run very deep.” (B, 11:26)

  “Holiness just goes deeper and deeper if we're open to the Lord's will…Even if we can live a relatively holy life, show forth holiness in certain areas, there can be…other areas where we still have a little bit of pride or vanity or… imposing ourself on things. And St. Albert had to sort of be refined at the very end of his life.” (B, 11:26)

Parallels and Takeaways

• Gift and Responsibility:
  • The danger for those naturally gifted, like Albert, to fall into pride—reminder that all is gift and should serve God’s truth (12:03–13:46).
• Final Purification:
  • Compared to St. Louis Martin’s late-in-life suffering as a final preparation (A, 12:41).

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Lessons from St. Albert’s Life

• Greatness in Christian Perspective:

  • “Greatness for the Christian is not about self glorification.” (B, 16:59)
  • Albert’s humility in teaching, producing saints like Thomas Aquinas.

• Education as Service:

  • Emphasis on the integration of intellectual pursuit with holiness and service—“it can never just be an academic endeavor…ultimately it's about God.” (A, 17:54)

• Friendship and Spiritual Formation:

  • Formation of Aquinas illustrates the power of mentorship and spiritual friendship.

• Living the Liberal Arts:

  • Pope Benedict noted Albert’s “education in liberal arts, a life of prayer and sacrament, and good mentors” as key to following God’s voice (B, 19:22).
  • Modern relevance—Augustine Institute echoes this model in its Master of Arts in Christian Education.

  “This is such a fruitful kind of combination that Albert the Great had, and I hadn't thought of it before, but in some way we're almost replicating those sure things to discover and follow God's voice…” (B, 20:32)

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Lasting Legacy and Model for Today

• Doctor of the Church:

  • Albert is called the “Universal Doctor”—noted for breadth of knowledge, especially in the natural sciences, distinct from Aquinas as “Universal Doctor” for theology (19:01–19:22).

• Model of Attention:

  • Albert’s habit of close observation—journaling, mapping, noting details of the natural world—serves as a model for attentive engagement in a distracted age (B, 21:45).

  “Attention is a great thing. We don't want to lose that, I think, with all of the distractions that we have around us. So St. Albert's a great lesson there, I think, for us.” (B, 22:31)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On “the Great” title:

  “There are only a handful of greats… and I can't think of all of them…” (B, 00:56)
  “It's not like an official designation that the church grants. So it's probably recognized in like a canonization process or something like that.” (B, 01:39)

• On Humility and Holiness:

  “Holiness… goes deeper and deeper if we’re open to the Lord’s will… self love and self aggrandizement can run very deep.” (B, 11:26)

• On Christian Greatness:

  “Greatness for the Christian is not about self glorification.” (B, 16:59)
  “One of the greatest joys of being a teacher is to see a student not only sort of flourish and learn, but even surpass the teacher.” (B, 16:43)

• On Attention:

  “He drew detailed maps of Europe and, like, got the mountain ranges correct and all these things…To have the kind of friendships that St. Albert had with St. Thomas especially. Attention is a great thing.” (B, 21:45 / 22:31)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:54 – St. Albert’s feast day and list of “Great” saints
• 02:05–03:28 – Why the “Greats” are called great (Pope Benedict insight)
• 04:00–05:39 – Early life, castle upbringing, and education
• 06:40–08:23 – Studies, Dominicans, intellectual achievements
• 08:23–09:36 – Albert brings Aristotle to Western Christianity
• 09:37–10:01 – Defense of St. Thomas Aquinas in Paris
• 10:45–11:57 – Albert’s failing memory, last years, and humility
• 12:03–13:46 – Lessons about gift, pride, and purification
• 16:43–17:54 – The joy of teaching, humility, and mentorship
• 19:01–19:22 – Distinction between Albert and Aquinas as “Universal Doctor”
• 20:32–20:50 – Modern echo of Albert’s educational model
• 21:45–22:34 – Final lesson: the gift of attention

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Conclusion

This episode offers an in-depth look at how St. Albert the Great’s intellect, humility, and deep attention to both the natural world and his students left an indelible mark on the Church. His life is a call for integrated Christian living—where study serves holiness, attention is a spiritual exercise, and even the “greats” seek purification up until life’s end. The timely lessons for teachers, scholars, and all the faithful are clear: pursue truth in service to God, cultivate humble mentorship, and never cease marveling at the gifts and the responsibilities they entail.

For further learning, listeners are encouraged to seek out Pope Benedict’s catechesis on Albert the Great and consider how modern programs can echo the saint’s legacy of integrated faith and learning.

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Transcript

[A]

You're listening to a podcast on Catholic Saints. This podcast is produced by the Augustine Institute, an apostolate helping Catholics understand, live and share their faith. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Catholic Saints podcast. My name is Taylor Kemp. I am our Vice President of content at the Augusta Institute. And with me today is Dr. Scott Heffelfinger, a faculty member of the Graduate School of Theology. Theology and our director of Content Development. Scott, welcome to the show.

[B]

Thanks. Great to be here.

[A]

We are happy to have you here, Scott. Today we are talking about a great saint because he's called the Great.

[B]

The great.

[A]

The great. St. Albert the great. He is a saint that I know you love. I have quite an affinity for him as well. So tell us about St. Albert the Great and to begin, when is his feast day?

[B]

November 15th.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Feast day of St. Albert the Great. Yeah. There are only a handful of greats, you know, if you try to think of some. And I can't think of all of them but Pope St Leo the Great, Pope St Gregory the Great, there's a St Gertrude the Great, you know, we think of John Paul the Great. St. John Paul the Great, you know, do you know any others?

[A]

So I think there's seven.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

But I can't remember the other two. You just named five.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I don't know. So listeners out there, you might have to Google it. Little Catholic trivia for you. Yeah, we're flipping the script here normally. Yes, we're flipping the script here.

[B]

Flip it, flip it.

[A]

How do saints get the moniker the Great? I've looked this up. Because I didn't know.

[B]

Yeah, I think, I mean, my understanding is the way it typically. So most of the greats are called the great, like within the cult of veneration, short towards the end of their life or shortly after. So it's kind of a popular designation that just takes hold. It's not like an official designation that the church grants. So it's probably recognized in like a canonization process or something like that. That'd be my guess.

[A]

I. I think that's right. So. And what I'm about to say, I was. Pope Benedict gave this. So for when he was alive, explained how why were the greats the greats. And he says it's not totally like cut and dry. Clear science first of all. So I think you're right. Like there was a natural kind of devotional element within the. The cultus after the saints death. But he said what I. What you can notice is almost all of the greats had a significant activity in and an impact on the politics of the day and age in which they were. So they had a very significant role in shaping the societies. Local or national.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Broader than just like, the religious community that almost all of the greats had a particular impact at, like, more of the kind of secular level of society.

[B]

Yeah. That's fascinating. I mean, because they're, you know, we can call it secular. Another word, secular sometimes can, you know, a complicated relationship with the word. It actually is just a neutral word. But another word that maybe is less complicated is temporal. They have this, like, outsized effect in the temporal sphere, which can only be the result, really, of, like, their charity, ultimately.

[A]

But.

[B]

Yeah, that's fascinating.

[A]

I know, isn't it? So I've always. So he. Benedict was like, look, there. There is no clear formula for why, but he's like, if you look back, that. That has been the case in each of the greats. They. They had a significant impact on the temporal sphere, both religious and kind of societal.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Writ large.

[B]

So let's come back to that and try to figure out if that applies, whether that applies to. So St. Albert the Great. But I wanted to ask you something. What. What do you think of first when you think of St. Albert the Great?

[A]

St. Thomas Quinus.

[B]

Me too.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Right. Okay. And I think this is really fascinating because Here he is, St. Albert the Great. I know of him because of St. Thomas Aquinas. You maybe learned about him more or.

[A]

Less, because you were my teacher. So whatever you've got in your mind is now in mine.

[B]

And I. To come back to that, because there's something, I think, remarkable, like, we just talked about what the great saint. You know, the saints who have the designation great, like, they have this outsized effect, but there's something about St. Albert where it's different. And I don't know, I'm. I'm still, like, thinking about that myself. But let's. Let's talk a little bit about his life. So he's born around the year 1200, and he's born into a wealthy family. He's one of the few who's born at a castle, I think. Wouldn't that be kind of cool? Castle? I mean, who.

[A]

Okay. Like, I like the idea of castles, but there's been times we've had the blessing of being able to go to Europe and see some of the older castles. And I think there, like, I'm sure that castles were obviously a heightened form of living for that day and age, but you're still walking around. You're like, it had to be freezing here. Like, it had to be this, it had to be that. So I like castles. Don't get me wrong, I like castles, but I am still like it. It is so completely austere, most likely compared to our day and age. Please correct. My eyes.

[B]

The disenchantment or the demythologization of castles.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Well, that was. I mean, there's the Disney castle and then there's like, the reality, and then. Thank you for that. Realistic, dank, dark.

[A]

I'm sure they would be great. And I bet I would love living in a castle with air conditioning in that.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Just, you know, with the contemporary luxuries. Okay.

[A]

But he grew up in a castle.

[B]

He grew up in a castle. He's educated in the city of Padua in Italy. And interestingly, he's educated in what are known as the liberal arts. I want to come back to that because we have a program that's kind of similar here at the Augustine Institute in the graduate school. Our Master of Arts in Christian Education. Put a pin in it. Let's come back to it. But liberal arts, he's studying grammar, rhetoric, logic, arithmetic, music, astronomy, these sorts of things. And within that, he develops a keen interest in natural science. So he. He actually becomes one of the great sort of natural scientists of his day. And he's renowned for this. So this interest is developing. The Dominicans are pretty new as an order at the time, and Blessed Jordan of Saxony, who follows St. Dominic to become Master General. The Dominicans ends up kind of recruiting St. Albert the Great. And then we have kind of this, you know, almost trope in saintly stories. His uncle protests. There are threats of violent removal. It doesn't work out, and poof, we have a saint. That's kind of how it goes. But so he enters the Dominicans, he continues his studies and becomes a teacher himself. He's studying and traveling all throughout Germany. Because of his promise and his keen intellect, he's sent to the University of Paris, which is kind of like the intellectual hub in. In Europe. He's sent there to complete his studies. And there's some interesting things that we could talk about, but, you know, maybe in the interest of time, we won't. But he is. This intellectual climate at the university could tend to be a little bit divorced from the faith. There was this debate about how does theology belong in the university or in the monastery. And I think St. Albert kind of unites that in his holy character and his intellectual life. So he basically launches into a. A kind of teaching Career, he's teaching philosophy, theology, and he still has this great and wide ranging interest in the sciences. So one of his, so maybe two major things that he does in this kind of career of teaching and intellectual pursuit. The first is to, to work up really lengthy treatises on scientific inquiry and scientific pursuit and discoveries. He has a great attention to, to the world, the natural world. And so he's doing what we probably now call natural history, he's doing geography. And so there's that side of what he does which really interesting. We'll come back to it. And then he has, he brings Aristotle basically to the West. The works of Aristotle were just being translated into Latin at the time from Aristotle's Greek. Aristotle's logical treatises, some of them had been around. But now the breadth of Aristotle's teaching comes into, into the language. There are questions about like, can this really be like, consistent with Christian teaching? Albert begins the first sort of great set of arguments that Aristotle is compatible with Christianity. His pupil, whom he meets around this time too and starts teaching is St. Thomas Aquinas. St. Thomas will kind of continue and bring that project to its completion. He has some administrative success in, in kind of establishing a course of study. So he ends up becoming the head of the Dominicans in Germany. He's made a bishop at Regensburg for a couple of years where he kind of cle things up. But then he, he resigns to go back to teaching in Cologne. Okay. And around the same time. And, and here, you know, he's around the age of 60, 70 years old, he's teaching in, in Cologne. St Thomas Aquinas dies an untimely death. He's young. And that's significant because first of all, the teacher outlives the pupil.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

And second of all, after St. Thomas dies in 1274, there are questions that come about St. Thomas's teaching, especially because of his affinity for Aristotle's works, which are still kind of disputed. And the elderly St. Albert goes, travels to Paris in 1277 to defend Thomas, his beloved pupil and friend. They were close friends. That's also a neat theme. And so he defends Thomas in Paris before the bishop there and some other theologians as an act of love for Thomas, but above all for the truth. A year after that, his memory fails and he apparently told some people about this, something Our lady had said to him about how he'd be given these extra gifts of intellect, but at a certain point they would fail and then he'd kind of return to an ordinary or even subordinary State. So he lives the last two years of his life. Yeah, he lives them humbly, but in tranquility. He's no longer writing, and in 1280, he dies peacefully. But the interesting thing about that memory feeling, which I had never known in. In what I knew of St. Albert, is that one of his biographers points out after his death that St. Albert the Great lived a life of remarkable holiness. But he looks to his writings and says, in the area of his writings, you can tell that he fell short of, he says, the saintly suppression of self, unlike St. Thomas Aquinas, who is able to kind of decrease so that the truth, you might say, may increase. And then the biographer goes on to say that basically only after putting down his pen and living in prayer and penance do we feel ourselves in the presence of a candidate for canonization.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Isn't that interesting?

[A]

It is.

[B]

And so I think for me, the lesson there, you know, thinking about the end of his life in his writing, it is very easy. Well, basically, holiness just goes deeper and deeper if we're open to the Lord's will. And the reason is because self love and self aggrandizement can run very deep. So that even if we can live a relatively holy life, show forth holiness in certain areas, there can be particular other areas where we still have a little bit of pride or vanity or just imposing ourself on things. And St. Albert had to sort of be refined at the very end of his life.

[A]

Well, and especially as it relates to gifts. Especially like a heightened gift like Albert. Like this heightened intellect.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

So at the natural level alone, how difficult would it be when, you know, he was more naturally gifted than the vast majority of everyone around him, to recognize like the Lord gave him those gifts for a purpose, ultimately, you know, to serve. To serve him, to serve the truth, to be able to write as he did and to teach as he did. But like, of course, how difficult is it on the human level to not take some level of pride or ownership over those gifts and not recognizing the true proper place they were. A gift, a gift received. And then what a mercy to have this kind of last period of his life in which they were removed for the. The kind of. In preparation for his. His eternal reward. It reminds me at. Right when you segued into that story. I've always been impacted by a story about St. Louis Martin, who had a wonderful life of holiness, obviously, but he had a challenging life. His. His wife passed away, but he has these saintly daughters being one of them. But at the. Towards the end of his life. He, he has these writings where he basically says, like, I'm too happy. My life is too good. Lord, you've given me so much. Like his business was doing well, he was stable. His girls had gone off to convents. Like, he was like, I'm too happy. And towards the end of his life, he was admitted into, you know, an insane asylum for a period of time. And it was, it, it was like almost this like final purification, death to self, that prepared him. And it's just I, I feel like this is a similar story where he had been. Albert had been given so much. He had put that to good use. But then, yeah, there's that, that little bit of. What is, what is St. Francis de Sales use? A little bit of aloe or a little bit of.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Alloy metals or something.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. This, it never stops in this life, you know, that, that purification. And I think, you know, there's a way that we see this just as you described in St. Albert's Life of the Mind, right, where you're engaging with other thoughts and especially think about, you know, his sort of defending Aristotle. It's so easy in the life of the mind or in argumentation to, you know, there's defending the truth and there's being right. And these two things can be so closely tied together that I'm defending Aristotle, right. We might say, because this is the truth. But who doesn't enjoy, like being right? I'm thinking I'm right. And so. And this is not just like a thing for intellectuals, right. This is an ordinary, everyday thing when we get into a discussion with someone and at a certain point we might realize I've almost lost sight of what I'm actually arguing for. I just want to be right, you know, and, and I think there's a lesson that that line is hard to let that go. It's hard to let that go. And that might have been, you know, part of the refinement at the end of, at the end of his life. So, so that's kind of a run through of his life and a remarkable one.

[A]

It is. It also, I mean, we love St. Thomas also highlighting there that like he. That there was this awareness that he was doing it almost completely selflessly. Yeah, he just had to die early for that. I know the Lord has his ways of bringing us to, to himself, but yeah, it's an, it's an, it's a remarkable life. I mean, I know you have a close affinity for him, especially because of his academic care career. I think many of our professors, like, likely do. So what are some things we can take away from him? Some things that we can, you know, particularly distill out of his life, the witness that he gave that can, you know, inform our thinking about things or the way that we live?

[B]

Yeah, there are several things, really. I mean, so this kind of brings us back to. We were talking about, like, why is he called great? And I was just thinking, as you described, you know, that kind of big impact. And Albert did a lot of things, so he did have a great impact. And I'm just trying to think about what might the big impact be. And I wonder if it is kind of sort of reshaping the intellectual landscape by bringing the works of Aristotle. Yeah, so that could be part of it. But, you know, we also kind of laugh a little bit about how he's called the great, but we know him because of St. Thomas Aquinas. And. And I was just, you know, as a teacher, what I thought about was how one of the greatest joys of being a teacher is to see a student not only sort of flourish and learn, but even surpass the teacher. And in that sense, St. Thomas is universally acknowledged to be this surpassing thinker, as great as St. Albert was. But that's part of St. Albert's greatness that he was able to. To form a pupil who is just. This is a bad word to use like a superstar, you know, in the academic world. So there's not really a tension there. And I think there's a lesson that greatness for the Christian is not about self glorification.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And. Yeah, I think it's really beautiful, actually.

[A]

Yeah, I agree. And certainly. And one of the things that. I would say one of the greatest lessons and things I'm most grateful for in learning from you and others of. Of our faculty is recognizing that the teachers that we have here are trying to teach effectively and hand on the faith in a thorough, systematic, faithful way, but then also recognizing, like, at the end of the day, the witness of holiness and going to mass and developing a prayer life, that it's all for the sake of. Of clinging to God and leading. Leading others towards him. And that you can see that with. With Albert and Thomas too, that for as surpassing a thinker as Thomas was, that Thomas had a saintly holiness, which he certainly would have. Much of that would have been absorbed, informed by. Modeled by St. Albert.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that for in the realm of education, like, it can never just be an academic endeavor, which I think we do really well. I think our faculty do really well, is recognizing that all that we are doing is in service to the truth. But ultimately it's. It's about God. It's about one's own relationship with God and then leading others to that. And you can see how for the saintly model that has been left from Thomas, both in terms of his intellectual gifts and. And lessons, but his witness of holiness, which. There's all different kinds of stories about him, that. That Albert would have shaped that in him and been an instrument of God for Thomas, which is just.

[B]

And it's a great model in that context, too. I didn't mention that Albert is actually a doctor of the Church. Yeah, big deal. Big deal. And I think, you know, he's actually called the Universal Doctor, which is interesting because St. Thomas, at least under a certain translation, could also be called the Universal Doctor. That's what I thought. And they mean different things. They mean different things. So what? In St. Albert's case, he's considered the Universal Doctor because of the breadth of his intellectual interests covering all things. Okay, Thomas.

[A]

Because Thomas didn't have breath.

[B]

Well, Thomas did, but Thomas wasn't quite the same scientist that Albert was, I think. Think that's fair to say, though it's interesting. He did take some of those sort of scientific observations and examples from Albert and use them to good effect in his own work. But Thomas is the Universal Doctor because he's the com. The Universal Doctor in the sense that the Universal refers to the universal Church.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

He is the doctor when it comes to theology for the whole Church, the common doctor of the east and the West. So it means different things. Yeah. And I wanted to. When Pope Benedict XVI had this series of addresses that he gave or catechises on the fathers and doctors of the Church. And I love looking at those whenever I, you know, find a saint that he's talked about. And he does talk about St. Albert the Great. And he makes this amazing point that when you look at the early life of Albert the Great, he had a specific type of education in liberal arts. He had a life of prayer and sacrament. He had good mentors in Blessed Jordan of Saxony. And this led to discovering and following God's voice. This is like the tried and true way to discover and follow God's voice. And it made me think actually of a program that we started to offer recently in the graduate school, a Master of Arts in Christian Education, because this is a liberal arts formation, teaching teachers how to teach according to classical liberal arts approaches. It's embedded in a life of prayer and sacrament. Here at the Augustine Institute. And, you know, hopefully we have good mentors on the faculty and among the staff. So this is such a fruitful kind of combination that Albert the Great had, and I hadn't thought of it before, but in some way we're almost replicating those sure things to discover and follow God's voice in our Master of Arts in Christian Education. So, you know, just a plug for that program, which is, which is a great one.

[A]

It is. And listeners out there, these were largely unplanned plugs. So we're not, we're not. I wasn't trying to tee us up to sell things, but if the shoe fits, is this God's call? Maybe. Things to think about. But we love, we love St. Albert. We love St. Thomas. You, you. You'll find, I don't know if our faculty, many of our faculty would self proclaim themselves to be Thomas, but I think that that's probably pretty close. Yeah, close to accurate, but it is, it's just, it's a great story of friendship, of the pursuit of the intellectual life in service of the truth and charity, and that has lived on, informed the church today. Obviously, St Thomas, his teaching has informed so much of the catechism and the dogmas and doctrines that we have. So we're grateful for him. Scott, Any, any closing thoughts, comments on St. Albert the Great?

[B]

Maybe just the last thing is St. Albert was known for having incredible powers of attention to the world around him, the natural world. He would always keep a journal and just be writing things down, observing things. He drew detailed maps of Europe and, like, got the mountain ranges correct and all these things. So I think there's a lesson for us, you know, in our day and age here we can get so caught up in the work of our own hands, whether that's cities or malls or technology, our phones, to kind of rediscover that, that faculty and ability and gift of attention, especially to the world around us, the natural world, the people around us, to have the kind of friendships that St. Albert had with St. Thomas especially. Attention is a great thing. We don't want to lose that, I think, with all of the distractions that we have around us. So St. Albert's a great lesson there, I think, for us.

[A]

Yep. Couldn't agree more. Well, thanks everybody out there for listening to Catholic Saints, where we hope to unpack the lives of the heroic men and women that the Lord has left us and bring glory to him and also instill confidence and trust that he is working in our lives today. So thank you so much for joining. We will see you next time on Catholic Saints. God bless.