Catholic Saints Podcast: St. Ambrose

Host: Dr. Ben Akers
Guest: Dr. Elizabeth Klein (Augustine Institute)
Episode Date: December 7, 2025

Overview

This episode celebrates the feast day of St. Ambrose, one of the four great doctors of the Western Church. Dr. Ben Akers and Dr. Elizabeth Klein explore Ambrose’s unexpected rise from lay politician to Bishop of Milan, his pivotal role in early Church controversies, his profound impact on St. Augustine’s conversion, and his lasting legacy as both a theologian and pastor. The discussion highlights how Ambrose’s character, learning, and pastoral innovation continue to inspire the faithful.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Ambrose’s Background and Dramatic Election as Bishop

• Ambrose’s Early Life

  • Raised in a Christian home, he followed his father into politics, becoming the governor of Milan—the Roman Empire's then-capital.
  • Despite his Christian household, Ambrose was not yet baptized—common for the era.

• The Arian Controversy Context [01:42–03:55]

  • Major theological dispute in the fourth century: Was Christ fully divine or only semi-divine?
  • After the bishop of Milan died, a conflict arose between Orthodox (Nicene) and Arian factions about succession.

• Ambrose’s Sudden Election [03:25–04:01]

  • As governor, Ambrose tried to keep peace during the heated selection of the new bishop.
  • The crowd acclaimed Ambrose himself as their choice for bishop—even though he was not baptized yet.
  • He was “baptized, ordained and installed as bishop within a week.” (Dr. Klein, 03:59)

2. The Ancient Practice of “Bishop by Acclaim”

• Not Unheard of in Early Church [04:27–05:02]
  • Public acclamation was a common way bishops were chosen; not a modern, formalized process.
  • St. Augustine himself was ordained “sort of by force” in a similar manner.

3. Ambrose’s Transformation and Character

• From Politician to Ascetic Bishop [05:22–06:42]
  • He was known as a fair, competent governor, admired even by opponents.
  • Upon becoming bishop, Ambrose gave his wealth to the poor, lived chastely, and committed to theological study—especially of Greek sources, which was rare in the West.
  • Notably, Ambrose was “reading a book silently”—startling Augustine since reading aloud was the norm at the time. (Dr. Klein, 06:38)

4. Ambrose as a Teacher and Evangelist: Impact on Augustine

• Augustine’s Experience [07:07–09:17]
  • Augustine sought Ambrose for his reputation as a speaker, but was most struck by his kindness and openness.
  • “Ambrose takes Augustine’s questions seriously... But with Ambrose, [Augustine] saw a man who was actually genuinely interested in him and generally interested in giving him the truths of the faith.” (Dr. Akers, 08:36)
  • Ambrose’s genuine charity is emphasized as the first step in Augustine’s eventual conversion.

5. Ambrose’s Pastoral and Leadership Qualities

• Discipline and Lay Skills in Ministry [09:17–10:17]

  • Ambrose modeled discipline and brought transferable skills from secular life into ministry.
  • This is a call for laypeople today to bring their expertise to serve the Church.

• Courage with Emperors [11:02–13:07]

  • Ambrose famously excommunicated Emperor Theodosius after the massacre of 7,000, only readmitting him after public penance.
    • “He exhorts him to follow the example of David in being sort of publicly repentant of this terrible crime.” (Dr. Klein, 11:15)
  • Ambrose also refused imperial requests to hand churches over to Arians, showing steadfastness and willingness to suffer for the Church.

6. The Depth of Ambrose’s Legacy

• Influence on Augustine [13:43–16:06]
  • Ambrose provided not only teaching but lived example and love, which made truth compelling for Augustine.
  • “That man of God received me as a father and as a bishop, welcomed my coming. I came to love him not at first as a teacher of the truth… but for his kindness towards me.” (Dr. Akers quoting Augustine, 14:22)
  • Ambrose ultimately baptized Augustine, and records remain of the catechesis and hymnody Ambrose composed for new Christians.

7. Literary and Liturgical Contributions

• Ambrose as Hymn Writer and Preacher [16:06–17:29]

  • Many Ambrosian hymns are part of the Church’s tradition, some still sung today.
  • Ambrose’s liturgical reforms and sensitivity to worship enriched the spiritual life of his flock and solidified Milan’s influence in Western Christianity.

• Visit to Milan [17:29]

  • Today, the original baptistry where Ambrose baptized Augustine can still be visited in Milan.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Ambrose’s Election as Bishop
  • “He’s baptized, ordained and installed as bishop within a week.” (Dr. Klein, 04:01)
• On Silent Reading
  • “The fact that he was able to read silently to himself for hours at a time really impressed and amazed Augustine.” (Dr. Klein, 06:28)
• On Ambrose’s Charity Leading to Augustine’s Conversion
  • “What Augustine is most moved by... is Ambrose’s charity, his Christian charity, his character as a human person.” (Dr. Akers, 14:36)
• On Ambrose’s Role in Church-State Relations
  • “Ambrose excommunicates [the emperor] and he actually refuses to let him back into communion and back into the church until he’s done public penance for a number of months.” (Dr. Klein, 11:07)
  • “If you want to take me, you know, I’ll go quietly... but I will never hand over the property of the Church.” (Dr. Klein, 13:18)
• Practical Takeaway
  • “I encourage you, an action point that you can take away from this is to go and find some of the reflections of Ambrose, especially his teaching on the Psalms. It’s really beautiful.” (Dr. Akers, 16:13)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Ambrose’s Background and Election – [01:42–04:01]
• Practice of Bishop by Acclaim – [04:27–05:02]
• Transformation into Bishop & Greek Influence – [05:22–06:42]
• Impact on Augustine: Openness and Kindness – [07:07–09:17]
• Discipline and Lay Ministry – [09:17–10:17]
• Ambrose vs. The Emperor – [11:02–13:07]
• Lasting Influence on Augustine & the Church – [13:43–16:06]
• Ambrosian Hymns and Milan Today – [16:06–17:29]

Final Reflections

The hosts conclude by encouraging listeners to take inspiration from Ambrose, whether as models of charity, courage, or faithful service. Ambrose’s legacy is not just for historians; his blend of intellect, leadership, and pastoral love remains a timeless example for anyone seeking to serve the Church or accompany others in their faith journey.