Catholic Saints Podcast: St. Clement of Rome
Augustine Institute
Episode Date: November 23, 2025
Host: Dr. Ben Akers
Guest: Professor Carl Van Estrom

Episode Overview

In this engaging episode of Catholic Saints from the Augustine Institute, Dr. Ben Akers and Professor Carl Van Estrom dive deep into the life and legacy of St. Clement of Rome, recognized as the third successor to St. Peter and one of the earliest and most influential figures in the Church’s apostolic history. Their discussion explores Clement’s historical context, his influential Letter to the Corinthians, and his enduring relevance for Catholics today.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Historical Setting of St. Clement

• St. Clement served as Pope from about AD 91–102, making him a direct link to the apostolic era.
  • "He actually met the apostles...almost as if he had the ringing of the apostles preaching in his ears." (Dr. Akers, 01:09)
• Although little is known about Linus and Cletus (the first two popes after Peter), Clement stands out due to his documented role in early Church disputes.
  • "To be the kind of men that are chosen by the priests, that are the deacons that are in Rome at the time to say, this person will succeed Peter." (Dr. Akers, 02:29)

2. Clement’s Letter to the Corinthians: Context and Content

• Clement’s most significant surviving work is his First Letter to the Corinthians, written in response to a serious schism in the Corinthian Church.
  • "There were presbyters who were upended by these young upstarts...this resulted in a schism." (Prof. Van Estrom, 04:15)
• The letter is notable for being an early, clear exercise in papal authority and for showing the connection between apostolic succession and church order.
  • "Pope Benedict says [this letter] is a first act of Roman primacy." (Prof. Van Estrom, 04:40)
  • "It is historically striking that this person in Rome...sees it as his duty to respond to a controversy that's in the East." (Dr. Akers, 05:05)

3. Clement’s Pastoral Tone and Scriptural Approach

• The letter is pastoral rather than condemnatory, urging repentance with examples from the Old Testament.
  • "He encourages people to repentance...and he grounds [it] from the Old Testament." (Prof. Van Estrom, 06:21)
  • "He's off the bat saying, no, we could turn to the Old Testament for actually guidance in this situation." (Dr. Akers, 06:35)
• Clement relies on scriptural imagery and Roman experience, referencing the Roman army as a metaphor for order, but ultimately calls for mutual love and humility in the Church.
  • "It's a call to love and humility. So, yeah, you have to obey. But there has to be this mutual love." (Prof. Van Estrom, 07:34)
  • "He borrows images from Paul, the head and the body." (Prof. Van Estrom, 08:09)

4. Memorable Teaching Images: The Phoenix and Martyrdom

• Clement famously uses the image of the phoenix—drawn from Roman myth—as an illustration of resurrection, in addition to more familiar images like night turning to day and the sprouting seed.
  • "The third one, which is less familiar, is of the Phoenix...and this is image for the incarnation." (Prof. Van Estrom, 09:18)
  • "On top of the palm tree is a phoenix bird...the phoenix has a halo on it...because it's a Christ image." (Dr. Akers, 11:01)
• This "baptizing" of pagan imagery shows the early Church’s creative engagement with its culture and underscores how Clement viewed the continuity of faith and resurrection from death.

5. Apostolic Succession: Clement’s Ecclesial Legacy

• Clement’s letter articulates an early and clear teaching on apostolic succession.
  • "He talks about how...the office doesn’t just go away. It’s actually an office that needs to be filled [by successors]." (Dr. Akers & Prof. Van Estrom, 10:17–10:26)
• The importance of preserving tradition and memorializing martyrs—“we’re carrying the memory...especially the memory of martyrs in imitation of Christ forward into the future from the past.” (Prof. Van Estrom, 10:39)

6. Impact and Reception of Clement’s Letter

• The letter was widely copied and circulated, indicating the high regard in which it was held, even by later Church fathers who sometimes quoted it as Scripture.
  • "This letter itself was extremely popular in the period that followed..." (Prof. Van Estrom, 12:17)
  • "They kept it. They copied it. It spread throughout to other churches as...significant teaching." (Dr. Akers, 12:48)

7. Clement as Liturgist and Pastor

• Clement’s care extended to the liturgical life of the Church. He includes a strikingly beautiful prayer at the close of his letter, which has the ring of a Eucharistic prayer.
  • [Excerpt read aloud, see Memorable Quotes below; 13:54]

Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Apostolic Succession:
  • "It gives you a sense of how the hierarchy of the Church works...but in the question of, like, doctrine and church order and morals, yeah, they turn to Rome." — Prof. Van Estrom (05:45)
• On Pastoral Perspective:
  • "It’s a call to love and humility. So, yeah, you have to obey. But there has to be this mutual love between [everyone]." — Prof. Van Estrom (07:34)
• On the Phoenix as a Christian Symbol:
  • "Some of the churches have these beautiful mosaics in the apse...on top of the palm tree is a phoenix bird...Because it’s a Christ image." — Dr. Akers (11:01)
• Clement’s Prayer (Read Aloud):
  • "You alone are the benefactor of spirits and the God of all flesh...Save those among us who are in distress. Have mercy on the humble. Raise up the fallen. Show yourself to those in need. Heal the sick. Turn back those of your people who wander, feed the hungry, ransom our prisoners, Raise up the weak, comfort the discouraged." — Prof. Van Estrom (13:54)
• On Perspective in Church Struggles:
  • "On the one hand, you have the sick and on the other hand you have the stars and all of creation." — Prof. Van Estrom (15:49)
• On Clement’s Lasting Lesson:
  • "After Christ died, rose, ascended into heaven...something had to happen after the apostles to get us to today...the Holy Spirit has moved step by step...God has worked through these, these really beautiful people to...keep love and humility humility alive." — Prof. Van Estrom (16:44)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Historical Context & Popes after Peter: 00:20–03:20
• Letter to the Corinthians & Papal Authority: 03:24–05:45
• Content and Tone of Clement’s Letter: 06:15–08:15
• Symbolism of the Phoenix & Resurrection: 08:42–11:37
• Apostolic Succession & Liturgical Issues: 10:17–13:00
• Reading of Clement’s Prayer: 13:54–14:55
• Practical Lessons for Today & Clement’s Legacy: 16:44–17:53

Lessons and Relevance for Today

• St. Clement’s example highlights the early Church’s challenges with unity, authority, and pastoral sensitivity.
• He demonstrates how tradition, humility, and love must be at the heart of Church leadership.
• His writings connect early Christian communities with the present, offering a powerful spiritual and historical witness for modern Catholics.
  • "We get these little glimpses from this letter of Clement, of how the church is growing and developing...He uses a little bit of time he has to try to be the pastor and theologian or the help to the Church in need." (Dr. Akers, 17:32)

Feast Day Reminder:
"Pope St. Clement, pray for us." (17:57)