Catholic Saints Podcast: St. Francis de Sales on Prayer (Part II)
Produced by the Augustine Institute | Released: January 27, 2026
Hosts: Dr. Ben Akers and Dr. Christopher Bloom
Episode Overview
This episode is the second in a four-part series on St. Francis de Sales, focusing on his teachings regarding prayer—specifically, the need for attentiveness in one's prayer life. Dr. Ben Akers and Dr. Christopher Bloom dive into the second part of “Introduction to the Devout Life,” uncovering the connection between attention, prayer, spiritual growth, and how to incorporate St. Francis’s insights into today’s busy lives.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. St. Francis de Sales’ Vision of Prayer
- St. Francis synthesizes earlier spiritual masters (notably Teresa of Avila and John of the Cross) into practical teaching.
- Prayer is "talking to God as a friend"—not just speaking, but also listening.
- “Just as Teresa, as la grande Teresa said, prayer is talking to God as a friend. …It’s a question of talking for sure, but also listening to God.” – Dr. Bloom [01:34]
- St. Francis uses vivid, natural images for prayer (e.g., living waters, shade under a tree) to help believers relate.
2. The Importance of Attentiveness
- Prayer is about focusing attention:
- “Prayer places our understanding in the brightness of divine light and exposes our will to the warmth of heavenly love.” – Dr. Bloom quoting St. Francis [03:13]
- Distinction between study and prayer:
- “Prayer is much more like the exercise of friendship. …What do friends do? They want to have a conversation…” – Dr. Bloom & Dr. Akers [04:10]
- Being truly present with God mirrors being truly present with a friend.
Notable Quote
- “In a conversation with a friend, you’re at the very least thinking about the friend…When you turn that into a conversation with God…your intellect is turned towards what is most luminous, and your will, your heart is turned towards what is most lovable.” – Dr. Bloom [04:16]
3. The Challenge of Distraction and the “Human Condition”
- Distraction is not new to modern times—it’s a perennial human issue.
- Created things constantly demand our attention, requiring a deliberate return to God.
- “That created things draw us to themselves…we have to, in some sense, work to bring our attention back to the God we cannot see.” – Dr. Bloom [05:29]
4. Time and Place for Prayer
- St. Francis recommends starting the day with prayer; this still applies today, even if busy.
- Advice for modern listeners:
- Quiet time in the morning—even if brief—is key; avoid using phones as alarm clocks to create sacred space.
- Find a room, chapel, or place where you can be alone without causing hardship to others.
- Sacrifice may be required; example shared about adjusting sleep schedules or shared parenting to prioritize prayer.
- “It is a sacrifice. …But for her and for me…it’s worth it.” – Dr. Akers [08:31]
Memorable Moment
- Dr. Akers describes his wife’s practice: waking before their early-rising children to have quiet prayer time as a real sacrifice and example of prioritizing prayer. [08:11–08:40]
5. Establishing Patterns (“Rules” or Methods) for Prayer
- St. Francis advocates for a method: Begin every prayer by invoking God’s presence.
- Dr. Akers expresses modern skepticism about "rules" for prayer, but Dr. Bloom clarifies:
- “These elemental forms of politeness…are rules, if you will. There’s a kind of universality of practice…” – Dr. Bloom [10:37]
- Having structure is akin to training wheels or scaffolding, aiding habit formation until prayer becomes second nature.
- “The method…keeps you from falling over. They don’t actually get you riding the bike. …Once you have a habit of prayer, you know you’re going to be doing those things.” – Dr. Bloom [11:51–13:17]
6. Immediacy and Accessibility of Prayer
- Don’t wait for perfect circumstances or advanced direction—begin praying now.
- St. Francis: Even lacking a spiritual director, you can start to pray right away.
- “He’s not gonna waste any time to teach prayer, right? ...Right now you can start praying.” – Dr. Akers [13:45]
7. Praying Like Christ—Becoming Christlike
- Immersing oneself in Christ’s life and words through meditation transforms the believer.
- “If you contemplate Him frequently in meditation, your whole soul will be filled with Him. …You will grow in his likeness, and your actions will be modeled on his.” – St. Francis via Dr. Bloom [13:47–15:10]
- Children learn to speak by imitation—the Christian learns to live and pray by imitating Christ.
Notable Quote
- “If we cleave to the Savior in meditation…we shall learn in time through his grace to speak, act, and will like Himself.” – Dr. Bloom quoting St. Francis [13:47]
8. Imaginative Prayer with the Gospels
- Use imagination to place oneself in Scripture scenes, engaging more deeply.
- This method keeps the mind focused but must be guided by the intent to learn and respond to Christ, not just to mentally “run a movie.”
- “We put ourselves in that situation…we’re not supposed to just run the movie in our mind, right. We’re supposed to think about, okay, what’s the lesson here? What is the Lord saying to her? What is He saying to me?” – Dr. Bloom [17:38]
Memorable Moment
- Discussing becoming different Gospel characters depending on the day:
- “There’s some days when we’re Zacchaeus…I just need to see Jesus…I’m going to climb that tree. …Some days when we’re Martha, troubled about many things, and we need to be reminded of the thing that’s most needful…” – Dr. Bloom [15:46]
Timestamps of Key Segments
- Introduction to the episode & context – [00:22]
- St. Francis de Sales' concept of prayer – [01:34]
- Images of prayer and connection to the Psalms – [02:16]
- Prayer as attentiveness / friendship – [03:13–04:54]
- Challenges of distraction & modern busy life – [05:15–07:00]
- Sacrifice, family life, and establishing time for prayer – [08:11–09:29]
- Rules/methods in prayer—training wheels analogy – [10:14–13:17]
- Prayer as imitation of Christ—becoming Christlike – [13:45–15:21]
- Imaginative, Gospel-based prayer – [16:32–18:03]
Tone & Style
The conversation is encouraging, warm, and practical, with honest acknowledgment of modern obstacles to prayer. Both hosts are deeply rooted in the lived realities of lay Catholics, bridging St. Francis de Sales’ spiritual wisdom with today's family and technological challenges.
Memorable Quotes
- “Prayer is much more like the exercise of friendship...it is, in fact, the exercise of friendship.” – Dr. Bloom [03:13]
- “These good things can’t be as important as God. 365 days of the year…” – Dr. Bloom [08:40]
- “If you contemplate Him frequently in meditation, your whole soul will be filled with Him. …You will grow in his likeness, and your actions will be modeled on his.” – Dr. Bloom [13:47]
- “Children learn to speak by hearing their mother talk and stammering forth their childish sounds in imitation. …If we cleave to the Savior in meditation, listening to his words…we shall learn in time through his grace to speak, act, and will like Himself.” – Dr. Bloom [13:47–14:37]
- “If we focus on Christ, if we keep our eyes on Christ, we’re going to start to look at him, for example, but also think like Him in approaching the world.” – Dr. Akers [15:22]
Conclusion
This episode presents an accessible, deeply practical guide to prayer according to St. Francis de Sales. Through lively dialogue, the hosts encourage listeners to cultivate attentiveness in prayer, prioritize time with God, and use structure or method as support—emphasizing that the goal is always transformation in Christ. They remind us that, whatever our stage in the spiritual life, we can—starting today—grow richer in friendship with God through attentive, imaginative, consistent prayer.
Next episode topics: Sincerity and bravery in the Christian life.