← Catholic Saints
Catholic Saints
St. Joan of Arc
00:39:38
Learn about the remarkable story of St. Joan of Arc with Paul McCusker, author of the Augustine Institute Radio Theatre audio drama "The Victory of Joan of Arc", and Dr. Ben Akers on this episode of Catholic Saints!
Loading summary
Transcript116 lines
- [00:02]
Host
You're listening to a podcast on Catholic Saints. This podcast is produced by the Augustine Institute, an apostolate helping Catholics understand, live, and share their faith.
- [00:19]
Dr. Ben Akers
Hello. Welcome to a special edition of Catholic Saints. My name is Dr. Ben Akers. I'm the Chief Content Officer here at the Augustine Institute, and my guest today is Paul McCusker, resident storyteller. And we're celebrating the release of a new CD set that we have of the most recent audio drama that we've done, the Victory of Joan of Arc. So Catholic Saints is where we have a conversation with a professor now, with our resident scholars, or the one who tells the stories of the saints who. Heroes and heroines of the Catholic faith that celebrate the virtues of faith, hope, charity, and fortitude in a particular way. I think with Joan of Arc, it's a special edition because we usually talk about the story of the saints, and I want to talk about her life and how it comes out in the telling of the story. But I also want to unbox this special CD sets and find out these extra resources that we have here. So if you're following along, Catholic Saints is a podcast that the Augusta Institute releases weekly. Again, special edition. Victory of Joan of Arc. So what are some. Can we give a broad stroke of the life of Joan of Arc? She's probably one of the most mysterious saints that we have in our calendar. We have so many great saints, though.
- [01:30]
Paul McCusker
Well, we do, but she's unusual, especially in the context of where she appeared historically. But the whole thing, I mean, so many of the saints I find a bit crazy anyway, you know, Francis. And some of them just don't fit neatly. They do what they do almost in defiance of their times. So with Joan here, you have a.
- [01:51]
Dr. Ben Akers
Girl, peasant girl, raised in 15th century.
- [01:55]
Paul McCusker
Yeah. So we're in the 1400s, early 1400s. She is part of a. Part of France because France was completely polarized. So just to give context of what she grew up with. So you have. The English were constantly invading France and trying to take over. They laid claim to it.
- [02:17]
Dr. Ben Akers
This is part of the Hundred Years War, if I remember correctly. Okay, so it's a long war.
- [02:20]
Paul McCusker
Yeah, and it's long. And Henry V, people know him from Shakespeare, comes in the Battle of Agincourt, which was a huge turning point, by the way, to French sensibilities. That loss so confounded them that they actually thought maybe it was a punishment from God. So spiritually, you have this dynamic going on, not only with the English very much present in their country, but then you had sort of on the northern end, the Duke of Burgundy. And he was pro whatever would work for him. So he would be pro English if it served him side with the French, his own people, if it would serve them whatever would serve him best. And then she came from the part of the country that was more. Less pro French by itself and not overrun necessarily by the English. But she grew up with a lot of sort of renegade troops coming and going. So her town, Domremy, was in the middle of this area. So she was well acquainted to the battles and to the conflicts of the country. But when she was 12, she began to. And it sounds crazy, but she began to hear, essentially, voices. But she knew immediately, her sense was that there was something divine here. And she began to discern. I think she spoke with her priest about, what is this? What are they telling me to do? And essentially the calling came down to, you are going to lead the French to victory and have the dauphin, who was the prince, though, disavowed. Prince Charles. You are going to have him crowned in the cathedral where he should be crowned. And so this was her call. She's 18 years old.
- [04:08]
Dr. Ben Akers
Yeah.
- [04:08]
Paul McCusker
So the voices came at 12. They began to prep her, sort of like, hey, we have something we want you to do, and then gently moving her in. And she was very holy. I mean, she was a normal girl in a lot of ways, but she went to mass whenever she could. She engaged in the sacraments, confession, all of them she would do. But then by the time she got to 17, then she began to get directives. And the directive was, you need to present yourself to the court and tell them you're there to lead them to victory, basically, and have Charles crowned king properly.
- [04:43]
Dr. Ben Akers
That's an amazing story. And if I remember correctly, there are certain saints that were telling. Were the voices.
- [04:49]
Paul McCusker
Yeah. St. Catherine de Ferbois. I'm saying that probably wrong. And St. Margaret, and then eventually St. Michael himself, also part of the equation.
- [05:00]
Dr. Ben Akers
Okay, so she's 12, getting prepped. I think I remember reading that she had a marriage proposal even one time. Yeah.
- [05:05]
Paul McCusker
There was a point where there was.
- [05:07]
Dr. Ben Akers
Her dad wanted to live like a normal life. And she's not like. I'm convinced she was committed to purity, committed to a life of chastity for the mission of what the Lord was calling her to do. So she runs away from home.
- [05:20]
Paul McCusker
Yes.
- [05:20]
Dr. Ben Akers
Right. Escapes or runs away from her uncle, is it? If I remember correctly, it's like her uncle that takes her to the next town over, helps her.
- [05:27]
Paul McCusker
Yeah. Meet with Sir Robert Boudrecourt. And Valkalor. And it was like that was the first stop. But the thing is, is he sent her home. So they had this tug of war where she'd show up and say, here's my mission. I'm here to tell you you need to get me an introduction to the court, you know, to meet Charles and tell him what I'm here to do. And he was like, go home. You know, just. Don't be ridiculous. Go home. So she goes home and then she comes back again. I mean, there was this sort of back and forth. She was tenacious. And then politically, it just became very strange. I mean, he began to wonder, well, maybe she is, maybe she isn't. What am I going to do with her? She won't leave me alone. Well, what ran interference was the siege of Orleans. So there's this vital town that the English came in and basically laid siege to. It's walled city. And they encamp around.
- [06:24]
Dr. Ben Akers
It's like a key spot in like the north.
- [06:26]
Paul McCusker
Oh, yeah. Where the rivers meet. And technically, because the Duke of Orleans was one of their prisoners in England, and generally you're not allowed to raid the town of a prisoner while you're negotiating for ransom or whatever. Well, he'd been over there for years, and the. The commanders in the English army basically said, we need this town. And they went in. They couldn't capture it completely, so they laid siege to it. And around this time, some of the stories about Joan was that she had a vision. She was told that it happened, and there was no way she could have known. So when she went back to Boudrecourt, it was basically to prove my mission. I am going to free that town, but you have to let me. I have to meet the dauphin and then I've got to free the town. And they still wrestled over whether to believe her or not. I mean, she's 18 years old, wasn't there?
- [07:22]
Dr. Ben Akers
There was also a prophecy at the time that was kind of popular, that the kingdom had been given away by a woman, the dauphin's mother, who disavowed him as kind of the rightful heir. And yet a virgin would save France. Yes, something along those lines, yes.
- [07:36]
Paul McCusker
And there were those who. Because as I said with Agincourt and the. The loss there a few years before, there was a spiritual dynamic going on. People, you need to repent, you need to re. Engage with the sacraments, you need to do all kinds of things. And that was one of the prophecies. So she shows up and says she never claimed to be the one to Fulfill the prophecy, which I think would have been immodest for her in many ways. Her humility, I don't think would have allowed her. All she did was follow the voice. The voices and do what they were telling her to do. And so ultimately, she got to meet the dauphin.
- [08:14]
Dr. Ben Akers
So she meets Charles vii, who becomes Charles vii. And does he immediately believe her or is he skeptical?
- [08:22]
Paul McCusker
Well, it's one of those things. And again, the stories are interesting because they try. By the way, her story is one of the most chronicled at that point in history because of her trials later on. They were the.
- [08:37]
Dr. Ben Akers
So even at the time that she's living.
- [08:39]
Paul McCusker
Yes, They're.
- [08:40]
Dr. Ben Akers
They're writing down the trials.
- [08:42]
Paul McCusker
There were two. Two trials. One was while she was alive because the English was determined to have her burned as a witch. And then years later, the cause was championed to revisit and to have her sort of undeclared as a witch, to basically look again. And by the time that happened, you still had a lot of living witnesses who could give testimony. So they had the first testim where she told the truth. So we can piece together a lot about her life from that and then pick up more of the pieces later. So when she showed up, the dauphin was skeptical. Everyone in his court.
- [09:21]
Dr. Ben Akers
How could you not be nature? I'm the one that's going to help crown you as king someday.
- [09:27]
Paul McCusker
And she was naive enough. She just couldn't understand why they didn't immediately embrace her and say, okay, let's do this. What they wound up doing was putting her through a lot of tests. But there were stories that when she met him, they pulled a trick on her. They tried to. When she entered the chambers, and they had this big crowd, and they put someone else on the throne. And Charles, who she had never seen. It's not like that pictures around or anything. She came in and they said, he's over there. You can go talk to him. And she said, that's not him. And she's looking around. And then she found him in the crowd.
- [10:03]
Dr. Ben Akers
That's amazing. That's like a classic plot now in movies.
- [10:06]
Paul McCusker
Oh, you do that.
- [10:07]
Dr. Ben Akers
Do that. Where they kind of switch.
- [10:08]
Paul McCusker
Well, even further to go. The next step is that she then had a private conference with him, where she then proceeded to tell him some things that only God knew. And that was the test. She said, no one else knows what I'm about to tell you, only because you were saying it in prayer to God alone. Wow. And so she proceeds to spell out to him what he had prayed to God and a lot of those prayers were very humble. So he had a lot of problems, but there was a degree of humility, especially in his relationship with God that emerged as I was trying to tell this story. So I wanted to be careful how we handled it because he's too easily played either as indecisive idiot or he's played in a cynical direction. Whereas I don't think he was all of either one of those scenarios. So he got to the point where he believed her enough, but then still put her through a lot of tests, you know, to check to make sure that she was put. Put her in the hands of women who examined her and the men in the royal court who all had their own agendas, were also watching over her. And then finally he actually gave her what she needed by way of commanders army. Go to Orland. You can prove what it is that God's telling you to do based on what happens in Orleans.
- [11:35]
Dr. Ben Akers
One of the things I love about her spirit, the single mindedness, the single heartedness, the choleric temperament as she goes to Orlean, as she sends a letter saying, okay, we're here, we're going to take this over and we'll let you live if you go back to England. Yes, the boldness of just surrendering.
- [11:53]
Paul McCusker
But she did that every time. That's the thing. Every battle, just about every battle she went into, she gave them a chance to leave and she would say. And they of course mocked her, scoffed at her, called her names. She went out on the bridge outside of Orleans once she got there and they had this stronghold and she went out on the bridge where they could have easily shot her and she's yelling at them, you have every chance. God is telling you to leave, save your lives now. And they are calling her names. They're being. And she's bewildered by the fact that they're calling her these names. There's the sweetness to her that even in the toughness kept showing up. And there are other scenes where she was very much an 18 year old.
- [12:34]
Dr. Ben Akers
Yeah, she's just a young woman.
- [12:35]
Paul McCusker
She just would have temper tantrums. She would get annoyed because they wouldn't tell her things. And that's one of the things that I loved about her, her humanity alongside the obedience. Because so much like these other saints whose stories we've told, it's the obedience, the reckless. Yes. Yeah. That they said yes to God and come what may, they were going to do whatever God told them to do. And she was no exception. She stayed on task and the story.
- [13:08]
Dr. Ben Akers
Doesn'T go in her favor in the end. I mean, her eternal favor. She's going to declare her a saint, but, you know, she wins the Battle of Orleans, but later battles are not.
- [13:18]
Paul McCusker
Yeah, well, what she does is she. They. They make their way. So they concede to the crowning in Rhones, where the cathedral was, where the kings were traditionally crowned. So they agree she wins, then she has to win these towns along the way, get their allegiance. So they're having these skirmishes all the way up to the cathedral, then he is properly crowned. It's an amazing moment. And she was there with him when he was crowned, not just in the audience, because the prince acknowledged that he wouldn't be there except for her. But this is where some would argue whether or not she overstepped her bounds or what was at play, except you still had people with their own agendas who then began to use her. It's like, well, we can use her as a PR person. You know, she's a good representation if we can get her on our side, whatever. So. And then part of that was going after Paris to try to drive the English out of Paris. And as they move north now, they're in dangerous territory, territory. And with that, everything became. Everything was up for grabs. I mean, she was being used in political senses. The dauphin, sometimes he was erring in the direction of peace, naively, because then he went into peace treaties and he said, look, you can't be attacking anybody or doing anything while the treaty's on. And they kept saying, the treaty is a stall tactic for them to build up their forces so they can overrun you. Well, she was ultimately captured. I think it was north of Paris. And there's a big debate, too, about how she was captured, whether that might have been a setup or whether it was just the circumstances. But she had been warned. She had been warned multiple times by her voices that you have two, maybe three years, but she wasn't quite sure if that meant two to three years to fulfill the mission or. Or to death. And then she became increasingly of a mind that this was going to ultimately lead to her death. And they kept saying, you need to yield, as Jesus did. You need to kind of accept what's thrown at you. And so she was then captured, taken in, in violation of all the codes at the time, where normally you capture somebody and then ransom them. They never held her up for ransom. The English basically said, no, you're ours. We're going to keep you, and you will burden at the stake.
- [15:48]
Dr. Ben Akers
And Charles VII didn't really come to her defense.
- [15:51]
Paul McCusker
No, no, Nobody came from her ultimately. I mean, they moved her around so they couldn't. But where you're going with that is. Right. I mean, the loneliness for her.
- [16:02]
Dr. Ben Akers
Exactly. And the trial is just some. Is a testament to just the abuse she went through with. Oh, yeah, just the. These learned men, theologians, bishops, cardinals, you know, pressuring her to try to recant, to say she made it all up, and just her firmness of will. Amazing. And this is. Thank you for sharing that. I didn't know that we had so much recorded about her, about the trial. But right before I came down, I looked at the catechism, because I like to check to see. Oh, does the catechism use these quotes? A saint in a particular way? She's quoted four. Her words are used four times in the catechism, which is a lot for a saint. And they all come from the trial and the acts of Joan of Arc.
- [16:42]
Paul McCusker
She was amazing to stand her ground, because at various points, and she did despair at various times. And this is, again, what I love about her humanity, was that there were times when she fell into degrees of despair. And she's 18 years old, 19 years old, and you can understand how they're hammering her day in and day out. They're depriving her of food. The most precious thing to her were the sacraments. She was begging for the Eucharist, she was begging for confession. And that's how they tried to manipulate her by withholding them. They would say, well, no, no, or. Or if we do, will you concede to this? And they kept trying to play her in that direction, but she caught it. She knew what they were trying to do, and yet her desire was for the sacraments. And it's interesting because of the documentation, and this kind of goes into the drama that. Because we have, like, three different directions of documentation about her. That's what I used in the drama. There are three story approaches, not just one. And one was that at the time, almost every major town had a chronicler, somebody who was saying, today in Paris, this happened, and somebody tried to raid us, or we were attacked by whoever. And I decided to use that as one of our narrators, a character I made up named Mouchard. So he's the one who talks about what's going on in the present tense. And then because of the transcripts from the trial, I also created another character named the interviewer, who then talks to the witnesses, past tense. What were you thinking? What were you feeling? Give us some more of the behind the scenes, looking back on it. And then, of course, we have the drama in scene. It's not all narrated. It's mostly acted in scene with her, with the characters around her and everything that happened.
- [18:34]
Dr. Ben Akers
One of the things I was struck by listening was my ear is not as attuned to French names as others might be. But one of the things you know, as the. All the different trials and all the different voices you bring in, there is a clear kind of call, clear voice ringing out of Joan. Joan is just always the same, and her voice is always discernible.
- [18:58]
Paul McCusker
Yes, well, and that was on purpose. I mean, one of the things that we were aware of is that she was surrounded by a lot of male voices, names that I didn't expect the audience to remember. There are key people that you get because of the number of scenes they're in, and you may recognize their voice. I hope you do. But the important thing that I wanted was that Joan's voice is singular in this cacophony of voices around her. The prince, his court, the army, the army commanders, they don't all believe in her. So they're all saying, this is how we're going to do it. And she's saying, no, no, we're not going to do it that way. You need to do it this way. And it confounded them that she was often right. But you're right, that was intentional, that her voice almost singularly works through the entire drama around all these other voices that should be dominating her and then they don't.
- [19:54]
Dr. Ben Akers
And she's the clear one. And that reminds me of a phrase that we use for some other saints. Athanasius, contra mundum. Athanasius against the world is, you know, Jean, Jean, Jean against the world. Contramundum. How did you pick Joan of Arc? Because so we have. If you're not familiar, if you're tuning in for the first time, Paul is an incredible storyteller in. You know, we'll talk about some of your written works, but the audio Dramas of St Francis of Assisi, St Cecilia, Robin Hood, St Patrick, one of my.
- [20:25]
Paul McCusker
Favorites, Robin Hood not being a saint.
- [20:27]
Dr. Ben Akers
Saint Robin Hood is causes upcoming. But Joan of Arc, you know, because it takes so much effort and research on your part, and then the resources we put at the Augusta Institute and generous donors that helped put these on. How did you pick Joan out of all the saints?
- [20:39]
Paul McCusker
Well, she was on the wish list from the start. When we said, oh, we're going to do saint stories, it was sort of a wish list of, well, where do we begin? And Dr. Tim Gray said, well, I think we should start with Frances. And then Patrick seemed like the obvious next one. The less obvious one was Cecilia, because not as many people know her, but we chose her because of the artistic angle. She's this muse of music. And we said, well, each one seems to be looking at the saints from different angles, so let's do Cecilia. And then we did Robin Hood, which was mostly just to give the family something that's high adventure. But with Robin Hood, what I did. And the whole intention was to restore the Catholicism to his story, because the earliest stories always portrayed Robin as a faithful Catholic. And so he said, I want to restore that, because Hollywood has stripped that out. Most people don't realize that's true for him. And then post Covid, we said, okay, who next? And Joan of Arc, because of who she is, I mean, she was so remarkable, and the story was so remarkable. The challenge was going to be how do you capture the story and an audio drama, make it discernible, but with the battle scenes and with the political machinations going on around her and everything, it was a great challenge. I used a dozen different books to help me piece.
- [22:07]
Dr. Ben Akers
I guess that audience is probably gonna ask, did you use Mark Twain? Because he's a famous, Famous text about her.
- [22:12]
Paul McCusker
Yeah. And Mark Twain was amazing because you understand with later books that you have, you have. You can Google things. You know, you can do digital research. Mark Twain actually went to France. He went. Did you research? Oh, his research was exhaustive. So his is a good chronicle. And I did use it. I referenced it among the others, just to try to piece it together. Because there's so much to her story. It's hard to narrow down how to maintain a dramatic through line without it sounding like a documentary. It's a drama first and foremost. And that's what we had worked on.
- [22:48]
Dr. Ben Akers
Well, okay, so we're looking at the drawing and unbox this on set. This is the victory of Joan of Arc. So we sell these. So we've released this. You might have heard it digitally. And it was available digitally on the feast day.
- [23:02]
Paul McCusker
At the end of the day, we put it on all these platforms.
- [23:04]
Dr. Ben Akers
Yes, put it on these platforms. Because we really wanted to get the story out about Joan. You can listen to it on the Amen app. I encourage you to do that. It's a free app that we have at the Augusta Institute, and you can listen to her story, Joan of Arc, right now. We're filming this in October, and So we have St. Francis of Assisi up as well on the Amen app. So not only did you digitally, but why would we make a CD set? Well, some cars don't even have. My car is old enough to have a cd.
- [23:30]
Paul McCusker
And I think there are a lot of people who still use CDs, and they're not ancient like I am. They are my family, guys at home.
- [23:39]
Dr. Ben Akers
We bought a CD player so the kids could listen to CDs.
- [23:41]
Paul McCusker
And there are realities. There are certain realities with digital. When it comes to streaming, when it comes to Bluetooth, the technology doesn't always work. And we find that families tend to listen to this on the road. You may have gaps in your signal, whatever it may be. So by whatever means you do that, if you load it into your phone, you know, or however it is that you do, so you can plug in and play. But I'm. I'm a fan, because when you. When you. When you do this. So we have beautiful artwork digitally.
- [24:09]
Dr. Ben Akers
What is this? What are we looking at with this?
- [24:11]
Paul McCusker
So our team. Our team and our art always tries to be evocative. So we have the banner that she created, that the voices told her to create. And you, of course, have her sword.
- [24:23]
Dr. Ben Akers
Yeah, with Christ as. As king.
- [24:25]
Paul McCusker
And the sword is part of the story, because one of the little miracles you could call it was that one of the voices said, go into battle with my sword. It was St. Catherine. And they went, we don't know where her sword is. And she said, oh, it's at this church. And they went. And they found. It was buried. Yeah, it was buried at the church. And no one knew it was there. So they went, oh, so this is the miracle. So we have that. Of course, we have her against, you see, the oncoming army. And it's just trying to evoke the reality of her at prayer. Her, of course, with the cut hair, the short hair. Yep. And wearing a soldier's uniform, which was in many ways scandalous at the time. In fact, the trial, they kept bringing it up.
- [25:08]
Dr. Ben Akers
That's right. It was like, almost the final thing. They convicted her of some biblical dressing.
- [25:13]
Paul McCusker
Dressing up in a soldier's uniform. In fact, one of my favorite lines from her was, they went to her and they finally said, look, if we'll get. We'll let you have the sacraments. If you put on a dress, what is it that you'll do? Or she finally just said, all right, I'll put on the dress if you let me wear it back to my home. No, that's not.
- [25:36]
Dr. Ben Akers
We're not letting you Escape.
- [25:37]
Paul McCusker
So. And what I love about these, the packaging is of course we get to show some of the actors. In fact, once you move inside, we have great art all the way through. But the thing that we keep in mind is that we're trying to do this for families. And so of course, on the inside we have our. All of our discs, five discs. So that's the drama, but one of the things. And then of course, more of the actors, because we had 50, I think we had 58 actors in this production.
- [26:06]
Dr. Ben Akers
This young woman, Heather Forster, who almost looks like her, I just say with the short hair, she looks like a young gentleman.
- [26:12]
Paul McCusker
Heather, considering the fact that Joan, as you said, is the voice that you hear through the whole thing. Heather had to do that. And she's new. She is roughly the age of Joan. I think she's around 20, 21, 22. Sounds young, but she came in and played it to perfection. I mean, she hit all of the right notes. Emotionally. She was amazing. We have Harry Lloyd, some would know her. Fenty Williams, who is Judi Dench's daughter, by the way. Chris Larkin. If you look at the pictures, there are a lot of the actors, of course, that the British will know and Americans will know because they've seen them in something, but they can't always think of what it might be.
- [26:53]
Dr. Ben Akers
That's interesting because one of the things that you've done with these audio dramas is you go to England to record because they have a great rich history of audio drama.
- [27:02]
Paul McCusker
Yeah, acting with the voice is very different from on screen acting. And a lot of on screen actors, if you just strip out everything except their voice, they don't play very well.
- [27:13]
Dr. Ben Akers
So there's explosions in the background, whatever.
- [27:16]
Paul McCusker
I mean, they just. There was a production we were going to do and we almost had Peter o' Toole come in to do it and he actually admitted, I am a screen actor, I'm not a voice actor. It would be a big mistake for me to come in. I would not be able to deliver what you need. And that was very humble and honest because there are a lot of actors who can't and think they can. We go to London because it's still part of their discipline, it's part of what they're taught, taught. And so we know that we're going to get actors who know how to put you into the character in the scene. Now one of the things and all this information is in here, what happens with the books is because we're family minded, we give sort of a booklet that has an introduction so I can introduce her life. And the idea behind the audio drama itself. We did a timeline.
- [28:07]
Dr. Ben Akers
That's helpful.
- [28:08]
Paul McCusker
A full timeline of her life and everything that happened, the unfolding events, pictures. We have pictures of some of the places and settings, including the picture of her that was scribbled onto.
- [28:21]
Dr. Ben Akers
You were telling me about this. I'd never heard of this before.
- [28:23]
Paul McCusker
No, there, there is a drawing of her that if you go to her trial notes, one of the scribes did a little drawing of her and it's the earliest drawing we have of her at all today. Yeah, they were doodling basically and. But a big part of this we have a map so you can figure out who the players are and what's going on. And then we get into discussion, questions.
- [28:45]
Dr. Ben Akers
This is very helpful.
- [28:46]
Paul McCusker
This is huge to me.
- [28:47]
Dr. Ben Akers
So you listen to a cd. Would you recommend doing the questions before or after the cd?
- [28:52]
Paul McCusker
Well, I would say after because the questions reference the cd and so it's episode by episode. And each CD has, I think, two episodes on it. And the idea then is families can unpack aspects of the story not just factually, but in terms of her spiritual life, their own spiritual lives. How do you react? What do you think? Was she right? Was she wrong? You know, bring up questions for discussion. Because our experience with doing a lot of audio dramas and in my experience is there's something about the audio dramas that will open kids up to talk in ways that they just normally wouldn't. It draws something out so that if you ask questions, they actually will answer. It's not like a pop quiz at school. It really does become family discussion and a chance for parental catechism to talk about what we believe, why we believe it, why, how did this fit in? What we believe is Catholic.
- [29:50]
Dr. Ben Akers
And that's why we love what we do here at the Augustine Institute is we're not just entertaining you with great inspiring stories about saints, but we're also giving you resources. We're equipping you as parents, as teachers of the faith to allow that information that's being communicated to embed more deeply into your kids lives. So I love the fact that you put these and the other programs that we have and CDs also have these discussions.
- [30:13]
Paul McCusker
Yes, everyone that we've done here has one of these inside. We've made sure that it does. And that's the thing. I mean the convenience of digital is that it is convenient. But what you often miss is, is the artwork is this. I mean, I believe ultimately we may post this in PDF form somewhere. But with a lot of the platforms, it's not easy to distribute that they'd have to come to us. Finding it's hard. And most people wouldn't even bother even if they know it exists. It's just one of those things you're not thinking about when you're streaming somewhere. So when you get the package, it's sort of a great present. It's a great Christmas present. It's something tangible that you open and touch and experience as opposed to here's a code to look to listen to it on some platform somewhere.
- [31:00]
Dr. Ben Akers
No. And what I love about it is it's something you can pick up, you can touch. It reminds you like, oh, yeah, I do want to finish that versus, like something on an app. You just, you know, sometimes you forget. Sometimes you forget. Now, this is not the only. The only time or the first time that you told the story of Joan of Arc. You've also told her story in writing as well.
- [31:16]
Paul McCusker
Yes. In fact, it's. It's might be the first time in my career that it's happened. And because of COVID and everything, this got delayed and we didn't really know when we were going to be able to do it again. Not only from our decision making, but England was in lockdown. Getting to the actors was going to be a problem. And so we have this series, it's part of the Hope Springs universe we've created called the Virtue Chronicles. And it's funny because the first one ties into the Robin Hood drama that we did. You don't have to listen to it to read the book or vice versa. But actually, if you do read the book and listen there, you put some Easter eggs in there, plug some pieces. Yeah. There's some things that overlap. And this is. It's a time travel series, basically.
- [32:03]
Dr. Ben Akers
And for middle school.
- [32:04]
Paul McCusker
Yeah. So this would be. Yeah. More into the 1011 upwards from there. And so two characters, Andrew and Eve, time travel, so they go back to Robin Hood. And then in the second book, Warrior, they go to Joan of Arc.
- [32:22]
Dr. Ben Akers
Okay.
- [32:22]
Paul McCusker
So the research that I did for this book, actually, I was naive, I thought, because I researched this and then after that had written the third book, which is about Edmund Campion and, And the British martyrs, I thought, oh, when we go into the audio drama, well, that should be easy. I'll just remember and look at all my notes and do it again. But audio drama is completely different. And the dynamic of two kids interacting with her in this reality is completely different. So I almost had to start from scratch in order to do the audio.
- [32:53]
Dr. Ben Akers
Drama, well, they'd be a great compliment. So if someone wanted to make a saint, Joan of Arc, Christmas present, if you have the young reader, the warrior maiden, and then as a family to listen to Joan of Arc, what would be the audience who'd say of Joan of Arc? Would you think it's something families could listen to?
- [33:07]
Paul McCusker
Well, they can't fooling me because we usually say just by default because of the material, you know, parents should be cautious for anyone under 11 or 12 years old maybe. But what we keep hearing is that whole families are listening. They've got five year olds listening, six, seven. And we're not getting letters from anyone who is traumatized. I'm very careful, by the way, for anything that gets into a degree of personal violence. I handled her death very carefully. Again, we're not out to traumatize anyone. And with all of them it's the same though Francis and Patrick actually did not die as martyrs, but Cecilia did. And of course she did. And we're very careful how we do it. So that I always err on the side that younger listeners may be part of the equation. And so I want to tell the story in the best way I can. But just be mindful that there might be younger ears either listening actively or eavesdropping, as the case may be.
- [34:16]
Dr. Ben Akers
So Joan of Arc Is her story 600 years old?
- [34:20]
Paul McCusker
Yes.
- [34:20]
Dr. Ben Akers
It's amazing.
- [34:21]
Paul McCusker
Yeah.
- [34:22]
Dr. Ben Akers
600 years old, but yet she still captivates our imagination.
- [34:25]
Paul McCusker
Yes.
- [34:25]
Dr. Ben Akers
Why do you think that is the case?
- [34:27]
Paul McCusker
Well, I think it's because with heroes and heroines, we do tend to project ourselves into them. I mean, we're interested in the heroes and heroines and characters and stories that touch us in some way. We either see ourselves there as we are or as we wish to be. Her situation was remarkable because she was living in a polarized country, if that sounds familiar, completely polarized. And she was called to stand for the faith and not just stand for it as a defense of it, but to actually move into the situation, to be part of the solution and come what may. This is what I keep going back to. She did not know the end, none of us know the end, but she said yes and she said yes and she stayed with it. And so for me, that's it. And I would add to that for younger listeners because very often we feel detached from the saints, especially if you're younger, you're thinking, oh, it's some old guy, some old woman, somebody that's nothing like me. This girl was like just about any 18 year old girl you would know. And yet she answered God's call. She went into the situation and she stayed faithful to the end. And not unrealistically, she did it realistically in the sense that she wasn't perfect. Because I find that most of the saints aren't that they have foibles, they have things that are very unique personalities.
- [35:59]
Dr. Ben Akers
Yeah, yeah.
- [36:00]
Paul McCusker
And that was her all the way through.
- [36:03]
Dr. Ben Akers
Thank you, Paul, for making this incredible gift. I know that my family has enjoyed listening to the stories that you tell. Anything else that you'd like to have for our viewers or listeners?
- [36:14]
Paul McCusker
Well, there is a trailer out there, by the way. I think that's great. People can look for the trailer.
- [36:19]
Dr. Ben Akers
We'll put the trailer here so you can can listen to that and get a sneak peek at Joan of Arc. You can. You can find Victory of Joan of Arc. You can go to Catholic Market if you'd like to buy it. Along with other resources that we have by Paul, including the Virtue Chronicles and Hope Springs is a younger one.
- [36:37]
Paul McCusker
Yeah, the first reader series, the Adventures of Nick and Sam. There are nine books in that and.
- [36:42]
Dr. Ben Akers
That'S for the younger.
- [36:43]
Paul McCusker
Yeah, that would be more the first reader, depending on, you know, where they are. As a first reader that could be six, seven years old, all the way up to eight, nine, ten. I try to write them. So hopefully, whether you're a first reader or not, it's still.
- [36:57]
Dr. Ben Akers
Well, even if you're a first reader, you have the parents that are reading with that first reader, so we get to enjoy the books as well. Thank you, Paul. And check out the trailer to the Victory of Joan of Arc.
- [37:11]
Jeanne
This is what I know from the voices that guide me. I will break the siege of Orleans. I will lead the dauphin to France for his coronation.
- [37:23]
Paul McCusker
Jeanne, have the voices told you anything.
- [37:26]
Jeanne
Else about your future? What is your name? In my town, they call me Jeanette. Since I came to central France, I have been called Jeanne. Jeanne, how did God call you to be his messenger. He has been speaking to me through his saints since I was 13. Open the gate, mate. I beg you, do not go out there.
- [38:08]
Paul McCusker
It is an open field.
- [38:09]
Jeanne
You may come with me or not, but I am going. We are not dealing with a mere girl. The battle was lost until she arrived.
- [38:22]
Paul McCusker
I have seen nothing like it in all my years.
- [38:32]
Jeanne
In God's name, we must go against.
- [38:34]
Paul McCusker
The English men at arms. Protect the maiden.
- [38:38]
Jeanne
Go now. The blood of France is spilling.
- [38:56]
Host
Thank you for being a dedicated listener to the Catholic Saints podcast. Your support truly uplifts us. For those seeking additional thought provoking content, go to formed.org it's a platform brimming with resources, including insightful videos that align seamlessly with our podcast's themes. If you're finding value in our podcast, please consider taking a moment to leave us a review. Your feedback serves as a cornerstone for our growth and outreach.