St. John Neumann

Summary

Catholic Saints – St. John Neumann

Podcast: Catholic Saints
Host: Taylor Kemp (Director of Formed, Augustine Institute)
Guest: Dr. Chris Mooney
Date: January 5, 2026
Episode Theme:
This episode dives into the life, ministry, and enduring legacy of St. John Neumann, the first male American citizen to be canonized. The hosts clarify common misconceptions, explore Neumann’s missionary zeal, hardships, and institution-building, and share personal reflections on his American sainthood.

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Main Theme Overview

The episode explores St. John Neumann’s journey from Bohemia to becoming a pioneering missionary and bishop in 19th-century America. The hosts focus on Neumann’s perseverance in the face of adversity, his foundational work for Catholic education in the U.S., and the spiritual lessons his life offers today—highlighting how sainthood can flourish in ordinary, concrete circumstances, even on American soil.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Clarifying Identity: St. John Neumann vs. St. John Henry Newman

• Pronunciation and Confusion:
  • The hosts open by clarifying the identity of this saint, noting frequent confusion with St. John Henry Newman, the English saint.
  • “His last name is spelt N-E-U-M-A-N-N. ...most people will hear Newman, and I think that’s how he’s revered in the US.” (C, 00:37)
• Distinct Person, Distinct Legacy:
  • Listeners are reminded to “do your homework” on quotes, as the two saints are sometimes confused. (C, 01:15)

2. Early Life & Call to Missionary Work

• Bohemian Roots and Family Influence (01:15 – 02:30):
  • Neumann was born in 1811 in what’s now the Czech Republic, in a devout Catholic family, excelling in studies and feeling an early pull toward science and medicine.
  • His mother discerned his potential for priesthood, and he entered seminary around age 20.
• Desire for Mission and Providence (02:30 – 04:16):
  • Inspired by accounts of St. Paul and missionary work, Neumann felt called to missions.
  • Ironically, his friend who had the same initial missionary zeal remained home, while Neumann pursued this call.
    • “Providence is mysterious.” (B, 04:16)

3. Challenges Emigrating and Missionary Reality in the U.S.

• Hardships and Setbacks (04:16 – 06:03):
  • Neumann faced emotional family farewells, bureaucratic obstacles, and financial hardship en route to America.
• America as ‘Mission Territory’:
  • The U.S. was officially designated as mission territory into the 20th century due to a weak ecclesial infrastructure.
• Arrival and Immediate Ordination (06:02 – 06:59):
  • On arrival in New York, he had little besides a single dollar; the bishop ordains him within days, eager for priests for the growing German-speaking population.
    • Notable quote:
      • “He was quickly put to work as a priest to a huge rural part of upstate New York… the only priest for something like 1,000 square miles.” (C, 06:19)

4. Missionary Life in Upstate New York

• Pastoral Zeal and Physical Hardship (07:25 – 07:39):
  • Neumann tirelessly visited scattered Catholics, celebrated Mass in homes and unfinished churches, and endured constant travel.
  • “If you want to be a missionary, you have to love poverty and be entirely disinterested.” (C quoting Neumann, 07:39)
• Charity and Discernment:
  • The discussion emphasizes that deep love and humility drive effective ministry.
  • Hosts reflect on God’s providence purifying and guiding authentic desires through obstacles. (B & C, 07:54 – 09:39)
  • “It’s so interesting because I feel like it’s certainly common in the lives of the saints that the Lord purifies and tests people's desires and callings through this kind of thing…” (B, 08:24)

5. Seeking Community: Joining the Redemptorists

• Human Need and Religious Life (10:12 – 11:38):
  • Feeling the loneliness of mission life, Neumann joins the Redemptorists (founded by St. Alphonsus Ligouri), becoming the first to do so on U.S. soil.
• Leadership and Recognition:
  • He rises to become U.S. provincial superior and then, due to his abilities, is chosen as bishop of Philadelphia.
    • “He was a lot of firsts…” (C, 11:29)
    • “He really did not want to be bishop.” (C, 12:03)
    • “A sign of a good bishop.” (B, 12:05)

6. Bishop of Philadelphia: Legacy of Education and Courage

• Pastoral Humility & Shrine (12:05 – 13:38):
  • Neumann is buried at his Philadelphia shrine, in a modest urban neighborhood, emphasizing his American roots and accessibility.
  • Personal reflection:
    • “I was just incredibly inspired that every one of us is called to be a saint, even in America, and that it’s been done.” (B, 13:12)
• Founding the Diocesan School System (13:38 – 14:55):
  • He is credited with establishing the first U.S. diocesan school system, personally teaching catechism, writing clear and simple children’s catechisms, and building churches.
    • “He's often credited with starting the diocesan school system in the US…” (C, 13:42)
• Promoting Devotions amid Hostility:
  • Neumann brought Eucharistic devotion (“Forty Hours”) to Philadelphia—despite prevailing anti-Catholic sentiment.
  • Persevered through the anti-immigrant, anti-Catholic “Know-Nothing” era.
    • “Some of you might remember...the Know Nothing party...anti-immigrant, anti-Catholic bias. ...St. John persevered and really wanted to bring devotion to the Blessed Sacrament.” (C, 15:28)
• Endurance and Quiet Holiness:
  • Despite being unassuming and publicity-shy, people recognized his sanctity soon after his death. (C, 15:56)

7. Courage in Adversity: Building the Cathedral

• Creative Solutions to Persecution (16:16 – 17:55):
  • Anecdote: To protect the church from vandalism, Neumann had workers determine the highest rocks could be thrown, then set cathedral windows five feet above that.
    • “He was building this cathedral, which is like quasi-cathedral, quasi-fortress, because he knows it's going to be attacked. ...he was courageous for the people he was ministering to.” (B, 16:36)

8. Reflections on Missionary Spirit

• Ordinary Holiness and Forgotten Missionaries (18:08 – 20:50):
  • The hosts relate Neumann to the wider lineage of missionaries and saints, famous and obscure, who spread the faith with daily perseverance.
    • “There are some missionaries who do great, extraordinary works…A lot of St. John Neumann’s life is more ordinary but he did ordinary missionary work, which is itself kind of extraordinary. And he did it with extraordinary desire.” (C, 19:53)
  • Final prayerful reflection:
    • “The Lord says that the harvest is abundant, but the laborers are few. ...We should pray for more missionaries like St. John Neumann who aren’t just drawn to the extraordinary, but do the ordinary with great, extraordinary zeal.” (C, 20:43)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments with Timestamps

• On perseverance:
  • “He became a US citizen later in his life. ...He’s the first male US Citizen [saint].” (C, 01:32)
• On missionary obstacles and discernment:
  • “If you want to be a missionary, you have to love poverty and be entirely disinterested.” (C quoting Neumann, 07:39)
  • “I'm sure there's people ...where you're trying to follow the Lord and you think you're going in the right way and you're not totally sure and you're hitting obstacles. ...the Lord often uses obstacles to purify us along the way.” (B, 09:19)
• On community and loneliness:
  • “He realized, I think, how lonely he was as a missionary in upstate New York.” (C, 10:12)
• On founding the U.S. diocesan school system:
  • “He’s often credited with starting the diocesan school system in the US ...He cared a lot about education, built lots of schools, lots of churches.” (C, 13:42)
• Practical courage (cathedral window story):
  • “He brought a bunch of construction, like big guys, have them pick up rocks and throw as high as they could up the cathedral wall ...put the windows five feet above as high as these guys could throw because people kept vandalizing the churches.” (B, 16:16)
• On the ordinary missionary life:
  • "A lot of St. John Neumann's life is more ordinary but he did ordinary missionary work, which is itself kind of extraordinary. And he did it with extraordinary desire." (C, 19:53)
• Prayer for more missionaries:
  • “We should pray for more missionaries like St. John Neumann who aren’t just drawn to the extraordinary, but do the ordinary with great, extraordinary zeal.” (C, 20:43)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:37 – Identity and pronunciation; distinction from John Henry Newman
• 01:32 – First American male citizen canonized; Bohemian roots
• 03:15 – Inspired for missionary life; blocked for ordination in Europe
• 06:02 – Arrival in US; immediate ordination due to priest shortage
• 07:25 – Pastoral life in rural New York
• 10:12 – Joins Redemptorists for community
• 11:38 – Made provincial and bishop of Philadelphia
• 13:38 – Education: launching school system and writing catechisms
• 15:28 – Anti-Catholic hostility, perseverance, and devotions
• 16:16 – Cathedral window anecdote showing practical courage
• 18:08 – Missionary legacy; gratitude for ordinary saints
• 20:43 – Concluding prayer for more missionary zeal

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Final Reflection

St. John Neumann exemplifies perseverance, pastoral charity, and missionary zeal, working quietly but resolutely amid challenge and even hostility. His enduring legacy in Catholic education and parish life, especially underlines how American holiness is both possible and concrete. The episode invites listeners to recognize the power of small, unheralded daily acts and to pray for a new generation of missionaries formed in humility and faith.

St. John Neumann, pray for us!

Transcript

[A]

You're listening to a podcast on Catholic Saints. This podcast is produced by the Augustine Institute, an apostolate helping Catholics understand, live, and share their faith.

[B]

Hello, everyone, and welcome to Catholic Saints. My name is Taylor Kemp. I'm the director of Formed, and with me Today again is Dr. Chris Mooney.

[C]

You.

[B]

You've heard him before. You love him. Today we are talking about St. John Newman, whose feast day is January 5th. Dr. Mooney, where shall we begin to learn about St. John Newman?

[C]

Yeah, thanks for having me, Taylor. It's great to be able to talk about him. I'll mention first. You know, I've heard his name pronounced in different ways. His last name is spelt for anyone who's just listening. N, E, U, M, A, N, N. Which to me, from the little bit of time I spent in Germany, makes me so want to pronounce it Neumann, which some people do.

[B]

Which I think is correct.

[C]

Which is probably correct technically, but most people will hear Newman, and I think that's how he's. How he's revered in the US and related to that.

[B]

Not St John Henry Newman, the English saint.

[C]

This is the other St. John Newman.

[B]

Different. Same name, different places, different spelling.

[C]

In fact, viewers or listeners might even find that information They've heard about St. John Newman. This one is often mixed up with St. John Henry Newman. Quotes that are actually from St. John Henry Newman are attributed to this one. But do your homework. You know, different people.

[B]

So, okay, where should we begin?

[C]

Where should we start? So St. John Newman is. I think one of the reasons that he's remarkable is so far, he's the only canonized American man who's a saint.

[B]

That's crazy.

[C]

A U.S. citizen.

[B]

I'm, like, blown away by that.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And he became a US citizen later in his life. He was actually born in 1811 in Bohemia, the modern day Czech Republic. But I think this should direct our attention already, especially to him. Okay, we want to know more about saints from our own country. He's the first male US Citizen.

[B]

It proves holiness can be found on American soil. Let it be known.

[C]

It does. It does. Well, there are a lot more female saints. I know there are. For US men, there's hope. So. But I'll say a little bit about his background. So, like I said, he wasn't born in the US he was born in the modern day Czech Republic and grew up in a Catholic family. Really excelled in school. That was kind of one of the first ways that he stood out. Did very well in his studies. So he went on for further studies and he really liked different kinds of sciences, was drawn towards maybe being a doctor. But his mother identified something in him and she thought, no, I think you really have what it takes. And I think God is really calling you to be a priest. Wow. And he took this to heart. And so he did enter the seminary. He entered the seminary, was around age 20, and he excelled in his studies there. But then an idea entered into his mind that really captivated him and that was to become a missionary. And this actually ended up being very providential because by the time he, by the time he was to be ordained, there were actually too many seminarians in his year. And so the bishop couldn't ordain him. So it ended up being very providential that he had this desire to be a missionary. But it came about through a variety of things, through reading stories of missionaries and through one particular address that the director of the seminary gave about the missionary work of St. Paul that just really struck St. John deeply, although in a way that he didn't admit at first. His biography mentions that a friend of his came to him afterwards and said that he was another seminarian, that is that he was so struck by the talk that he wanted to be a missionary. And initially, actually St. John teased him for a while about this and then suddenly relented and said, no, I'm going with you. You know what the irony is though, that that friend ended up staying in Bohemia as a priest. And St. John is the one who.

[B]

Went, providence is mysterious.

[C]

It is providence. Yeah. So he initially resisted. You know, he's sort of like the one who, you know, the son who says to the father, I will not, and does so anyway. Now, of course, his family was shocked and saddened when he announced his plans to become a missionary. This was not what they had expected. You know, his sisters even broke down and cried when he said this. And he was plagued by many problems in his desire to get to the U.S. you know, letters that didn't go through or weren't answered, communication that broke down, travel that didn't work, changed plans, a lack of money, but he had his sights set on America. Now, this may be a sort of surprise to imagine, but the church officially classified the US as mission territory until the early 20th century because there weren't. The structure of the church was underdeveloped. And so, strange as it may seem to us, early 19th century, post revolutionary America, St. John and the rest of the church looked at it as mission territory, but it was actually very fruitful mission territory because there were so many Immigrants coming to the U.S. so many Catholic immigrants. And so when he arrived in New York City, he had the clothes on his back and a dollar bill or a dollar coin, I don't know what it was, maybe it wasn't a bill, but he had a dollar. And that was all he had. But the Bishop of New York was delighted to have him and immediately said, no, no, I will ordain you right now because I need you.

[B]

He wasn't even ordained.

[C]

He wasn't ordained because he couldn't. This is part of the providential problems, you know, because. But I think also shows the courage that St. John Berman had that he went to the US even though he lacked the proper letters. He wasn't yet ordained. He didn't have the money that he was supposed to have, didn't come through or kept running out. But as Providence would have it, when he arrived, the bishop immediately identified, no, I want this man. I need a priest like him. And part of the reason was because there were a lot of German Catholics who needed German speaking priests. And so he was ordained, I think within days after his arrival in New York City. But he was quickly put to work as a priest to a huge rural part of upstate New York. So he arrives in New York City, but then he gets sent up to upstate New York and is, I think, if I remember correctly, the only priest for something like 1,000 square miles. Wow. In this huge area. But St. John was dedicated to it. And so he, he set to work visiting, you know, visiting the homes of all the different Catholics in the area, sang Mass in people's homes, sang Mass in churches that were only half built. I mean, his ministry in many ways was the kind of ordinary sufferings of being constantly walking, constantly on horseback, constantly going from place to place. But this is the work that he sent himself to.

[B]

Yeah. And it's very pastoral. Like, you can tell because it reveals the heart. Like, you know, charity should be the driver of action. You can tell, like if you're going out and you're celebrating Mass, you're eating at people's. You can tell he has a pastor's heart.

[C]

He wrote to a friend, a priest back in Europe, and said something like, if you want to be a missionary, you have to love poverty and be entirely disinterested. And that's how he set about his missionary work. So he loved poverty and was entirely disinterested.

[B]

I love the little seg when you were talking about the difficulties that he faces because you think about how, how the Lord's providence often unfolds in our lives, and he gives us authentic desires. Right. And he had this desire to be a missionary, which he was almost afraid to admit to himself, which is interesting because it's like, you know, I'm sure many people have wrestled with that too. Like, you feel this tug on your heart and you're like, wait a second.

[C]

I think in ways it's a calling that became a desire.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. And so you're trying to wrestle with that and you're almost afraid to admit it. And are my motives messed up?

[C]

I don't know.

[B]

And it's so interesting because I feel like it's certainly common in the lives of the saints that the Lord purifies and tests people's desires. Desires and calling through this kind of thing. Not getting ordained, having no money. And then eventually, like, it kind of, you get through it, and then you look back and you're like, ah, y totally makes sense. Because he wants to purify us. He gives us our calling. It's all. What does St. Francis de Sales say? That there's alloy or something in the metal. But that these things have to be kind of cooked out of us to be more purified for the calling that he has. And you can totally see that here with him.

[C]

It's not hard for you to imagine. I'm not saying this happened, but to imagine how easy it would be for people to discourage him along the way. Oh, clearly you're not called. Clearly.

[B]

You didn't get ordained.

[C]

You didn't go ordained. Yeah, you need to give this up.

[B]

Where are you going to stay?

[C]

Where are you going to stay? You have no money. Yeah, but all these things, you know, for him, he realized that to receive the Lord's call, these are secondary.

[B]

And it's just. Yeah, he was just trying to be faithful to what the Lord was doing. But I'm sure there's people that are out there listening to this, where you're trying to follow the Lord and you think you're going in the right way and you're not totally sure and you're hitting obstacles. And there's a discernment there, of course, but it's not that the Lord often uses obstacles to purify us along the way.

[C]

Yeah. And it's not like they were. They were all obstacles. There's important confirmation. Like I said, when he arrived in New York and the bishop was so glad to receive him, you know, if he had arrived in New York and the bishop said, what are. You should go home.

[B]

What are you doing here?

[C]

Yeah, yeah. And Maybe it would be a different story. But that's. But of course he wasn't. Yeah. And I think he had the wisdom and good sense to know that.

[B]

And you can see that in his conversation. Conversation with his friend, too. Right. Like, it came up in a very natural way. He's not out there, like, grasping, trying to force something to work. So. Yeah, okay, So I love the quote. You have to be a lover of poverty and be disinterested.

[C]

Yeah. So, however, despite that disinterested and lover of poverty, you know, there's also a human dimension to St. John, and part of that human dimension, that's not a euphemism. It just means that he realized, I think, how lonely he was as a missionary in upstate New York. And so when he learned about the Redemptorists, which is a religious order started by Saint Alphonsus of Liguri, he recognized an answer to his desire for community. And so he actually pursued the Redemptorist order and was gladly welcomed there. I think he was actually the first Redemptorist ordained on or received. He was already ordained. Sorry. The first received on US Soil. So. But he became a lot of firsts. A lot of firsts, yeah. But he retained. Became a Redemptorist in order to be part of that religious community and to have the support that comes from having other priests with him. And he was so successful as that. And you can kind of imagine, you know, if he has such perseverance, such patience and suffering and such zeal and a lot of energy, that he ended up becoming the provincial superior for the Redemptorists in the US and then because of his great abilities, he was recognized in Rome and was chosen to be the fourth bishop of Philadelphia.

[B]

Wow.

[C]

And, you know, Philadelphia was an even more important city at the time. You know, remember, this is, you know, just after. I mean, only a few decades after the. This is early American history. Only a few decades after the Revolution, Philadelphia is one of the most important cities in the U.S. so this is really important for him to be the fourth bishop of Philadelphia. Now, St. John really did not want to be the bishop.

[B]

It was a good sign of a good bishop.

[C]

That was a sign of a good bishop. So. And he's known. It's actually in Philadelphia now where his shrine in tomb is. So I have to add a. I've never been. But.

[B]

But have you have been. Yeah. So we are. We're working on a great project here that'll be coming out in 2024. And part of It. We filmed at his tomb in. In Philadelphia. And so I got to go and. And got to see it. It was really cool. It was really powerful. I mean, it's the. Where the. Where the church is and where his crypt is. Like, it's not in a great part of town. It's, like, pretty unassuming. You wouldn't really think much of it. And I just remember going there, like, I am an American. I was brought up here. And you go there and it's just. It's in Philly. Like, it's just in this American town. And then you're like, wow, this guy's an American saint. And I remember I was just incredibly inspired that every one of us is called to be a saint, even in America, and that it's been done. And so it was a great privilege to go there. You know, he. I don't want to take any of your talking points or thunder that's coming, so I'm not going to. But. But he was a teacher, and he had a great love of communicating the faith and passing it on, especially to kids. And that's part of what we want to do here at the Augustine Institute. We have lots of different things, and we're a building filled with teachers. And so it was a great privilege. I loved going to see his tomb and really just draw inspiration of what the Lord did in his life, coming here. And then he's a saint as an American. It was really cool.

[C]

Yeah. He wasn't bishop for very long. I think he was ordained bishop around 1850. So he was born in 1811. Bishop, I think 1850, but then died in 1860. So he was only bishop for around 10 years, but he did an enormous amount in just those 10 years. So you were talking about education. He's often credited with starting the diocesan school system in the US he cared a lot about education, built lots of schools, lots of churches. And I mean, this. You know, his desire for education came out of his own experience as an educator. One of the things that he did when he was in upstate New York was often teach catechism personally, when he had. There was one instance where there was a teacher that ended up being a really poor teacher. And so this is. Sorry. Before he became a bishop, when he was in New York. And so he let the teacher go and taught all the classes himself, which made it enormous burden for him. But so he started the diocesan school system in Philadelphia, and he also wrote catechisms for children. I was looking at one just recently. One of his short catechisms it's very short. You can tell that it's pastorally intended for children. It has this question and answer format, but really simple answers. It has five parts on the faith, on hope and prayer, on love and works of love, on the sacraments and on Christian justice. Those are the five parts. Those are the basics that he wanted to teach. He's also known for having promoted in the Diocese of Philadelphia the 40 hours devotion, remembering the 40 hours in which Jesus was in the tomb from Friday to Sunday morning. And again, this is very Protestant early America. These sorts of things are the kinds of things that smacked of superstition to a lot of other people. Some of you might remember from your history classes in high school, at least I do. The Know Nothing party, you had this anti immigrant, anti Catholic bias. And so these are, these are real issues in Philadelphia. And yet St. John persevered and he really wanted to bring devotion to the Blessed Sacrament. And I think it's in such a way that, you know, people immediately after he died, devotion to him sprang up very quickly because people saw what a holy, a holy life that he. That he led. It was a very, in many ways a very quiet life. He didn't like attention at all, but people knew that that's what hid the great holiness of his life.

[B]

I have to share one more story. I just remembered this. Okay, so he also was part of building of the cathedral in Philly. And it was during. This is what prompted the thought. It was during this very anti Catholic time. People were not fans of Catholics. And so he was part of the building project. And so what he did is he brought a bunch of guys, a bunch of construction, like big guys, have them pick up rocks and throw as high as they could up the cathedral wall to figure out where they were going to put the windows. And then they put the windows five feet above, as high as these guys could throw because people kept vandalizing the churches. And so one of the things that I was thinking about with him, it seemed by all accounts he was very pastoral. He didn't like the limelight, and yet he would have needed tremendous courage. Like, he's in a. By all accounts, or at least in some of the circumstances, in a hostile environment, he's building this cathedral, which is like quasi cathedral, quasi fortress, because he knows it's going to be like attacked. And you're like, that's just beautiful. Because those two things, you wouldn't necessarily put them together, but he brought that together. I think he was courageous for the people that he was ministering to. Absolutely. And then I remember this from the kind of the episode arc that we were doing. Doing on him, but that he understood it was kind of tied to the fortress idea. If he was building this cathedral, he put the windows higher than people could possibly throw rocks because he knew that the church was this kind of like pillar and bulwark of truth, and so people needed it to receive true teaching, true preaching. And that. That was so connected to his missionary zeal. He wanted to come over because he knew people needed to know Christ.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And then he kind of gave himself over to that in the concrete circumstances that he had to Building a cathedral, starting a school system, ministering to the people on the street. But I love that rock story. I was like, that's an awesome story.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, I think one of the things that stands out to me at the end thinking about St. John Newman's life is the importance and fruitfulness of those people who give themselves entirely to the church and to Christ in the work. In work as missionaries. You know, I was thinking about. As I was learning about and thinking about the life of St. John Newman, it reminded me of how much all of us, maybe especially Catholics in the US Owe to the work of missionaries whose names we so true forget.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

You know, if you're an Irish Catholic, you in some ways trace your lineage back to the missionary work of St Patrick. There are lots of others who went with him, but, you know, or if you're. And sometimes those are. Sometimes missionaries are much better known, like St. Patrick or maybe even, you know.

[B]

St. Augustine of Canterbury.

[C]

St. Augustine of Canterbury. Yeah. Or St. Boniface in Germany. And sometimes missionaries are less well known, like St. John Newman. Sometimes, of course, they're not known at all. You know, I think of, like, the countless Franciscans and Dominicans who brought the Gospel to the Americas. You know, centuries before St. John Newman wanted to be a missionary, there were Dominicans and Franciscans and Jesuits who wanted to bring the gospel to north and South America. And so it makes me think about how important missionaries are in the life and history of the church and also makes me think about how there's some missionaries who do great, extraordinary works. You know, it's fun to tell the story of St. Boniface when he chops down donor's oak, you know, this sacred pagan oak, and by chopping it down, actually kind of relieved the populace of their fear of false gods and opened the way for Christ. Okay, that's a great story to tell. A lot of St. John Newman's life is more ordinary but he did ordinary missionary work, which is itself kind of extraordinary. And he did it with extraordinary desire. So I think of St. John Newman and I think St. John Newman pray for us for more missionaries. The Lord says that the harvest is abundant, but the laborers are few. And so we should pray for more missionaries like Stuff St John Newman who aren't just drawn to the extraordinary, but do the ordinary with great, extraordinary zeal. I love it.

[B]

Alrighty, everybody, that's what we have for you for St. John Newman. Dr. Mooney, thank you very much. As always, you can look up Dr. Mooney's other Catholic saint episodes and other things, but until next time, that is all.

[C]

Thanks.

[B]

This is a poor close, but we're going to keep going with it. We'll see you next time on Catholic Saints.

[A]

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