St. Louis de Montfort

Summary

Summary of Podcast Episode: "St. Louis de Montfort"

Podcast Information:

• Title: Catholic Saints
• Host: Taylor Kemp, Director of Formed
• Guest: Dr. John Seehorn, Scripture Scholar
• Episode: St. Louis de Montfort
• Release Date: April 28, 2025
• Produced by: Augustine Institute

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1. Introduction

The episode opens with Taylor Kemp welcoming listeners to the "Catholic Saints" podcast, produced by the Augustine Institute. She introduces the guest for the day, Dr. John Seehorn, a scripture scholar. The focus of the episode is on Saint Louis Marie Grignion de Montfort, a prominent figure in Catholic spirituality.

Notable Quote:

• Taylor Kemp [00:02]: “Hello, everyone, and welcome to Catholic Saints.”

2. Early Life and Historical Context

Dr. Seehorn begins by situating St. Louis de Montfort within the broader context of the French school of spirituality, which emphasized a deep intimacy with Jesus and His mysteries. Born in 1673 in Brittany, northwestern France, St. Louis was the second child in a large family of 18 children, many of whom did not survive childhood.

Key Points:

• Birth and Family: Born into a devout yet economically focused family.
• French School of Spirituality: Emphasis on entering deeply into the life of Jesus.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John Seehorn [01:02]: “St. Louis was born in 1673... the French school really emphasized a deep kind of entrance into the life of Jesus.”
• Taylor Kemp [01:46]: “That's awesome.”

3. Education and Influences

At age 12, Louis entered a Jesuit-run school, reflecting his family's strong religious background, with multiple siblings becoming priests and nuns. His education continued in Paris at the seminary of Sulpice, an institution influenced by both Jesuit and Sulpician spiritual teachings. St. Louis was known for his deep prayer life and detachment from worldly concerns, traits that sometimes caused friction in his early assignments.

Key Points:

• Jesuit Education: Early education at a Jesuit-run school.
• Sulpician Seminary: Further studies at the seminary of Sulpice.
• Personal Traits: Deep prayer life, detachment from worldly achievements.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John Seehorn [03:09]: “St. Louis was born in western France, in Brittany... he was the oldest of a huge family.”
• Taylor Kemp [04:35]: “You're saying his father's what he viewed as his father's attachment to worldly goods.”

4. Priesthood and Missionary Work

Ordained in 1700, St. Louis sought missionary work, driven by a profound desire to glorify God and spread the love of Jesus and Mary. His mission led him back to France, where he conducted numerous parish missions, revitalizing local faith communities. Dr. Seehorn emphasizes St. Louis as a model for the new evangelization, highlighting his efforts to inspire deep spiritual lives among the faithful.

Key Points:

• Ordination: Became a priest in 1700.
• Missionary Apostolate: Returned to France to conduct parish missions.
• Model for Evangelization: Exemplary approach to inspiring faith and holiness.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John Seehorn [07:36]: “He desperately wants to make Jesus and Mary known and loved.”
• Taylor Kemp [07:22]: “He wants to give himself so badly.”

5. Spirituality and Theological Insights

St. Louis authored "Secret of Mary," where he articulates the purpose of human existence as striving for holiness through the grace of God. He emphasizes understanding the spirit of the world and seeking self-knowledge to recognize and resist worldly distractions. His teachings resonate with the Beatitudes, particularly the call to humility and recognizing our need for God's grace.

Key Points:

• Secret of Mary: Central theological work emphasizing holiness.
• Vocation to Holiness: Every aspect of life should lead toward sanctity.
• Resistance to Worldly Wisdom: Advocates for discernment and spiritual self-awareness.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John Seehorn [11:18]: “Everything you suffer or undertake must lead you towards that end [holiness].”
• Taylor Kemp [09:45]: “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for there’s the kingdom of heaven.”

6. Marian Devotion

A significant portion of the discussion centers on St. Louis's devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. He authored a treatise on true devotion to Mary, advocating for total consecration to Jesus through Mary. This devotion is portrayed not as a replacement for Christ but as a means to deepen one's relationship with Him. St. Louis interprets Mary as a mediatrix who shares her intimacy with Jesus, facilitating a closer communion with God.

Key Points:

• Total Consecration: Complete dedication to Jesus through Mary.
• Mediatrix Role: Mary as an intermediary in communion with Christ.
• Freedom Through Devotion: Emphasizes that true freedom and holiness are achieved through submission to Mary.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John Seehorn [16:54]: “Mary is our mediatrix with Christ.”
• Taylor Kemp [19:32]: “It's a mediation of communion.”

7. The Rosary and Spiritual Practices

In the latter part of the episode, Dr. Seehorn discusses St. Louis’s promotion of the Rosary as a tool for intimate prayer and meditation on the mysteries of Christ’s life. He emphasizes the Rosary as a daily practice that shapes a Christian’s worldview and spiritual life. St. Louis encouraged even children to pray the Rosary regularly and adapted its practice to fit various states of life.

Key Points:

• Rosary Promotion: Viewed as a profound means to intimate prayer.
• Integration into Daily Life: Encouraged regular Rosary prayer tailored to individual circumstances.
• Biblical Meditation: The Rosary helps believers meditate on and internalize the mysteries of Christ’s life.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. John Seehorn [23:17]: “St. Louis... became a third order Dominican, and he got permission from them to preach the rosary.”
• Taylor Kemp [24:42]: “It helps you read the Bible... the Gospels.”

8. Conclusion

The episode concludes with Taylor Kemp expressing gratitude to Dr. Seehorn for his insights into St. Louis de Montfort's life and spirituality. She encourages listeners to engage with the Augustine Institute's resources for further learning and spiritual growth.

Key Points:

• Appreciation: Acknowledgment of the educational and spiritual value of discussing saints.
• Call to Action: Encouragement to explore Augustine Institute's offerings.

Notable Quotes:

• Taylor Kemp [25:14]: “Dr. Seaborn, this was a lot of fun. It's very edifying to talk about the lives of the saints.”
• Dr. John Seehorn [25:14]: “Thank you.”

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Key Takeaways:

• St. Louis de Montfort is celebrated for his profound dedication to holiness, Marian devotion, and missionary zeal.
• His Spirituality emphasizes total consecration to Jesus through Mary, viewing this as a path to true freedom and sanctity.
• The Rosary, as promoted by St. Louis, serves as a vital tool for Christians to meditate on the mysteries of Christ’s life and deepen their relationship with God.
• Legacy and Influence: St. Louis de Montfort remains a significant model for evangelization and living a life of holiness within the Catholic tradition.

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Resources:

• Watch Episodes: Available in video format at form.org
• Support the Mission: Visit missioncircle.org to become an Augustine Institute Mission Circle Partner.

Transcript

[Taylor Kemp]

You're listening to a podcast on Catholic Saints. This podcast is produced by the Augustine Institute, an apostolate helping Catholics understand, live, and share their faith. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Catholic Saints. I am Taylor Kemp, the director of Formed, and with me today is Dr. John Seehorn. Dr. Seymour, it's good to see you.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Good to see you, too, Taylor.

[Taylor Kemp]

I'm glad you're here. Today we are talking about a great saint, Saint Louis Marie Grignon de Montfort.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Did I say that right? French B.

[Taylor Kemp]

That's pretty good, I would have thought. I thought I was getting a C there.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

You have to pinch your lips together. I'm serious. It's like. Do you ever play a horn? Like trumpet or anything? Well, if you don't have any embouchure, you can't do it. Soccer.

[Taylor Kemp]

It didn't do it for the lives. I'm not a linguist.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Okay.

[Taylor Kemp]

I didn't.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Let's talk about St. Louis. Let's talk about him.

[Taylor Kemp]

Let's talk about him. Okay. So, Dr. Seeing horn, where should we begin when it comes to St. Louis de Montfort?

[Dr. John Seehorn]

We'll start at the very beginning. That's a very good place to start.

[Taylor Kemp]

Very good place to start.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Okay, so. Yeah, good. So St. Louis was born in 1673. There's actually a lot that we could say about kind of his context. We'll kind of keep it simple for now, but a couple things that I think that I find really interesting that we're going on. One is St. Louis was born at a time of the kind of flourishing of what's known as the French school of spirituality. Okay. And there's a lot that we could say about that. Maybe all I'll say right now is just that the French school really emphasized a deep kind of entrance into the life of Jesus.

[Taylor Kemp]

That's awesome.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

It is. It's really awesome. There was this profound emphasis on intimacy with Jesus in his mysteries, in the mysteries of his life. In fact, you can even see kind of the influence of this in the catechism of the Catholic Church when it talks about how Christ continues to live the mysteries of his life in us, in the members of his body. Again, there's a lot more we could say about the French school, but I think that's a good place to start. The other thing that, at least for me, as you know, much of my study was in the Fathers of the Church and especially the Eastern Fathers of the Church. Well, around this time around, a lot of the Greek Fathers, their writings were being translated in France and becoming available even in French. Like, usually little excerpts, little lines would be kind of anthologized, and you'd have these beautiful lines from Byzantine saints that might not be that familiar to all of us, like Saint Germanus of Constantinople, Saint John of Damascus, Saint Andrew of Crete. And that's important, especially in the context of St. Louis, because of some of the things that those Byzantine bishops and priests and preachers had to say about Mary.

[Taylor Kemp]

Interesting. Okay, so this is all gonna. In his later life, this will inform his thinking.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Yeah. And even. Even his education. Yeah, for sure. So before I wanna.

[Taylor Kemp]

Before we get to education.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Well, no, I was gonna tell you about.

[Taylor Kemp]

You were gonna tell me his childhood. I'm ready.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

His childhood. Yeah, yeah. Sorry. I got ahead, but I just wanna kind of make that backdrop and. Yeah. So St. Louis was born in western France, in Brittany, kind of northwestern France. And in 1673, as I said, he. I think, second child born to his parents, but his elder sibling, I can't remember if it was a brother or sister, died at, like, just a few months. So he grew up as the oldest of a huge family, I think. I think in all there were 18 children, although almost half of them died in childhood. Right. So, yeah, really tough, good Christian family. But, you know, like most Christian families, some problems. It sounds like his father was a serious believer. Was, you know, really did believe the gospel, was serious about his faith. But at least from Louis point of view, I think was a little too focused on kind of worldly concerns, trying to advance himself, make money, things like that. And even we might think about the conflicts that are so famous between Saint Francis of Assisi and his father, Pietro. Right.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yes.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

And it's good. Cause it's easy in retrospect to be like, well, obviously the saint was right. But at the time, you're like, I don't know, it's like a dad who's just trying to make his way. Right. And so there's.

[Taylor Kemp]

Stop selling my stuff.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Totally. Right. Yeah. And anyway, I just mentioned that because I do think that that was part of kind of the personal background for some of the characteristic things about St. Louis later in his life.

[Taylor Kemp]

You're saying his father's what he viewed as his father's attachment to worldly goods.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Yeah. And maybe I'll go ahead and say this now because it plays into his education. Right. So, I mean, Louis goes at, I think, the age of 12 to study at a Jesuit run school. The parish priest there actually was. His mother had, I think, three brothers who were priests. He ended up with a couple brothers who were priests and two sisters who became nuns.

[Taylor Kemp]

Okay.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

So again, this is a really devout family. What he quickly finds when he goes there is he's always kind of. He's kind of the weird kid who just wants to go to the chapel and pray, who is. His eyes are downcast. He doesn't care about clothes. He doesn't care about kind of worldly achievements. And that can be hard for a kid. He does discern a call to priesthood and goes to Paris in the early 1690s. It actually takes him a while because he doesn't have kind of the funds that he needs. But he eventually studies in the seminary of Sen Sulpice. So this is the home of the Sulpicians, which is actually an order that was only at this point, about 50 years old and had been founded by one of the key figures in this French school I was talking about. Okay. So you can see there's these different influences. Jesuit, Sulpician. And he's kind of. Louis is kind of this eclectic guy. He takes it all in, but he's such a man of deep prayer that he's sort of. He has his own personal synthesis of these. In some ways, it's almost like if this isn't too florid of an image, it's like going out and he's picking these flowers from anywhere he finds them. And anything he finds beautiful, he sort of tries to synthesize. But again, he's never that comfortable in kind of high society settings. He's never comfortable around people with money. He himself has this detachment to almost an aversion to worldly things. Like, he's always. And he gets himself in trouble all the time for this. He's always giving everything away. Right. Just like we were talking about with St. Francis and his father. But he had. He had this profound comfort among the poor, among the sick, among the downtrodden, not just because he sort of knew he should as a Christian, but because he seems to have had this really deep spiritual vision that allowed him truly to see Christ in the poor. And that's where he was happiest, because that's when he was with Jesus.

[Taylor Kemp]

I mean, honestly, as you're talking, he would make a great spokesman for the church. Like, he's kind of representing what the church is supposed to do. Go out and see all the things, take in the best, retain it and integrate it within oneself, and then be totally at home amongst the poor and reject the world like he is.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Yeah. And, you know, that, in a way, is kind of what happened. You know, Louis was ordained in 1700. And he has a couple assignments that don't go so well.

[Taylor Kemp]

Okay.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

And he's kind of. He wants to be a missionary. Right.

[Taylor Kemp]

He just.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

He desperately wants. He'll talk about this a lot. I want to make Jesus and Mary known and loved. I want to work for the glory of God. I want people to understand how all encompassing the truth and the goodness of God is. That's why I have here with me it's an English collection of his writings. And the title that was chosen by the compilers is God Alone. Which is how he would often sort of sign off his letters. Right. Just die, Sue. Just God Alone. That's all that matters in the end. And he couldn't understand how anybody could see the world otherwise. So this sort of gets back, actually, just to go back to what we were talking about with his father, he talks about this a lot. I find it really challenging. In his writings, he talks about different kind of false wisdoms, right? There's like satanic wisdom, like the kind of wisdom of the evil one that he tries to fool us with. But he often talks about these sort of very subtle kinds of worldly wisdom, like, well, I want to be a devout man, but not too pious. I wouldn't want people to think I'm weird.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah. Just holding back.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Right. I'm going to find ways to look like I'm being modest, but actually to promote myself. Yes, Right. And that's why in the spirituality he promotes, and you may know this, a really important component of it is first trying to understand the spirit of the world and then seeking a deeper knowledge of yourself, asking God for the grace of a deep knowledge of yourself in order to recognize all of these subtle ways that the spirit of the world, the false wisdom of the world, has infected us.

[Taylor Kemp]

I always think about the Beatitudes. Blessed are the poor in spirit, for there's the kingdom of heaven, which is really a call to humility in many respects. And many of the saints talk about the door to the spiritual life is humility, which essentially, humility is often some type of professed ignorance of, I don't know myself as well as I think. I'm impacted by the world more than I think. And I am less given over to God than perhaps. And in him there is like kind of what you were just saying, the world affects us.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

Full stop. And we are fools if we don't think that's the truth.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

You know, it's funny, I was just thinking this morning, Taylor, about to go to the other end of The Sermon on the Mount, right? That's in chapter five of Matthew's gospel. In chapter seven, I think it's verses 13 and 14, there's the famous line where Jesus says, enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is narrow and the way is broad, that leads to destruction. And there are many who enter it. Right? And then he does kind of the reverse. He says, for the gate is narrow and the way is hard. Or, sorry, I said, the way is broad, the way is easy that leads to destruction, and then the way is hard, that leads to life. And he says, those who find it are few. Now, notice I've never caught that. Yet those who enter it are many, and then even those who find it, which suggests that there are some who find it it who still don't enter it.

[Taylor Kemp]

Interesting. I've never caught that.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Right. I mean, it's sort of like the cliche, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. And I think that's what Louis says, that even those of us who have been led to the water of life, who've been baptized and who know the truth, nonetheless make these compromises. We don't want to enter it. Right. In Luke's version of that same saying, it's In Luke chapter 12, it's Jesus wording there is interesting. He just says, he puts it in the imperative. It's a command, strive to enter by the narrow gate, because it's the only thing that matters. And that's what St. Louis was all about. So anyway, I said, he's looking for a mission. He's trying to find his groove as priest.

[Taylor Kemp]

He wants to give himself so badly.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

So in 1706, he makes a pilgrimage to Rome. And it's a little quixotic, but it also reminds me of the story of the Little flower meeting Leo xiii, right? So Pope Clement Xiu, Pope at the time, and Louis sort of like threw himself on the ground. He was like, send me anywhere, please. And Clement said, go back to France. There's so much to do in France. But he blessed him and he actually appointed him as a missionary apostolic. It's sort of similar actually to how Pope Francis has identified some people, including our chaplain here at the AI, as a missionary of mercy, right? So he had this papal mandate to go, and he spent the rest of his life, which was only 10 years, but it's amazing what he did in 10 years. He went back to his native region and he just gave parish mission after parish mission after parish mission. And this tailor is why I think that St. Louis is just a tremendous. A tremendous model for the new evangelization. Because you think about, well, what are people like in western France in these little hamlets and villages and towns that he goes to? Well, they're a lot like a lot of people that we might know in our parishes. They're baptized, you know, they've received their sacraments. You know, they're basically in the church. But there's no zeal. There's no real deep reception of the graces of the sacraments, of the vocation of the baptized. Leo anticipated. Sorry, Leo. Louis anticipated the Second Vatican Council, and it's clarion call to the universal vocation, to holiness. Right? So, okay, I wasn't gonna pull this open, but maybe I will really quick.

[Taylor Kemp]

I like it.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

If I can find it in one of Louis works, it's called the Secret of Mary. Early on, it's in paragraph three, he says, this chosen soul, living image of God and redeemed by the precious blood of Jesus Christ. Already the way he invites us to think about who we are, we are living images of God who've been redeemed by the precious blood of Jesus Christ. God wants you, whoever you are, to become holy like him in this life and glorious like him in the next. And then he says this. It is certain that growth in the holiness of God is your vocation. All your thoughts, words, actions, everything you suffer or undertake must lead you towards that end. Otherwise, you're resisting God in not doing the work for which he created you and for which he is even now keeping you in being. Right? This is the purpose of your existence. And then, I love this line, what a marvelous transformation is possible. Dust into light, uncleanness into purity, sinfulness into holiness. And ready for this creature into Creator man, into God. Right. That we're invited to share in God's own. This was the center of St. Louis Apostolic Ministry as a priest going around and preaching these missions, Right? So really, the way to think about his ministry is an invitation for Christians to own their baptism. Because everything he says there is rooted in our baptism, in the vows that we make or our godparents make in our baptism. Right? Where we are reborn as sons and daughters of the Father and are given this vocation to be like God in holiness in this life and to share in his glory in the next.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah, that is beautiful. It is stirring. And, you know, I feel like as someone who was brought up or who came into the faith after the Second Vatican Council, you take it as a given, this universal call of holiness. I remember Just being told that a lot. But that was not. That has not always been the resounding call. That has been the true call of the Gospels and of Christ. But it has not always been presented as such. I mean, those.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Oh, and he talks a lot about the resistance he would get, right? People who were like, oh, don't worry, you know, God's merciful. He'll let me have a good confession on my dad making compromises. Like, you're out of control. Yeah, you're out of control, man. But he would say, really? Like, what else could possibly matter?

[Taylor Kemp]

What else matters and how. It's amazing to me that, you know, you hear these words and they're so stirring, and you're like, yes, that is what my life is going to be about. And then it's so easy to go on with our lives, go on with our day, and you can lose that center.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Absolutely.

[Taylor Kemp]

And just be like, my reason for existence is holiness, even with God.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

And St. Louis had an answer to this, and this was his secret. The text I just read to you from is called the Secret of Mary.

[Taylor Kemp]

Okay.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Now, we haven't really talked much about his Marian devotion until now, even though that might seem strange to some of you, because it really is what he's still best known for. Right. His best known work, even though I don't think it's his most important, is a treatise on true devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary. He's known for promoting this devotion of total consecration to Jesus through Mary. Right. And this kind of total dependence. And even he would use language of slavery, of making ourselves slaves to Mary. Obviously difficult language to you, but it's also language that is found in the New Testament. Right. Paul often talks about himself as a slave of Christ. In other words, one whose entire existence belongs to another. Right. So. And I just think it's important we don't have to talk a lot about the concept of holy slavery. But it's very clear when you read St. Louis, right. That when he uses this language, which we may not always want to use today for understandable reasons, but that for him, this is actually the key to true freedom, to true holiness, to true happiness.

[Taylor Kemp]

Say a little bit more about that. So how does enslaving oneself to Mary lead to freedom, lead to holiness.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Yeah. Okay, that's good. So first of all, why the prominence of Mary in particular, really, for Louis? It's because precisely of the centrality of Jesus. The very heart of Louis spirituality is the cross of the Incarnate Word, of incarnate wisdom. Right. So let's take those apart. Right. So first of all, divine wisdom, sort of working backward. The one who from eternity is perfectly united to the Father. Right. The one through whom we were made. Right. The one in whose image we've been made, but who, in order to rescue us, became incarnate. Right. And became incarnate and obedient even to the point of death on a cross. Right. So all of these things, it's one mystery to him. And how did that come about? It came about in God's providence through Mary. Right. And so for St. Louis, the humblest thing to do for those who are poor in spirit is not to find our own path to intimacy with God, but to receive the path by which Christ came to us, which is through Mary.

[Taylor Kemp]

That's pretty good.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Now, sometimes people think of this devotion to Mary as possibly almost like coming between us in Christ. Right. He'll even say, and he echoes Saint Bernard of Clairvaux and others when he says this, that Christ is our mediator with the Father, but Mary's our mediatrix with Christ. And you can think, oh, well, okay, so there's me and then Jesus and then God, but I'm not good enough to get to Jesus. Or maybe he's too stern. So, okay, this is. We could talk about this for a long time, but here's the basic point that I think is crucial. If you think that way, it's actually because you already misunderstand the mediation of Jesus. When we say that Jesus is our mediator, we don't say that he comes between us and God so that we have this sort of, like, chain that links us to God. The way Jesus is the mediator between God and man is by sharing with us his own intimacy with the Father. So when the saints talk about mediation, they're not talking about a go between. They're talking about this incredible dynamic where through Christ, we have access to the Father. We share in his own sonship. So if you think about Christ's mediation that way, what happens when we talk about Mary as the mediatrix with the mediator now? She's the one who shares with us her own intimacy with her son.

[Taylor Kemp]

It's a mediation of communion. Like, it's. It's.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

That's really well said.

[Taylor Kemp]

It's not like links in a chain.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Friends, he was my student. I just want to acknowledge. That was very well said.

[Taylor Kemp]

Thank you very much. The Augustine Institute Graduate School of Theology does fine work.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Well, thank you. That was. No, that's really well said. It's a mediation of communion.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah. But a sharing. And this is the story of the prodigal son. Son, all that I have is yours.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Yes. Yeah, exactly.

[Taylor Kemp]

And that. The mediation of Mary, you know, I can't remember exactly what the book is. I think it was by Louis Martinez, only Jesus. But he says that.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Luis Martinez. Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah. When we go to Mary, we are able to have her eyes to look at her son as she. We can love with her heart. And who would love Jesus Christ more than his own mother? And that, like, yeah, we share Christ's mediation, opens up his own relationship with the Father.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Yeah, that's true.

[Taylor Kemp]

And similarly, we're. Then Mary's relationship is open up.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

That's exactly right.

[Taylor Kemp]

It really. It's beautiful.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Yeah. And you know, it's true that as we grow in our life as Christians and recognize our sinfulness, we can rightly sometimes have this sense of being overwhelmed by the gap between our sinfulness and our smallness and the holiness and majesty of the Lord. And we go to Mary then, not because that's actually the case, but because Mary is the one through whom Jesus, in his gentleness, in his tenderness, in his love and his mercy, came close to us. And, I mean, we don't have time, but I could show you so many passages where Louis, he'll even like, sort of speak in the voice of Jesus and say, what else do I have to do to get you to come to me? I am meek and lowly of heart, like he says in Matthew 11. Right. And so Mary is a token of the gentleness of Jesus, not a replacement for the gentleness.

[Taylor Kemp]

And then that changes the way that you look at Mary at the foot of the cross when Jesus gives her to the beloved disciple. It's like, this is my gift to you.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

You know what's stunning? Right. Yeah. Behold your son. Behold your mother. What's stunning is Louis actually only rarely mentions that passage that is surprising, not because he thinks it's unimportant, but because he always likes to focus on. That was already sort of virtually present at the Annunciation, that when Mary said yes to being the mother of Jesus, she said yes to his mission. And his mission was to unite us to himself and bring us to the Father. And so by saying yes to being the mother of Jesus, she had already, even though she couldn't understand this fully, had already said yes to being the mother of all of his followers.

[Taylor Kemp]

And that resounds perfectly with. In John, chapter two, the wedding feast at Cana.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Totally.

[Taylor Kemp]

You know, the last recorded words that we have of Mary are, do whatever he takes. And that. That's like that. That is her resounding message. Like, that's her mission. Do whatever he tells you.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Absolutely right. And so now I can finally answer your question, which is, how can this talk of slavery be a call to freedom? Well, because true freedom is found. The freedom of the sons of God. Right. And how do we do that? By being given over entirely to the Father through Christ. And Mary herself does that perfectly. We usually translate it. Behold, the handmaid of the Lord. But the Greek word there is slave. Behold, I'm the slave of the Lord. Right. And so by committing ourselves to her, we commit ourselves also to her fiat, to her being totally given over to the Lord. In fact, there's one passage where Louis says that Mary is like the echo of God and that her magnificat sort of sums up everything Mary has to say. So when we say Mary, she says God.

[Taylor Kemp]

That is so.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

It's like she amplifies our praise of God.

[Taylor Kemp]

All right, so we cannot wrap this episode. We cannot wrap this episode without talking about the rosary. We have to do it real quick.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. St. Louis, he actually, after he'd already been a priest for 10 years in 1710, he became a third order Dominican, and he got permission from them to preach the rosary and to start rosary confraternities and so forth. He was absolutely convinced that the rosary is a profound way with and through Mary to be intimate with Jesus. He would talk about the mysteries of the rosary, right. That we meditate on as we. As we pray the Hail Marys on these decades, as, like these 15 pictures that should form the backdrop to our lives, right. That shape our very experience of the world. He also, I like to tell this story. He said, you know, everyone should be able to pray five decades of the rosary every day if you're a child, Right? That's great for kids, but, you know, grownups now, this was, of course, before St. John Paul II had added the luminous mysteries. So there were 15 mysteries. He thought we should say those every day. But he was also, he was such a great pastor. He would say, but if your state of life doesn't allow it, right. Don't use that as an excuse not to do the dishes for your wife. Don't use that as an excuse not to tell your kids a bedtime story. But as your state of life allows it, make that a priority. Spending that time in that intimacy with Jesus that Mary invites us to and shares with us so that Jesus can bring us into the full stature of the sons and Daughters of God.

[Taylor Kemp]

And for much of our Christian life. So much of what we have to do is to acquire a biblical worldview of looking at things, a Christian worldview. And it's so helpful to have something like the rosary because you're just trying to walk through the mysteries of Christ's.

[Dr. John Seehorn]

Life, of our nature, and it helps you read the Bible. St. Louis actually also says that the Bible is a love letter. He uses that language that others have used as well, and he loved to just collect those words. He carried a New Testament with him everywhere and people would ask, what's your rule of life? And he'd be like, the Gospels, obviously the Gospels, yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

And it's just very good at getting that into our imagination, into our life, so that we're thinking in recourse to these mysteries. So it was beautiful. Dr. Seaborn, this was a lot of fun. It's very edifying to talk about the lives of the saints and I'm grateful for your study and expertise and love of St. Louis de Montfort. So we hope that you benefited as well out there. We will see you next time on Catholic Saints. You can watch these interviews in video format by visiting form.org formed is an online Catholic streaming service created by the Augustine Institute and Ignatius Press with award winning studies and parish programs, inspiring audio content, movies, ebooks and family friendly kids programming to support the mission of the Augustine institute. Please visit missioncircle.org.