St. Philip Neri

Summary

Podcast Summary: Catholic Saints – Episode on St. Philip Neri

Podcast Information:

• Title: Catholic Saints
• Host/Author: Augustine Institute
• Episode: St. Philip Neri
• Release Date: May 26, 2025

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Introduction

In the May 26, 2025 episode of Catholic Saints, produced by the Augustine Institute, host Taylor Kemp, the Director of Formed, engages in an enlightening conversation with the venerable Dr. Carl Venustrom. The episode delves into the life, legacy, and spiritual contributions of St. Philip Neri, a beloved Catholic saint known for his jovial spirit and profound holiness.

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Personal Connections and Introduction to St. Philip Neri

Taylor Kemp begins the discussion by highlighting a personal connection Dr. Venustrom has with St. Philip Neri:

“I got married on his feast day, May 26th, so. And my first son is named Philip after Saint Philip Neri.”
(00:29

This anecdote sets a warm tone for exploring St. Philip's impact not just historically but personally to individuals today.

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St. Philip Neri’s Mission in Rome

Dr. Carl Venustrom explains St. Philip Neri’s pivotal role in Rome:

“He’s called the Apostle to Rome because Rome, being a Christian city, had lost its way in a lot of respects and needed a new apostle.”
(02:18

St. Philip dedicated approximately 60 years of his life to Rome, transforming it during a period marked by the Counter Reformation. His work focused on revitalizing the faith and combating the secular influences that had taken hold in the city.

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Historical Context and Influences

Born in 1515, the same year as St. Teresa of Avila, St. Philip Neri emerged during the tumultuous times of the Protestant Reformation:

“And he's part of this reform, too. And then there's the Counter Reformation.”
(03:23

Dr. Venustrom emphasizes the significance of the Council of Trent as a cornerstone of the Counter Reformation, which St. Philip contributed to through his reformative zeal.

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Influence of Savonarola and Dominican Education

St. Philip was deeply influenced by Girolamo Savonarola, a reforming Dominican preacher known for his “Fire of Vices”:

“He credited the education he received from the Dominicans with sort of everything for his life.”
(05:32

Though Savonarola had been executed decades before St. Philip’s birth, his reformist spirit and moral rigor left an indelible mark on St. Philip, shaping his approach to ministry in Rome.

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Monastic Influences and Personal Discipline

St. Philip’s education under the Benedictines instilled a deep monastic spirit, characterized by contemplation and asceticism, despite him never becoming a monk:

“He had a strict regime of fasting, and he loved the sayings of the desert fathers.”
(07:48

This blend of monastic discipline and joyous charisma made St. Philip a unique figure, balancing intense personal piety with a vibrant communal presence.

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Relationship with St. Ignatius of Loyola

Upon moving to Rome, St. Philip formed a meaningful relationship with St. Ignatius of Loyola, founder of the Jesuits:

“They had deep admiration and respect for each other.”
(08:43

St. Ignatius esteemed St. Philip as the “belle of the society”, appreciating his ability to inspire and mobilize young men towards the Society of Jesus. Their collaboration underscored a shared commitment to education and evangelization, albeit through different methodologies.

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Founding the Oratory

St. Philip Neri is renowned for founding the Oratory, a congregation of secular priests who live in community without taking religious vows:

“He founded kind of accidentally the, the oratory, which is a congregation of secular priests.”
(18:15

This institution emphasized freedom, community living, and a focus on pastoral care, setting a precedent that influenced future figures like St. John Henry Newman.

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Mystical Experiences and Spirituality

St. Philip’s spirituality was marked by profound mystical experiences:

“He had a deep mystical union with Christ.”
(17:31

One notable event involved a descent of the Holy Spirit, leading to physical manifestations such as the enlargement of his heart and the compartmentalization of spiritual fervor with physical endurance.

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Engagement with the Community and Joyful Spirit

Despite his intense spiritual practices, St. Philip was known for his joyful and jovial nature:

“He was just famous for his joy. Or second is he's very famous for his joy that this is a fruit of the Holy Spirit.”
(23:00

His ability to blend deep piety with a light-hearted demeanor made spiritual discussions accessible and engaging, fostering a welcoming environment for faith exploration.

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The Seven Church Pilgrimage

St. Philip initiated the Seven Church Pilgrimage, a devotion that involved visiting multiple churches in Rome:

“He made famous the Seven Church pilgrimage.”
(14:26

This practical form of devotion provided pilgrims with spiritual guidance and a structured way to engage with the sacred sites of Rome, especially during the Jubilee year when many pilgrims flocked to the city.

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Legacy and Modern Application

The legacy of St. Philip Neri is evident in contemporary Catholic practices, particularly through the Oratory’s influence on St. John Henry Newman:

“John Henry Newman become an oratorian which began with St. Philip Neri. So he kind of carries on that same concept.”
(19:23

St. Philip’s model of community, education, and joyful discipleship serves as a replicable framework for modern Catholic ministry, encouraging laypeople and clergy alike to foster spiritual growth through simple yet profound communal interactions.

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Key Insights and Takeaways

1. Obedience to God’s Will: Both St. Philip Neri and St. Ignatius of Loyola exemplify sainthood through their unwavering obedience to God’s calling, albeit through different ministries—missionary work versus urban evangelization.

2. Balancing Discipline and Joy: St. Philip demonstrated that rigorous spiritual discipline need not stifle joy; instead, it can enhance one’s humanity and relational warmth.

3. Community and Accessibility: The founding of the Oratory and the Seven Church Pilgrimage highlight the importance of community-centered spiritual practices that are accessible and engaging to all.

4. Mystical Union: St. Philip’s mystical experiences illustrate a deep, personal union with Christ, serving as an inspiration for living a life consecrated to God’s love.

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Conclusion

The episode on St. Philip Neri offers a comprehensive exploration of a saint whose life seamlessly blended reformative zeal, joyful spirituality, and innovative community-building. Dr. Carl Venustrom and Taylor Kemp provide listeners with both historical context and practical applications of St. Philip’s legacy, encouraging a deeper understanding and emulation of his saintly virtues in contemporary faith life.

As Dr. Venustrom aptly concludes with a reflection from The Maxims of St. Philip Neri:

“Let us strive after purity of heart, for the Holy Spirit dwells in candid and simple minds.”
(24:05

This call to purity and simplicity encapsulates the enduring relevance of St. Philip Neri’s spiritual legacy.

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For more enriching content and to explore further interviews, visit formed.org or join the Augustine Institute Mission Circle.

Transcript

[Taylor Kemp]

You're listening to a podcast on Catholic Saints. This podcast is produced by the Augustine Institute, an apostolate helping Catholics understand, live, and share their faith. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Catholic Saints. Today we are talking about St. Philip Neri. I'm Taylor Kemp, the director of formed, and with me is the venerable Dr. Carl Carl Venustrom.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

I'm glad that I'm already venerable.

[Taylor Kemp]

That's incredible.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

That's awesome.

[Taylor Kemp]

You've already made it along. You were on the path to sainthood. The sanctifying grace of Christ is in you.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Agreed.

[Taylor Kemp]

So that is Good. Okay. So, Dr. Venustrom, what do you teach here at the Augusta Institute?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

I teach church history, so primarily patristics, especially sort of on the eastern side. And dear to St Philip Neri's heart monasticism. Yeah, that's an interest of mine. So.

[Taylor Kemp]

Okay, that is a nice segue. So today we are talking about St. Philip Neri. Where should. Where. Where shall we begin?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Well, you can begin with me, I guess, because I. I got married on his feast day, May 26th, so. And my first son is named Philip after Saint Philip Neri.

[Taylor Kemp]

Was the marriage on his visa intentional, or did that just happen to shake out?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

It kind of just happened to shake out. Yeah. Yeah. We were like, yeah, trying to find. I forget all the details, but ultimately part of it was going to Rome. So I had, like, a summer fellowship where St. Philip Neri is an important person.

[Taylor Kemp]

So say more. Why is he an important person?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, so he spent the, like, the last 60 years of his life in Rome, I guess, between about 20 and 80 between those years. And so there are multiple churches that are important in his story, and his body is interred in. In one of them, Chiesa Nuovo. And he's called the Apostle to Rome because Rome, being a Christian city, had lost its way in a lot of respects and needed a new apostle. I mean, it's. He's kind of an appropriate saint, I think. I think about this often, that he's kind of an appropriate saint for the Augustine Institute to hold on to because of. Because of the new evangelization.

[Taylor Kemp]

Okay, for what reasons?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, so he desired to. In kind of the middle of his life, after his group had gotten started, he and his friends had this desire to go to India and preach and be martyred, and this sort of good and classic desire for saints to have. And he went to a Cistercian who was nearby and got the advice that Rome was his India.

[Taylor Kemp]

So it is sometimes a difficult thing to be called just simply to where one is rather than the Earth.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, yeah, that's exactly right. So he had to. He had to stay put and evangelize the people who needed it from him, I guess.

[Taylor Kemp]

Nice. Okay, so let's. Let's back up a little bit to. Before. What do we do? You know when he was born?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, he was born 15. 15. The same year as St. Teresa of Avila.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah, very nice. Okay. And that is 1515 is very near to the famous Protestant Reformation.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

That's right. Yep, yep, exactly. And so. Yeah, and there are certain elements of. Well, yeah, so he's. He's part of this reform, too. And then there's the Counter Reformation. So there's a lot of interesting stuff going on.

[Taylor Kemp]

Can you define for us what the Counter Reformation is?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, this is the response of the Catholic Church to the Reformation.

[Taylor Kemp]

Okay.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

The Council of Trent is an important aspect of that. Responding to the challenging of Catholic doctrine that. That came from the Protestants.

[Taylor Kemp]

Okay.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

And, yeah. And it might be helpful to think about St. Philip Neri in terms of other saints. We were just talking about St. John Henry Newman. He has these really, this. This wonderful set of sermons that he gives about St. Philip Nery. John Henry Newman is in the oratory, which is this congregation that St. Philip Neri started. Anyways, he. He says you should think about him in terms of St. Benedict. Sorry, St. Dominic. St. Benedict, and then St. Ignatius. So the reasons he says this are sort of historical. Okay. St. Philip Neri, born 1515 in Florence, was raised in the faith at San Marco, which is a really famous, not an abbey, but a house of Dominicans. So a lot of the really famous paintings by Fra Angelico are at St. Mark. And there was, before Philip Neri's life, Savonarola, this fiery Dominican preacher, kind of moralist, who hated a lot of the Renaissance decadence, was. Was very important. And he was condemned and then killed, but his sort of reforming spirit lived on. And anyways, St. Philip Neri credited the education he received from the Dominicans.

[Taylor Kemp]

Okay.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

With sort of everything for his life.

[Taylor Kemp]

And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't St. Philip Neri keep a portrait of Savonarola on his desk?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

That's right. Yeah. So this is.

[Taylor Kemp]

He was clearly impacted by Savonarola.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Definitely. And after Savonarola's death, decades after, and I mean, he died before Philip was born, his teachings came up for condemnation. And St. Philip prayed very fervently that he wouldn't be condemned. And he wasn't in the end, but, yeah, still a very controversial figure. And then. Sorry, go ahead.

[Taylor Kemp]

Well, I was just going to say. And Savannah roll, as Dr. Benistrom just said, is he was a reforming figure in Florence. He was famous for the Fire of Vanities, where he. He basically invites everyone to kind of shed the decadence of the Renaissance, that this isn't true to the gospel and just burn it.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, people did, and they were burning your Beatles tapes or whatever.

[Taylor Kemp]

Throw in the dresses, throw in the china. Get rid of it all. This isn't gospel, Po. Throw it all in there. And people did. And he called people to conversion and they responded. And then it's interesting because St. Philip Neri becomes very much known as a reforming saint, but he goes about it in a very different way. But he was nevertheless inspired by Savonarola, so we are continuing to get ahead. So he's inspired by Savonarola and, as you said, the Dominicans and then.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Right, yeah. But there is this difference, I think John Henry Newman says he quotes the line from Scripture, he didn't break a bruised reed.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

So this is the big difference between.

[Taylor Kemp]

Him and, like, the mildness in him.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, he's kind of this saint of gentleness. Yeah, in a lot of ways. And then the next one would be the Benedictines or Saint Benedict. So he was near Monte Cassino for a while, and he has this kind of real monastic spirit. Even though he never became a monk. He eventually became a secular priest, but he was given to long periods of contemplation and a kind of hidden but intense asceticism. He's known as sort of this jokester saint, but, yeah, he had a strict regime of fasting, and he loved the sayings of the desert fathers.

[Taylor Kemp]

So near and dear to your heart.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, yeah. Which I love also. And a lot of those stories, I don't know if you read them now, they can seem, I don't know, sort of like grotesquely intense or something, like. But. But this is something that deeply fascinated him and shaped him. So Benedict would be the next one. There's this monastic spirit, even though he was never a monk and never lived in a community. A monastic community. Exactly. But that was very important. And then when you get to Rome, So when he moves to rome when he's 20, he meets St. Ignatius, actually. So they had deep admiration and respect for. For each other. And so Newman wants us to see these two together. And actually, ignatius said of St. Philip Neri that he's the. The belle of the society because while he wasn't running his own thing yet, St. Philip Neri sent so many young Men to the Society of Jesus, to the, to the Jesuits. And they, they both had this fervent desire to, to teach and preach, but in very different ways. And they also had a keen sense for the difference between just doing ascetic things, fasting, keeping vigil, and the difference between just the acts themselves, but then also having this kind of mental discipline over your thoughts and over pride especially.

[Taylor Kemp]

So say a little bit more there. So we're contrasting a little bit about external asceticism. But then he was. What did he always say? He would take three fingers and tap his forehead.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

I don't know this one.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah. I can't remember the exact story, but he would say that the greatest mortification is of the mind. And he would say that that is what was so necessary, like for people of that day. I wanted to add a little commentary. There was something that I was thinking of when you were talking about his kind of love of the monastic life, though never being a monk. But it's very fitting too that he was formed by the Benedictines and had this. But I remember in reading the Life of Benedict that one of the lines that stuck out to me is after Benedict had been in the desert and had been in his cell in the cave for a long time and he came out and there was something that his fate, he. He retained his radiance and kind of just humanity. Like he wasn't completely a shell of himself because he had been living in a cave for so long. And there's something about St. Philip that he, he was taking on penances and he lived a very disciplined life, yet he had this very joyful, jovial, easy going spirit where you would probably not guess that he was this incredible, A very disciplined man interiorly.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

And that living the Christian life in the way that God calls us makes us more human. It doesn't turn you into some zombie.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, that's right.

[Taylor Kemp]

All the time. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

And there's. And I think part of that's on purpose for him. He deeply despised the limelight, even though he was this very vivacious, sort of attractive personality. And once he became more famous and people were coming to him all the time, he sort of used jokes and irony and all this kind of stuff to deflect, downplay from the attention because he wanted his sort of, his mystical relationship to God to be mystical, to be hidden, to be secret and to be sort of intimate. And so when there are these sort of famous ladies or whatever coming to.

[Taylor Kemp]

Him or popes and cardinals.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Popes and cardinals, yeah. Or other saints, St. Charles, Borromeo. But, yeah. Anyways, I think part of the joking and this kind of thing is to keep his life with God secret and not to be shown for everyone.

[Taylor Kemp]

So I want to provide, continue to give a little bit of a grounding for the listeners. So he's born in 1515. He is formed by the Dominicans, then he goes to the Benedictine school, and then he goes to Rome. So what's going on for him once he gets to Rome, which was around 1534.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah. So this is interesting because he gets to Rome and he doesn't necessarily have, like, a great plan for what he's going to do. He ends up being a tutor.

[Taylor Kemp]

And I wanted to add, sorry, the Rome is in shambles.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

The Rome that he comes to is not. The Rome we think of is a total mess.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah. It's been sort of ravaged by the Spaniards and the Germans, I think. Yeah. So it's in a kind of sorry state. But there are a lot of Florentines there who value above all, sort of culture and beauty and all the things that Savonarola really despised.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah. So, yeah, he's a tutor. He lives a very modest life. And he. He's also called the Roman Socrates by some because he just sort of wanders around and, like, talks to people. So anytime there's sort of a group, he's, like, in the group, like, poking and prodding people and. But he was so attractive as a personality. People, like, accepted the fact that he was going to say something a little biting that, like, pricked their conscience.

[Taylor Kemp]

He could get away.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

That was sort of part of the fun, is that. Yeah. So there's a lot of this for a long time. And he. People just follow him around. So he. He eventually attaches himself to this priest and that they're part of this congregation who. Who value frequent communion. Freaking frequent.

[Taylor Kemp]

Which was not common.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Which was not common at the time. Individual kind of prayer. Prayer meetings. And so eventually he has these people following him and someone suggests that he becomes a priest. And he has never considered this idea, but he says, like, okay, fine. And he's been sort of educated already, so he is quickly ordained a priest. And then one of the practices was for, like, in the late afternoon or early evening that people would come up to his room. And he had a tiny room, but in this church. But they would read from scripture or from, like, the sayings of desert fathers and talk. And he valued above all, getting other people to talk. So that's kind of part of the Socratic element, getting other people to talk about these things, and then they would take these long walks and oftentimes to different churches throughout Rome.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah, he made famous the Seven Church pilgrimage.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Correct. Exactly, exactly.

[Taylor Kemp]

And, you know, he was a great precursor to St. John. Boston is kind of an apostle to the youth, and there's something so practical and that St Philip Neri was like, well, you're not going to get a bunch of young kids to just sit around and talk about God or sit in church. Let's go for a walk, we'll talk about it. And you're like, yeah, that's so human. And it makes so much sense.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah. And there's stories like, one of his eventual students, Baronius, was a very serious scholar, so he was working silently, and there's all this noise from St. Philip Neri's room, and it's these boys, like, making a ruckus. And so he comes up and chastises them. And St Philip Neri responds that if they're staying away from sin, they can chop wood on my back for all I care. So it's like he can deal with all the, like, the yelling and the shouting and the boys, when he put.

[Taylor Kemp]

First things first, like.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, exactly.

[Taylor Kemp]

I just want these boys to not be getting into trouble.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, that's exactly right. And yeah. Which is kind of like a scene from the sayings of the Desert Fathers. There's. There's these principles, but they need to be applied. And he was a kind of genius at applying them in a way that could get people could hook them.

[Taylor Kemp]

I want to talk about a couple other things, too, during his time in Rome. One is he has a deep mystical experience at some point while he's there. Did you want to dive into that? If not, I'm happy to recount.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, that's right. So in general, especially as he progressed through life, he had a hard time talking about spiritual topics or celebrating Mass without going into a kind of ecstasy in his prayer. And one instance of this was sort of descent of the Holy Spirit upon him, which resulted in the physical enlargening of his heart and the like, breaking of ribs, which then, like, healed in a sort of bump over his heart, if that's right.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

And another result of this is, like, he was always warm, so, like, he would do these vigils outside in the freezing cold, but, like, being like, shorts and a T shirt, as it were.

[Taylor Kemp]

And I think people could hear his heart.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

That's right. People can hear his heart. Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

And I think he was in the Catacombs when this happened, because I think he was. Yeah, he had a great. I mean, he. I think by his own accord, he was called an urban hermit because he spent in Rome. And I believe this was before he was ordained a priest, and then it continued on after he was ordained a priest. But he would. He loved going into the catacombs and praying at the tombs of the saints and the martyrs. And it was during that time that I think, I think he recounts a ball of fire entered into his. Through his mouth, into his chest, and then that's where the expansion of his heart happened then. So this is a man clearly marked by a deep mystical union with Christ. And then it's lived out in like a beautiful, joyful, kind of jovial spirit.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

Just a couple other things that I know have been famous about him is he was known also as a. Just a great confessor and would devote hours and hours and hours to the confessional, which was beautiful. And then, you know, as you said earlier, that he, he really. I think he started the seven church devotion.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

That's right.

[Taylor Kemp]

Of taking people around. And he was. I believe that that started there was a jubilee year, and all of a sudden thousands of pilgrims were coming to Rome and they needed help. They needed people to take care of them. They needed guidance. And he was like, this is a, you know, I can serve this group. And he started taking people around on the seven church pilgrimage, which is just great.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

Practical devotion.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah. The other thing worth mentioning is that he, he founded kind of accidentally the, the oratory, which is a congregation of secular priests. So it's not a religious order with vows.

[Taylor Kemp]

Can you also define what is a secular priest?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, a secular priest would be like your parish priest who's under the authority of the bishop and. Yeah, your, Your, your standard. Not in the Benedictines, not in the Dominicans.

[Taylor Kemp]

I remember the first time I read secular priests, I was like, I'm lost. What in the world is a secular priest? A priest?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah. No, not quite.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yes. Okay. So he, he founded the oratory, which is a congregation of secular priests.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, that's right. So they, they live in community together, but their congregation is marked by a kind of freedom. So, yeah, there's a sort of willing obedience, but it doesn't have the same structural elements that other, like a religious.

[Taylor Kemp]

Order would have, just order. And then. Can you talk to a little bit more about John Harry Newman, who, Who takes up the idea of an oratory because he, John Henry Newman becomes an oratorian which began with St. Philip Neri. So he kind of carries on that same concept.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, that's right. So John Henry Newman was an Anglican priest and professor tutor at Oxford. When he converts to Catholicism, then he becomes an oratorian. There's a beautiful oratory in Oxford. Ultimately, I think John Henry Newman founds an oratory in Birmingham.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yes.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

And so there's a kind of parallel to St. Philip Neri's life insofar as St. John Henry Newman has a deep interest in education and teaching children and especially the needy. So I think one of the chief elements of the Birmingham oratory was. Was that to take care of the needy and to take care of education. Obviously he writes, works on education and he's, he's famous for a lot of that.

[Taylor Kemp]

And I think with Neri especially, kind of the. The roots of the oratory were very organic. Like he didn't set out to found an oratory.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Exactly.

[Taylor Kemp]

He just kind of started bringing people together, reading spiritual books and then praying together. And then it took greater form later. But it just. I think it serves as a really great model for us today of if.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

When we're asking ourselves, how can we disciple people? How can we spread the gospel? Well, St. Philip Neri basically was like, let's get some people go anywhere.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

The bar, it can be a restaurant, be a home. It could be a church. And let's read from lies of the saints. Let's read from the Gospels and let's talk about it, and then let's hang out. It's like the most basic.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah. Just like be friends.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah. And you don't have to know everything. You can just read from lies Saint, open it up and let's talk about it.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, exactly. And even for thinking about what ministry looks like as a lay person, I think it's helpful because he did become a priest, but that was kind of an accident and a necessity. Like before that, he was doing all this stuff as. As a lay person. And even the kind of meetings they had, the. Another oratorian, Louis Boyer, says they're sort of a precursor of Protestant revival meetings. It's like you just get together, you read scripture, you talk about it, you sing songs.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

And you're just together in a kind of community. So all of this is possible. You can meet and pray.

[Taylor Kemp]

You can.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

No one, no one's stopping you from. No.

[Taylor Kemp]

So it's great to read the lives of saints. A couple things that I like to kind of distill from his life or one especially when you were contrasting St Philip Neri with St Ignatius of Loyola is these are two very different saints. St. Ignatius goes off and becomes a great missionary. And St. Philip Neri lives in Rome for 60 years and never leaves. But our call is to be holy in the way that the Lord is asking. And that can be a call out to go to places. It can just be to be a missionary at home. But for both of these men, their sainthood lied in obedience to the will of God.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

And that. That can take so many different paths. And just to be holy and cooperate with the Lord's grace in the place that we are and then open to what he's asking of us.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

Just a great model.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, that's exactly right. I like that.

[Taylor Kemp]

Yeah. And then one, he was just famous for his joy. Or second is he's very famous for his joy that this is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. And then he was just great for that. And then kind of to recap our oratory discussion, that this is a model that is eminently. What's the word? Replicable.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

You can do it again.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah.

[Taylor Kemp]

Meet with people. There's. As Catholics, we have a wealth of spiritual books, the sayings of the desert fathers books, writings of the saints, the Gospels. And then all we have to do is get people together to talk about it. You don't have to know everything about them. It's just a great model for us that we can live out in the day to day. Beautiful. Any. Any parting thoughts, comments?

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Maybe I'll just read from.

[Taylor Kemp]

Please.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

The Maxims of St. Philip Neri.

[Taylor Kemp]

Ready for him.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

So this is just a bunch of his sayings that were collected.

[Taylor Kemp]

I didn't know this existed.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Yeah, it's really neat. It's just one for every day of the year. So I'll read today's.

[Taylor Kemp]

Please.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Well, I'll read for his feast day.

[Taylor Kemp]

Okay.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

Because today. This is going on the Internet. Today is any day.

[Taylor Kemp]

Today is any day. That's right.

[Dr. Carl Venustrom]

May. May 26th. Let us strive after purity of heart, for the Holy Spirit dwells in candid and simple minds.

[Taylor Kemp]

Very good. Amen. It's very Good. Thank you, Dr. Vanderstrom. And thank you all of us for joining us. We will see you next time on Catholic Saints. You can watch these interviews in video format by visiting formed.org formed is an online Catholic streaming service created by the Augustine Institute and Ignatius Press with award winning studies and parish programs, inspiring audio content, movies, ebooks, and family friendly kids programming to support the mission of the Augustine institute. Please visit missioncircle.org.