Catholic Saints Podcast – Episode Summary

Podcast: Catholic Saints
Host: Augustine Institute
Guests: Dr. John Seehorn (Academic Dean and Professor of Theology), Mary McGeehan
Episode: St. Proclus of Constantinople
Date: November 20, 2025

Overview of the Episode

This episode dives deep into the life, teachings, and enduring influence of St. Proclus of Constantinople—a Church Father and bishop famous for his defense of orthodox Christology, advocacy for Marian theology, and his pastoral humility. Dr. John Seehorn, specializing in patristics, and host Mary McGeehan discuss St. Proclus’s context, challenges, and legacy, with a special focus on Proclus’s role in the Nestorian controversy and his renowned sermons extolling Mary as Theotokos (Mother of God). The episode emphasizes not only historical facts but also the spiritual lessons Proclus’s life provides for Christians today.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

Proclus’s Early Life and Rise in the Church

• Native Son of Constantinople
  • Proclus is notable for being the first bishop of Constantinople who was actually born there. (00:57)
  • “He was kind of identified as a rising star from a fairly young age… he was instituted as a lector in the church at an early age and was a student of rhetoric. And by all accounts, he was an excellent preacher.” — Dr. Seehorn (01:41)
• Mentorship and Church Service
  • Served as secretary and assistant to Bishop Atticus, eventually ordained deacon and priest under him. (02:00–03:16)

Complicated Path to the Bishopric

• Political Maneuvering and Disappointments
  • After Atticus’s death, Proclus was expected to become bishop but was repeatedly passed over due to competing interests and appointments. (03:52–05:53)
  • “He just decides to stay in Constantinople and sort of becomes popular as a preacher and as a kind of bishop without a church.” — Dr. Seehorn (05:08)
• Acceptance and Patience
  • Proclus’s response to disappointment is discussed as a model of humility and perseverance.

The Nestorian Controversy and Marian Theology

• The Heresy of Nestorius (07:02–08:48)

  • Nestorius, brought in from Antioch, denied the usage of the term “Mother of God” for Mary, sparking theological unrest.
  • Proclus responds by delivering a bold sermon in defense of Mary’s divine motherhood, gaining widespread public support.
  • “On the 26th of December, Proclus got up and in the presence of Nestorius, he gave this absolute firestorm of a sermon in honor of Mary’s divine motherhood and defending the use of the title Theotokos… People loved it. Nestorius immediately got up and tried to start criticizing it, and it looks like they shouted him down, actually.” — Dr. Seehorn (08:48–09:44)

• Theological Significance and Legacy

  • Dr. Seehorn explains Nestorius’s error—separating Christ’s humanity and divinity—and why Proclus’s and St. Cyril of Alexandria’s view preserved the truth of the Incarnation. (10:35–11:24; 11:24–12:59)

Leadership Style: Kindness over Severity

• Contrasts with Nestorius
  • Where Nestorius was rash—destroying heretical chapels and provoking violence—Proclus believed in reconciliation and gentle pastoral care. (13:41–17:02)
  • Notable quote about Nestorius: “He goes out and just starts… like a bull in a china shop.” — Dr. Seehorn (15:19)
• Reconciliation and Healing
  • Proclus famously brought back St. John Chrysostom’s relics to Constantinople, helping to heal lingering wounds from past disputes. (17:02–18:30)
• Anecdote: Conversion of a Pagan Official
  • Proclus’s pastoral effectiveness is illustrated by his care for Volusianus, a pagan imperial official:
    • “If there were three such men as that holy bishop, there would not be a single pagan left in Rome.” — Volusianus (after meeting Proclus) (19:02)

Proclus’s Theological Legacy and Preaching

• Marian Theology – Theotokos
  • Proclus’s sermons elevate Mary’s role in the Incarnation, emphasizing the paradox of the infinite God dwelling within her womb. (20:32–22:09)
    • “He says, whoever saw, whoever heard of God dwelling without restriction in a woman’s womb, heaven itself cannot contain him, and yet a womb did not constrict him.” — Dr. Seehorn (21:10)
• Faith as the Connection to God
  • Proclus extends this idea to all Christians: just as Mary contained the uncontainable God via faith, so too can believers contain Christ in their hearts by faith.
    • “…those who receive the sacred mystery in faith… shall contain me in their hearts, whom heaven itself cannot contain.” — Dr. Seehorn paraphrasing Proclus (22:09)
• Meditation on Blessedness
  • “It’s a unique blessing that she should become the mother of God according to the flesh… But Jesus himself tells us that her real blessedness is her faith.” — Dr. Seehorn (23:08)
  • The episode ties this teaching to Christian participation in the Eucharist and the call to imitate Mary’s faith. (23:47–23:58)

Spiritual Lessons and Final Insights

• Virtues Modeled by St. Proclus (23:58–24:18)
  • Fortitude, patience, gentleness, kindness, and humility—all rooted in deep faith in “the mystery of God with us.”
• Model for Today
  • The episode concludes with a call to imitate Proclus’s humility and openness to God’s action, even amid setbacks.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• On Preaching and Power:
  “He gave this absolute firestorm of a sermon in honor of Mary’s divine motherhood … and this drew wild applause. People loved it. Nestorius immediately got up and tried to start criticizing it, and it looks like they shouted him down, actually.” — Dr. John Seehorn (08:48–09:44)

• On Theological Depth:
  “Heaven itself cannot contain him, and yet a womb did not constrict him.” — St. Proclus, quoted by Dr. Seehorn (21:10)

• On Pastoral Impact:
  “If there were three such men as that holy bishop, there would not be a single pagan left in Rome.” — Volusianus, after meeting Proclus (19:02)

• On Faith and Blessedness:
  “It’s a unique blessing that she should become the mother of God according to the flesh, … but Jesus himself tells us that her real blessedness is her faith.” — Dr. Seehorn (23:08)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:54 – Proclus’s background and early life
• 03:16 – His rise through church ranks and repeated disappointments
• 07:02 – Introduction of Nestorius and beginning of the theological controversy
• 08:48–09:44 – Proclus’s confrontation with Nestorius and defense of Theotokos
• 11:24–12:59 – Consequences of the controversy; Ecumenical Council of Ephesus
• 13:41–17:02 – Style of leadership: gentleness versus severity
• 19:02 – Conversion story: Volusianus
• 20:32–22:09 – Theological legacy: paradox of the incarnation, participation through faith
• 23:08–23:58 – Faith as the path, Eucharistic meditation
• 23:58–24:18 – Proclus’s virtues and model for Christians

Summary Takeaways

St. Proclus of Constantinople emerges not only as a courageous defender of the Church’s doctrine about Christ and Mary but also as a shepherd whose gentleness, humility, and patience offer a compelling Christian witness. His teachings on Mary as Theotokos continue to shape Catholic understanding today, and his emphasis on faith echoes through his pastoral theology—inviting all believers to deeper union with Christ.