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Catholic Saints
Sts. Martha, Mary, & Lazarus
00:17:44
Mary McGeehan and Dr. James Prothro discuss the biblical figures Mary, Martha, and Lazarus who are venerated as Saints in the Catholic Church. We meet Mary, Martha, and Lazarus in the Gospel of Luke and then again in the Gospel of John. Following the example of this holy family, we can learn how to be a friend of Christ and invite Him into our homes and our hearts.
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- [00:02]
A
You're listening to a podcast on Catholic Saints. This podcast is produced by the Augustine Institute, an apostolate helping Catholics understand, live, and share their faith.
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B
Welcome to Catholic Saints. We're here for Another episode on St. Mary, Martha and Lazarus. And today I AM joined with Dr. James Prothero, and my name's Mary. If I'd introduce myself. Hello. Thank you for joining us on this episode. And Dr. Prothero, where do we learn about Mary, Martha and Lazarus?
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A
It's great to be here, Mary, and just to introduce you, since you barely did it yourself, we're here with the amazing Mary McGeehan. We learn about Saints Mary, Martha and Lazarus from the New Testament, especially in two, three chapters, I guess. So. One of them is in Luke chapter 10, where we meet Mary and Martha. And this is a famous story where Jesus comes, He's received in their house. They all live in Bethany, which is not far from Jerusalem. And Mary and Martha receive Jesus into the house. And Martha is doing the kitchen work, doing the hospitality work, and Mary just sits at Jesus's feet. And Martha complains to Jesus and says, make her help me. Don't you care that she's not helping? And Jesus says, she's actually chosen the more important thing and she can sit at my feet and listen to me all day if she wants to.
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B
It's a very relatable moment in scripture.
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A
I know, right?
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B
Easy to put yourself in both of those characters.
- [01:40]
A
I know. And it's easy to overread it. We can talk about it in a second. But then with all three of them, Mary, Martha, and Lazarus, we get all three of them in John's gospel, especially chapters 11 and 12. And this is where Jesus goes to Bethany after Lazarus has died and meets Martha, who comes out to meet him, meets Mary after that, and then calls Lazarus forth from the tomb and raises him from the dead. And then this is what this is kind of in John's Gospel, this is the last thing that gets us started with Passion Week. We turn the page. At the end of Lazarus being raised, the people in Jerusalem start to like him more and at the same time start to hate him more, right? And be more afraid that he's going to cause trouble. And so it really sets the stage for what happens in the next chapter, which is Palm Sunday, right? So Jesus is anointed by Mary at Martha's house with Lazarus there. And then. And then he goes into Jerusalem. And lots of people are like, yay, yay, yay. He's the guy. We heard he rose raised somebody from the Dead. And then the others are like, here he comes. Let's get rolling on taking him down.
- [02:51]
B
No, I remember that. And that phrase, you know, to lay one's life down for a friend. I think Jesus really did lay down his life for his friend Lazarus, which was one of the miracles, the final straw that started the passion, like you mentioned.
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A
Yeah, that's right. That's right.
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B
And Lazarus, is he also celebrated on the same day as Mary and Martha?
- [03:12]
A
I think so, yeah. So I think this whole family is commemorated on the 29th of July.
- [03:18]
B
Wonderful. Great.
- [03:19]
A
I love reading all of the stories about this family together. So if we think about the figure of Mary of Bethany, the church has always seen her as a kind of figure of contemplation, right. And a lavish love for Jesus. So especially from Luke 10, where she's sitting at his feet instead of doing the housework. So you'll find throughout, right. The history of the church people comparing Mary to a contemplative life. Right. Or a consecrated life. Right. We are the people who sit at the feet of Jesus, right. And just spend our time learning and in prayer. Whereas Martha is more the active life instead of contemplative. Right. She's the one making the food. She's the one making sure everybody's taken care of. And she needs to kind of watch the complaining a little bit. Right. Cause it's hard work. And you have different people, right. At different times. Different things are needed. Right. Sometimes people, like, see, Jesus says Mary has chosen the better part. Right. This is what's more needful is to listen to my words and be a disciple of mine. And so sometimes, and very often to emphasize the goodness of the contemplative life, Mary is held up as much greater. And in Luke chapter 10, right. She definitely comes off more favorably to the reader of this particular story. Right. Martha gets rebuked, but Mary doesn't. Right? She's chosen the better part. And Mary also is the one who comes and anoints Jesus feet or head with really expensive oil in the beginning of Passion Week in John chapter 12. And the people say, oh, why did you. Could have used this. This money could have been used to give to the poor or to do whatever. Why did you waste it all by buying this special fancy gift and then just pouring it onto Jesus, right? And Jesus rebukes them and says, no, Mary has done what is good. She's getting me ready for burial. Anywhere the gospel is proclaimed, this will be told in memory of her. We don't remember that often enough, Right. That. That act of hers is something Jesus said ought to always be remembered by people who know the Kerygma. Right. The story of salvation.
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B
Why do you think that act was so important? Like, why do you think Jesus really emphasized this moment? Like you were saying, that lavish love, like, do not rebuke that heart, that love's way.
- [05:47]
A
She's got a very full hearted devotion that's sincere. And her act also gets Jesus ready for his burial. Right. It's part of mysteriously. Right. Her act of love is actually part of the mechanism of salvation. It's actually part of the way that the cross comes about. So that's also part of it. Right. It's not just like, you know, her motivation, which they don't really tell us about, or her this or how much it cost or whatever is also part of how the cross happens for our salvation, which is so cool. But also it's, you know, like Jesus says, anybody who gives a cup of cold water to a disciple because that's because of their disciple will receive a great reward. And we need to remember the importance of small acts like this.
- [06:34]
B
You mentioned earlier, Mary, Martha, Lazarus, they're a family. So were they sisters and Lazarus is the brother?
- [06:42]
A
Yeah, yeah. Sisters and brother. So they're siblings.
- [06:46]
B
We just know they were close friends of Jesus. He would spend lots of time with him.
- [06:51]
A
Yeah, they were his hosts, his hangout place when he was close to Jerusalem. And so we see him there with them a couple of times, like in Luke and in John as well, when we meet them for the first time in John's Gospel, they're referred to as friends that he already knows. So it's not his first time there.
- [07:13]
B
Yeah. I'm just struck there by what you just said, that they were his close friends before he really entered, before he had approached Jerusalem. Just in our own life, like, how can we be that place of rest for Jesus too? Or just what an honor that would be to be his at his place of respite, you know, before he entered into his passion.
- [07:38]
A
Well, and we get to be. Right. This is one of the. This is one of the beauties of hospitality. Right. You don't, as the book of Hebrews says. Right. Don't neglect to be hospitable because some people have entertained angels and not known it. Right. Like Abraham with the three people who come and it turns out it's the Lord. Right?
- [07:56]
B
Yes. Right.
- [07:59]
A
It can be easy to think like, well, how can I be a hospitable place for Jesus? But actually when they knock on your door, they're staring you in the face, whoever you haven't opened the door for. You didn't open the door for me when I needed a place, and here I am.
- [08:15]
B
Yeah, I know. And I can easily romanticize that. But also, it's often just very practically, how are you loving Jesus and the people right in front of you?
- [08:23]
A
Yeah, that's right. That's right. And that applies also to something I think is beautiful. If we read Luke 10 alongside John 11 and 12 with Martha, right? Because in Luke 10, Martha seems to get a bad rap, right? But in John 11 and 12, we see Martha in a much more positive light. And it's not because she stopped making food. It's not because she decided she would just sit and stop doing work. Right.
- [08:51]
B
Her active life was inherently bad.
- [08:53]
A
Exactly, exactly. And the church has remembered this too at different times. St. Teresa of Avila, in the way of perfection, is talking to nuns and she says, you would be lucky to be as holy as Martha and active, but you're not. God called you to this life, so you need to be like Mary and you need to get better at it. Right? And so for everybody who's in the active life, we wanna look at Jesus's rebuke to Martha in Luke 10 and say, yeah, I need to remember that taking time for Jesus that is simply prayerful and contemplative is absolutely necessary and is the most important thing. But I need to remember also that the reason that she's in trouble there is not just because she's serving as opposed to sitting, but also because she comes over and tells Jesus to tell Mary to get off her TUC and come help in the kitchen, right? She's jealous, right? And preoccupied, right? Jesus says, martha, Martha, you're concerned or anxious about many things, but only one thing is necessary, right? And that's the thing that Mary has chosen. And I'm not going to take it away from her. But in John 11, when Lazarus has died, Jesus gets word. He waits for two days. We can come back to in a second, and then he comes. We learn the value of proper service and care from Martha. This example here, right? In the Passion Week In John chapter 12, it says, Six days before Passover, Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus was whom Jesus had raised from the dead. And they gave a dinner for him there. And Martha served. And Lazarus was one of those at the table with him. And Mary took a liter of costly perfumed oil and poured it on him. And that's how all that happens. All three of them are playing their roles there. And it's not a problem. Martha is also the one who comes out to Jesus when he first comes after Lazarus has died. And she says, if you'd been here, my brother wouldn't have have died and confesses her faith there. And he says, well, he will rise again. And she says, well, I know he'll rise again at the last day. And he says, I'm the resurrection and the life. Do you believe this? And she says, yes, Lord, I believe that you're the Messiah who's coming into the world. And he says, good, right? She's able to be active and still there in John's gospel, still has her faith bold and fully intact. And Mary is a little bit more vulnerable and emotional in this scene, right? Mary doesn't come out to meet Jesus, she's just sad at home. And so Martha has to go get her, right? She's kind of the big sis, right? She's the mother hen, right? And she has to come out and say, hey, Mary, come see Jesus. And out she comes. And then he talks with Mary and then he cries over Lazarus's tomb. And then he calls Lazarus out from the dead. And then Lazarus eats with Jesus in John 12 and it's great, but with Lazarus also, right? We can think about delays in divine providence in our own lives, right?
- [11:42]
B
That's great.
- [11:43]
A
Imagine being Lazarus. I mean, he's dead, so he's not really experiencing this the same kind of way, right? But Jesus gets word that he's sick when he's sick, and then he says, this is not unto death, which turns out it means he won't stay dead after the sickness, but not that he won't die. So Lazarus dies and Jesus waits on purpose for two whole days. And then he says, okay, let's go to Bethany and we'll see Lazarus after he's dead. And all the disciples are confused, right? They're not yet confident in this portion of the gospel that he can really raise somebody who's been dead for this long. But Jesus goes and he raises him from the dead.
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B
That's a great, great reflection. That delay was very intentional, even in the mystery of it.
- [12:33]
A
That's right. And that hopefully that we can identify with Lazarus sometimes and take consolation in knowing the end that the Lord had in mind for him despite what he let him go through.
- [12:47]
B
Yes. To go back to Mary and Martha. So it's so easy to be a Martha in today's day and age. And you were reflecting on it. But could you summarize again? How can we. What's that key of Being that active person in the world, like, what's the key to make sure we're doing it in a way that's glorifying God and in union with him versus falling into that criticism or judgmental disposition. What we learned from Martha and like what helped her, you know, we don't.
- [13:24]
A
Get like an aha moment for her in the story. But true charity really is when you think about everything that's in First Corinthians 13, right? Love is patient, it's kind, it's not self serving, it doesn't keep a record of wrongs.
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B
Love to keep the score.
- [13:43]
A
Yeah, it's, you know, and that's even harder than being forgiving, right? Because you can remember what somebody did and say, I will forgive you. It's even harder just not to count them up. But that's how resentment builds, right? And when you resent, it comes from. And it reinforces a feeling of being kind of like neglected or downtrodden. It reinforces jealousy, everything else like that, right? But if you're doing it not just so that you can stop doing it, but you're doing it because you love the people that you're serving and you love the Lord in the people that you're serving, then that's a kind of active life, right? If the reason that I change my kids diapers is because it stinks and I don't like it, or because I know people will think I'm a bad dad if the kid clearly hasn't, you know, then like, I mean, that'll do to start, right? Because the diapers need to be changed for the good of the child and the people around, like that's okay to start with. You're not really acting out of charity toward anybody other than yourself and your own convenience, right? But when you look at the person you're caring for and you can see the Lord's image in them, right? Whether it's faint or whether it's full in the way that they're living. That's a whole different kind of thing, right? And that's when you're actually bandaging the wounds of Jesus while you're bandaging the wounds of this other person, right? Or changing the diapers of. Right. To put. Maybe it's a little crass, but changing the diapers of the infant Lord, right? And not just your kid because you hope that they'll stop screaming.
- [15:23]
B
Screaming, right?
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A
And when, when that's there, right, Then it's a lot easier to keep going instead of going, hey, wait a minute, he's not helping me enough.
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B
Right. That is good. Love of. Love of that child.
- [15:36]
A
Yeah.
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B
And then okay, for Mary, what. What's our. What's the downfall? Or what's the way we can slip into vice in a sense if we're leaning too much into the contemplative side.
- [15:50]
A
Yeah. I mean, just to remember that there's a. That contemplation also has to be done in real charity and gazing on. Right. Finding the gaze of the Lord. Because if you're contemplative just because you're an introvert now, those two things can work well together. Right. But it's not contemplation just because you're being quiet and avoiding people.
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B
Yeah.
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A
It's only contemplation if you're really like meditating and seeking the gaze of Jesus and to hear his voice. Right. Being lazy or being introverted is not the same as actually truly being contemplative in a good way. Just in the same way that being active doesn't actually mean active service. If what you are is just really concerned about your own image and wanting to make sure everybody thinks that you're a good helper or a good worker or a hard whatever. Right. Both of those end up being self serving. And so really in either life, and I'm not, clearly I'm active and not contemplative, so I don't have the inside track. But in either one of them, seeking to serve the Lord in the state of life that he's put you in, and to be filled with charity for him and be filled with his charity for him and for others. If we're not doing that, then there's something wrong no matter what our hands actually happen to be doing.
- [17:15]
B
Yes. No, that is a great distinction. Thank you. Well, thank you so much for this reflection about this family, Saints Mary Martha and Lazarus. We greatly appreciate it. Did we miss anything or think we about covered at all?
- [17:31]
A
I think we're all right. Go read John 11:12 and Luke 10 if you want to think and read and meditate a little bit more on these figures.
- [17:41]
B
Wonderful. Thank you and thank you all for listening.