Bigger Cattle, Bigger Questions: Feed Costs, Corn Demand, and Pasture Lease Strategies

Summary

Cattle Chat Podcast Summary

Episode: Bigger Cattle, Bigger Questions: Feed Costs, Corn Demand, and Pasture Lease Strategies
Date: July 17, 2026
Host and Panelists: Brad White (A), Bob (C), Scott (B), Philip (D), Dustin (E)
Podcast by: Beef Cattle Institute at Kansas State University

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Episode Overview

This episode explores two listener-generated topics relevant to the beef industry:

1. The impact of increasing finished cattle weights on corn use, feed efficiency, and market effects.
2. Approaches to structuring pasture leases when significant improvements like fencing and water are required.
   Panelists provide in-depth analysis and practical tips for producers, referencing calculations, market trends, and first-hand experiences.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Cattle Size, Corn Use, and Market Impacts

([04:26]–[16:16])

How Much More Corn Is Used for Heavier Cattle?

• Calculation Walkthrough:
  • Average carcass weight up 36 lbs
  • Dressing percentage: assumed 63% ⇒ 57 lbs live weight gain needed ([04:26])
  • Feed conversion: 6 pounds dry matter per pound of gain ⇒ 342 lbs extra feed/head
  • 75% of ration from corn ⇒ ~257 lbs extra corn/head, which is 4.5 bushels
  • Scaled to 27 million head = 6.9 billion pounds (124 million bushels) of additional corn ([05:47])
• Market Perspective:
  • This extra use equals only 0.8% of total U.S. annual corn use and 8% of average year-end stock ([06:51]).
• Panel Consensus:
  • The additional corn demand is “definitely noticeable, but... not going to be a huge impact” on markets ([08:48] – Dustin).

Impact on Feed Conversion and Average Daily Gain

• As cattle approach mature size, rate of gain and feed conversion decrease ([09:31]).
• Carcass transfer effect:
  • Later in the feeding period, more gain is retained in valuable carcass rather than offal.
  • “As we get closer and closer to that mature size… a higher proportion of the gain that's in the carcass and less in the offal.” ([09:31] – Philip)
• Economic takeaway:
  • Heavier weights profitable when selling on a carcass basis.
  • “Value of each pound of carcass gain is still more than my cost to gain.” ([12:51] – Philip)

Dressing Percentage Changes

• Dressing percentage increases as cattle get fatter due to more carcass fat ([12:09]).
• For young/feeder calves: ~50-55%; for finished, heavy cattle: low–mid 60% ([10:52]).

Market and Industry Chain Implications

• Feedlots balance pen space and corn/feed supply with cattle placement and marketing timing ([13:19]).
• Larger cattle help maintain total beef supply despite historically low cattle inventory—a response to strong consumer demand and multiple challenges (drought, high interest rates, etc.) ([14:45]–[15:31]):
  • “By adding these extra pounds, we're actually keeping beef prices lower for the consumer because otherwise beef prices would actually be higher...” ([15:31] – Philip).
• Uncertain if this is a permanent trend or cyclical ([16:16]).

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2. Pasture Lease Strategies for Improved Crop Ground

([16:16]–[24:09])

Structuring a Lease for Land Improvements

• Challenge: Producer wants to lease nearby crop ground for pasture but must invest in fences, water, and seeding grass.
• Initial Considerations ([17:14] – Scott):
  • Open communication is “everything”—negotiations must be clear on investments, responsibilities, and duration.
  • Longer-term leases help justify producer’s upfront investment.
  • Define what happens to improvements (e.g., fencing, water) at lease end.

Real-World Approaches & Flexibility

• Example arrangement: Producer buys materials, supplies labor, receives reduced or extended lease ([18:17] – Dustin)
• Key: “Communication is the key thing. Figure out what the arrangement is” ([19:03] – Dustin).
• Reference university extension cost surveys to estimate fair pricing and terms (e.g., agmanager.info, local land-grant resources).

Alternative Strategies

• Consider temporary fencing (e.g., high-tensile electric fence)—cheaper, less permanent, and easier to remove if short-term ([19:40] – Philip).
• Temporary water solutions may be suitable for short grazing periods.

Other Lease Considerations ([20:19] – Scott)

• Explicitly negotiate animal in/out dates, weather contingencies, and even fence “cosmetics.”
• For crop ground, consider potential future value changes (if corn prices rise, land may revert to cropping).

Matching Landowner and Producer Goals

• Landowners may have motivations beyond rent (e.g., land improvement, recreation), so producer must “fully understand what the landowner wants” ([20:56] – Bob).
• “If you want a long term lease, I need to meet their needs. It might be cosmetic, it might be soil restoration, it might be rental income.” ([21:22] – Bob)

Importance of Written Agreements

• “You got to get everything in writing. I mean I'm sure there are a lot of handshake agreements but...try to avoid misunderstandings by writing it down.” ([22:12] – Dustin)
• If investments can’t be justified on a short lease, it may be better to walk away ([22:29] – Brad).

Useful Resources

• agmanager.info for Kansas-specific data (and as a reference for other regions)
• Local extension and land-grant university cost and lease resources

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On corn demand and market impact:
  • “It comes out to about four and a half bushels of corn per head... That's roughly 124 million bushels we need for feed. We have 1.5 billion left over. So that's only 0.8% of the corn...so there's still a lot.” ([06:51] – Dustin)
• On economic drivers of heavier cattle:
  • “By adding these extra pounds, we're actually keeping beef prices lower for the consumer because otherwise beef prices would actually be higher than they are now if we were still feeding cattle, you know, 40 pounds of carcass less...” ([15:31] – Philip)
• On pasture lease arrangements:
  • “Communication is the key thing. Figure out what the arrangement is.” ([19:03] – Dustin)
  • “You got to get everything in writing...try to avoid misunderstandings by writing it down.” ([22:12] – Dustin)
• On balancing producer/landowner needs:
  • “People own land for lots of different reasons...the person that's grazing cattle on it needs to fully understand what the landowner wants. If you want a long-term lease, I need to meet their needs.” ([20:56] – Bob)
• Practical tip:
  • “Maybe I could put in a temporary type fencing like some high-tensile electric fence or something like that. That would be a little less expensive to put in and a whole lot easier to take out...” ([19:40] – Philip)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [04:26] – Detailed calculation of added corn for heavier cattle (Dustin)
• [09:31] – Feed conversion and carcass transfer explanation (Philip)
• [13:19] – Market-side and feeding decision implications (Bob/Panel)
• [16:16] – Introduction to pasture lease question and improvement dilemmas
• [17:14] – Fundamental principles of lease communication and structuring (Scott)
• [19:40] – Suggestions for temporary infrastructure (Philip)
• [20:56] – Balancing landowner/producer goals and motivations (Bob)
• [22:12] – The necessity of written agreements (Dustin)

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Episode Tone & Style

The hosts maintain a conversational, informative, and practical tone, highlighting both the economic and day-to-day management aspects of beef production. They balance technical analysis with real-world experience and straightforward advice.

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For more listener questions or resources, visit the Beef Cattle Institute at Kansas State University or email [e-mail].

Transcript

[A]

Hi, welcome to BCI Cattle Chat. I'm Brad White. Happy to have you with us and happy to have our crew here in the studio. Morning, Scott.

[B]

Good morning, Bob.

[C]

Hello everybody.

[A]

Philip.

[D]

Hello guys.

[E]

Dustin, good morning.

[A]

So we're happy to have you guys here because we've got two great listener questions we're going to talk through today. One about as cattle size increases through the feed yard, what does that do to corn use? What does that do to or other aspects of the cattle industry? I know we've talked about bigger cattle before, but looking into that a little bit deeper. Also we're going to talk about pasture leases and how you might set those up. So we appreciate those listener questions. If you have a listener question for us, you can reach out to us on social media or you can send us an email to bcisu Edu. Before we get into those questions, guys, I wanted to, wanted to tell you. So our 12 year old recently discovered cassette tapes and he thinks cassettes are really cool.

[C]

They may know if they're going to make a comeback.

[A]

Yeah, I don't know if they're going to make a comeback or not, but I wanted to know what was the, either the last or your favorite cassette that you had. What was your, what was your cassette that you had in your vehicle with you that you had your go to song on?

[D]

First question, do you still have anything that will play a cassette tape?

[A]

We don't, but don't get bogged down in the details here. Phillips.

[C]

I still do.

[A]

Bob's still got a cassette, eight track.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So I made my own cassettes when I was in high school, you know, so you'd listen to the radio or you'd play the record and record it. And so I had my favorite was

[A]

the homemade mixtape that you recorded off the radio. You got the DJ doing the lead in.

[C]

That was my favorite. I ran that thing till it post.

[A]

Yeah. See the one thing that our son doesn't understand is you can't just push play and it plays exactly where you want or the track. Oh no, you gotta fast forward and rewind. So it's a good thing we don't have a player. Scott.

[B]

I had some Roy D. Mercer cassettes. Like the prank calls, the guy from radio station in Oklahoma and he'd like prank call people, you know, and I don't know where I got them, but I had four or five of those and listened to them all the time.

[A]

Awesome.

[D]

Philip? I don't know, I just, I remember, I mean growing up in the early 90s when I had my first vehicle, Alan Jackson, John Michael Montgomery, Big Little Texas. I had several tapes that I can remember those. But one comment back to Bob's comment, piggyback off it. So my boys when they were younger, the first phone that they had was a flip phone and so you couldn't, so they would play a song on my phone on Spotify and have their phone recording it and so then they could listen to it on their, their

[C]

flip, see things come back around.

[A]

That's perfect because you, well I can remember you'd sit there by the radio waiting for your song to come on so you could click record. Dustin.

[E]

I mean just vaguely remember like Metallica but but me personally, I was big into recording, making my own. So I did the exact same as Bob. I just made my own mixtapes and so that's what we did.

[C]

Yeah, and you can just run those forever.

[B]

They used to be meaningful gifts too and now it's just like you.

[E]

So what's crazy, it's not my 12 year old but my 19 year old just bought a record player and so he's been buying.

[C]

Yeah, my daughter bought a record player too.

[E]

Yeah, started going, doing that there.

[A]

Now those really are coming back because my son got one also and he was like oh, the sound is so much better. And I go really? I do not understand that. So but he likes it. First, first listener question for you guys and I think this is a really good one. We've talked a couple times that, that cattle are finishing at a heavier weight, which means more days on feed. And so the listener ask average carcass weight is 36 pounds heavier. How much corn does that take and does it have an effect on corn stocks or usage? And then there's some follow up questions but I want to address that one first. And does that take, does that take more corn and if so, how much? And Dustin, I'm going to turn to you.

[E]

So yep, I, I, I'm glad I saw it earlier this morning because I worked through some of the math and you guys correct me if I'm wrong or tell me where I'm wrong. So I assumed a 36lb carcass and I did confirm. Yeah, that depends on what quarter, what year you're looking at. But it's anywhere from 32 to 3536 pounds. So I assumed a 30 or 63% dressing percentage. So you work through the Math, that's about £57 36 divided by 0.63. I assumed a six pound dry matter. Feed intake, feed conversion. Feed conversion. So that's 57 pounds times a six. That's additional 342 pounds of dry matter feed intake needed. I assumed a 75% of the feed ration is going to be from corn diet. If you do assume that 342 pounds times a 75%, it's about 250. 257 pounds of. Of additional corn that needs to be fed. Assume 56 pounds per bushel. That comes out to about four and a half bushels of corn per head. So then I.

[C]

That's reasonable.

[E]

Okay, well let's check. Check part number one. So I went and pulled the. We, we slaughtered 20, 29.8 million head of commercial cattle last year. And so assuming you get rid of maybe the coals and maybe there are some grass fed, which is probably a very small percent, but I assume 27 million head. So 27 million head. 257 pounds per head. That's an additional 6.9 billion with a B pounds of corn, which sounds like a lot. So then I went to some of the corn balance sheet information and so the US Corn use is roughly, if you look over the last two to three years, really the last 10 years, but last two or three years, we're right at about 15 billion bushels used. And the number one use of corn is feed. Feed residual is what they call it. Number two, ethanol, maybe. It said alcohol for fuel. So yeah, ethanol. And number three is exports. And that's a majority of those three

[C]

things pretty much take care of everything.

[E]

So that's about 15 billion bushels, the ending stock. So what's left over at the end of the year is roughly 1.5 billion bushels. So we're ending stock is 1.5. We need an additional, I guess 6.9 for pounds bushel billion pounds of corn, not bushels. I should have converted that to bushels. That's roughly 124. Actually it's about 124 million bushels we need for feed. We have 1.5 billion left over. So that's only 0.8% of the corn. Sorry, that's 8% of the ending stocks, roughly at 0.8% of the corn use. So point is, there's still a lot of.

[C]

So to get this extra 36 pounds of carcass weight, you're talking about an additional. Or if you didn't do that, we would have 0.8% more corn on the market because it wasn't used to feed extra 36 pounds of carcass.

[E]

Corn markets might be less than 1%. Yeah. Corn's markets would be a little tighter, I guess is what I'm trying to say. So maybe that might drive, but it's

[C]

not like a 10% difference. It's like less than 1%.

[A]

Right, but that's only true if you, the alternative was not feeding anything and it would just, they would instead of feeding the heavy cattle, if those cattle went out how many ever days sooner than other cattle would have been placed and they would have been eating at least some corn.

[D]

Yeah, yeah, but I mean in normal years. Yes, but with our short supply, I mean there's a lot of pens that

[A]

are empty, they may be sitting empty.

[D]

So. Yeah, okay.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

So as you, as you think about that, so does that from your perspective, Dustin, is that a big effect, a small effect? Is that something that would be meaningful to the markets?

[E]

I mean, it's definitely noticeable, but I don't know that it's a, it's a, it's going to be a huge impact. And so I guess that's, that was my take home message. Is it probably there would be a little bit of an impact that corn supply is going to be a little tighter, but I don't know that you're going to have major market adjustments. And I mean there would be some market adjustments, but I don't think it's going to be anything major.

[A]

So to the next part of this question, Philip, is as consumption increases, once it gets to a certain point, they're eating what they're eating, what does this do to conversion and average daily gain as we continue to feed and finish those cattle past where we finished them previously?

[D]

Well, so gain is going to decrease. I mean, as cattle reach, they get closer and closer to their mature size, rate of gain decreases, feed conversion decreases. But there's this phenomenon we call carcass transfer. And so as we get closer and closer to that mature size and those animals get fatter, fatter and fatter, there's a higher proportion of the gain that's in the carcass and less in the offal. And so when we're selling cattle on a carcass basis, oftentimes there's a point where the value of gain on a carcass basis actually surpasses the value of gain on a live weight basis. And so we are actually more profitable by feeding them to heavier weights when we're selling on a carcass basis than if we were selling on a live weight basis at the same, at the same weight.

[C]

So if I understand, so if I think about younger cattle. So they're still growing. Some of the weight is going into their skeleton, some is going into their hide, some is going into their live liver and guts, visceral organs. But once, once they're close to their mature size, they're not growing any of those tissues. They're basically just growing muscle and fat.

[D]

Not much. Probably the biggest thing that's growing in the viscera as they're getting older is visceral fat. And so we're depositing fat in that viscera as they're getting heavier and fatter. But the visceral organs are the carcass. Yeah, most. The higher and higher proportion of the weight is carcass. Some of the numbers I've seen, we think about dressing percentages, you know, in the, in the low to mid-60s. But some of the things that I've seen as far as that proportion of gain there toward the end of the feeding period, that proportion of gain can be in the carcass could be 0.7, 0.5 points. Sorry, 0.75% of each pound of gain. So it there. If you, if you slaughter some young calves, like some feeder calves, those dressing percentages are going to be like, in the low to mid-50s, you know, 0.5 to 0.55. And, and so we're, we're those, those conversions to carcass, it really increase.

[A]

So does it change the. And this was part of the question as well, how does that change the dressing percentage? So a lot of times we've looked at 0.63 or.64 does when we're feeding them further, does that change their dressing percentage dramatically or is it a small change?

[D]

Well, generally, as they get fatter, the dressing percentage goes up because they're depositing more and more fat in the carcass.

[A]

And so as they go through this process, because typically we've thought about the value of gain that you mentioned in a live weight basis is pretty different than on a carcass basis because our conversions drop off dramatically, Our average daily gain drops off, and you go, okay, well, our value again, is maybe decreasing. But this carcass transfer is where you're actually looking at how much of that value from the carcass can I get back? And so even though my average daily gain and my feed conversion dropped off, it's still economically viable to continue feeding.

[D]

Yeah, well. And with the way cattle prices are today, my. The value of each pound of carcass gain is still more than my cost to gain. I'm.

[A]

Yeah. So you just Keep feeding them and what's the impact of that on the overall cattle market? So we talked about corn stocks, but what about cattle inventory head that are coming through the system or on the cow side?

[C]

Well, it seems to me, and I'm looking at my ag economist across the table, but. Well, it's a tall part of the overarching system in that as if I'm a feedlot operator, I have options. I can either continue to feed cattle that I have currently, you know, to heavier weights, or I could sell them to slaughter and replace those cattle with other cattle. But then it all comes back. So what would it cost to replace them and what's the efficiency of those? So it's, it's, it's really about what do I do with my facilities, my pen space, my, my feed mill capacity. What's the best use of those resources? And that's what the feedlot operator manager is trying to do. That math all the time is trying to figure out, well, who's the best, who's the best group of cattle? Which, which is the best group of cattle to feed? Is it to feed the, the ones I've got on feed a little bit longer or is it to go ahead and slaughter them and bring in new cattle? So I don't know if I answered your question, but that's, that's their job is to try to figure that out. And they're.

[A]

But there are implications up and down the chain when you make those decisions, you purchase. What does that do to the.

[C]

So the supply and the demand of the incoming feeder cattle. That definitely plays a role in my decision. And that sends a price signal back to the cow calf guy about, you know, when, when do we expand in those types of questions.

[E]

Yeah, and I think that's, I mean we've been talking about that for a couple years now. Right. I'm thinking more at the calc half level, like when are we going to start expanding that herd? And there's just. Seems like there's been so many challenges, whether it's maybe it's not higher input prices now, but we have had higher input prices. You know, interest rates have been up. You know, we had pretty large drought across a big junction of the U.S. big section of the U.S. and so there's just, you know, we aren't bringing calves from Mexico in. I mean. Right. There's just a lot of things that were, have been compounding. And you combine that with a really, really strong demand for beef from the consumers. And so you've got all these factors that all just seem to be working at the same time.

[D]

I think that that's where I was going. I think, I mean, right now the supply of animal numbers is way low compared to the demand for beef. And so by adding these extra pound each individual animal, we're actually, we're keeping beef prices lower for the consumer because otherwise beef prices would actually be higher than they are now if we were still feeding cattle, you know, 40 pounds of carcass less like we were a few years ago because we just don't have the numbers of animals to produce the poundage of beef. And so adding weight to each individual animals is helping to try to meet that demand and keeping prices more reasonable than they would be otherwise.

[A]

Yeah, and certainly we've seen some changes there the last few years and we'll keep an eye. Is that a, is this a long term shift or is this a trend that's going to go back and forth? I also want to address the other question that we had from a listener because I think this is good and this is a scenario that happens. So a producer emailed and said, hey, I had a. There's a piece of crop ground that was very close to my house, I would like to rent it for pasture, but there's no fences, no water, currently no grass. If I make these long term improvements to that piece of land, how do I work that in as a land lease or a pasture lease? And what is the potential arrangement that I set up? And I know Scott, you've had some, some of your clients in the past, when you were in practice, did some of these leases, what's your initial take on that? And then we'll get Dustin's thoughts.

[B]

I guess before you get into specifics, it's all communication between the two parties. There's, if it's already crop ground and there's all those investments to be made, there's a lot of different ways to handle that. Who pays for what? You know, you hear some of those, like the landowner buys material, the producer builds the fence, and then, you know, if it's something like that, where you're going to invest significant time and effort, if you can negotiate a longer term lease, you know that that stuff will all pay off in the long run. And then I think you need to have pretty clear language on what happens when the lease terms end, who gets to keep what, you know, and then you got to worry about water sources and those kind of things too. But service value, I think it's all

[A]

communication because some of those are big expenses. And if you put in water, a permanent water source. You're not pulling that out when you, when you leave. So that was part of their question is long term lease or short term or how do I structure that? And what you're saying is however you do it, think about how you're going to spread out those expenses over the years. Dustin, what are your thoughts?

[E]

Yeah, so a couple things. Growing up, I know we had at least one pasture. It was right next to an individual's house, but it's also Lilong Creek. And I want to say again, I was younger so I don't know that I know all the details but we bought a lot of the supplies which again, kind of goes against what you were saying, but it was, that was part of the arrangement. Again, comes back to the communication know exactly. But because we bought some of the fencing supplies and you know, dad's labor was pretty cheap at the time.

[C]

That was you?

[E]

It was me and my brother and sisters. But we got the pasture for longer and it may be even at a reduced price. And so, so yes, communication is the key thing. Figure out what the arrangement is

[A]

on

[E]

agmanager.info Again, I don't know where the listener was. I think it was the east coast. But maybe if you take a look at your local land grant systems. We did a survey two years ago here at K State Nag Econ and of all just fencing materials, barbed wire, labor, all the different things. And so maybe before you jump into that, maybe you, you take a look and try to kind of come up with some cost estimates and figure out, you know, what is, what do I need to make a return on that or whatever my rate of return I want, what do I need to set this price at? And then start communicating with your potential lease.

[D]

I think you could look at the property too and decide maybe I don't need permanent fencing. Maybe I could put in a temporary type fencing like some high tensile electric fence or something like that. That would, that would be a little less expensive to put in and a whole lot easier to take out and move somewhere else if the lease does terminate. So look, you know, be open to lots of different options of what you could do. Even, even temporary water. It's a little bit tough at times, but depending on how long you're going to graze this area, if it's going to be a, hey, we're moving cows there for one month out of the year or something, you know, maybe you can haul water or something like that.

[B]

So that's a point we didn't touch on too is just stewardship of the land. You know how a cow in date, cow out date. If those things need to be negotiated with some sort of buffer, you know, weather dependent, those kind of things. And then even the cosmetic appearance of the fence can matter to some people. And it's all just going to go back to having those discussions up front before anything gets done.

[E]

And this is crop land. I'm assuming this is marginal crop land. You're not putting it. But if prices, corn prices go back up 4, 5, 6, 7 Bush, I mean are you maybe pull this out of pasture going back into it still

[C]

goes back to the communication and my understanding of the listener's question was this was actually a new landowner. So this landowner bought this land from the previous owner. And so that's one of the reasons why they're shifting. They're shifting from crop production to possibly pasture production. But that really again people own land for lots of different reasons. You know, to generate rent income, to, to appreciate, you know, to have to take advantage of that long term appreciation for fairly safe investment or, or maybe other reasons they, they want to recreation, they want to just have that land. They want, they want to be, invest in their community as far as improve the quality of land. And so the person that's grazing cattle on it that needs to fully understand what the landowner wants. If you want a long term lease, I need to meet their needs. And so it might be some cosmetic, it might be, you know, soil restoration, it might be rental income. But I need to put my preferences aside if I want to have a long term lease with them and, and meet their needs and a lot of conversation and I'm going to turn to, to Dustin here. I'll bet you want me to write it down and not just assume that we understand each other orally.

[E]

Yeah, that's, I mean you got to get everything in writing. I mean I'm sure there are a lot of handshake agreements but I don't know how, I'm not a lawyer, I don't know anything about that. I don't know how that would hold up in, in court. So getting everything, misunderstandings.

[C]

Yeah, I'm trying to avoid them by writing it down.

[E]

Yeah.

[A]

But, but I think also it, it may be if you want to make these investments and some of those, let's take the water for example or the fence or both. If I'm going to graze, I got to have both those. And if I can't do that and justify it, if they'll only Give me a one year lease, I may not be able to justify that expense and I may have to walk away. So back to what Scott said is lay out, here's what I want, here's what I need, and do the math on the back end. Okay? I can put the water in, I can put fence in, but I know I'm going to have to walk away from both those. And Philip, you talked about it before the show. Putting fence in takes some time. Taking fence out if I wanted to leave is. That's not near as much fun. And it's not like fencing is great fun, but it's less fun if you're taking it out and you got to move on. So I think get those things clear from the start. And you guys all mentioned there's different arrangements, right? So the owner may say, yeah, fence sounds good for the long term value of the land. I'll pay for the materials, you put it up, talk through those things, what works, what makes sense. Or they say, yeah, I have no use for offense. So if you want a fence, you put it up, it's on your dime. Okay, well then I might need five years or seven years of lease on this land. I think any of those are reasonable requests. Any other things, any resources they should look at? Dustin, I know you mentioned a couple.

[E]

I said, you know, there's a survey with cost information. I think actually there's some lease information, land lease information on agmanager.info Again I know that's probably more specific to Kansas, but at least it'll get you started somewhere and maybe take a look at your own land grant university.

[A]

Yeah, because I've, I've used some of those resources before to look up what the average cost is and they have it broken down well for Kansas and it's kind of nice to at least have that reference to know if you're in the ballpark or not, because otherwise you're guessing at those numbers. So appreciate you guys thoughts on both those questions. And as always, if you've got a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss, please send us an email at bcisu Edu.