Building Better Cows: Smart Heifer Development from Day One

Summary

Podcast Summary: Cattle Chat – "Building Better Cows: Smart Heifer Development from Day One"

Date: June 8, 2026
Host: Dr. Brad White (A)
Guests/Panelists:

• Dr. Scott (B)
• Dr. Bob (C)
• Dr. Lee Jones, Boehringer Ingelheim (D)

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Episode Overview

This episode of Cattle Chat explores the critical elements of successful heifer development, with a focus on practical goals, selection criteria, herd health management, and the economic nuances of raising replacement heifers. Dr. Lee Jones (veterinary cattle expert) joins the BCI team to share seasoned advice from decades in the industry. The discussion moves seamlessly from selection philosophies to disease management, all culminating in a deep dive on the best age to have heifers calve for the first time.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Goals in Heifer Development

[05:09 - 10:14]

• Define the "Ideal Heifer":
  Lee Jones (D):
  “The first thing that comes to mind is what kind of heifer do you want to keep? ... Both from a phenotypic standpoint, confirmation standpoint and a production standpoint.” [05:09]

• Long-Term Herd Strategy:
  Bob (C):
  “I basically select heifers that were born early so that they have plenty of time to reach puberty and get bred early in that first breeding season. ... She’s kind of set for life.” [05:50]

• Disposition & Soundness:
  Scott (B):
  “You can't get stuck in the weeds. You still gotta physically perform that job over a number of years. ... And there's some things that will play a role into that.” [09:35]

• Select Cows You Like:
  Preference is given to heifers from proven cows known for desirable traits. Saving heifers from first-calf heifers is discussed, with attention to both the opportunities (AI sires, maternal traits) and drawbacks (genetic trade-offs, unknown longevity).

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2. Setting Up Herd Immunity & Disease Management

[11:00 - 18:09]

• Building Immunity Starts Young:
  Vaccination and immunity-boosting begin with colostrum and early life vaccinations. Lee Jones (D):
  “It really starts with mama's colostrum. And it's important that she gets, you know, she takes off right from the beginning. And then a calf hood vaccination program ...” [11:00]

• Major Diseases to Control:

  • BVD (Bovine Viral Diarrhea): Unique persistent infection risk, critical to identify and cull PI (persistently infected) carriers.
    Bob (C):
    “BVD is unique in that the only time an animal can become persistently infected ... would be during pregnancy, during the gestation.” [13:11]
    “It's a once in a lifetime test. If they're born persistently infected, they will always be persistently infected.” [13:51]
  • IBR (Infectious Bovine Rhinotracheitis), Lepto, Trichomoniasis, Campylobacter among others.

• Customized Health Protocols:
  Emphasized working with a veterinarian to build a program that fits the unique disease landscape and management cycle of each operation.

  • “You have to have a conversation with your veterinarian. ... every herd is different.” [18:09, A]

• Growth Support, Not Implants:
  “Implements I would not implant.” Brad White (A), [15:48]

  • Use of ionophores or progestins as supplements near breeding is considered with caution and only as part of an overall solid management plan.

• Modified Live Vaccines:
  Critical for long-term reproductive health, but timing is key to avoid negative impacts on fertility.

  • “Modified lives play a huge role in this ... we want to make sure that we're using a good modified live with the Singer strain.” Dr. Lee Jones (D), [16:41]

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3. Listener Question: Optimal Calving Age – 24 vs. 30 Months

[19:48 - 26:57]

• Breed Matters:

  • Indicus influence breeds (e.g., Brangus, Brahman crosses) tend to mature later; calving at 30 months may be more realistic. Lee (D): “Some people do like that trying to breed heifers ... And the genetics may play a role that it's, hey, it's better to breed that heifer ... at 21 months and then have her Calvet at 30 months.” [19:48]
  • Bos taurus breeds (e.g., Angus, Hereford) are well-suited to calving at 24 months with proper development.

• Logistical and Economic Considerations:

  • Calving at 30 months can disrupt established seasonal calving systems (e.g., fall vs. spring herds).
  • Maintaining heifers for an extra six months incurs notable cost and delays break-even, sometimes not until the second or third calf. Bob (C): “Six months of feed and if you pay yourself and you pay interest, you know those six months are not free. ... you lose some efficiency that's a little bit hard to gain.” [22:42]

• Breedback and Group Management:

  • No marked difference in rebreeding ease as long as nutrition and body condition are well managed at calving.
    • “If I manage them appropriately at 24 months of age, they'll breed back just as well as ... 30 month old heifers ... managed well.” Bob (C), [24:12]
  • Heifers (whether 24 or 30 months) should generally be managed separately from mature cows until after their second calf.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Setting Goals:
  • Lee Jones: “If it's a daughter that I've kept out of herd of a good cow, we know that the apple doesn't fall very far from the tree.” [08:23]
• On Disease Risk:
  • Bob: “The beauty of BVD is it's a once in a lifetime test. If they're born persistently infected, they will always be persistently infected.” [13:51]
• On Economics:
  • Bob: “Six months of feed and if you pay yourself and you pay interest, you know those six months are not free.” [22:42]
• On Modified Live Vaccines:
  • Lee: “Modified lives play a huge role in this ... some of our best protecting protection ... and the timing ... relative to breeding” [16:41]
• On Industry Longevity:
  • Lee: “Ideally if we can get eight or 10 calves out of her. We feel like she's been a very successful female in my cow herd.” [26:57]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 05:09 – Setting goals for heifer selection and retention
• 11:00 – Herd health and immunity plan for replacements
• 13:11 – Managing BVD; why PI (persistently infected) testing is important
• 15:24 – Growth management tools and pitfalls (implants, nutritional strategy)
• 16:41 – The role of modified live vaccines and timing with reproduction
• 19:48 – Deep dive: Heifer calving age – 24 vs. 30 months
• 21:34 – Logistical and seasonal impacts of calving age choice
• 22:42 – Economic break-even calculations and efficiency concerns
• 24:12 – Rebreeding and group management philosophies

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Takeaways

• Start with clear goals: know the type of cow you want for your herd long-term.
• Selection should balance phenotype, proven maternal lines, and practical considerations like disposition and soundness.
• Early immunity-building with proper vaccination is the foundation of herd health and productivity.
• Customization is essential: work with a veterinarian to tailor disease management and reproductive timing to your operation.
• For most U.S. beef cattle operations, target to have heifers calve at 24 months, unless breed or circumstances dictate otherwise. This improves long-term efficiency and reduces input costs.
• Economic and managerial discipline in the first two years sets the stage for lifetime productivity and profitability of replacement females.

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This summary preserves the educational exchange and practical tone of the Cattle Chat team, distilling essential advice for producers and industry professionals aiming to build a more productive and resilient cow herd.

Transcript

[A]

Hi, welcome to BCI Cattle Chat. I'm Brad White. Happy to have you with us and happy to have our crew here in the studio. Morning, Scott.

[B]

Morning, guys.

[A]

Morning, Bob.

[C]

Good morning.

[A]

And we have A guest today, Dr. Lee Jones from Barringer Ingelheim. Morning, Lee.

[D]

Good morning, guys. How are you this morning?

[A]

Good. We're happy to have you with us because we're going to get to discuss a great topic. We're going to talk about heifers and raising heifers. And I know some folks are starting to think about raising heifers and saving them in this cattle market, and we want to make sure that we do well with that process start to finish. So we'll talk about all of the things relative to raising those heifers early in life to how do we manage their immunity and when do we want them to calve. What are some of our targets that we'll go at? And this podcast is sponsored by Baringer Ingelheim, and we appreciate them sharing some of Lee's time with us today. Tell us a little bit about you, Lee.

[D]

Thanks, Brad. Gosh. I got a master's at UGA way back in the 80s on cattle repro and spent some time out west and working for a feed yard and then decided to go to vet school. Graduated from Colorado State in 98, went to practice in southwest Nebraska in Curtis, Nebraska from 98 to about 2010. And then I got to move back to Georgia and joined the faculty here at the University of Georgia College of Veterinary Medic. Did that until 23 when I got to join Boehringer Ingelheim. Got to stay in the same region. So had a, had a kind of a neat journey through our profession and the cattle industry. Got to start out in the Southeast and spend some time in Texas and, and Colorado and the feed yard side of things and then come back to Georgia and try to put it all together and giving some ideas and suggestions of how to raise beef cattle. So spent a lot of time in the industry and the profession. So great to be with you guys this morning.

[A]

Excellent. We look forward to visiting with you about heifers. We've actually got a listener question that we'll cover too, if you, if you have a listener question for us, you can send it to us at bcisu Edu or reach out to us on social media. Now, before we got on the podcast, guys, we were talking Lee and Bob, you guys have known each other for 30 years, so. So at least going on a long time, which led me to think of my Trivia question for today. And I figured this is highly relevant, and I'm sure you guys are going to just blurt out the answer to this. So 30 years ago, 1996, there was a holiday craze for a specific type of toy. Do you remember what toy the holiday craze was for in 1996? And if you can't get it, I can give you some options.

[C]

Wow, 96.

[A]

It's not Cabbage Patch Kids. That was in the 80s, boss. Don't go too far back.

[D]

Wow. I would just like Pokeman.

[C]

I don't know, Pokemon. Some Atari thing or something.

[A]

Some Atari thing. I think you're in the 70s.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

This is the 90s. Okay. Fred said, you got it. You got to get us there.

[B]

So there was. I'm trying to think. When Home Alone 2 came out, there was a little recording thing, like a play and record and play. Back to your thing. That went nuts on a holiday for a while. Yeah, but that might have been before 96.

[A]

Might have been before 96. Let me give you guys choices, and give us. How about I give you choices? Beanie Babies, Tamaguchi Furby, or Super Soakers.

[C]

Well, of those, the most fun would be Super Soakers.

[A]

So I'm gonna go with Super Soakers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

A great gift for the wintertime. Oh, yeah, that's a.

[D]

Exactly.

[B]

They've made some real strides in Super Soaker technology recently.

[A]

It is amazing. If you go see the new squirt guns and maybe we should get some for testing for research purposes.

[B]

You need to go on Amazon. They got ones now that, like, automatically suck up the water. And then you can, like, toggle between different firing rates and there's enough power where you. I mean, it's not just a handheld

[C]

little squirt gun anymore.

[B]

You shouldn't give it to kids, probably.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Shouldn't give kids

[D]

some of the evolution of these toys. Definitely had some adults involved with it.

[A]

Yeah, that's exactly right. And adults as the intended audience. All right, Scott, you gotta guess. Beanie Babies, Tamaguchi, Furby, or Super Soakers?

[B]

I'm going Tamagotchi.

[A]

Okay. Lee.

[D]

I'd go for Furby.

[A]

Yes. You guys danced right around the correct answer of Beanie Babies.

[C]

Oh, there you go.

[A]

All the opposite answers. So it's hard to remember back to. Back to 96. But that's okay because we're not talking about 96. We're going to talk about heifers and heifer development. And I'm going to. I'm going to lead off, when we think about heifers and heifer development. Lee, give me a couple of your goals if I'm coming. If I approach you, and I'm a producer and I say, hey, I want to, I want to plan a good heifer development program, what should some of my targets be?

[D]

The first thing that comes to mind is what kind of heifer do you want to keep? You know, selection, you know, and, and, and everybody has kind of that picture right. Of the, of the ideal heifer. So to me, what kind of heifer? Both from a phenotypic standpoint, confirmation standpoint and a production standpoint.

[A]

Yeah. So what do I want her to look like as a cow? Is that what you're saying?

[D]

Yeah. Long term. Sure, exactly. So, you know, as we begin to think about long term, short term, long term goals, just the long game in mind.

[A]

Yeah. Bob, what are some of your goals you think about?

[C]

Yeah, absolutely. I like the picking heifers from cows that I like a lot. And I want those couple of things that I do have some constraints, you know, with the beef cattle operation. We try to align, you know, calving breeding with, with good forage intake. So there I, therefore, I need them to calve at about 12 month intervals. It's not quite the same. True with dairy cattle where we're, we're delivering feed to them. So because I want heifers to become pregnant and calve near their second birthday, they need to be old enough to reach puberty to accomplish that goal. So I basically select heifers that were born early so that they have plenty of time to reach puberty and get bred early in that first breeding season. Because honestly, the way I consider heifer development to be successful is I get a bread early, she has a good gestation, has a calf without difficulty, turns around and gets pregnant again for her second pregnancy early in that second breeding season. And if I do that, she's kind of set for life.

[A]

Yeah. And I like, I like that as a target goal. So getting bred so she calves early in her second calving season. But I want to follow up on one thing you and Lee said. So we're trying to pick out the cow that I want her to look like. And Bob, you said get her from a cow that I like. Does that mean I can't save heifers from heifers? Because I may not know if I like her yet and she's only had one calf. Are you saying I need to save heifers from some of the older cows in my herd or Tell me what you're thinking.

[C]

Well, actually there's some advantages and some disadvantages of saving heifers out of heifers. The advantage sometimes is, particularly if I have bred that heifer to an AI sire and I kind of balance the traits so that I get good maternal calving ease and some, some maternal traits that I want out of that AI sire, then I might want to save that calf born to a heifer. On the other hand, sometimes in order to get a calving ease bull, particularly a natural service calving ease bull, I may give up some things that I don't necessarily want to keep for long term in the cow herd. So sometimes I like to keep heifers out of heifers and sometimes I'd prefer to pass and just take heifers out of cows. So it's I, as if I was the herd veterinarian, it'd be very much a conversation of which cow, which cows, which heifers, and what was the, what was the bulls that they were bred to?

[A]

Lee, do you have thoughts on that? Heifers out of heifers versus out of cows?

[D]

I completely, I completely agree with Bob on the desire. Selection plays a big role here and of course we know that ahead of time. And, and if it's a daughter that I've kept out of herd of a good cow, we know that the apple doesn't fall very far from the tree. And then if I'm selecting a really good maternal sire with some quality traits that are high accuracy, then I, sir, might, might go ahead and AI and then keep those heifers. And, and again, it's a very intentional goal and I know ahead of time that she's going to be a little smaller, she's going to, going to require some, some intentional development, that type of thing. But that's again, that, that goes with, that's a, that's not a decision I made today or tomorrow. It's a decision I made several yesterdays with a, with a goal in mind. So absolutely, I totally agree. That definitely depends on, on the sire.

[A]

So, Scott, we've had Lee. Lee said, as far as big goals for the herd, decide what phenotype you want so you can shoot towards it. Bob said, I want to have her have her second calf early in the calving season. What's your big goal or target for heifer development?

[B]

Well, I think things we haven't talked about are disposition and Lee touched on a little bit conformation and I've just in practice ran into a few scenarios where looked really good on paper and then the feet were garbage or something along those lines. And I think we just. You can't get stuck in the weeds. You still gotta physically perform that job over a number of years. And there's some things that will play a role into that.

[A]

Yeah, and I fully appreciate your comment on disposition because. And whether it's environment or inherited disposition can run in family trees. And I. Those are ones I'd like to prune off because I don't. Don't have time for those in the herd.

[C]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

So as you think about heifer development in general, that gives us some good targets to shoot for, but we've got to make sure that they stay in the herd. One of the aspects of that is really preventing reproductive losses. And I'm going to come back to the. How do we get her bread early? What are we. What are we targeting there? I want to focus on some of the infectious side. So as we think of preparing the immunity of those heifers. When do I start that process? Because I've heard people say your heifers, that's the baseline of immunity for your cow herd. So be sure that they're set up correctly. So, Lee, when do you recommend a heifer that I'm going to keep as a replacement? When should she get some of her first vaccinations? And what diseases are you concerned about?

[D]

So let's. I'll look at some of the diseases we're concerned about, Brad, because that a little bit of that depends on or dictates strategy. But BVD comes to mind first and foremost. But some of the other things, like from the environment or from breeding, we can get, you know, the different serovars of lepto. We, because I'm in the southeast occasion, we think of trichomoniasis, we think of campylobacter or vibriosis. But BVD from a viral standpoint, IBR also occasionally rears its head up in different parts of the country. Those are some of the main infectious diseases that we have vaccines and we can manage both from a biosecurity standpoint is probably a very effective tool. And then using our vaccines to build resistance. So when does that start? It really starts with mama's colostrum. And it's important that she gets, you know, she takes off right from the beginning. And then a calf hood vaccination program that includes vaccinating in the face of maternal antibodies, just a good cathode vaccination program. And then at weaning, then maybe that cathode vaccination program transitions over into a repro program, the cathode vaccination program. My opinion, what we're trying to manage mostly is respiratory disease. But cool thing about that is that IBR and BVD protection transfer transitions right over into repro protection.

[A]

Absolutely. And those viruses, infectious bovine rhinotracheitis and bovine viral diarrhea virus, those two are big ones in respiratory disease and reproductive disease. But the BVD is a little bit unique in how it transfers and stays in the cow calf herd. And Bob, we've touched on this briefly before, but give me a recap. What am I concerned about? If this disease is either endemic in my herd or if it's not endemic. What are those? Kind of two different scenarios.

[C]

Yeah, yeah. So bvd, bovine viral diarrhea is a kind of a unique virus. There's a lot of diseases that we work with, cattle that have a chronic carrier state, persistent carrier type of a situation, a lot of diseases. But BVD is unique in that the only time an animal can become persistently infected or permanently infected would be during pregnancy, during the gestation. So in utero. Everything else that we think about that can cause a persistent carrier state that can happen after the calf is born. But so then the beauty is we have really good diagnostic tests for that chronic, persistently infected animal. And the beauty of BVD is it's a once in a lifetime test. If they're born persistently infected, they will always be persistently infected. If they're born not persistently infected, they'll never become persistently infected. And those persistently infected calves are by far the biggest reservoir or source of virus. So if I can control them and we have a accurate diagnostic test, it's a once in a lifetime test. This, this disease. I actually kind of like it from a management standpoint. Now, that being said, Lee and I have been working on this for 30 years and, and, and we haven't solved it yet, but we do have some good tools in our toolbox and the tools are a good aggressive testing program and the vaccines which help raise herd immunity. So kind of a nice disease to work with your veterinarian and really develop a pretty solid biosecurity program for so on.

[A]

If, if I'm hearing what you guys are saying correctly, you want to start building that immunity as they're calves. So if we're picking them at weaning or before weaning, and then we start building that immunity and then we'll come up to yearling age and that may be a time that we booster make sure they get good immunity, especially for some of those viral diseases. Scott, is there anything else from a health program standpoint that you're thinking as far as parasiticides or other products that we might want to be sure that those heifers get to ensure their growth and development?

[B]

I mean it's going to depend where you are. But I think anything you can do to, you know, a lot of the selections that we've talked about earlier is going to be based on size at that, you know, at those later, you know, yearling type ages. And so anything that you can do to maintain weight gain and ensure that those animals don't suffer setbacks from some sort of infectious disease, parasite load, even basic nutritional management, that's going to be part of the whole developmental process.

[A]

Implants I would not implant.

[D]

Okay, agree, agree. Stay away.

[A]

So just to just to clarify, anything we can do but implants to help their help their size. So there's been a couple other tools that have been used people will talk about use of ionophores in those heifers helps a little bit somewhat the growth. As you get closer to breeding, including pre breeding programs that may include a progestin if you've got some right on the. Right on the edge. This is a great area to sit down with your veterinarian because there are a few of those things that if you're doing most things wrong, no one of these things will fix it. But if you have doing most things right, they help a little bit. Right Bob?

[C]

That's a good way of saying it.

[A]

Yeah. So anything else we're missing on the health side, Lee, that you'd want to include in that overall health program?

[D]

I think it's important to mention the importance of modified live vaccines in this because when we're looking at reproductive efficiency, of course Bob termed, I think he coined the term reproductive momentum or we look at just reproductive overall reproductive effectiveness. Modified lives play a huge role in this. And that is when we look in the literature and we look at risk factors to creating that that P I calf A modified live is some of our best protecting protection against having that heifer exposed to BVD in that, you know, in that 60 to 100 day window or so and creating that PPI caf. So we want to make sure that we're using a good modified live with the Singer strain. And when you look at the Noble foundation, some of their work they looking at the Singer strain in the BVD1A that's important. And the reason I bring that up and you mentioned progestins and estrogen synchronization. We know that there's some, I guess there's two schools of thought that modified live pre breeding can cause a transient infertility. And some people don't feel as strongly about that. But I think it's important when we're looking at our modified live vaccines, the timing of it relative to breeding and just the effectiveness making sure that we're vaccinating that heifer correctly.

[A]

And I think, Lee, you bring up a great point of it's not just what you do, it's how you do it and when you do it. Which means these heifer programs have to be tied into and customized to a specific herd. So you won't hear us say, here's abcd, what you should do on every herd in the country, because every herd is different. And I like the way you answered the question when I asked you initially was you have to have a conversation with your veterinarian. So does this herd have BVD or not have bvd? Different recommendations, different programs. Is this heard? Highly likely to be exposed to some of those viral pathogens or some of the other pathogens you mentioned? Different herd health program. Right. So all of us have worked with a variety of producers and I think this is a great place to think about. Here's how you might customize it. So you may have a conversation with your veterinarian. And this heifer development program, I think is worth spending a little more time on because that is the base for your cow herd. So that's your cow herd in three to five years. So figure out how to build that immunity. Great conversation on health. I do want to get to this listener question, which I thought was a really good one. And, and the question was, should I be targeting to have my heifers calve the first time at 24 months of age or 30 months of age? And some of the potential considerations are I may not have to supplement as much. They may breed back easier. They may calve easier if I have them calve at 30 months of age. But a little bit concerned about some of the implic. Lee, I'm going to go first. What's your. What's your thoughts on this question?

[D]

You know, part of the world that I live in, we have some indicus influence cattle, and they tend to be a little later maturing. And because of that, some people do like that trying to breed heifers. If I wanted a Calvet 24 months, I have to breed her at about 15 months. And there are some Heifers that just because of their breed influence may not have hit puberty. We know puberty is a, it's a fact of what age, weight and genetics and, and the genetics may play a role that it's, hey, it's better to breed that heifer again from a developmental standpoint, from a maturity standpoint, it may be a little bit better to breed her at, at, you know, at 20 months, at 21 months and then have her Calvet at 30 months. The logistics of that, of course, you know, then that doesn't fall into, like Bob mentioned, I love the 12 month mindset because these seasons come back on the calendar year. But so what do I do with those heifers? Do I, do I purchase those heifers, develop them off site, you know, that they may not fit my window. So I love the idea looking at some breeds from a maturity and a longevity standpoint, but then it just creates some of those logistical challenges.

[A]

Yeah. And, and to put a point on that is if you have a fall calving herd and you're having them at 30 months, then those heifers, their first calf is born in the spring, they don't really fit in my fall calving herd anymore. So. Right, that's, that's the challenge. Either I've got to let them slide back, in which case I've lost a whole year, or I have to have a spring and a fall herd. Scott, what are your thoughts on Kevin? 24 or 30 months.

[B]

I don't have any numbers to back it up, but it seems like I don't want to give up that six months if I can avoid it. And that's my gut.

[C]

Yeah. And you know, I think one of the things and Lee said it is important is breed some of our, you know, the Brangus, Brayford, those with a boss Indicus, they do reach puberty a little bit later and it makes it more challenging to get them to Calvet 24 months. But my, my boss, Taurus, my Angus, Hereford, Charlie seven talls, if I manage those heifers well, there's really no reason why they can't calve at 24 months of age. I don't have to push them particularly hard. You know, the type of game we're looking at, you know, post weaning is a pound and a half or a little bit more. It's not a feedlot type of a gain that we need those heifers to have in order to calve at 24 months of age. So my preference, if, you know, again, particularly with you know the English and Continental breeds is to aim for that 24 months of age. I'm not really pushing them that hard to have them calve at 24 months of age.

[A]

Is this a question you have a spreadsheet for, Bob?

[C]

I actually do.

[A]

I thought we came across one you didn't have a spreadsheet for.

[C]

Nope, I do. And the reality is six months of feed and if you pay yourself and you pay interest, you know those six months are not free. And then I'm asking her over the rest of her life to pay for those extra six months of inputs. And so you lose some efficiency that's a little bit hard to gain. What I'd rather do is really concentrate on selecting old heifers that are likely to reach puberty by the time frame I need them to and then the nutrition needs to be adequate Again. It's not high, high gain, but it does need to be adequate There. You know, an all forage diet on poor quality forage probably isn't going to cut it. But supplementing those heifers so they can reach my one and a half or a little bit more gain post weaning is money well spent. It's actually cheaper than just financing these girls for an extra six months.

[A]

Well and it's you're paying for them as an investment and you invest in them the first either 24 or 30 months of their life and then they repay that investment by their calves. A lot of times the numbers I've seen heifers aren't breaking even until their second or third calf. If you delay it six months, it's more than just a six month delay. Especially given what Lee said relative to if I've got a fall herd and they flip to the spring or vice versa if I have both. So certainly something to something to consider.

[B]

Are there numbers for the breedback? Question is that interesting?

[C]

So meaning is it easier to breed them back if they have it 24 months of age or 30 months of age? Yeah, there's a few papers and it'd be interesting to see if Lee's seen some of the same papers I have and not really that. And if I get them pregnant so that they calve at 24 months of age, it's really about how do I manage them through, you know, through calving and early breeding season. If I manage them appropriately at 24 months of age, they'll breed back just as well as If I manage 30 month old heifers that are having their first calf and managed well. But you have to manage the caveat

[A]

because at 24 months of age they're at like 80% of their mature body weight. At 30 months they're, they are a little bit.

[B]

They are question. Could you put a 24 month or maybe you got a manager in her own group versus a 30 month or could you put her in with the mature counts and get by doing it that way?

[C]

That is a good question and I'll just give my opinion. I don't have a spreadsheet for that one for sure. I would still manage them separately. I still think they're slightly different than the older cows. I don't know what Lee thinks.

[D]

No, I agree. I think ideally it all comes down to management. I totally agree. The body condition score when she calves is important. Of course that means that I'm managing her ahead of time and I just don't think that I can manage her. I think in the Southeast where we're looking at a high forage nutrition program, you know, we need to price stocking rate plays a big role. You know what, how much grazing that, those, those girls have and, and then you know, if they're going to calve in that body condition, ideally we want to calve in a six and so that they cycle, cycle back by the time that bulls turned in. But that's, that's absolutely critical. And, and and then we want to make sure that we are managing her really kind of. She has special needs up until that second calf and, and she's really not a replacement until she, she brings that second or third calf. And Brad brought up a good point. She's not paying me back. We know cattle facts, numbers have them somewhere between two and a half to three calves before she breaks even. Right. So in this environment, and that's a great economic discussion which we haven't really talked about the economics, although yeah Bob did on his spreadsheet. But that investment getting her in the herd and in continuing to produce calves on out to you know, as long as we can. Ideally if we can get eight or 10 calves out of her. We feel like she's been a very successful female in my cow herd.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. Excellent. And I appreciate you guys thoughts on that. That was a great answer to that question and a good discussion of replacement heifers. How we manage those replacement heifers. Lee, I appreciate you joining us today and thanks for Behringer Ingelheim for their support of this episode. If you have questions, comments or things you'd like us to address on the podcast, you can send us an email at BCISU edu sat.