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- [00:04]
A
Hi, welcome to BCI Cattle Chat. I'm Brad White. Happy to have you with us, and happy to have our crew here in the studio this morning. Good morning, Dustin.
- [00:10]
B
Good morning, Todd.
- [00:12]
C
Good morning, Bob.
- [00:13]
D
Hello, everybody.
- [00:14]
A
We're glad you guys are here because I've got questions for you. In fact, we had recently we had our Cattleman's Day here at Kansas State, and as people were walking by our BCI group, they actually turned in some questions. So I've got some questions to ask you to find out some answ some of our listeners, and we'll be able to go through those as we get into it. But also, I wanted to remind you, if you have a question that you and you weren't able to hand it to us in person, you can send that to us by email or reaching out to us on social media. In fact, if you'd like to sign up, we have a weekly newsletter that goes out that summarizes some of our recent research as well as some of the information that we've talked about on the podcast. But before we get into those topics, guys, we're right in the heat of the NCAA Basketball tournament. Everybody gets excited about that. And I. I remember distinctly in 1992, I was an undergrad at Missouri. They were undefeated in the Big Eight, and at the last, they were up by one point with four seconds left. UCLA inbounds the ball, drives the court, makes a layup, and wins the game, kicking Mizzou out of the tournament. I wanted to know what tournament memories you. You guys have that may be etched on your brain, because there's a lot of them over the years.
- [01:33]
D
Oh, yeah. So as an old K Stater, there's. There's some classic basketball games. One of the greatest was. So K State was playing Oregon State, who was an overall number one seed, and kind of one of those close games all the way through, and then Rolando Blackman hits the game winner at the buzzer. And life was good. Life was good.
- [01:53]
A
Late 80s.
- [01:54]
D
Yeah, yeah. No, no, this would have been early 80s.
- [01:58]
A
Early 80s.
- [01:59]
D
Mid. Mid 80s.
- [02:01]
A
Somewhere in the 80s, Dustin.
- [02:03]
B
So this is more of a recent one, and it wasn't like last second or anything, but remember been Tang's first year here at K State.
- [02:10]
A
Oh, yeah.
- [02:10]
B
Was it Michigan?
- [02:12]
A
Michigan State. Yes.
- [02:13]
B
Yeah. Where he act like he was arguing with Tang. He's just crossed over half Courtney through that, you know, Johnson, and he went in and just. Reverse. Yeah, that was. That was a good one. But there's some really good ones, too, like Valpo, Drew, Bryce, Hitting that three to win.
- [02:30]
D
I mean, there's a lot of excitement going on this time of year.
- [02:33]
B
And there's been some already this year, too, though, right?
- [02:36]
D
You driven several. Several buzzer beaters.
- [02:39]
B
Yeah.
- [02:39]
A
Todd.
- [02:40]
C
Well, I've always lived by the mantra that the best thing on a basketball floor is wrestling match from door to door. So I don't have as many March Madness memories, but the one that does stick out, and I can't give you specific details of the game, but back in the early teens, when Jim Romania was a thing, of course, I'm a BYU alum, and when Jimmer Fredette was playing for BYU and they only, I think, made it to the sweet 16, but it was still pretty awesome to see him play. He just happened to hit a real streak that last half of that season and it was fun to watch him play.
- [03:11]
A
So, yeah, some of that stuff just sticks in your brain.
- [03:14]
D
I mean, you've got memories that stick better than, say, maybe your children's birthday.
- [03:19]
A
Oh, yeah, that's. And my wife says, why do you remember that and not anything else other important? I don't know. First in. Got in there first. So let's jump in. These are. These are fun guys, because these are questions from listeners that. That came up to our team and. And gave them to them. So I'm going to start with one, and they're all over the board. The first one is what is some advice to a small family farm that wants to grow their herd?
- [03:45]
D
Well, there's a number of ways to look at it. One is decide what you want to produce. Are you producing weaned calves? Are you trying to, you know, aim for a freeze your beef market, something like that. And then, you know, really develop your local expertise. Get to. You're gonna need a lot of help over time. And so your veterinarian is a good place to start. Your extension agent, other people, you're gonna need a lot of ideas and a lot of people to bounce ideas off of, including other cattlemen. So develop your local sources of expertise.
- [04:15]
B
Yeah, I think, you know, there's. Cattle are really expensive right now, and you don't necessarily need to go out and buy land and buy cattle. Or maybe you don't even need to rent land. Maybe. Or maybe you partner with somebody, maybe in the area somebody's looking to retire, somebody's looking to get out. Maybe you can do some kind of cost share. Maybe there's just more than one model, I guess. And so I would say think about, you know, depending on what your resources are, your Capital, et cetera. Is there a way to look at a different model to maybe get in
- [04:48]
D
that way again, that relies on having some local contact. You gotta know the people and what people are doing. This is a relationship business.
- [04:56]
C
I think you say small family farm, so I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that at the end of the day, you're really raising kids here, not cows. And so whatever you do, whether you go out and lease land, whether you go buy more land, keep that in mind. That at the end of the day, you're trying to raise kids and teach them how to work and teach them how to appreciate the connection that we have as a society to the land. And if you do that, regardless of whether, you know you end up having 10 cows or 100 cows, you will be successful.
- [05:32]
A
Yeah, and I agree with everything you guys have said. I think patience is key on this. And the cow calf business is a long term game. So you need to be looking three, four, five years down the road at minimum as you start to grow. And you can grow slowly over time and take into account where we are in the market. Speaking of the market, that leads into the next question. Dustin, this one did not have your name on it, but I think it's directed at you. What are the expected cattle prices the next few years? So it's an easy softball question. Just tell us what the prices of cattle will be in the next couple years.
- [06:08]
B
Well, I think if you know you've got calves to sell, you're going to be in maybe some good shape. Right? I don't know that we're going to see prices come down anytime soon because, I mean, are we. I'm not even sure. Have we just now bottomed out and we're starting to rebuild inventory?
- [06:29]
A
The cow inventory is as low as it's been in a long time. I heard something the other day since
- [06:33]
B
the 40s, but have we bottomed out? Are we still, I mean, we're right
- [06:37]
D
at that maybe turning point, starting to save some heifers. So it's, it's not, we're not building fast anyway.
- [06:44]
B
And if we are building, I'm not sure we're going to build as fast as we have maybe some of the more past cattle cycles. And so that's why I think prices might be higher for maybe they won't come down quite as fast as they have in past cattle cycles. So to the listener, yeah, I think you're, if you've got something to sell, you're going to be pretty happy.
- [07:06]
A
You've got a few, you've got a few years probably before that starts to turn. Absolutely. And we don't know exactly what those prices are going to be, but that's a double edged sword. Kind of following the last question of do you want to expand now or not? And you probably need to do some math on that.
- [07:23]
C
Would it be fair, Dustin, to say that really the thing driving prices isn't so much supply right now as it is demand?
- [07:29]
B
I'd say it's a combination of both. But for sure demand is definitely coming because we, I mean demand's still really, really strong right now. And then I think a couple weeks ago we had somebody come on talk about the G1, GLP1 and there was some research not that long ago that came out saying, you know, people are who take this tend to eat more protein which is again a benefit of beef and other protein sources. But yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Demand has been really strong and I
- [08:05]
C
would say is the more elastic of the two. Currently it doesn't seem like there's a lot of ability for supply to change quickly in the short term. Whereas demand could stay constant, could stay fairly strong and if it does, great. But demand could also crater pretty quickly if something for animal disease, new dietary fad came out. Something like.
- [08:27]
B
Correct. I mean supply right now it's very inelastic. Meaning you can't produce more beef overnight. Right. Because it's, there's a long biological process. Yeah, we can keep cows wrong. We keep calves on feed a little longer, put a little more weight so we can increase a little bit. But, but realistically we can't change how much beef is produced overnight. But then there's also imports and exports. We can talk about trade and you know, and you know, we've talked about earlier before the podcast that maybe we're importing a little more but then we can start talking about specific cuts. Right. What do we import versus what do we export? And that dynamic as well. But for sure demand is a big driver.
- [09:10]
A
Yeah, I think that'd be interesting to follow up on that import conversation because it does change. But in base your answer to the question is probably not. Huge changes the next couple years and those changes in prices we expect without some external shock to be relatively slow over time. Although it could change. Next one's kind of an insider question and was directed specifically at Dr. Larson by name. You use dry erase markers a lot in many of your classes. Which is your favorite color?
- [09:44]
D
Oh, that's easy. So purple. I try to use purple. As my highlight color and black as kind of my base color. But I like a nice combination of colors.
- [09:55]
A
And yeah, speaking of that, the follow up was. And how many markers do you typically carry with you all the time?
- [10:02]
D
About 15 or 20. So you need a lot of markers.
- [10:06]
B
So I too also use lots of markers in class because when I'm graphing or writing equations, you gotta have different colors when we're shifting supply curves, demand curves or equations.
- [10:15]
D
When I was in college I had that four colored pen. Oh, that was awesome. You just whip along as you're writing.
- [10:20]
A
Somebody eventually invented the six color pen.
- [10:22]
D
I know, I think that's a little bit going out. You're just going crazy then.
- [10:26]
A
I wish that this was video version so they could see you and Dustin's bandoliers with the markers, with all the markers on them. It's just perfect.
- [10:35]
B
My base is also black and then I like to use purple as kind of my highlight.
- [10:39]
D
Yeah, there you go.
- [10:40]
A
Okay, a little more serious animal health question here. The next one is what's your opinion on implanting and or vaccinating a day old calf?
- [10:57]
D
You know, this is one that's interesting. I was taught, when I was taught immunology and vaccinology that a young neonate is not a particularly good candidate for vaccines. And some of the data would support that. And then of course I had my own children and they poke them like three times in their first day of life.
- [11:13]
A
And so is but different immune type development, different immune system.
- [11:18]
D
They're mammals.
- [11:20]
A
They are mammals.
- [11:21]
D
And then there's actually some research that I've seen over the years that again kind of that an implant at birth, you know, a growth implant isn't all that beneficial. You start really seeing some benefits if you delay that first implant. If you're going to use a suckling calf implant more, more like at 2 months of age or so. So I'm not a, there's not a lot of vaccines. I'm really anxious to get into a newborn calf and I'd probably delay the implant until they're a little bit older. So I think some, the reason that people do like that is I'm handling the calf or at least I have the opportunity to depending on the attitude of the dam. But in general I prefer to delay some of those activities until the calf's a little bit older.
- [12:06]
C
Todd, how much time have we got?
- [12:08]
D
Brad, this is a short question.
- [12:11]
C
Oh my gosh. I have gone the rounds so many different ways that you can vaccinate calves at birth with intranasals versus clostridial vaccines given in the brisket versus even, even giving some oral vaccines at birth. And I do believe that they can mount an immune response to some of those vaccines. It doesn't always show up in the presence in the form of antibodies. It's hard to measure antibody levels. One of the things that we, that make cattle maybe a little different than humans as far as vaccines go, is that the passive transfer dynamics. And if we have a calf that's getting colostrum, which is probably the most important thing immunologically you can do for a calf is make sure they get high quality colostrum and get lots of it and get it early. But how that colostrum interferes with vaccine is a major component of this whole equation. Taking a step back from that, that's looking down at the cellular level. Can we get an immune response to these vaccines at birth, yes or no? I would say the answer is probably yes. Maybe doesn't always show up in the form of a humoral response. Maybe sometimes the only thing we get is a more robust cellular immunity which means that when we give another vaccine two months later, maybe they respond better to that follow up vaccine.
- [13:36]
A
There's some specific pathogen dependency and some route of administration dependencies that are embedded in that. So it's complex nuanced answer to that's right, that's right.
- [13:47]
C
And you could get into all kinds of rabbit holes here. Let me take a step back and go up a little bit higher view on this problem. Why am I giving vaccines to calves at birth? What is prompting me to feel like I need to give all of these vaccines to this calf on day one? And the answer almost invariably is because I have a lot of calf disease, because I have a lot of calves getting scours or I have a lot of calves getting respiratory disease when they shouldn't be. And that is a systems problem, not a vaccine problem. And if I feel like I am giving too many vaccines at, or if I feel the need to give a lot of vaccines at birth, I think I need to take a step back and look at the overall system and say what is it about the way I'm calving these animals out that is creating the dynamics for disease transmission and for disease development? Because what I might be doing with that vaccine is actually just creating a fix that backfires. If I can use that systems terminology. We apply some fix in the short term to try and alleviate a pain point that we are feeling. And all that really does is it enables us to continue living in the cycle of transmission and disease that got us here in the first place. We kick the can down the road and when the disease, when the pendulum swings back, it's worse than it was when we began. So that's, that's a very short answer to a long complex problem that takes honestly a lot of discussion with your veterinarian, a lot of thinking about the way that animals are processed, the way that they move through your system and thinking about the way that disease is actually transmitted between animals. Those all have to be part of the discussion. It's not an answer that I can give to, that applies to everyone. It's going to be an individualized, tailored response. But short answer, yes, you can give vaccines to calves at birth. Some of those vaccines might even do something immunologically from a system standpoint. I almost always feel like you're going to be creating a quick fix that doesn't address the underlying problem and that's where you should focus your energy.
- [15:52]
A
Yeah. And two, two components there, the vaccines and the implants. And on the vaccines, one of your take homes is look at why we thought about making this decision and maybe back up and figure out because context dependent there are reasons that if you need to give the vaccine there may be other fixes I want to deploy besides the vaccine. Two on the implants. As Bob said, there may be more opportune times to give that implant when that calf is ready to grow.
- [16:25]
C
Agreed. And the other thing to think about here too, and I'm going to tie this back to the original question about the small family farm that wants to expand. Sometimes the reason why we have these diseases because we start creating animal densities that, that aren't well suited for the environment that we have. We have too many animals in one area and we need to think about what is the optimum animal density the animal and optimum animal concentration on the land and facilities that we have that can be a big part of this.
- [16:58]
A
Yep, absolutely. So great answer to that question. Next. Next question is I'm a high school senior. I want to be involved in the cattle industry. Uncertain of what that's going to look like in terms of career, but what college class classes would you recommend that I take? Dustin's going to say ag econ. Well, yeah, I could see that coming.
- [17:19]
D
You know, here's a question that I have is because there's kind of two thoughts of building one's skill set. One is to lean into the things you're good at doing and I think there's real value at that. So where are your interests? What are your passions? Is it that numbers and spreadsheets and those types of things are your passions? Well, kind of lean into that. If it's on the forage side or the animal side or the crop side, kind of lean into things that are interesting to you and gain additional skills there. So that, that's one school of thought is lean into your strengths. And I, I tend to agree with that because I think a lot of times we have some innate abilities in areas and it's kind of wise to develop those to their fullest. But then the other kind of opposite side is in agriculture, you're going to have to have some good basic business economics skill sets. You're going to have to have some good basic animal husbandry skill sets. You're going to have to have some good crops or forage management skill sets. So I think some broad knowledge is also essential. So if I was talking to a young person in high school or college, it's develop a broad understanding of agriculture, you know, all the inputs, you know, so soil, water, money, you know, everything that goes into agriculture. And then also lean into what is most interesting to you because that tends to be where you'll really thrive. So it's a little bit of a both.
- [18:49]
A
Dustin.
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B
You know, I guess I would say you probably want to go to K State. Yeah, no, I would. You know, I say every kid, every student should have a introduction to micro macroeconomics. They understand the economy works. But once you get past that, then yeah, there's going to be classes over in agronomy and I don't know enough about the agronomy department or animal science. But you know, from an agom perspective, you know, maybe some like a basic farm management type course, understand budgets, understand records, maybe a kind of a marketing class, like if, like a futures markets, understand the markets, how they work, a basic understanding. There would be another good class, maybe a kind of a data analysis class. So if you've got data and you can analyze and try to help, because those, those classes also help beyond just raising cattle. I mean, I think they help with other parts of their lives. Those are just, I guess maybe three kind of introductory classes.
- [19:47]
A
Todd.
- [19:48]
C
So I've taken a pretty broad array of classes. I would say, like I have a bachelor's degree in engineering. I went to veterinary school. I went and did a master's degree at Mississippi State in epidemiology. In all of those classes, all of that coursework, the most useful class I ever took was ag finance, understanding balance sheets, profit and Loss statements, corporate structures, net present value, partial budgets. That was the most useful class I ever took. And I would strongly recommend an ag finance class to anybody interested in agriculture.
- [20:22]
B
So we got a second ag Econ in K State.
- [20:26]
C
I can't argue with that, honestly.
- [20:28]
A
I think the other thing to consider, and I'll throw in the broad array I think is good because Bob, just as you said, well, lean into what you like or what you're good at. In many cases, coming out of high school, at least with our kids, you don't know what you're good at or what you like. So if you take a numbers spreadsheet, data type class and then you take a biology production type class, you'll start to figure out pretty quickly which of those areas is my strength, what do I care about? And having that broad variety, that's the beauty of going to college, is take stuff that you may not want to take because you may learn something there that is useful or you find a passion. So last, last question I've got is from a student that's in college planning to apply to veterinary school. And their question is specifically on when you apply to veterinary school, you have to write several essays. What are you looking for when you review those essays on a veterinary school application?
- [21:31]
D
So I am looking for evidence of thought and understanding. You know, so I want them to understand life. I want them to understand how you generate value for your community, how specifically veterinarians fit in society as far as providing some services that society wants. I want them to show evidence of really thinking that through. And that usually means a little bit deeper than just simple platitudes of I like animals and things like that is. So one of the things that I tell the students is, remember who's going to be reading these essays. They're older people that are already veterinarians. You're not talking to your peer. You're not telling your peers why you want to go to vet school. You're telling already veterinarians why you want to go to vet school. So I want to read something that sounds like somebody that could be my peer very soon. So it's about really understanding your audience and the reason for essays is to understand their thought process.
- [22:37]
C
I would concur largely with what Bob said. There's no one thing I'm looking for. I'm looking for evidence that you know how to think critically, that you can consider an issue and evaluate it and have some type of a critical response. When I applied to vet school, we had to do extemporaneous essays the day of. And maybe that'll come back someday. I don't know. I think in this age of AI generated essay responses, that might be something that we have to consider, but just, we just want to know that you can think critically, that you can evaluate something from all angles and come up with your own conclusions.
- [23:16]
A
Yeah, and I think I would echo what you guys said. An understanding of the profession to me is paramount.
- [23:23]
D
And.
- [23:23]
A
And if you have some idea of what you're getting into when applying to veterinary school, the caveat I would throw out is it is challenging if there are typographical errors, grammatical errors that change the meaning of sentence, which also tells me probably I didn't put the time into proofreading it or have somebody else proofread it. So make sure that those. And every year I see some of those and sometimes they're dramatic. And it's a challenge to try to get the meaning from words that are presented in a, in an improper fashion. So appreciate you guys answers to those questions and appreciate those of you that stopped by our BCI crew and visited with them and gave them these questions. If you have further questions for us or something you'd like us to talk about on a future episode, you can send us an email@bcisu.edu.