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- [00:06]
A
Hi. Welcome to BCI Cattle Town. I'm Brad White. Happy to have you with us. Happy to have our crew here in the studio. Morning, Bob.
- [00:11]
B
Good morning, guys.
- [00:12]
A
Todd. Good morning, Philip.
- [00:14]
C
Hello, everybody.
- [00:15]
A
And our special guest today is Abby Hidari. And we're glad to have you with us. Good morning, Abby.
- [00:21]
D
Good morning, everyone.
- [00:23]
A
So, Abby, tell us a little bit about yourself.
- [00:26]
D
I live in the Kansas City metro area. Born and raised in Kansas, went to Bueller High School. Yay, Bueller. I am a registered dietitian. I have been a Dietitian for over 20 years, and I am also the director of nutrition for the Kansas Beef Council.
- [00:41]
B
Yes.
- [00:41]
A
And we wanted to have you on because we're going to talk nutrition today.
- [00:45]
B
It's not just Lancaster, and it's not
- [00:47]
A
just Lancaster talking about cattle nutrition because we're going to learn a little bit. And we actually had several questions. Questions relative to GLP1s that people use for weight loss and what's the impact on protein requirements for people? How does that impact the beef industry? And then there were several other questions relative to that. Also, the beef dietary guidelines have changed a little bit at a national level, and we wanted to visit with Abby about those implications and some of the other nutritional aspects of beef. So we wanted to get into that, and we figured, why not get an expert on. And Abby's certainly our expert here in Kansas and beyond. So she does lectures on this frequently. So we wanted to get her opinions on some of these topics. Before we get into those, I wanted to remind you, if you have a listener question, we sure appreciate you sending those in. And you can send them to us@bcisu.edu or you can reach out to us on Facebook or X or any other social media platforms. If you just Google Beef Cattle Institute, you'll find us and send us those questions. Guys, before we get into today's topics, I did want to ask you a question, and I was going to. So my initial question, I think, was easy, and it was going to be on the nutritional value of my common breakfast foods and whether I should be eating more nutty bars or more Kit Kats, but I think that's too easy because the nutty bars already have protein.
- [02:11]
B
Oh, absolutely.
- [02:11]
A
With the peanut butter. So that's. I went with the Nutty Bar this morning, But I did want to ask you. Here's your question.
- [02:19]
B
Abby's having a.
- [02:24]
D
Well, your decision. Your decision has some general sense.
- [02:28]
A
See, I'm going to take that as a glowing endorsement. My breakfast choices. Okay, so here's your question. For today, I would like to know which of the following consumes the most grams of protein per pound on their recommended diet. Your four choices are dairy cow, human bodybuilder, feedlot steer, or NFL lineman.
- [03:00]
B
Oh, wow.
- [03:02]
A
So which. And and bonus points if you can tell me the grams of protein per pound. Because. Because they're different body weights.
- [03:09]
B
Yeah, right. Although alignment and a dairy cow are getting close.
- [03:15]
A
I'd be in the same range. But we're gonna go grams per pound of body weight, recommended protein consumption, and you get to go. And Bob, all I want you to do is say, which one of those do you think is going to be the highest?
- [03:27]
B
I'm going to go dairy cow. I mean, she's making milk and that's a high protein food.
- [03:31]
A
Okay, Philip.
- [03:33]
C
I'll say the bodybuilder, I think he's consuming a lot of protein per pound of body weight just to try to maintain lean mass. So like 2 grams per pound or something like that? Probably, or maybe even a little bit more.
- [03:50]
A
Okay. And so. And Todd, the feedlot steer is making brand new muscle too. Just like the bodybuilder.
- [03:57]
E
No, the dairy cow. High producing dairy cows producing upwards of 120 pounds of milk per day. And if that milk is only even 2 or 3% protein, I mean you're talking about 1% would be a pound. A pound. Well, a pound point two. So I mean, you're looking at easily 3 to 4 pounds of protein just in the milk that cat dairy cow is producing. So I mean, NFL lineman and a bodybuilder, could they eat three or four pounds of protein in a day? Possibly.
- [04:29]
C
That's a lot. Her body weight per pound of pound of body weight. So now you got divide that by that cow, so you got 1500 grams. If she's got 3 pounds, 1500 grams, roughly divide that by a 1500 pound dairy. She's only at 1 gram per pound.
- [04:44]
B
Yeah, but that's just her milk. Now she's also got us. So. All right.
- [04:47]
A
So. All right, Abby.
- [04:48]
E
I'm going to dairy cow.
- [04:49]
B
All right.
- [04:50]
D
I cannot speak to ruminant animal nutrition at all. And the dietetics department, we do not do any type of ruminant animal nutrition, but I would say that the lineman probably is burning more calories per day than a bodybuilder. Their amount of actual exertion is probably making their protein units higher than a bodybuilder.
- [05:15]
A
Okay, excellent.
- [05:16]
B
All right, bring it on.
- [05:17]
A
Good job. So the rankings that I have are in terms of grams protein per pound of body weight. Dairy cow was top, bodybuilder was second, feedlot steer was third and NFL lineman was fourth. But they were all pretty, pretty darn close. For the dairy cow, 2.7 grams of protein per pound of body weight. For the bodybuilder was 1.6 grams protein per pound of body weight. The feedlot steer was 1.1 and the NFL lineman was 0.8. So all in the, all in the range. Pretty interesting. Now in terms of total protein intake, the dairy cow was eating 4,000 grams of protein a day.
- [06:02]
B
There you go.
- [06:02]
A
So maybe that's she's a protein consuming machine, which was more than all the other three added together. So interesting. And Philip's going to double check my math. He was getting out his phone, which I appreciate. Double check my math. So Abby, tell me a little bit about we're going to jump into these GLP ones and you hear a lot about them in the news. People talk about them. You hear about people taking them for weight loss. And I'm going to start out with why are these getting so much attention right now and what are some of the key aspects that we should know about those GLP1s?
- [06:41]
D
So I would say in general, the reason people are talking about them right now is because we're seeing more of the medications being used than that we have before. Currently, about 12% of the US population reports that they're taking a GLP1 receptor agonist medication. And there is a range of those medications and we're going to see a lot more of those types of medications coming out that have different aspects to them in the next two to five years probably. In addition, there was a recent Omada Health survey of primary care physicians that found that 30% of those physicians reported patients were asking for the medications. And then compared to other weight loss approaches, not including things like bariatric surgery, bariatric surgery still has the highest outcomes, but with in comparison to patients that are just following diet and exercise alone, we see individuals that are using these medications, they actually are having a little over twice the percentage of body weight loss after one year compared to an individual who is just trying to, you know, lose weight with diet and exercise alone. So I think because of all of these things, you know, physicians are prescribing the medications, more, more medications are coming out and more people are talking about
- [08:01]
A
them as these medications are being used. Is the actual effect that it changes how the body is metabolizing food, or is the effect that it causes decreased appetite, decreased consumption, or is it a little of both? How, how do they work?
- [08:18]
D
Medications work in several different ways. An oversimplified explanation of GLP1s is that they're a class of medications that are going to mimic a hormone that our body naturally produces and then that helps regulate appetite and blood sugar. GLP1 stands for glucagon, like peptide 1. So glucagon, like peptide 1 is the hormone that it is mimicking. And then because of that, it's, it works to slowly allow an individual to not have food, like leaving their stomach as quickly. So because food actually kind of sits in their stomach a little longer, it allows more signaling to happen to the brain, telling the brain that I am full. So these medications typically help to reduce what most people are describing or what you see on a lot of, you know, social channels. As far as the word food noise, they don't feel hungry as often, they don't think about food as frequently. And that's something that physiologically is constantly happening to individuals that have the disease state of obesity. They constantly have this food noise versus an individual who doesn't have a disease state of obesity. They don't have that. They aren't thinking about food. They, it's not something that is just always on their mind. So then as a result of an individual not having that in their mind all the time, they tend to eat smaller portions. You know, they're not feeling as hungry, so they eat smaller portions. And then that of course ends up leading to weight loss.
- [09:55]
A
And the weight loss, is it, are we losing just fat or is there some muscle loss that occurs with this as well? And what are, what are the implications there?
- [10:06]
D
So I mean, this is going to be a concern with rapid weight loss in any instance, whether an individual is doing it through diet and exercise or if they were on a vacation. But when somebody experiences rapid weight loss, they can lose lean muscle along with their body fat. So that is why your healthcare professional team is going to often really focus on emphasizing, I would say two things, and that's step staying physically active, especially doing that weight bearing exercises. So you know, exercises where you're putting weight on your body, whether it is walking or running or doing actual weight lifting. Non weight bearing would be things like biking or swimming, which are amazing, wonderful activities, but they're not weight bearing as much. So that physical activity is going to help maintain muscle while you're losing that body fat, but then also getting enough protein in your diet for an individual who is losing weight rapidly. We want to maintain that lean muscle mass. And so that leads to needing adequate Protein in order to support that weight, that muscle, and to be able to not lose any additional muscle while you're losing the body fat? Because if you do lose a lot of muscle, then that messes with your metabolic health and that's not good for the long run.
- [11:32]
C
So, Abby, so I'm going to relate this to beef cows. So when we are talking about obese beef cows and we're losing, we want to lose some body condition, the amount of fat in each pound will be a higher proportion of each pound that they lose. But as they get closer to that ideal weight, then that the amount of muscle or the amount of protein that they lose beginning starts to increase too. So does it, does it matter, like where a person is at in that range as far as the amount of muscle mass they're losing? Like when we take losing muscle mass, like how much are we talking about somebody losing when they're taking GLP1 medications?
- [12:15]
D
I don't know that number. But for general weight loss, we do see that individuals can lose muscle. And then once they've lost that muscle and they get to their maintenance weight, they're wanting to maybe maintain by titrating that medication to a lower dose, or if they weren't doing a medication, they just lost the weight, they're wanting to maybe back off of the calorie restriction that they were on a little bit. We want to make sure that that muscle is still there so that their metabolism is still rolling so that they're not just gaining back body fat.
- [12:50]
C
Yeah, because.
- [12:51]
B
Yeah.
- [12:52]
C
So you think about losing muscle mass. I mean, muscle mass and just protein mass in general has a much higher maintenance requirement than fat tissue. And so you maintaining a higher amount of muscle mass. If you're losing muscle mass, it's going to be easier to regain weight because you're going to be consuming more calories above maintenance when if you've lost that, some of that, a lot of that muscle mass.
- [13:21]
B
So one of my questions is if this, these drugs mostly suppress appetite, is it that the person's protein requirement, you know, grams per day goes up or just that they need the same grams per day, but now they're eating less,
- [13:35]
D
they are going to need the same amount of grams per day as anyone who is following a weight loss regimen. So it doesn't mean that an individual taking this medication needs more protein per day compared to an individual who is losing weight with diet and lifestyle alone. Their protein needs are going to be high because they want to maintain that muscle mass, but they want to make sure that they're maintaining a protein amount even when they have lost the weight. That's going to help them not gain back body fat, if that makes sense.
- [14:09]
C
Yeah.
- [14:10]
B
So, and again, kind of one of the reasons we were interested is does beef fit that pretty well? It seems like it should, but you're the dietitian.
- [14:19]
D
Yeah, so. Well, beef is a great option for individuals who are trying to lose weight and it always has been. We have decades of research that focuses on the importance of high quality animal based proteins like beef for weight loss. Because when you have a high quality protein, it has all of the nine essential amino acids that your body does not create on its own. And those amino acids, particularly one called leucine, triggers muscle protein synthesis. I always think of it as if you get enough leucine in a meal, it's the key that turns on that muscle protein synthesis. And while you can have incomplete proteins combining to give you enough leucine throughout the day, you might have missed out on opportunities during the day to have more times when that muscle protein synthesis was turned on. So I like to get enough protein, high quality animal based protein at meals, hopefully three times a day, in order to turn on muscle protein synthesis more often. And so when you can get a high quality protein like beef, you know, a three ounce cook serving is all that you need in order to get enough of those amino acids to turn on that muscle protein synthesis. A three ounce cooked portion is going to give you 25 grams of protein in roughly 170 calories. So the biggest thing when it comes to beef is the nutrient density. When individuals are eating less food overall, every bite counts when intake's going down. The goal is to make sure that we're choosing foods that are delivering a lot of nutrition in a smaller amount of food or more specifically in a smaller amount of calories. And beef definitely can fit the bill for that because we're getting a lot of vitamins and minerals in just a one serving of beef. That three ounce cooked portion, which is just the size of a deck of cards or the size of a woman's palm, gives you over 10% of 10 essential nutrients that your body can't create. So we need to get that from our, our protein sources.
- [16:20]
A
Excellent. Thanks, Abby. Is there, is there anything, as we wrap up this part on the GLP1, is there anything else we need to know that we maybe didn't discuss?
- [16:27]
D
I would say in general, some of the things that individuals maybe need to know about the conversation with GLP1s is just that they're they're not a magic fix. In reality, they're a tool that can definitely support weight management, but they do not cure obesity. They can control the symptoms of obesity, but it does not mean obesity goes away. So a helpful way I would think about it is similar to other chronic conditions and how we manage other chronic conditions in a healthcare team. So, for example, a lot of individuals might be taking a medication that controls their high blood pressure. That medication can help bring their blood pressure to a healthy range, but it doesn't mean that the underlying condition just disappears. The individual typically is going to continue taking that medication and work with their health care team to manage it alongside with healthy lifestyle habits, hopefully. So the same thing happens with a weight loss medication. These medications can help control appetite, they can support your weight loss, but they're usually part of a long term management plan. You would definitely need to work with your health care team to determine the appropriate dosing over time. And that typically should be including what a maintenance dose may look like. Weight loss medications in addition to nutrition, physical activity, overall lifestyle. That's why balanced meals and adequate protein and nutrient dense foods like beef are essential for that long term success. Because we need to, hopefully once we get to that maintenance dose, maybe it can be a lower dose, potentially maybe it's a dose that doesn't have to be as high in order to maintain because the individual has adopted healthy eating habits. For an individual who completely disappeared, decides to not adopt healthy eating habits, does not increase their protein, does not get regular protein intake, it's going to be extremely hard for them to get to a maintenance level where that medication can be titrated to the lowest dose possible. They might have to stay on that really high dose. Again, you would have to. Every individual needs to talk with their healthcare team to determine what is best for them. But those healthy habits have to be in place too, whether you're on a medication or not.
- [18:49]
A
Yeah, absolutely. Part of a holistic approach and I appreciate you sharing on that. We've got just a couple minutes remaining and maybe just briefly tell us. We've heard there's changes in the dietary guidelines and the role of beef may be shifting a little bit. So maybe give us just a brief synopsis of what those changes are.
- [19:07]
D
Yeah, I think with the new dietary guideline updates, we are seeing the outcomes of decades of high quality research coming into play. So when it comes to human nutrition studies, the vast majority of our research is always going to be from epidemiological or observational studies. Dr. Lancaster can probably say that the Same thing is common for ruminant animal studies, because that type of research is, it's cheaper to get, it's, it's not as expensive, you can get a very large data pool. But the thing that those observational studies show us is just a hypothesis or a maybe association between two things. It does not show causation. And so we take the hypothesis that we get from observational studies and we invest in beef Chekhov funded research to do randomized control trials. And these types of trials are considered the gold standard when it comes to human nutrition research because they can identify cause and effect. And we see with all of these randomized control trials and meta analysis of randomized controlled trials on beef intake that we are able to consume beef within a healthy and balanced diet. And we are seeing great outcomes with heart health metrics when it comes to reducing ldl, which is our lousy cholesterol level, or reducing total cholesterol, reducing blood pressure. It is just as common for beef as it is for other animal based proteins or plant based proteins. As long as beef is consumed within a healthy and balanced diet, you know what you're consuming with that. Beef is much more the topic of conversation than the protein option that you're choosing. Especially when it's beef. Because we cook beef and typically a healthy way, we don't need a slather it with any cream based or cheese based sauces because it tastes delicious just on its own.
- [21:03]
B
I gotta agree with that. I have nothing to add to that. I'm picturing a steak right now or even a burger.
- [21:11]
A
Well, absolutely. And I think your comments and I think are really good relative to observational trials versus randomized control trials. And a lot of times in animal nutrition we have the advantage that we can do a lot of randomized controlled trials and that's how a lot of our hypothesis testing is done.
- [21:28]
B
Done.
- [21:29]
A
Is does this ingredient help or does this ingredient help? Would you agree with that?
- [21:33]
D
See, but that's not fair because you have very compliant.
- [21:36]
B
We have compliant patients.
- [21:39]
A
Well, not only do we have compliant patients, but we can control the heterogeneity among them, so. Or the heterogeneity among them. Because just at the start of our podcast we talked about the difference in, in lactating dairy cows, but even on our beef cow trials, you'll look at trials that may be with lactating cows or, or growing cows or cows that are in a state of pregnancy and we get them all at the same state so that they're very similar, so that we can make Some of those comparisons?
- [22:09]
E
Well, I had one question on that because I get, I see a lot of things online or hear people talk about the benefits of grass fed versus grain fed beef. And so I just wanted to get your opinions on that. Is there a substantial difference in the health benefits that you derive from eating grass finished versus grain finished beef as part of this healthy diet?
- [22:32]
D
So when it comes to the overall largest differences between grass and grain finish, your grass finished beef is going to be lower in total fat, it's going to be lower in monounsaturated fat, and it's going to be higher in omega 3s in comparison to grain finished beef or conventionally raised beef. And that's due to that last three to four months of that animal's life cycle where they are fed a very high density, nutritionally dense diet. The grain finished animals are so that they're able to put on more intramuscular fat, which we also call marbling. And that marbling, though from a nutrition, human nutrition standpoint, we actually know has a higher proportion of monounsaturated fat. So while the animal whose grass finish has less total fat, they have less proportion of monounsaturated fat. So the type of fat that is in that grain finished animal because of that extra marbling that's typically occurring, I'm not concerned about as a dietitian because that's a heart healthy fat. It's a fat that we don't really need to limit. It's the same type of fat you'd find in olive oil or avocados. But we want to make sure that we're eating beef within a healthy recommended portion size and making sure that the portion size of whatever protein you're eating is within your dietary goals. We over consume any particular food, then we're not going to stay within the calorie goals that we need to reach our health goals. So we don't want to over consume any one food, but we want to get enough protein foods to maintain that muscle mass because it can really help with vitality. It can help with that overall well being for a lot of individuals if we can increase that protein. And we saw that with the dietary guidelines they had the generalized 1.2 to 1.6, you know, grams per kilogram per day, that amount. Definitely work with your registered dietitian. Find a registered dietitian for yourself. They are the nutrition experts. That is what we do. We have time to spend, spend with patients going over their individual nutrition needs. So when physicians refer to that dietitian, we can determine exactly how many grams of protein that individual needs, because it could be lower, it could be higher depending on the individual and depending on their past medical history. But that's a good general range. It is the RDA that we used to have or that we still have. The rda, it's if you. I love food anthropology and food history, but it was actually established back in 1942, I believe, because we were seeing so much nutrition deficiencies with World War II and the draft. And so the RDA was established to determine, okay, if our country needed to ration out food for our population, what is the amount that we need to prevent deficiency? And that's what the RDA establishes. That 0.8 grams per kilogram that everybody always talks about and throws out all the time. It's simply meant to prevent deficiency. Now, as a dietitian, I've never met with a patient that only wanted to prevent deficiency. They want like, optimal levels. They want to make sure that they're getting everything that they need to have that vitality, have that well being to do all the things that they want to do, not just prevent deficiency. So we do need a little bit more protein is definitely beneficial.
- [26:02]
A
Absolutely. Thanks. Thanks, Abby. And I appreciate that input. That's a good place to kind of conclude on that. Everybody wants their optimal. And if you can find a dietitian or you can't just assume those baseline requirements apply to everyone. And this has been a great discussion. We appreciate you sharing some time with us this morning. And if you have questions, comments, things you'd like us to talk about, you can send us an email@bcisu.edu.